Cleary... Some champs needed only VU's because their kit is more healthy or not bad in the game.. I don' t support riot's decision on creating only VGU's now and not VU's while they do GU's on other champs too. Example is 
, 
, 
and 
... they don't need a VGU because they're in a good shape and that will alienate some mains but clearly their models are outdated and their kit is perfectly nice.
RiotReav373 votesI think you are highlighting why we stopped doing VUs. They really weren't noticed much or appreciated.
2 of the champions on your list already got VUs not that long ago.......
Blood Magicks28 votesHow did you conclude they were not noticed or appreciated? I for one fainted with joy when Karthus got a new model, concept, voice and killer Pentakill lines:
"Death is blacker than the blackest black... times infinity."
There are multiple balanced champions that have a killer concept which wasn't executed that well on their release. Some of them are entry level and IMO will lose accessibility if their VU is also a VGU ( pretty much all of my friends started with 
and I think she's a great example.)
To your credit OP doesn't seem to have noticed and already got model updates.
Valor Bot7 votesRiot surveys multiple regions to gather feedback on their VUs. Oftentimes the VUs simply go unnoticed or unappreciated, whereas VGUs garner a lot more excitement and attention from the playerbase, likely because they involve significant gameplay changes alongside more drastic visual/thematic upgrades.
I totally understand the desire for VUs, but since they do dip into team resources that would otherwise go towards full VGUs, I'd honestly much rather they stick to just doing those, which not only give champions new models, textures, and animations, but also entirely new rigs and silhouettes, as well as a stronger theme/fantasy to go alongside their gameplay changes.
Blood Magicks10 votesThis is probably because a higher poly model really isn't that big a deal. No wonder some go unappreciated - on low specs the difference isn't easy to tell.
What we are begging for here is what you mentioned in your latter paragraph - a solid concept being reinvented and brought to life. I really think Riot shot themselves in the foot by giving LeBlanc a GU only while refusing to revisit her concept, despite her being so vital to the lore. Under the current system we either never get to see the Matron in her full glory or pray day and night for her to break so that Riot looks at her again.
Garentheon9 votesKass and MF didn't get the full art treatment (vo, recall, etc)
Valor Bot4 votesYeah, their visuals/thematic weren't pushed very far either -- MF for example still has the same clothing and silhouette from before the VU, whereas a full realization of her theme would probably land her closer to Captain Fortune visually while upgrading her overall shape and animations. Hopefully they'll go back and revisit her/Kass once the more problematic champs are out of the way.
Kloqdq110 votesThe problem wasn't they go unnoticed, it was just that they were small fries and didn't change a whole lot. A good VU and probably the best to this day was Karthus. It really brought the character to life. Kass and MF on the other hand gave an update but didn't really feel like an VU. More like, here is a modern model. Ryze's VU (sort of before his last rework) wasn't all that impressive because he still looked like a shitty blue smurf.
WE all want VUs on the level of Karthus for champions that look stupid or silly. Caitlyn, MF, Veigar, etc. Hell Nasus was another fantastic sample of a great VU. VUs are used to really refine a character's theme when they already have a good theme and gameplay behind it.
Fisherman Fízz33 votesI feel like Twitch was a really good one too.
Kloqdq24 votesAnother good one. Like these are good examples of top notch VUs. Honestly the ones like Ali and MF are just bringing a poor model to modern standards. Like MF for example is a badass female Pirate Hunter. Yet her model makes her look like a knock-off Jessica Rabbit and she carries no really value to fulfilling her character.
As far as I know those type of VUs are really loved by everyone but the small ones with no real change are just unnoticed. And really it's just a texture update, it's not surprising people don't notice them often.
Elikain6 votesThe point Reav3 is trying to make is "why bother when this is clearly proven to not be what the majority of players want"? Miss Fortune was done really good and she didn't really need much to bring her character to life. I noticed it because she's one of my favorite Marksmen to play and of course a lot of other people did as well, considering this was during the Bilgewater event. But she quickly fell out of favor as much as Karthus did.
Karthus's VU was a more noticeable one but it made him "more popular" until people stopped caring what he got and remembered that his entire kit is the same and no problems have been solved, if he had them at the time. That's why Riot decided not to spend time doing VUs and focus on full VGUs, if they're already dedicating much resources to projects like these.
Kloqdq10 votesI still believe it can really make a character more desirable. A character like twitch was good but he was a literal potato before his VU. There is a good number of characters that may never get touched at this rate merely because they have fine kits but the character, appearance, visuals, etc are all lackluster and not to that same standard. Some of the old characters barely have a personality. Lee is a great example of this. I barely can connect to the character but his got great gameplay.
Just because a VU may not have the same effect as a VGU (this is pretty much a given due to the added element of gameplay changes. People notice gameplay more because it literally changes a character's kit where the VU just visually changes a character.) doesn't mean it's pointless to do. Sej's VU made her an actual badass besides being a Woman in a fur bikini riding a boar (Like what even?). It's not as important as Gameplay but it's not a valued approach. Riot needs to understand you can have both but one shouldn't be completely snuffed out. I'd rather see a character become a living breathing person, puke dog, land shark, space dragon, Bird King, or whatever they are, then be a 2003 meme that doesn't fit to this already awesome cast.
Killaburn1 votesbut i feel those 2 are not noticeable or its just a minor tweek :D those two have so much potential in them. why not make VU great again like the GU one and make them great by updating their splash too so that it would be notice :D look at karthus i heard someone fainted because of that and i think some people appreciate some of your VUs speacially if someone who don't want their kit to be updated :D
RiotReav323 votesKarthus is a great example of champion that should of gotten a full VGU instead of a VU, his gameplay has not aged very well at all unfortunately
Big Lincoln7 votesREEEEE leave karthus alone
Venedictos25 votesIs he really? I find him very unique and the idea of using your death (your passive) for certain strategic benefits is pretty interesting, even by today's standards. What are the problems Karthus faces, that make him a champion in need of a VGU?
ModAcademy Kayn6 votesMost champions normally do have things worth keeping in their kit, and his passive is certainly one of them, but yeah he does have a few problems.
For one, he's low range and likes getting up close, but unlike Swain or Vlad, he has zero survivability tools. This makes him heavily rely on items for durability, resulting in a behind Karthus being fodder, since he can't hide in a backline without losing half his damage.
His Ult, as cool as it may be, has some issues too. For one, you either use it before a fight, to pick up kills from other skirmishes or after you die. You can claim it's unique, but the power budget gets weird.
Since it's an Ult that can't be used at the drop of a stone, his basic abilities need to be good enough for his ult to not be 100% nessecary for the kill. At the same time, because it's situational, the Ult itself has huge power. Similar to Ryze, except Ryze's is pure Utility.
This can result in a fed Karthus spiraling harder when ahead, even more so with his high depedance on items. Overall, Karthus's kit is pretty legit, he suffers from a few design problems though. A Warwick level rework would likely be best all things considered.
Killaburn2 votesyeah thats why you should not stop making VU's again .. just like give 1 small group who do the VUs and not like the big teams who do VGUs because that will make them into a slow pacing state and we not want that .. make it like mini updates like GUs and not much anticipated ones like VGUs who are like new champs. I think were fine with that and maybe do it together with the splash updates like MF for example(considering she is the next one to receive a splash update) make tweeks to her model(VU) too to make it a win-win situation. not only the splash get recognize but her model too.
Lastly, i was heartbroken when class updates where gone because i know that VUs are entirely gone and updates like that you visited some models of champs in that class.
RiotReav312 votesWarning, this may get pretty producer-y.
You are correct, the only way to do VUs with out SIGNIFICANTLY reducing the timeline of VGUs would be to create a new VU team. That team would not be small though as it would be roughly the size of a team that makes legendary skins. This team would then have to prioritized against every thing else at Riot including other projects and teams trying to create new games.
At that point you have to weight the player value that team can deliver elsewhere Vs making VUs. Currently that would be a pretty tough sell where as the VGUs provide tremendous player value.
The 2nd point would be that Champion update is on the Core Gameplay Initiative which is a Initiative at Riot that focuses on the core gameplay so a pure VU team wouldn't really fit well with this initiatives goals.
This isn't to say we will never do VUs as there could be another initiative thats VUs would fit on and priorities can always change in the future. Each initiative is free to create there own teams and priorities so while I personally don't see VUs making sense on Core Gameplay it doesn't mean they won't get picked up by another team or maybe even Core Gameplay's priorities will change in the future.
patmax1711 votesThis is how I see the issue: We had a few visual-only updates now, I think some had very good results (Renekton, Maokai, Singed), others much less (MF, Alistar, Kassadin). The issue I see with the latter ones is that if you are forced to stick to an old rig with old animation, even the prettiest model will still feel outdated. Alistar and Kassadin look very nice... until you see them move in-game. I'd add that voiceover also plays a role in the perception of a VU, but I personally think it's has still much less impact than animation on players perception (at least on mine) Given the above, to make a good VU you need to not only remake the model and splashes, but also rig and animation, and IIRC that takes a LOAD of effort. At that point you might as well throw in a game designer and ask yourself if the champion's kit has something worth updating (it doesn't need to be a complete overhaul, most older champions can benefit from a bit of adjustment on their kit). And while you're at it, at the same time you can call someone from narrative and work on the identity of the champ through background and voiceover.
It's not that every champ that could benefit from a VU should undergo a Galio-level treatment, but rather that since working on a champs visuals takes a lot of time, you might as well have a look at the story and gameplay and bring the champion on par with the state of the art on the other two aspects too, if needed.
Does this make sense?
RiotReav39 votesThis makes a lot of sense and summarizes why our focus has shifted to VGUs
Killaburn7 votesSo what do you think about champions like Gragas who has model from 2010 that looks really ugly but his gameplay is fine. Is he doomed to get VGU once his kit will be outdated in 3 years (where honestly this game might start dying)? That feels really unfair. so why not tweek even small updates to some champs clearly not an over all package like VGUs. its not 10 champs get VGUs next year so that makes slow pacing considering you need 6 months to prepare ... i know time is the key to success but we might never know when this game might die.. so please do everything as you can to make this game livelier and fun . i hope this game doesn't die and i hope to see more content frequently as time goes by .. i am a forever fan of this game and btw i will supp your decisions because its your game and you can do whatever you want i am just a nobody who proposes. wish you luck in this game and i hope that it will forever remain as it will forever remain in my heart.peace . and is the new champ coming in 7.14?
patmax175 votesI think Gragas would benefit a lot from a narrative update along with his visuals, and every champ's kit is worth a look (who would have thought one year ago that alistar or shyvana would benefit that much from a gameplay update?).
But let me ask you: what people do you think would make VUs, if not the champ team? Making more VUs would mean taking ressources away from VGUs. This would mean giving attention to champ who are somehow fine (Gragas sees a lot of competitive play, for example) instead of getting some long-due champs up to date. If Riot had infinite ressources we'd have half the roster updated in six months. But they need to priorize, and between Gragas/Lee Sin/Caitlyn or Nunu/Akali/Evelynn I'd take the latter any day.
I'm not saying I wouldn't love to see Cait brought up to date art- and narrative wise, but I definitely see how Nunu is higher priority at the moment (and after him there's a dozen more). This might mean waiting 2-3 years for a Cait V(G?)U, but that's the pace Riot can keep if they want to deliver high quality content (and works like Kassadin, Cassiopeia, Rengar, Kog'maw and a few more have clearly shown that trying to do as much as possible as fast as possible often doesn't produce quality content that lasts long-term - and then you're investing 6 months' work fixing Cassio when you would have been better if you had scheduled a VGU from the beginning on)
It's not ideal, I definitely know that, but it's the most sensible choice at the moment. The only solution would be to hire more people to work on champ reworks, but how many teams are manageable and can consistently produce high quality content?
Asdeft2 votesin 3 years (where honestly this game might start dying)
That is a totally uncalled for and absolutely idiotic remark. This game is only getting more and more popular every year, and is still one of the most played and highest grossing games every year.
A lot of champs look outdated, yes, but you really need to understand that these VU's take resources and a lot of time and effort. Riot is prioritizing champs who need large gameplay updates first (
for example), while champs who look fine for the most part like 
or are really not that important vs the slough of champs who need gameplay attention who can get a VU tacked onto that.
NineTailedMystic4 votesBut it is really okay to leave champions, who came out anywhere between 4-7 years ago, with models that look the part when you compare them to today's champs? There's Jax, the eggplant man. Sure, his gameplay could use some minor work but nothing on a VGU scale. There's Ahri whose tails stick out from everywhere to her tailbone to her thighs. There's Udyr who has a VU for the low price of an Ultimate Skin. There's Pantheon too.
These champions, or even ones I didn't list, may have had minor VUs in the past but they're still nothing like the craftsmanship of today's champs. And people will say the same about today's champs later, assuming you keep releasing champs. ~~Which I hope you at least slow down on. A lot. ~~ Anyways, it's just that full VGUs shouldn't be required when a champs visuals just don't match the standard by a long shot.
Flemman4 votesSo no more yordle unification vu?
Krabohod1 votesWe get why you don't do VU-s. But why you stopped doing Tristana-like updates? I mean creating team that makes this kind of updates to the list that consist of Veigar, Cait and etc.
I was sad with Riot stated that there will be no VU, but it cheered me up at the same time, cause I thought we would see lot of tristana-like updates. But we have seen none. And with removal of Class updates dies the hope that someone could be visually/design updated during class updates.
Don't get me wrong: the VGU-s are awesome. I mean super awesome. But with the rate of how they have been done Cait will remain how instead of badass sheriff till 2020 or even 2021. The same situation with Veigar, I feel he will remain that cardboard monstrosity instead of black yordle till 2020 or 2021. And this really makes me, and perhaps the community sad.
Also, creating team for Tristana-updates would be in line with Core Gameplay initiative.
And I think it should be not just Tristana-update team but Design Update team. So they could also update VO. That team I feel would be wildly appreciated by community.
RiotReav33 votesHmm. We never said we wouldn't do anymore Tristana like updates. Ryze was a VGU that was kind of similar is change to Tristana.
They key here is that every champion is different. When we start a VGU we break down what should and shouldn't change and how much a Champion needs to change for there VGU to bring them up to modern standards Tristana and Ryze were both extremely iconic to League so there visuals didn't change that drastically.
As we work our way through the champions with very low quality themes, visuals or gameplay the amount we change per champion will likely also change.
Ezreal, for example, is a Champion we would like to VGU someday (He's not high priority so it wouldn't be anytime soon though.) If we did VGU Ezreal I would imagine it would be more similar to Tristana where we do smaller changes (Maybe just look at his W?) and keep his visuals pretty similar as Ezreal has proven to be very resonant with out players.
WarWork2 votesI think a point he was trying to make is the we should probably divide Updates into two categories; 1) with characters like Sion, Yorick, Nunu who need(ed) major visual and gamplay updates and others live Veigar who could use some gamepla tweaks but NEED a visual update. And then having to wait years for what it feels like to players on just a visual update. It feel like the first group, in most cases will get more prioriy for understandable reasons
WarWork2 votesplus i feel sory for the veigar and mundo mains who have to just look at all these visually breath taking champ getting released and reword and then having to go play a piece or cardboard
Clementine6 votesI like Karthus. Why do you say that?
Wolfeur2 votesDo you plan on replacing all "after death" passives on the long run? Karthus himself is quite different, because his death comes with strategical benefits and it fits perfectly the theme. But what about Sion and Kog'Maw?
Also, his ult is his biggest problem, because it's too easily avoided. Could there be a way to avoid the frustration? Something like splitting the damage in two parts: half the damage as a DoT during the channel and the other half as an end-of-channel burst.
Shadow Assassin3 votesThey really weren't noticed much or appreciated.
Without the VU would have forever remained the "like the kit, but he looks so bad I wouldn't wanna be seen in lane with him" Assassin, and now I think he has one of the coolest designs and weapons in the game.
And my wife mains , so we both love and appreciate the VU for multiple reasons.
bad girl xx6 votesI think you are highlighting why we stopped doing VUs. They really weren't noticed much or appreciated.
2 of the champions on your list already got VUs not that long ago.......
cause the vu u made are fkn trash lol. no recall, new quotes, new design, nothing! only smoother looking skin. look at how mf looks, this is not the person we get to know in her lore. if you gave her a new voice over and a REAL design (cough, captain fortune, cough) maybe then we'd notice it
AlistarMilking6 votesWhat about that one time you gave Twitch a VU with no gameplay changes and his playrate skyrocketed?
Oleandervine4 votesMiss Fortune got a model update, and that was it. That wasn't a VU on the scale of Karthus or Nasus. It was replacing her polygons with prettier polygons. Her rigging and old voice over still exists, and that is what makes her feel much much older and what makes her "VU" lack the impact that a full VU like Karthus had. Sure, you made her hair bob a bit, but she still has a dance that doesn't loop, her voice lines still refer to summoners, and her animations just feel overall clunky. That's not a VU by most people standards, and I'm quite surprised you guys call it a VU.
These champions had their models updated, and need a real, true VU:
None of them got new rigging or animations. They just got model polishes and were called done. Fiora got a brand new kit, new exterior, but the same, old animation and rigging she had from launch, making her feel dated. She didn't even get recall animations, and neither did anyone else on this list. All of these champions need to go back to the drawing board.
Every one of them has had extensive kit work done, and even Maokai has had a new VO added. Yet the thing holding these champs back from feeling refreshed and new is their animations and vocals, which add more personality to these characters than any fresh coat of paint will. Since the model updates, most of these champions have gotten about 60-70% of the work that is usually received in a full VGU. It's time you guys went back and finished what you started so that these champs can feel on par with new releases, as they should feel.
deserves special mention as well. She got extremely minor model polishing, but a revitalized kit. She is in need of more extensive work to bring her visuals and vocals up to speed with her kit.
Super Blessed2 votesI cant speak much for kass, but the MF one went unnoticed because the overall update wasnt very good. Tagging it as a "visual and Gamplay update* when the really only changed her model and animations (and making them goofy).
Grevious wounds were removed for and instant activation of her passive (which was not very clear) and that was it. How is this even considered a gameplay update? She scaled the same, she would do the same thing ... her gameplay didnt change and that was the problem. People were expecting an actual change at the time not 3 months later with the ADC update.
With addition to her in game model, you made some of the strangest animations ever for her abilities (ex. her ult, which you can still see on her champion update page). This caused so much disconnect with players because it was overshadowed by GP, with a lack luster update that you can tell was rushed.
If there is a seperate narrative team for her lore, they did a great job portraying her, however the teams had so much disconnect that everything together didnt make sense. This is why MF wasnt a successful update. It's what leads up to us not appreciating these changes not strickly that we just dont appreciate them.
CleverCactus3 votesI think you are highlighting why we stopped doing VUs. They really weren't noticed much or appreciated.
2 of the champions on your list already got VUs not that long ago.......
They needed new voicelines. The Karthus VU was amazing. Nasus, Garen were great. Not to be rude but MF and Kass VU's weren't the best.
GiornoˇGiovanna7 votes
Erdamon2 votes
NA Darklarik7 votesBase: 
Seems that just because he has a Legendary that puts him up to par with regular quality that people forget that his Base is in worse shape than pizza feet 
This makes a lot of sense and summarizes why our focus has shifted to VGUs
Can you please give an update on Udyr? I havent ever had him so much as be MENTIONED in lists for a VGU and his base is in a horrible shape, arguably among the worst. Not to mention he is a very lore interesting champion, What with Ionia and Feljord and Vastain blood.
SNEAKO5 votes[deleted]
Killaburn13 votesI agree on but i think needs a VGU because his kit and model is so outdated :D
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
Valor Bot6 votesI think Zilean is indeed on the VGU list. For being League's very own "Father Time" character, he really falls short of that fantasy in several ways, especially since a lot of his gameplay is discordant with his theme (why would Father Time run around lobbing bombs on people instead of doing more timey wimey things?).
BotLaneStopDying5 votesUdyr btw 😂🔫
Luminier4 votesThing is, it's one or the other. You either gets VUs or VGUs, it seems. Some champions who desperately need VUs don't really need VGUs. Example: Jax. I feel like making all the ugly champions forced to undergo VGUs is just changing kits for the sake of changing kits. There's a lot of champions out there that should take priority with gameplay updates, rather than just updating an old looking champion's kit because Riot ONLY does VGUs now, no VUs.
All in all, I really feel like there should be a separate team for VUs, and other teams for VGUs. Not every candidate for a VU needs a VGU. Changing things for the sake of changing things isn't cool, and the fact that some ugly ass champions won't get their models updated because their gameplay is somewhat OK really bothers me.
korg0234 votes Ultimate skin should be his VU but they sold it as ultimate skin,please...
GhostOfShrimpmas4 votesCan you guys at least do something about Kassadin's voiceover? Two of his eleven lines reference a gameplay mechanic he hasn't had for years.
MoonToonEx3 votes 
I absolutely ... disagree.
I feel like people get use to stuff if they encounter it often enough for a long enough time. So as a result you may think XYZ champs game play design is solid and enjoyable but really when you look at the big picture their kit is problematic AF or lacks interesting play for either side in the current land scape. (Like Malz. One of the most boring lanes to deal with when he's not broken, makes you wanna prema ban and smack the balance team when he's remotely strong. Fiora and Cait, imo, are good examples of champs that if introduced in the game as they are TODAY people would be completely up in arms about because of how their kits work. )
As time goes by and more new characters and kits are introduced and MORE things change such as items and what not you start to notice how what was acceptable years ago just doesn't age well at all. The are many MANY champs who can breath new life into this game by being updated to stand up to today's bar in both Game play and visuals well not adding in a new champ in the process.
Give me a VGU any day, I'm down for it. WW shows how well they can update a champ without making them completely different and Galio shows how they can completely rework a champ but make them far more interesting for it. (Poppy is in a strange spot IMO. They decided to make her a tank that they wanted to be more of a disengage/ peeler but most players wanted to use as an engaging and she had parts of her kite that can be used for both AND she had decent dmg. So after the nerfs she seems to have hit a long standing low and they're so afraid of broken Poppy they can't seem to figure out how to buff her in a noticeable way. I think she needs a Rek like rework into something her fans would like more. And Sion is a solid rework, I just feel like his kit has too MUCH counter play. Haven't personally played Yorick yet so I can't speak to how he is compared to old one I hated laning against. Ryze is Ryze)
Champs who I think could use a WW like VGU:( updates the themes, visuals and kit but keeps the core gameplay ideas)
Champs who I think need a Galio level VGU: (Completely rework them to better show their theme and power fantasy with in a role)
Champs I think need a Rek-rework: (gameplay to push them more into a different playstyle but whose over all themes/ visuals are solid )
Not including the champs we know are getting reworks soon.
