So....who's in charge of Lore???

Dreamspitter·Sep 28, 2014·16 votes·1,360 views

Word is

https://twitter.com/tomabernathy/status/514179890023653376

Tom Abernathy isnt working for Riot after Shurima.

And neither is Kitae.

21 Comments

DG AshabelSep 28, 201414 votes

That is unfortunate, but it sounds like he's heading back to live with his family and a spot in his life where he's happier. I wish him all the best.

That said, Abernathy's statements and ideas about ideas in game design did get proven wrong over the last two weeks. He said, and I quote, that "plot is highly overrated. Users don't remember plot; what the do remember is they remember characters. Focus on the things that they will retain, that are going to be most important to them in the long-run". He also said that statement was supported by "internal and external research".

But as we have seen since the retcon, that idea simply didn't work. Characters are popular because of the plot surrounding them, as the backlash to changes in Cassiopeia, Xerath and Sivir's lore proved. Similarly, the attempt to retcon the setting into being entirely focused on the characters ultimately proved inefficient and cumbersome. Without the plot existing to link characters together, players started asking way more questions because they need the cohesive tape that is plot linking together the character's worldview, experiences and so on. People have also been losing interest in characters faster because there's nothing interesting in their static existence and no way to make them fluid without plot.

Remember Gnar and Azir? It took what, barely a week for the interest in them to peter out because both of them are eternally stuck in the end of their prologue and there's ultimately very little stuff for players to do with them as a result? Seriously, Azir is about as interesting as a lava lamp right now. There's a story to how you brought it home and installed it, but now all you can do with it is stare at the static pretty colors until you bore yourself to sleep.

So yes, I wish him all the best, but I also hope the last few weeks were a learning experience for him.

DreamspitterSep 28, 20144 votes

That said, Abernathy's statements and ideas about ideas in game design did get proven wrong over the last two weeks. He said, and I quote, that "plot is highly overrated. Users don't remember plot; what the do remember is they remember characters. Focus on the things that they will retain, that are going to be most important to them in the long-run". He also said that statement was supported by "internal and external research".

But as we have seen since the retcon, that idea simply didn't work. Characters are popular because of the plot surrounding them, as the backlash to changes in Cassiopeia, Xerath and Sivir's lore proved. Similarly, the attempt to retcon the setting into being entirely focused on the characters ultimately proved inefficient and cumbersome. Without the plot existing to link characters together, players started asking way more questions because they need the cohesive tape that is plot linking together the character's worldview, experiences and so on. People have also been losing interest in characters faster because there's nothing interesting in their static existence and no way to make them fluid without plot.

Remember Gnar and Azir? It took what, barely a week for the interest in them to peter out because both of them are eternally stuck in the end of their prologue and there's ultimately very little stuff for players to do with them as a result? Seriously, Azir is about as interesting as a lava lamp right now. There's a story to how you brought it home and installed it, but now all you can do with it is stare at the static pretty colors until you bore yourself to sleep.

So yes, I wish him all the best, but I also hope the last few weeks were a learning experience for him.

No.

** Azir and Gnar interest wained** because one belongs in Emperor Herbal Chicken ( 烘烤药材皇帝鸡 ) and the other one is Gnarbage.

Simply put at the moment neither character plays particularly well, though Azir does have some interesting ideas. If these characters were -mechanically speaking the funnest things you EVER played interest in them would never wain. Albeit, you may be right in a way -but the biggest thing hurting them is their gameplay and low win rates.

As to folks being angry about changes to plot surrounding characters, that's mostly because it's stuff changing that's already been established. If all these characters were NEW and came out the same day as Azir there wouldnt be nearly so much backlash and folks might actually like these characters. But they've been around too long, and people are too familiar with them and folks hate change to stuff they're already accustomed with. (Although I personally liked Trundles lore changes and vu last year)

The idea of changing the setting to not include the Institute of War would go easier, if they ONLY changed the backgrounds to not include the IoW but kept everything else basically the same. Editing minimalism.

Finally as to

. People have also been losing interest in characters faster because there's nothing interesting in their static existence and no way to make them fluid without plot.

Well....instead of having a big fat game mode, and then truncating a bunch of characters lore to ** a few sentences (3-4)** and then also promising to deliver on expanded versions at the END of the event......and leaving people waiting, they should have tried releasing an ongoing weekly or monthly comic to go with their new so called "comic influenced art style" so that people can see plot is more than just something done once and then put on ice for months or years - it's something ALWAYS and FOREVER ongoing.

Imagine how people would feel knowing they were watching what was happening to these characters, and the setting in small but decent amounts at a very regular basis.

It would interest people quite a much, and be more "lore" and things happening with the characters then EVER seen before.

DG AshabelSep 28, 201411 votes

Azir and Gnar interest wained because one belongs in Emperor Herbal Chicken ( 烘烤药材皇帝鸡 ) and the other one is Gnarbage.

Simply put at the moment neither character plays particularly well, though Azir does have some interesting ideas. If these characters were -mechanically speaking the funnest things you EVER played interest in them would never wain. Albeit, you may be right in a way -but the biggest thing hurting them is their gameplay and low win rates.

A lot of people like playing those characters. I enjoy playing those characters. Gnar requires a lot of timing and keeping track of the rage bar, but he is very satisfying when you manage to use his kiting correctly or when you set off his CC combo. Azir is maybe less so because he's buggy as hell right now, but he's also pretty fun.

Early low winrates don't say anything about the character's narrative popularity. Hell, they say nothing about the characters' competitive popularity either (hello Lucian and Yasuo, the latter of which started with a 35% winrate). People would still like them if they had any narrative interest to them, but no. Both their stories ended on their prologue and there's nothing to really drum up interest with, since the narrative team shut down he one interesting thing about Gnar, his encounter with Rengar, as "Well maybe he forgave Rengar later".

The characters don't get any response because there's nothing to talk about.

The idea of changing the setting to not include the Institute of War would go easier, if they ONLY changed the backgrounds to not include the IoW but kept everything else basically the same. Editing minimalism.

They actually tried to do that. They said "in order to figure out the characters' new stories, just remove the Institute from their lore and leave the rest the same". Guess what, it went terribly because that's like saying "in order to figure out Batman's new backstory, just remove the part where his parents were murdered and leave everything exactly the same".

People want a cohesive narrative. A story that ignores the butterfly effect of removing a major aspect of the setting isn't cohesive, it's just lazy. Let's not even start on the part where the story is also a game and removing the one aspect that justifies game mechanics from the story makes it collapse in on itself.

Well....instead of having a big fat game mode, and then truncating a bunch of characters lore to a few sentences (3-4) and then also promising to deliver on expanded versions at the END of the event......and leaving people waiting, they should have tried releasing an ongoing weekly or monthly comic to go with their new so called "comic influenced art style" so that people can see plot is more than just something done once and then put on ice for months or years - it's something ALWAYS and FOREVER ongoing.

Imagine how people would feel knowing they were watching what was happening to these characters, and the setting in small but decent amounts at a very regular basis.

It would interest people quite a much, and be more "lore" and things happening with the characters then EVER seen before.

It has actually happened before, albeit not in a webcomic format. It was called the Journal of Justice. Riot canceled it because they thought delivering a continuous story about the characters and their world through a format disconnected from the game is a bad idea, which makes their recent decision to remove the story from the game altogether even more comical and self-contradictory.

DreamspitterSep 28, 201410 votes

It has actually happened before, albeit not in a webcomic format. It was called the Journal of Justice. Riot canceled it because they thought delivering a continuous story about the characters and their world through a format disconnected from the game is a bad idea, which makes their recent decision to remove the story from the game altogether even more comical and self-contradictory.

And many of us Lore Geeks loved the **** hell out of the Journal of Justice.

DiahaneSep 28, 20146 votes

It has actually happened before, albeit not in a webcomic format. It was called the Journal of Justice. Riot canceled it because they thought delivering a continuous story about the characters and their world through a format disconnected from the game is a bad idea, which makes their recent decision to remove the story from the game altogether even more comical and self-contradictory.

And many of us Lore Geeks loved the **** hell out of the Journal of Justice.

Man, if we did! That was superb! And the Kalamanda arc was pretty rad, connecting facts told and foreshadowed in the journal since its first issues!

DotintheparadoxSep 29, 20146 votes

I only came in last year, and I loved that shit!

RAMMUS X CACTUS OTP!!!

Grand ViperSep 29, 20148 votes

They actually tried to do that. They said "in order to figure out the characters' new stories, just remove the Institute from their lore and leave the rest the same". Guess what, it went terribly because that's like saying "in order to figure out Batman's new backstory, just remove the part where his parents were murdered and leave everything exactly the same".

People want a cohesive narrative. A story that ignores the butterfly effect of removing a major aspect of the setting isn't cohesive, it's just lazy. Let's not even start on the part where the story is also a game and removing the one aspect that justifies game mechanics from the story makes it collapse in on itself.

Well....instead of having a big fat game mode, and then truncating a bunch of characters lore to a few sentences (3-4) and then also promising to deliver on expanded versions at the END of the event......and leaving people waiting, they should have tried releasing an ongoing weekly or monthly comic to go with their new so called "comic influenced art style" so that people can see plot is more than just something done once and then put on ice for months or years - it's something ALWAYS and FOREVER ongoing.

Imagine how people would feel knowing they were watching what was happening to these characters, and the setting in small but decent amounts at a very regular basis.

It would interest people quite a much, and be more "lore" and things happening with the characters then EVER seen before.

It has actually happened before, albeit not in a webcomic format. It was called the Journal of Justice. Riot canceled it because they thought delivering a continuous story about the characters and their world through a format disconnected from the game is a bad idea, which makes their recent decision to remove the story from the game altogether even more comical and self-contradictory.

Aaaand here's a part that tickled my fancy. The Batman comment is just the perfect way to view a lot of the bigger character overhauls, how to differentiate if the core of the character was kept or was treated the equivalent of having Batman stripped of his parents' murder but is expected to still be Batman and for us to recognize him as such.

One of the big things Ireally enjoyed about the Journal of Justice was how it predicted events years in advance.Lee Sin wasn't a real champion for years Lee Sin was introduced as the burning monk, Karma was just an Elder and people really liked both Karma and Lee Sin. The JoJ hinted at it and talked about them, explored their characters and released them, just like Sejuani. She was introduced as a side character to Ashe for years, same as Lissandra.

They were in the Journal of Justice, this is also what created the hype for Pentakill since Mordekaiser was given an interview and he said that he's planning on bringing in more members beyond him and Sona. Those who want to join he will find. Lo and behold, Karthus. This is a totally viable, completely plausible form of storytelling. That should be done and was done. Lee Sin was hinted at, because he was too burned up and unable to fight so people wanted to see a blind monk come in and fight. Lo and behold, Lee Sin is released. This is why come April Fool's I was like "LEE SIIIIIN". The burning monk who was spoken of 2 years ago finally released. And guess what? He fucking roundhouse kicks people and sends them flying. This is what got me into a lot of champions, this is why people were thinking that Marcus Du Couteau was to be released, because of how many hints were dropped. That's why some people wanted Zelos, Irelia's brother, released as a champion even.

There was so much more build up, so much more marketing and more hype, and I did not have to worry about what will happen to the champions.

I really like how Skarner still has only 3 sentences, was changed to a merciless jackass and his VO makes no sense anymore, but we will have a new Lore for him sometime in the future, we'll just have to wait with Ezreal, the Embarrassed Explorer.

mtman318Sep 29, 20147 votes

That said, Abernathy's statements and ideas about ideas in game design did get proven wrong over the last two weeks. He said, and I quote, that "plot is highly overrated. Users don't remember plot; what the do remember is they remember characters. Focus on the things that they will retain, that are going to be most important to them in the long-run". He also said that statement was supported by "internal and external research".

That's an unfortunate idea. While characters are the most important part of a story, the plot should never be neglected. Besides, characters don't develop in a vacuum. This holds true for all forms of storytelling, not just video/computer games.

lorewiseSep 29, 20149 votes

Wow, I just found this: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/17/gdc-plot-is-highly-overrated-in-games-says-devs

Do they not have people around them that can quickly and easily point out just how illogical their conclusions are? Of course your average player isn't going to remember the plot of their favorite video game.

Video games are interactive mediums and not all games require plot. Tetris doesn't need a plot, and it doesn't have characters.
The industry itself has neglected narrative in video games, especially in AAA titles the plot is made to be as easily digestible and unobtrusive as possible. So how is your average player supposed to remember the plot of a game that the designers didn't care enough to flesh out?
It all depends on the gamer and their tastes. Someone that plays Call of Duty all day isn't likely to give a frak about plot. However someone that plays RPGs will.

TerraRisingSep 29, 20148 votes

I'll be blunt. I don't think there's anyone currently at Riot's Narrative department willing to be in charge.

My reasoning is this:

The fact that they waited a year and a half for TommyGnox to get hired and settled.
Someone in charge would have their employees speak on the lore forums a long time ago or they would have announced the ret-con months ago.
I don't get the "leader" vibe from anyone at Narrative, as opposed to someone like Ghostcrawler and Morello.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Riot's going to have to hire a new Narrative Lead before we get a new start to the same old cycle (silence, promises, big unpopular changes, appropriate fan reaction, exasperated pleas, silence).

DreamspitterSep 29, 20146 votes

"The cycle continues. We will live. Lore will die. " -Nasus

TerraRisingSep 29, 20145 votes

Yeah. It's also pretty safe to say that Narrative is going to remain silent for the time being. Currently, they don't have a leader to tell them what to say and they're unwilling to say anything for fear of being held to it.

Demonsolder21Oct 9, 20141 votes

Yup pretty much the lore team probably won't say anything because of the fact that they will be held to it

LordHippomanSep 28, 20144 votes

Jeez, they're dropping like flies. My vote is for Runaan.

WhitakkerSep 29, 20144 votes

Rioters who are definitely(maybe) on Lore Team: Runaan Opeli TommyGnox Entropy Jarendan

Those are off the top of my head.

TerraRisingSep 29, 20145 votes

TommyGnox IS Tom Abernathy, iirc.

Cynically, I would suspect that Riot would take another year to find/headhunt a new Narrative Lead.

WhitakkerSep 29, 20142 votes

If we go by seniority, I'd imagine either Runaan or Entropy is the de-facto head of Narrative, insomuch as there can be a "Lead Writer" for what is supposed to be a collaborative team. But I don't really know how long these guys and gals have been working for Riot anyway, so what do I know?

Demonsolder21Oct 9, 20141 votes

hehe right

Demonsolder21Oct 9, 20141 votes

I KNOW WHO IS WORKING FOR RIOT ITS...... Singed Singed RUNS RIOT CONFIRMED