So I have tried the Pacifist Karma in game...

Hozenb·Apr 11, 2018·79 votes·20,567 views

I absolutely love Karma and have been a Karma main for years. I love her old lore but it doesn't matter because Riot had recently drastically changed her into a pacifist spiritual leader of Ionia.

To conform to the new lore, I tried to adjust my playstyle today. I decided not to kill a single minion or harm any of my opponents.

"_Killing would always be easy, but came at the cost of true enlightenment. _" Karma's voice echoed in my heart.

I entered a game as support, with Kai' Sa as my ad carry in the Taiwan server. In the first five minutes, Kai' Sa asked why I didn't use a single ability (even though I actually shielded her). I told her I only leveled up my shield since I didn't want to harm others. She died in a duo fight in bot lane and then gone afk, blaming me for not using my Q.

"Dude, are you Taiwanese? It's impossible to be a vegetarian here, " my jungler said. "No, I am Ionian," I averred.

My top laner said it's stupid for me to play a game and don't want to kill anyone. I replied to him that my spirit told me not to do any harm since I was the soul of Ionia. He said I was crazy and announced to the opponents that he gave up. My mid laner (Yasuo) and jungler (Cho Gath) also seemed to hate this idea no matter how hard I tried to protect them with my shield. They asked the opponent team to end the game quickly.

"Gangplank, you don't understand how valuable and vulnerable peace is," I told the top laner. "We got a dumbass thinking she's a spirit of Ionia," Gangplank told the opponent team.

We lost the match in around 18 minutes.

I wasn't mad because it's just that they didn't understand my ideology as a traditional Ionia spirit. I also realized how lucky Karma was that Irelia and the others who were fighting for Ionia didn't give up the fight and finally won the war against the invaders. Guess I wasn't as lucky as Karam.

EDIT: Match history can be found here: https://lol.moa.tw/match/show/1499100922/4417336 (Sorry for no available English version) EDIT: adding conversation

95 Comments

Tesla EffectApr 11, 201837 votes

Roleplaying in this MOBA game is quite hard, down right impossible since it expects you to do objectives that some champions would not even bother with in lore.

HozenbApr 11, 201821 votes

Dude, I know it's inappropriate in a game. I haven't thrown a game like this before and probably will not do it again in the future.

I just want people to know how ridiculous the new lore is, even though no one in my server even cares.

MarothennanApr 11, 20188 votes

How is it their fault that they changed the lore? Why should your teammates pay for it? And nobody is forced to give a shit about the lore, believe it or not most people play this game for the gameplay not the lore. That's a dick move

PaRa77Apr 12, 20185 votes

{quoted}

How is it their fault that they changed the lore? Why should your teammates pay for it? And nobody is forced to give a shit about the lore, believe it or not most people play this game for the gameplay not the lore. That's a dick move

This, go play Final Fantasy or a single player game if you want to roleplay... you can go ahead and play Sims if you are very into.

HozenbApr 12, 20181 votes

Great point! I do play sims (the mobile version). I have created a toon for most of my loved character from League of Legends! Karma, Soraka, Irelia, Riven and you name it. That's a really fun game, haha. Thanks for your advice.

TerozuApr 12, 20181 votes

I had a sims world on two where every region of LoL was a block of the town, with Morgana and Kayle being siblings who hated eachother, but were raising Morg's child based on my friend Jodi. It was so fun. >.< (my friend was a morg main)

HozenbApr 12, 20181 votes

Haha, that should be a really fun world! In my town, Karma and Soraka are Irelia's mentor and they are willing to share all the knowledge and Ionian folks and lores with her.

In the mobile version though, it's impossible to have that many people in one town since there's an upper limit.

TerozuApr 12, 20181 votes

Yeah my favorite event was, i made Diana and leona hate ome another but they ended up best friends when Taric of all people cheated on them with each other and they apparently bonded afyerwards.

5000000000000000Apr 11, 20182 votes

It's fairly easy for Leona and Sion, but I agree there's a lot of mismatch.

HozenbApr 12, 20182 votes

So is Diana!

I remembered I have roleplayed with my friends once as Leona and Diana in a friendly match with friends! Their rivalry is just awesome for roleplay.

SpecterVonBarenApr 12, 20182 votes

I find it very easy to roleplay Sona, I don't know what you're talking about.

Daedric EtwahlApr 12, 20182 votes

Man I actually tried that during my placements this year, no matter what happened I only ever typed in emotes in the chat for like all 10 games.

I highly recommend it

SpecterVonBarenApr 12, 20181 votes

One of my earliest games I did that too and it was just fun and my ADC found it hilarious.

HalcyonDwellerApr 11, 201821 votes

TBH that is really dumb. You shouldn't have thrown a game just to make a stupid point. There are better ways to argue for a lore revert.

Instead you took something from outside of gameplay and chose to use it to justify intentionally losing the game for your team.

Honestly I hope you get banned. Saying, "I know it was wrong and I don't plan to do it again" doesn't magically absolve you of guilt. You still made a conscious choice to do it in the first place.

HozenbApr 11, 201811 votes

Yes, absolutely.

I have said I wouldn't find any excuse if I get banned. I wouldn't be mad at all if I get banned since I was the one committing the misconduct.

To be honest, losing Karma upsets me much more than losing my account.

HalcyonDwellerApr 11, 20185 votes

Why do things to lose your account when you could instead advocate properly for Karma to be fixed?

HozenbApr 11, 201810 votes

I have posted numerous posts on Reddit and on the Boards. Rioters replied to none of the threads (over 800 comments) on Reddit and did not reply anything other than "I will talk with the author" on the Boards.

I am not saying this kind of action can grab riot's attention. I lost hope when I saw a Rioter's commented on the Irelia AMA thread saying that they changed Karma because everyone being 100% friends is boring. It's like saying the character doesn't matter at all. They just want Karma to be someone fitting into the story plot, acting as a plot device.

HalcyonDwellerApr 11, 20188 votes

Your efforts to prove a point ruined 9 other peoples' game experience.

The other players are people just like you, have you no shame for ruining their fun and completely disregarding their right to have fun playing a fair game?

Velzard of KozApr 11, 20183 votes

[deleted]

TerozuApr 12, 20182 votes

4 mentally normal people

Dont be rude.

HozenbApr 12, 20181 votes

I would say you should be more careful when you use the term "normal". Though I admit that I am not quite mentally "normal". (But all in all, who am I to judge what "normal" is?)

I have been in a clinically diagnosed depression for the past few years. I was so lucky to have Karma being with me in all the vicissitudes of life. I can't express how grateful I am to Riot creating such an awesome character. I am still grateful today.

HozenbApr 11, 20189 votes

What's more, if you think someone who is not fighting when they are supposed to is upsetting and annoying, you should know very few people find Karma's update's a good idea. Not to mention she's now someone she used to be against with.

In the new short bio, Karma is depicted as someone who loves Ionia. Yet, in the actual lore, she chose to fall back when the people she loved were suffering. It's not even a game. It's war. Villages were demolished and sacked, families were torn apart, the lands were asunder. The only thing I know is that the old Karma would never let this happen. She had to protect her people even at the expense of her own life.

DuskDaUmbreonApr 11, 20187 votes

Except, here's the thing:

Gameplay will always be more important than lore. It's a game, not a book. Story and gameplay not matching up happens for everyone. Sometimes it's because they'd just be blatantly overpowered if their full power were brought to the game ( AurelionSol Kindred Bard ). Some are because they'd be close to useless in-game ( Caitlyn Draven ). Sometimes it's because they'd just be too damned big ( Chogath Galio ), or too damned small ( Teemo Tristana ).

Soraka and Ivern are pacifists as well. Pacifists fit in League, despite it being a game about fighting. Deal with it.

HozenbApr 11, 20184 votes

It's not about the gameplay at all.

It's about it didn't make sense to change the lore of a character to the exact opposite of what she used to be.

Some players in League of Legends love the characters because of not only the playstyle but also the lore. To be more specific, it's not the lore, but what the lore defines the character to be. We used to love Karma as the person whose personality was clearly depicted as a strong and independent leader fighting for Ionia. Today Karma's completely gone because Riot updated her into the elderly she originally was opposed to.

DuskDaUmbreonApr 11, 20183 votes

Okay. Tell me, exactly, what old Karma was. Prove to me that her old lore was better.

Daedric EtwahlApr 12, 20181 votes

Well, obviously she was the Enlightened One!

[sg-lulu]

GreenLoreApr 11, 20181 votes

Well keep in mind that a lot of bios are currently more like chapter 0 of their champions stories.

Kassadin in his new bio did not even enter the void,the bio stopped before it could get to this part,yet Kassadin is still called the void walker and his short bio even mentions him slowly dying due to the corruption.

Likewise Annies new bio tells the story that happened in the cinematic and it was said that this was essentially meant to be a background for annie,that would cause her to grow into the champ that you have ingame.So essentially the bio was chapter 0,while the ingame Annie is the one from chapter 2 or 3. And the same could easily apply to Karma here.

And in general it is more likely that Riot would rather try to rewrite Karmas bio instead of just reverting to the old one and writing a bio for a champ takes a lot of time and resources that would need to be pulled from other projects,so of course we wouldn't see changes after not even a month.

HozenbApr 12, 20182 votes

I am not suggesting Riot revert to the old lore since I think it's practically not feasible.

You know what? I was someone who cheered on the street when they announced the removal of the Institute of War and the league and summoner things. I enjoyed the new direction. I totally agreed that they could change some aspects of every lore out there to fit into the new storyline they created. But I would prefer Riot to keep the character (by which I mean the real person) and just change the events that the character would go through. Like if Karma is now someone with reincarnation, what she will do according to her personality? How will she utilize her force during this invasion based on her personality? What will she decide to do when there are internecine conflicts observed after violence is used against Noxians.

I decided to write a full analysis on this, after I completed my thesis in real life, as I have said in another comment in this thread.

GreenLoreApr 12, 20181 votes

Well you say you want to keep them to keep the character. But in Karmas case this was pretty difficult,if not outright impossible.

Because in her original lore she was primarly a diplomat,someone who was known to be able to solve conflicts peacefully. This was changed in her 2nd lore,where she was ok to kill a few in order to save many.

So when doing a new lore for her,they wouldn't be able to include both versions perfectly.

Which is why the new one kinda tried to strike a middleground,with Karma being ok to kill one person(like in the 2nd lore),but then she messed up(kinda understandable for someone who used her magic the first time) and is now trying to make up for this by solving conflicts peacefully(like in the original lore).

That being said,I agree that riot should focus on keeping the character the same,expanding on the character if needed,not replacing them. It is one of the reasons why I think the Varus and Pantheon lores weren't that well received.

HozenbApr 12, 20182 votes

I think the two old lores share very similar core aspects of Karma - (1) she was a mediator, (2) she stood and fought to protect her people.

Before the Noxian invasion, both of them were praised and admired by people because of their ability to calm people, adhere to the traditions of Ionia, and being the mediators in conflicts.

1st lore:

She exuded such inner contentment that she quickly became a go-to mediator and confidante in her village. Her instructors used to say: "That girl can not only weather a storm, but calm it."

2nd lore:

Known for her powerful connection to the spiritual realm and beloved as a just mediator amongst her people, Karma embraced these traditions as an essential aspect of the enlightenment sought by all Ionians.

Then it comes to her first encounter with the Noxian invasion of her village. Both of them wanted to protect their people but through different ways. The first Karma attempted to utilize her eloquence as a mediator and successfully convinced the Noxian commander to release her people, whilst the second Karma used her spiritual force right away after she saw the elders died with the attempt of a peaceful protest.

1st lore:

The villages who survived the assault were captured by Noxian forces. It was then that Karma found her calling. By exploiting the insecurities of the Noxian commander, she negotiated the safe release of the villages to the northern lands.

2nd lore:

As the Noxians advanced, the villagers prepared to accept death, bound to their peaceful vows. But Karma would not accept death and instead saw another way: sacrificing a single life to spare many others. To save her people, she drew upon the power within and summoned the full force of her will.

One more point to add is that I won't say there was a substantive difference between the way she chose to solve the challenge. The decision she made was the one that could save the innocent villager in that particular circumstance. In the first one, since the villagers were captured, she employed a diplomatic tactic to win the fight. In the second lore, since all of them were about to die in front of the heartless soldiers, she had to use her power to keep the villagers alive.

This manifested her assertive and wise leadership quality, which eventually led her to become a well-known leader of Ionia in both stories.

1st lore:

For her devotion and charisma, Karma was made the figurehead of the Ionian resistance.

2nd lore:

She was present at the Placidium, where the Elders had considered surrender until Irelia's impassioned last stand renewed the Ionians' hope. Karma used this hope to solidify the Elders' commitment to remain defiant against the Noxian onslaught. While the war raged on, Karma became a formidable leader of the Ionian resistance

In reply to your point of Karma being a pacifist in the first lore, I want to clarify that it's not the case. As we can see from her old lore, she was fighting with the people and she even tried to learn from Janna to improve her combat skills to resist Noxian invasion.

1st lore:

She never compromised, and she shared every hardship with her people, even when it came to combat. By tapping into her inner resilience, she discovered that she could bring great force to bear against her foes on the battlefield. She modified her fans into lethal implements, and was tutored by Janna to enhance their effects.

To sum up, in both of the versions of her lore, she has been the leader to protect Ionians, fighting together with Ionians and even "shared every hardship" with Ionians. She was determined in protecting the lands, never feared and always was the one to persuade the stubborn elders to resist. In addition, she was a sage mediator, who led people make the right move in the defense against Noxians.

I hope this preliminary analysis can clarify some points for you. Thanks for your comment and please do let me know your thoughts!

Risen29Apr 11, 20188 votes

{quoted}

and are pacifists as well. Pacifists fit in League, despite it being a game about fighting. Deal with it.

Your attempted point fails, only underscoring the problem with karma.

Ivern was specifically designed to reflect his bio as much as is possible in league. He doesnt kill jungle camps. He is the most passive jungler in the game by design. He indirectly sets up others to do the dirty work, as we see happen in his bio (even if unintentionally).

Soraka is also the most passive enchanter support in the game, with the least offensive potential. Her Q really only serves to power her healing. Her design IS fitting with her bio, as is Iverns.

Nothing about Karma reflects her bio. She's an aggressive offensive mage support by design. Which use to reflect her bio. They changed her bio to be completely at odds with her design.

It would be like giving olaf Ivern's bio and then saying "welp, no design is ever going to perfectly fit a bio". You're just making excuses for blatantly bad lore/design decisions.

GhaelWindsApr 11, 201813 votes

Lol this is funny. I wouldn't even be mad at a troll like this that's good entertainment.

ZedexApr 11, 201810 votes

Why would you openly throw a game just to prove a moot point?(That karmas lore got butchered, so did everyone elses.)

HozenbApr 11, 20188 votes

I feel completely sorry for my team and I want to apologize to them. I understand what it feels like to have a troll like this. I have no excuse to my fault if I get banned because of this game.

Even so, I actually was honored by one of my teammates after the game lol

ZedexApr 11, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Even so, I actually was honored by one of my teammates after the game lol

This makes it much better. LOL, obviously they didn't mind that much. Still, risky business.

Risen29Apr 11, 20188 votes

The point needs to be made by playing games to match her lore to underscore how stupid they were to make such a decision. Your goal is suppose to be to improve lore, not crap all over it. You cannot make up a lore for a character that fundamentally goes against everything they do in game and expect to be patted on the back for a grand success.

It would be like taking iverns lore and copy/pasting it onto an olaf jungler with his butcher skin. Everything about what he does ingame is now antithetical to what you claim he is suppose to be.

HozenbApr 11, 20184 votes

Thanks for the comment!

I also realized it sucks to play Karma like this. Karma is supposed to be the one winning lane, pushing away the tyrants who are harming her people and protecting the allies with her life.

sKz Aaron DApr 11, 20185 votes

Now this, this is satire at its finest.

DexterousGeckoApr 12, 20185 votes

Good lord, it must be hard being you. I can't imagine getting this upset about fucking lore that I'd ruin 4 other peoples game and then write an essay about it. Grow up.

TheBentOn3Apr 11, 20184 votes

I eagerly await the sequel, in which you attempt to RP as Varus new lore in game.

l MrD lApr 11, 20183 votes

i think unless im wrong that youre right but since she decided to attack she now does it as she feels thats her part now.... sort of like soraka (havent read her lroe in ages so if its changed sorry :< ) anyways soraka was going to defend someone but couldnt attack she had stars screaming in her head saying not to cause anyharm and must only heal... well now she Qs :o

HozenbApr 11, 20186 votes

In my opinion, Soraka's different.

She made her own choice to attack Warrick in the old lore and she made her choice to attack Warrick's opponents in the current lore (which would be changed very soon though). She fully understood that wasn't something that she's supposed to do, but she decided to attack because she wanted to protect her loved one (Ionians in the old lore and Warrick in the current lore), and she wholeheartedly accepted the consequence.

Karma was in the opposite. She didn't know what her force would bring. She didn't know she would tarnish her souls until she demolished the opponents. She then quickly thought it was a huge mistake and regret what she had done.

gatchiApr 11, 20183 votes

You are my hero

MarothennanApr 11, 20183 votes

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read, you pretty much trolled your team

Supreme Senpai69Apr 11, 20183 votes

This is hilarious and proves a point.. until you link your game. It would have been just as funny and convincing had you made this story up. Pls don't ruin a game like that.

notice me Sin piApr 11, 20182 votes

i laughed soo hard reading this and my roommate is looking at me like im crazy. I'd love to have a teammate like u in normals, but I would be raging if it was in ranked.

Demented GagApr 11, 20182 votes

Why did you bought item 3098 than? Suspicious.

LùmenApr 12, 20182 votes

Why'd you build an aggressive support item if you don't intend to deal dmg should've gone coin

Late For TeaApr 12, 20181 votes

Why did you buy item 3310 instead of item 3304 if you planned on playing pacifist?

[sg-zephyr]

HozenbApr 12, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Captain Tea,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=ptLttLZA,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2018-04-12T18:09:39.100+0000)

Why did you buy instead of if you planned on playing pacifist?

[sg-zephyr]

I have replied to a similar question somewhere else in the thread and please allow me to just copy and paste my answer here:

I just thought I gotta have wards for my team. I didn't realize I have to attack the enemies in order to upgrade that item as it jsut came up in the recommended items lol

And I wanted wards because it provides vision. Providing vision sounds very enlightening to me no matter in the Chinese (Taiwanese) language context or in the English context.

In Taiwan (plus Hong Kong and Macau) community, we always called the wards as "eyes". An unofficial but widely used translation of the wards.