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Honestly, Thank You Riot & Lore Team

Placentas··27 votes·1,404 views

Everyone jokes that Taric & Ez are gay because some of their qualities fit the stereotype of being gay - Ez the blonde twink - Taric the fabulous gay man. Neither one is gay though. Both sharing what many people would view as feminine qualities associated with being gay.

However Val & Kai don't fit any of this. They are both hunters and appear and come across as fairly masculine men. Their most "feminine" qualities are their love for one another, and that's not feminine, that's human and it's beautiful. (Not that there is anything wrong with being feminine, it's just generally the most represented group of gay men in media)

Representation like this doesn't happen that often. Look at a lot of the past and current media in which gay relationships and people are displayed, it's often as a caricature of stereotypes in some way or form - Will & Grace and Queer as Folk come to mind. You usually have to find some random indie LGBTQ movie to find any representation that isn't a stereotype.

Even in Game of Thrones we have one of the most noted warriors in all the land is gay - Loras Tyrell. However there is a difference between book and show Loras. In the books Martin makes note and makes it apparent Loras is gay, but it is such a small part of his actual character. You learn about his heroic feats and his amazing fighting skills. Not to mention what happens to him due to his bravery - yiiiikes.

Then you have show Loras whose scenes pretty much revolve around his sexuality and never display how much of a badass warrior this dude actually is.

I am gay myself. I don't really fit many of the stereotypes, and people are hardly ever able to tell I am gay just from talking to me or looking at me. I don't see a lot of gay people such as myself represented in media. And I think that is one of the reasons why when people find out I like dudes, they're usually kinda shocked. I don't fit the mold that they were taught to see and recognize through the media. And you only need a community college class on the media to know how much the media truly impacts our view on the world and the people in it.

I'm at the age and point in life where I don't "need" representation through media for myself; but that's not to say there aren't those who are younger or just not in the same spot I am in life who do need this representation to help accept themselves.

Kai & Val seem like typical hunting/warrior men of their society, and they also just so happen to love one another. It's simple, it's beautiful, it's so well done.

So thanks Riot. Thanks for adding LGBTQ characters to your lore so gracefully. Anyone making statements about this being LGBTQ stuff forced down their throats is just a homophobe at this point.

Also - sorry for typos and if it seems a bit rambling. I am exhausted, on a few hours sleep and need to work soon. But I was honestly very moved by the new lore, comic, and music video.

[galio-happy]

21 Comments

Quepha13 votes

How is blatantly pouring white-out over an established character "graceful"?

Placentas10 votes

As stated elsewhere, the core of the character is still there. A lust for vengeance, the lost of a loved one, the declining of self/humanity.

Pouring white out would take it away from Pallas, Ionia, using a bow, vengeance, death of a loved one, a fight for humanity, the list goes on. If you are going to try to argue that the lore isn't good, at least present some substance to your argument and not just a grossly exaggerated statement.

Quepha7 votes

The core of Varus has absolutely changed. The old Varus was on a quest for revenge due to his regret over his choice of duty over family. He was dissatisfied with his Pyrrhic victory and in that sense his quest for revenge was less about revenge (You hurt me? I hurt you!) and more of a mask for his impossible desire for redemption (I wish I had gone down a different path).

The new Varus is on a quest for revenge in the most direct definition of the word and it has zero relation to the motivations of the two Ionians he has corrupted. Their love is not for someone lost to them, but someone they are desperately trying to not lose.

In no way are these characters similar.

And A Real Hiero2 votes

They erased his family lol.

KirotheImmortal4 votes

{quoted}

How is blatantly pouring white-out over an established character "graceful"?

This. Make a new character or fallow a path the community established. dont take a character already with a lore liked changed it to make some snowflakes happy.

or at least do it in a way that makes sence. how is this the vengful demon? the spirit of vengence? Hes garnet but grumpy. There is no reason for them to have vengence in the end the everything worked out in a way not expected. Before he had a reason for vegence. he wasnt just a gay hunter couple with no purpose in life he was the guardian of a sacred artifact of unknown demonic power with a wife and child. wife and child died castle beeing attacked and bamn he grabs the darkin bow and goes ham. makes alot more sence then 3 dudes having mind sex in one body

Quepha5 votes

I strongly disagree with much of your wording.

ModKnightsKemplar8 votes

I agree that they are a nice representation of a diverse cast. My biggest issue is that we don't see enough of them, tbh.

I can't differentiate between the two based on Act 1 of the comic at all. I feel like we barely know these chaps, but we're supposed to feel bad about their tragic story. I understand that what I'm asking for is a ton of work, of course, but it doesn't feel like Varus, particularly because the comic makes this all feel so incredibly rushed. With the other recent rewrites (Warwick, Sion, Taric), it felt like Riot was taking a lot of care to preserve the essence of the champion while giving them a fresh coat of paint. This Varus lore doesn't feel like that to me, though.

I decided to dump these thoughts on this thread, in particular, because I want to make it clear which parts rub me wrong and which parts are awesome. I agree that this direction is cool, and it's great to have a more diverse cast, but I'm not sure I'm in love with the execution. The decision to shove the first openly gay characters into Varus's backstory is kind of... weird.

Would love to hear your thoughts about that.

Placentas3 votes

No no, I agree a bit.

I was literally just thinking a minute ago while walking back to my computer "League Welcomes Kai & Val to Summoners Rift" but got kinda said because we really don't get them welcomed to SR.

Like I want more of them just as much as I want to learn about more of Varus. There's another thread talking about how there should be a new VO for Varus that includes Kai & Val and I 100% agree with that.

I would however disagree on saying it was "shoved". The essence and core of Varus' tragedy and story is still there. The loss of a loved one(s) (he lost his kid as OG Varus right? Along with the wife?)

But I think with his old lore the story and revenge would falter out. His family was dead dead, not trapped dead. Now we actually have Kai & Val "trapped" inside Varus. Their story continues, and Val's vengeance is a huuuge part of that too because it fuels Varus' vengeance.

The story would be EXACTLY THE SAME IF KAI OR VAL WERE A WOMAN (not yelling just emphasizing) and that's why I think it works so well.

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

I would however disagree on saying it was "shoved". The essence and core of Varus' tragedy and story is still there. The loss of a loved one(s) (he lost his kid as OG Varus right? Along with the wife?)

This is the part that troubles me. I don't think the essence of Varus's story is intact. Making a demon into the main aggressor in the character takes away any complexity there was to a loving father and husband becoming a violent person bent on vengeance. Now, it's just, "man, Val (or Kai? which one isn't really important) really messed up. That demon-pants guy sure showed him."

I find that less compelling. Not that is has to be less compelling, but I think the way it's currently written doesn't do the concept justice.

Placentas2 votes

Lol no.

Re-read what you just said. You view the love between a man and woman as more valid than that of between a man and a man. That's the bottom line. You just implied there isn't complexity between the love of two men.

check yourself homie

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Not so. If the original story had been a loving father and husband of another man, it would be the same.

The interest in Varus was that he was a good man who became one consumed by vengeance, and that storyline is gone.

Placentas1 votes

You're mistaking storyline and core elements buddy.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by that. It feels like I'm not getting my point across well, and I apologize for that.

But I've been rolling my eyes as much as anyone at the plethora of posts about their sexuality. To me, that isn't the issue. The issue is the "good guy gone corrupt" story was compelling to me, and I think that story is [mostly] lost here. Or least that we were closer to a satisfying version of that with the old lore.

I don't think there's anything wrong with disagreeing with me about that. I was hoping we could have a civil discussion that was grounded in the fact that the sexuality change was a cool addition to the story. When I first replied, you were one of the few people posting that seemed to appreciate that.

MuffledGarbage7 votes

The problem with the lore isn't that the two main characters are Gay.

The fact that you fixated on that goes to show how poor the writing this time around absolutely RUINED the old lore.

If the new lore had the Kai and Valmar be a Man + woman. There would be JUST as many complaints as there are now.

If riot wanted to make Gay representation, they literaly could have changed a whopping total of( Drumroll please)

28 words.

28 words was all it took to make Varus gay.

28 times of scrolling through the text as I did and changing a "wife" to "husband" and "she" to "he".

There is no excuse for deleting old Varus lore.

Nobody would have complained if Riot made my suggested change above.

Not one person.

The most people would have gone is "oh Varus is gay now... ok I guess. He's still cool tho"

By changing Varus's main character into 3 main characters WITHOUT updating the VO of Varus in the same day, shows how Riot's lore team need to stop and think about EVERY little change they make to characters in league.

This change was huge, and as such it has a huge reaction. This is to be expected when doing such a large change.

The lore was poorly written for the actual shift in personality for Varus.

The 3 people in Varus's body aren't out for revenge like the Old Varus.

The 3 people are going to change the VO so drastically that people who liked the fun quotes such as:

"Beware a man with nothing to lose"(there are 3 people in Varus's body so this obviously doesn't work)

"Bloodshed carries a price" (Darkin Love bloodshed and Kai and Valmar are no strangers to it, making this quote thrown out the window)

"Pain is my gift to you"(doesn't work because 2 people in Varus's body don't want to fight and want to return to their own bodies for overly cliché love)

"I'm on borrowed time" (doesn't work because the 3 people in Varus's body HAVE ALL THE TIME THEY WANT!!! in fact it's inferred by Valmar's mother that it will be a very LONG time before Kai and Valmer are able to return to their hometown WITHOUT being melded together in a Darkin body)

Varus's character was changed for the sake of change, and when Riot does change for the sake of change the particular change isn't liked very much most of the time.

The New lore of Varus is so different from his Old lore and changes Varus's character from a Revenge-seeking, self-loathing, Cold, Calculating killer into a Mixed bag of emotions that steals from Kayn to a degree that Riot should look at reverting Varus's current lore back to the old one but replace the Wife into a husband(even though that change is entirely unnecessary and doesn't make 100% sense in Ionian culture).

ChasmOfTrossm6 votes

{quoted}

Everyone jokes that Taric & Ez are gay because some of their qualities fit the stereotype of being gay - Ez the blonde twink - Taric the fabulous gay man. Neither one is gay though. Both sharing what many people would view as feminine qualities associated with being gay.

However Val & Kai don't fit any of this. They are both hunters and appear and come across as fairly masculine men. Their most "feminine" qualities are their love for one another, and that's not feminine, that's human and it's beautiful. (Not that there is anything wrong with being feminine, it's just generally the most represented group of gay men in media)

Representation like this doesn't happen that often. Look at a lot of the past and current media in which gay relationships and people are displayed, it's often as a caricature of stereotypes in some way or form - Will & Grace and Queer as Folk come to mind. You usually have to find some random indie LGBTQ movie to find any representation that isn't a stereotype.

Even in Game of Thrones we have one of the most noted warriors in all the land is gay - Loras Tyrell. However there is a difference between book and show Loras. In the books Martin makes note and makes it apparent Loras is gay, but it is such a small part of his actual character. You learn about his heroic feats and his amazing fighting skills. Not to mention what happens to him due to his bravery - yiiiikes.

Then you have show Loras whose scenes pretty much revolve around his sexuality and never display how much of a badass warrior this dude actually is.

I am gay myself. I don't really fit many of the stereotypes, and people are hardly ever able to tell I am gay just from talking to me or looking at me. I don't see a lot of gay people such as myself represented in media. And I think that is one of the reasons why when people find out I like dudes, they're usually kinda shocked. I don't fit the mold that they were taught to see and recognize through the media. And you only need a community college class on the media to know how much the media truly impacts our view on the world and the people in it.

I'm at the age and point in life where I don't "need" representation through media for myself; but that's not to say there aren't those who are younger or just not in the same spot I am in life who do need this representation to help accept themselves.

Kai & Val seem like typical hunting/warrior men of their society, and they also just so happen to love one another. It's simple, it's beautiful, it's so well done.

So thanks Riot. Thanks for adding LGBTQ characters to your lore so gracefully. Anyone making statements about this being LGBTQ stuff forced down their throats is just a homophobe at this point.

Also - sorry for typos and if it seems a bit rambling. I am exhausted, on a few hours sleep and need to work soon. But I was honestly very moved by the new lore, comic, and music video.

[galio-happy]

What a load of horse shit.

HibikiThePhoenix3 votes

This dude [sg-miss-fortune]

Placentas3 votes

Found the homophobe, that was EZ [sg-ezreal]

Weatherwax4 votes

TL;DR: it sucks that Riot killed a story most of you guys loved, but as gay man even such a small thing means a lot to me, so even if I'm sorry for you I'm still really happy about this new lore

Ok, here's a small thing I'd like to say. But first, I really want to make a couple premises.

First: to all of you old time Varus fans who are upset about the lore change, I just want to tell you that I'm sorry. You loved a champion, and Riot turned his lore like a glove. I'm sure this felt bad for you, I'm not being sarchastic: what I really love, in any kind of media productions, is the storytelling behind it, and as such I'd be super mad if the people in charge changed so drammatically a story I loved.

Second: I agree to whoever said that a brand new openly queer champion would have been a bolder and probably better choice.

That being said, here's my point: as an almost 30yo gay man, there's a thing I had to get used to, and that's...be content. Yeah, ok, "things got better" in the years, but still it's not so common to have a non-stereotypical rappresentation of LGBT+ people in the media. And as such, every breacrumbs we manage to obtain, to me it's a victory because if I don't settle for that I won't probably get anything at all in its place. I really don't want to sound overmelodramatic, but to have a character with an opely gay background who is not the stereotypical "Will&Grace" Character is something I really missed when I was a kid, and even if I'm damn right sure Varus wasn't probably the best champion to which apply this kind of lore evolution, it still made me happy. Like, a lot happy.

That's it for my wall of text, sorry if I bothered you in anyway, have a great day!

Placentas4 votes

Nah man, thank you for sharing your story and thoughts!

I feel like we are in similar shoes & that's one of the reasons why I wrote this thread up to begin with. A lot of LoL are teenagers and many of which are no doubt LGBTQ and struggling with their own coming to terms of it.

If representation like this can affect us even though we are out of our teens, I can imagine it would be sooo coool for someone who is still struggling. I know I would have thought this new lore would be amazing as a teenager and a better representation of my own sense of self.

RÉÁL HÚMÁN BÉÁN2 votes

Volibear

Hige1 votes

Val and Kai were pretty stereotypical though, they weren't particularly burly or anything and they had big eyes and small body frame, though of course, Varus has always been the lean hunk of LoL so it kinda makes sense

also, I would like to note that Varus is not really gay himself, Val and Kai are but Varus probably has too much going on for him as to be worried about love or sex, I heavily doubt he would have quotes towards male characters so all in all, as the homosexual champion he falls a bit short, specially if players go by his in-game character or by the fact that he's more struggling with himself than "proud"

I did enjoy the new story though and I think it's a huge step for the LBGT community to get some bold representation on videogames but as for me, I'll still be rooting for that sweet Graves x TF

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