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Why is Veigar so unloved?

Uriel·7/28/2018, 10:44:48 PM·8 votes·5,774 views

Veigar

Ever since I got to know League, when I started to learn midlane and play competitively, Veigar was very quickly one of my first picks to start with the game. His mechanics are easy to learn to become relevant into the game right from the go, which I found a good step in to get to understand the flow of the game before starting to learn other champions as well.

But one thing that I discovered too along the way, was something I found... sad. For a champion that is so old, I discovered that he's also being very... unloved, neglected, stowed into the 'we'll look at it sometime' corner. I feel that over the whole run, not just the community but also the development team is not looking at him. Things like;

  • Over the past 4 - nearly 5 - years, he has only gotten one skin at all, which was the Omega Squad Veigar skin. But then again, almost everyone was more interested into the Teemo Skin or the Twitch Skin. One skin in FOUR years, while we also have Xayah receiving three skins in roughly a year.
  • ALL his skins (including his default skin) dating before Final Boss Veigar are old. All his abilities from that skin are also ridicilliously old. And with old, I mean that they are still low-poly and unpolished from long ago. When League of Legends started to visually improve, Veigar... slacked behind, and to this day, he still is just sitting there.
  • His voice lines are so little. (And no that isn't a short-joke). He has so little quotes that even a Rammus sounds like a socially interactable being.
  • His pressence is nowhere to be seen in any tournament place, if any, scarcely present. Even a Teemo or Darius made wild appearance in the last LCS matches. The only time a Veigar made an appearance was once in the spring LCS 2018, but was nowhere to be found anywhere in the past.
  • Veigar is nowhere to be seen in any form of lore, video or reference from any other champion. It's like this champion just has no relation to any.
  • Speaking of relations, There is not ANY champion that has a special interaction to him! Not even Lulu, Swain or Kled, the ones who supposedly should have some relation to his backstory.
  • And speaking of backstory... What the heck even happened to his backstory? His backstory matches his size; Short. A yordle who recklessly bought into information on obainint power, gets imprisonned in noxus where he grows insane. The End. Even the other OG's like Garen, Annie, Ryze, Master Yi and Ashe just get so much more thought put into them. What has happened to my little fluffball that has ambition to grow?!
  • Veigar's pressence in the game has been getting graduately receding with every patch, over the past 2 seasons. He has never been changed/updated in YEARS, and gets too far dominated by other midlaners simply because they can grow along the lines. As if the change of item 3165 didn't kill Veigar's relevance enough, the whole Mage update made his mana management a living hell, the melee items made assassins too strong for him to even be able to play (especially now Commencing Stopwatch has a god-awfully long timer before it becomes playable.), whenever a Veigar rolls into midlane, you know who to report for dying way too many times, because he goes online way too late, has no evasion or protection, has no direct-response CC, and his abilities are meaningless before the 20 minute mark. The changes in the meta has just plainly bullied him out of the midlane, and sometimes found a home as a solo-carry Support because he's not welcomed anywhere else.
  • As well in the point above, I don't think Veigar's kit is what a midlaner wants or needs to be anymore. As he is a stacking champion, he needs a big time to build up. And in the current state of the game since long, Midlaners need to start roaming out of their lane to tip the balance into your team's favor. But a Veigar just... simply can't, he needs that time to grow. He is a Midlaner with a Toplaner's power identity.

Whew, that rant is out of my system now. For a little yordle, this is a big concern that I have for this champion. I love this champion a lot, but to see him underplayed and unloved in such an extent worries me. If anything, he needs an update that puts him back into the meta or the spotlight. He needs something more than a skin that will end up being overshadowed by way more popular champions in the same series. In short, there just finally needs to be put some thought into him.

24 Comments

TheBossVeigar7/29/2018, 2:36:35 PM3 votes

As a Veigar one trick, it makes me sad to see Veigar in this state, as he's been my favorite since I started playing League of Legends. I'm glad to see someone else notice he's been left behind a lot (I know there's many, but not many that I come in contact with too often) & not included in lore, or cinematics like many other Champions.

Doesn't really help Veigar is bad to play in this meta since it's all shove mid then roam. Veigar is better played as a bot laner than a mid laner atm, but I refuse to give up on his mid. Veigar's mana management is really hard since we nerfed Archangel's Staff into oblivion, plus as you said before, the new Morello isn't all that good for him.

At this point, as much as it pains me to want it, I'm kind of hoping he gets a rework down the line, but something more of a "relaunch" I guess like Warwick's rework & not something Galio scale that will ruin the Champion.

IllusionLord3337/29/2018, 1:34:29 AM2 votes

I recently got into Veigar, and let’s just say I have found one of my all time favorite champions (he is high on the list). I actually consider him my secret weapon against the meta... Yasuo finished with your team and hungry for more? Just pop your cage cleverly and he will get stuck. Either run or pop him like a balloon! Rengar wanting another trinket for his necklace? Pop the glorious cage and watch him jump into it like an idiot! They should fear the tiny master of evil!

In all seriousness though, Veigar counters this horrid assassin meta for the most part (I probably sound absolutely mad for saying an immobile mage counters assassins). Sure he is very slow, but it all comes down to playing it safe and positioning right. Most of my games with Veigar usually result in zero deaths and a decent grade. I always have a horrible first ten minutes though (I feel you comrade). I would try Twin Shadows item 3905 (know where your dangers lie, after all is very important, and it is a great escape tool), Shurelya’s Reviere item 2065 (escape tool), or Rylai’s item 3116 (to throw random Dark Matters and Baneful Syrikes to escape).

Stacking is a relic of a bygone age... Maybe there is a way to make it more effective? Late game Veigar and Nasus are still powerful (if they can get to that point intact)

I do agree he needs a small update though, mainly more voice lines and lore to flesh out his personality.

getalifecorp7/29/2018, 1:47:44 AM2 votes

Your looking at it the wrong way.

1st

xayah. all new champs get a skin at the start. Then she got the valatine skin. (this was pretty ez since she and rakan are lovers. Then she got the SSG skin. (One of the wordchampions picked her. Pro's that win the world championship are allowed to pick a champ and then riot will make a team skin for them.) If one of them would pick veigar he would get a skin. So riot gave her one skin and that was the valentine one.

2nd

He is one of the older champs so ofc his voice-lines will be a bit out of date. Rito has been working on it. (just look at cho he used to be outdated as well.)

3rd

Pro's only pick what works in the current meta, or if it is a counter pick to a certain champ. (just look at aatrox before he got reworked. Before that he only saw pro play 3 times, but he became rellevant again.)

4rd

The mage items did not screw him over. ROA or Ludens should give you more then enough mana. Mana manegment is a skill however. if you spam your abilties you will run out of mana. This counts for most mana based champs.

5th

Not all mid-laners need to roam. you just need to have lane prio. + stacking is a busted thing in the game, if your opponents dont end fast enough you will go out of control. And saying top laners dont roam is bs. toplaners roam just as much as mid laners.

if your just patient then rito will update him at some point. But his kit is fine and he will see pro play at some point. + more thought in master yi then veigar??? veigar has a way more intrestring kit then yi. (no hate on yi but he just right clicks and you can time q.)

Wacky97/29/2018, 12:45:22 AM2 votes

Just take him top and build him ROA tank like you would a chogath. He can get up to 200 AP pretty easily while building tank items. Throw a Deathcap on the end and start nuking people.

LordHippoman7/29/2018, 10:01:45 PM2 votes

I can't speak to the gameplay problems you bring up (although he is one of my favorite champions to play as well), since I'm out of the loop there, but I would like to speak on Lore for a bit.

Veigar is such a weird character in Lore because nearly every part of him feels like a relic of Old League. Here are a few reasons I think Narrative might be having trouble incorporating him into the evolving world.

**Veigar's Backstory Doesn't Make Sense Now.**

So Veigar's madness is the result of being imprisoned by Noxians. Isolation drove him insane and that's why he's a cackling villain. But that's totally out of line with New Noxus. Old Lore Noxus ran the gamut, depending on the story, from "Ruthless But Free" to "Just Pure Evil". Early on, they were usually just the bad guys used to give someone a tragic backstory. Who enslaved Alistar? Noxus. Who killed Galio's creator? Noxus. Who nuked Yi's village? Noxus. So when the story called for some terrible baddies to lock up Veigar because it's funny to watch Yordles go mad...surprise, it's Noxus.

But New Noxus wouldn't do that. While Old Noxus was described as "notoriously xenophobic", New Noxus is extremely welcoming, gladly absorbing any powerful allies, regardless of origin, into their empire and army. Their response to a competent and skilled mage who can blast away foes with meteors and dark matter wouldn't be "lol let's mess with this thing", it would probably be "Hey, wanna join up?".

**Yordles Aren't Really Explained Yet**

Old League Lore had Yordles as basically small, fuzzy humans. They loved technology, maybe had some special powers, and might have been from space, but they had a static city, a government, presence in world politics, and citizens across multiple Runeterran city-states.

New Yordles are implied to be some sort of spirits? Heimerdinger and Ziggs, formerly outright public figures, now use magic to disguise themselves as humans in Piltover. Poppy is some sort of nigh-immortal wanderer. The entrances to Bandle City are secret portles. Bandle City isn't even on the map. The only two Yordles who have really seen big new stories in the new Lore are Kled, who is an entirely new character, and Poppy, who was retooled as almost sort of a guardian spirit for Demacia. Before we can answer questions about Veigar's place, there are probably many questions that must be answered about the state of Yordles in Runeterra.

**Veigar Does Not Match The Tone Of Current Storytelling**

Veigar was written into a plotline where a mute bard, a Viking, and two undead were a beloved metal band. A robot punched a war criminal chemist in the crotch. Dr. Mundo was a public celebrity. League Lore around the time of the JoJ reveled in silliness, and Veigar is exactly the kind of silly character who flourishes in that setting. Remember when he tried to steal the Mothership by strapping a bunch of balloons to it and flying away?

New Lore has been, with a few exceptions (Kled, that Jinx comic) mostly very serious. The stories have been about things like the bloody takeover of Bilgewater, the ritual murders of the Ascended, the semi-accidental destruction of all of Shurima by Xerath, and the desperate hopes of a disturbed young mage using a World Rune to turn himself into an avatar of flaming destruction.

It's harder to have Veigar strapping balloons to things next to that.

I love Veigar, and I love his role as a goofy wannabe villain who constantly bungles his own plans. I don't think any of these things can't fit into the new universe, but I can see the difficulty in doing so. Although I really hope they overcome it because our boy deserves some new Lore.

Seer of Mind7/29/2018, 3:31:51 AM1 votes

Not sure if its just me, but really I just consider Veigar a dick champion, hes a better nasus in more ways than one, and is capable of oneshots whenever he stuns you. Its basically unfair to play against unless you get counterpicked, and even then you'll be able to stack enough ap under tower to one shot so still unfair tbh.

Once again, just me.

Hyquiem7/31/2018, 6:54:40 AM1 votes

There’s a reason he’s unloved. Tbh that reason comes from the state of the game.

QmegaSquadVeigar7/30/2018, 1:09:18 PM1 votes

Veigar item 3070 Make the Tiny Wizard, Evil again.

Warlord Rhinark7/30/2018, 1:28:33 PM1 votes

I'm not sure why y'all are talking about Gameplay when this was posted in Story, Art & Sound.

veigarbage can7/29/2018, 9:40:33 AM1 votes

I'm a Veigar one-trick myself, and have been for years. I love the champion, so much that I have around 3000 games on him and 1.3m mastery points. I definitely agree with you on almost all of this.

Over the past 4 - nearly 5 - years, he has only gotten one skin at all, which was the Omega Squad Veigar skin.

I agree that he DID need a skin, but he does have 9 skins. It makes sense he's not the highest priority.

ALL his skins (including his default skin) dating before Final Boss Veigar are old. All his abilities from that skin are also ridicilliously old.

This is a major issue with Veigar, I agree. His visuals are EXTREMELY outdated, and an update is long overdue. We had a hint that he was a relatively high-priority for a visual update, but they don't do VUs anymore, so I guess that's thrown out the window.

His voice lines are so little. (And no that isn't a short-joke). He has so little quotes that even a sounds like a socially interactable being.

Again, from him being an outdated champion. I completely agree, though.

His pressence is nowhere to be seen in any tournament place, if any, scarcely present.

This has to do with his kit just being old and outdated. It really doesn't stand the test of time, and almost no meta is right for him to do esports-level well. It also has to do with how Veigar isn't the flashiest of champions.

Veigar is nowhere to be seen in any form of lore, video or reference from any other champion. It's like this champion just has no relation to any.

THANK YOU. This has always been a problem for me: His backstory. It's almost non-existent, and it just feels like it doesn't fit in. Once again, from him being outdated.

There is not ANY champion that has a special interaction to him! Not even Lulu, Swain or Kled, the ones who supposedly should have some relation to his backstory.

Now, while this is factually wrong, as Tristana and Urgot have interactions towards him, I agree that it does feel like he has almost nothing for him like that.

His backstory matches his size; Short. A yordle who recklessly bought into information on obainint power, gets imprisonned in noxus where he grows insane. The End. Even the other OG's like Garen, Annie, Ryze, Master Yi and Ashe just get so much more thought put into them.

This is from those champions, and their factions, getting love. EVERY FACTION besides Bandle has recieved love, with Bilgewater getting 2 lore updates, while Bandle City has gotten nothing. But, to Riot's credit, they have acknowledged this as early as this week, so maybe we'll see something soon.

Veigar's pressence in the game has been getting graduately receding with every patch, over the past 2 seasons.

This is because Veigar's kit doesn't stand the test of time. Once again, old. The slightest balance change will ruin him or make him insanely overpowered.

Verdict: This is all because Veigar is an extremely old champion, with little things that are special to his kit besides his AP stacking. Veigar is like his stature: Little gameplay-identity with his kit being a pretty straightforward burst mage kit (besides the passive), little work done on the character's thematic of being a yordle wizard that controls the cosmos to smite down the enemy, little chance to fit into any meta without being insanely bad or insanely good. The problem with Veigar is solely that he's an old champion, with little ability to fit in with every other champion in League of Legends. He's a champion that was left behind.