Does every champion have to be overflowing with confidence?

Gralph·Jun 30, 2017·19 votes·3,482 views

Based on their voice lines alone, every single champion thinks they're the strongest fighter in the universe (obviously it's more accentuated with characters like Aurelion Sol, but it's still there on everybody else too). I get that it's an easy way to fulfill player fantasy empowerment but do we really need it? Can we have a few characters that are timid or even scared at times? I think something like that would some nice personality variety to the roster.

PS: After looking through the roster, I think the closest thing we have to a timid character is Nami. She's the only one that seems a little unsure of herself at times. I would include Galio here, but the rework kind of did away with that.

Edit: And then there's Amumu. Well, maybe it says something about character timidness if he's so easily forgettable.

55 Comments

RiotRiot TreblMuffinJun 30, 201721 votes

I'm neither an expert on the subject nor do I speak for anyone here when I say this:

I totally and utterly agree. I think deep characters are normally vulnerable and almost always tragic in some way. Look at lead characters from the most popular TV series around and they're almost always deeply flawed. Now, a bunch of league champs are actually pretty 3 dimensional in this way, but their most overt character traits are rarely "sad boi" so I get where you're coming from.

I think one of the most beautifully tragic characters in the game is actually Ivern, if you read his lore and listen to a few of his lines that sort of existential sadness is there, it's just not overt. He comes off as sort of goofy and fun, but that's a bit of the genius of it to me. Some of the deepest, saddest people are those that make us all laugh and have a good time.

I think you raise a valid question. Do people need "I'M A TOTAL BADASS" to feel empowered when they play? I don't know. I'd like to think not. But then again I'm a support main, so, yanno.

RalanrJul 1, 20177 votes

I honestly find Sion's strongest quotes to be his introspective ones. Anyone can be the bloodcurdling monster, but to be confused, maybe even disgusted at what you are but can't stop?

That's tragic. That's Sion.

GreenLoreJul 3, 20172 votes

Yeah I feel the same and in general there are some other champions who have quotes like that.

Jhin for example has some quotes that hint at the fact that Jhin knows that what he does is wrong and that he wants to stop it,but he just can't,cause he is literally addicted to killing,because nothing else gives him joy.And all this talk about art is just his way of justifying his murders to himself.

Then there is Galio,who struggles with his disconnect to the demacians and the fact that he is always destroying the source of his life.

SolideusJul 1, 20173 votes

Existential sadness is a core feature of support gameplay, so I'd say you have a certain bias. ;)

VoidbringersJul 1, 20172 votes

Diana used to be the most deep character in League imo. Her login music and original lore was special. In her login music, you hear her sorrow, her pain, her anger, as her misplaced trust became forged into a cold, unforgiving scorn. Diana had arguably the most compelling lore in the game, especially when considering the amount of depth in such a short passage. Her crusade against the Solari was cruel, and perhaps, morally wrong; but it also, somehow, felt righteous: this is what made her lore so great.

WinTheWarOnPantsJul 2, 20171 votes

[zombie-nunu-tears]

Kitty PixJul 1, 20172 votes

As a fellow support main I agree and because of this I think a someday VO revamp of Janna could lead to truly some of the most beautiful and inspiring dialogue in this videogame.

RalanrJun 30, 201711 votes

Poppy

Apparently you overlooked someone.

EpicurusJul 1, 20175 votes

It's easy to overlook Poppy, 'coz she's short.

IcyPepperJul 1, 20172 votes

snerk

MavenSongJun 30, 201710 votes

Taliyah ?

BârdJul 1, 20179 votes

Lux

In the old lore, she was an insecure wreck with crippling abandonment issues and PTSD from being taken from her family against her will and forced into basically being a child soldier.

In the new lore, she's constantly afraid of being found out as a mage, and can't even fully trust her own brother not to betray her.

She has always hid it behind a sunny exterior, but she's never been the fully cheerful character she seems to be on the surface.

Meep ManJul 1, 20179 votes

I think many of the champions are scared and uncertain. For example, we have Amumu Galio Lux Nami Poppy Taliyah Yorick .

Amumu is constantly unsure and sad as a champion of course. He is cursed to forever to be alone and probably doesn't know why he keeps searching for a friend at times. His story is simple, yet likely the saddest in League. He is depression incarnate, and probably has no real self-confidence at all.

Galio is unsure of what he should do most of the time. Sure, on the outside, he appears to be some big oaf that loves to constantly fight, and he probably is. However, if he kills whatever is causing him to be alive... well, he's no longer alive afterwards. While he would probably never put himself over others, there's probably a small part of him that is unsure if killing every last mage would be the best for himself. Is he doing what is right? When I kill a mage, should I really be killing them?

Lux is unsure of her place in her kingdom and even family. In a nation that taboos magic of most kinds, Lux doesn't really know if what she does is right and where it might lead her in life. In her lore she has come to accept it enough to not want to get rid of it, but she still doesn't know what her powers will do for her in life.

Nami, of course, has the weight of her tribe put upon her. She isn't the oldest and is a little naive, making the weight that much more on her. She's not sure what is right and wrong, or what what is so to speak. She's exploring a world completely foreign to her, making her of course have doubts on if she can support her tribe and perform her duty.

Poppy... Poppy's lack of self-confidence is part of her character. While it could be described as simple naivety and ignorance, Poppy doesn't believe she herself can be a hero despite all signs pointing to it. Poppy has never stopped and believed she herself is worthy of being the hero, simply seeing herself as just the "delivery girl" so to speak for the real hero.

Taliyah has little knowledge of her own powers and isn't really sure if she can control her powers all that well. While she masters it a good bit in her lore, it's still likely that she is far from being where she needs to be. She constantly struggles to feel like she is living up to what she could be and if her powers are really for the best.

Yorick is never hopeful. While he fights on for what he believes is right, Yorick is no optimist. He knows that he might not be able to complete his quest and there is a very high chance he won't. He'll keeping fighting until that day comes, but Yorick has no doubt that he will be tested during his journey and there may be some trials he simply will fail to. The only reason Yorick hasn't given up yet is because he knows that even if he gives up he won't pass on to a peaceful afterlife. It's either carry on or be tortured for eternity, which even the most doubtful person would not want, especially since they themselves had nothing to do with the Black Mist spreading. If Yorick had caused the Black Mist, I could easily see him letting go and offing himself because he feels his past crimes are worthy of a death sentence. However, Yorick didn't cause the Black Mist. He's simply a survivor that HAS to press on. Yorick has no faith in himself, but there is no other choice for him but to press on and continue to fight, even if he wanted to quit.

Plus, I would like to note that while this game obviously has it's share of "doubtful fighters", it's called League of Legends. While a hand full can have some doubt in themselves, you don't typically become a legend by having such a ginormous fault. You become a legend by being someone big and/or doing something big, and that usually involves having to have courage and the ability to believe in yourself. While everyone has faults, the inability to believe in one's self is typically the direct opposite of what a legend of any kind, hero or villain, is.

RalanrJul 3, 20171 votes

Galio's character is so much deeper now that it annoys me when people complain about him only being a big oaf.

NiyumiJul 1, 20177 votes

Ivern Jhin (Really listen to his lines) Lux (More lore-wise, but you can see it in her new VO and even Elementalist), Nami Poppy Riven (More lore-wise than in-game) Skarner Taliyah

LitAFJun 30, 20176 votes

Amumu

JorenciceJun 30, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Based on their voice lines alone, every single champion thinks they're the strongest fighter in the universe (obviously it's more accentuated with characters like Aurelion Sol, but it's still there on everybody else too). I get that it's an easy way to fulfill player fantasy empowerment but do we really need it? Can we have a few characters that are timid or even scared at times? I think something like that would some nice personality variety to the roster.

PS: After looking through the roster, I think the closest thing we have to a timid character is Nami. She's the only one that seems a little unsure of herself at times. I would include Galio here, but the rework kind of did away with that.

How would you fit that into a universe where the champions are pretty much the pinicle of what they do.

I can guarantee you that there's no timid or unsure green barets.

Unsure wimps don't make it to champion level power.

RalanrJun 30, 201712 votes

Poppy : Uhh...hi.

GralphJun 30, 20171 votes

I think you have a point with Poppy, but she seems more unassuming than unsure. Like, she's fairly confident when she's fighting. It seems more like it just never occurred to her that she might be the hammer's choice.

RalanrJun 30, 201710 votes

She's confident when fighting because she's a soldier. A soldier is not a hero, they aren't special and are trained to put others before themselves. So when it comes to being a soldier, Poppy doesn't need confidence, she is assured she is one.

But a hero? Imo Poppy is in constant denial because she's afraid of being the hero. How could she be the hero after all? That would mean she'd be more important than Orlorn, her friend and commander.

You may not think that makes sense, and you're right it doesn't. That's the point. Fear and lack of confidence screw over your logic and make you think things incorrectly. Poppy will never call herself the hero because she can't see herself as a better person than Orlorn.

At least that's how I interpret it. Better than her being retarded.

Edit: I explored this idea in a fanfic a while back.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/wk2MPq7c-hero-a-galio-and-poppy-fanfiction

PlacentasJul 1, 20172 votes

"At least that's how I interpret it. Better than her being retarded."

lmfao

I agree with your interpretation though. Especially how it doesn't make sense due to fear and lack of confidence. I feel like a lot of people aren't put into actual scary situations so they forget that those situations can make your mind do flips and have you make choices you otherwise wouldn't.

JorenciceJun 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

: Uhh...hi.

Bah. Her entire story is stupid.

Welp I just defeated defeated the entire void army and killed 14 lichs before breakfast now I can return to finding the hero because im so weak.

People like that don't exist.

Find me someone who scored perfect sat scores and has a doctorate that thinks they are stupid.

Because that's what poppy is.

And it's not even just being obvious. It's just being plain stupid.

RalanrJun 30, 20171 votes

That's why I like my take on it better.

G4LLOWSC4L1BR4TRJul 1, 20178 votes

What you're talking about is actually a well documented phenomenon though. Two, really, but the more relevant one is Dunning-Kruger.

GralphJun 30, 20171 votes

I guess it seems possible to me because this is such a fantasy universe. Some of the characters get to where they are by training all their life and others are just really really talented like Syndra. A really talented character who's scared of their power (or killing people) doesn't seem like such an impossibility. Kind of like Taliyah, except Taliyah is somehow also brimming with confidence.

Valaran NaraJul 1, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I guess it seems possible to me because this is such a fantasy universe. Some of the characters get to where they are by training all their life and others are just really really talented like Syndra. A really talented character who's scared of their power (or killing people) doesn't seem like such an impossibility. Kind of like Taliyah, except Taliyah is somehow also brimming with confidence.

I feel Taliyah is brimming with confidence because of how she was raised. Not like "I know I am the best," but "Taliyah, you must walk with confidence. Even if you do not know, speak as if you do. Do not let anyone see you falter."

Warlord DienekesJun 30, 20172 votes

That really depends on the person and situation, I think. Ok I haven't met any green berets, but I know a fair few soldiers. Including an old friend from high school. He's a decorated soldier, and he certainly doesn't seem to lack confidence when it comes to doing certain things (often incredibly stupid things). But he cannot talk to girls. At all. It's almost funny if it wasn't so sad. He can swing from fearless badass to timid mouse if there is an attractive female around.

zlumpyJun 30, 20174 votes

I feel like the older champs were more of a goofy or for fun style of character. While newer characters play more on the power play fantasy and have to be "teh supa cools yo!" type deal. Ivern felt like the newest semi goofy champ but I don't know all his voice lines so maybe I'm wrong there.

AmazoXJul 1, 20171 votes

His a goofy grandpa loving rapist in the jungle.

WinTheWarOnPantsJun 30, 20173 votes

I've played a ton of #bestfish, and never thought of her as timid. She is driven to accomplish her goal and confident in her abilities. She is more humble than a lot of other champs, but she would have never left on her journey in the first place if she didn't believe in herself. I get what you're going for, but this is the league of "legends" you don't become a legend if you're not confident. Heck, it's hard to accomplish anything without being confident and driven.

every single champion thinks they're the strongest fighter in the universe

because they kinda are lol(at least in their specific area of expertise) or they wouldn't be in the "league of legends". Differences in personality and motives are great though and that's why characters like Taliyah Poppy who are humble(maybe a little delusional in poppy's case)and know they have a ways to develop, but they are still driven to do what the can, to the best of their abilities.

Nidalee The HuntJul 2, 20171 votes

I keep seeing everyone say that "You have to be a legend to get into the league of legends" but that makes absolutely no sense for plenty of champions. Like Kog, Zac, Gnar, Ori (oris lore explains it. Ori was literally made to be put in.) League is filled with a vast amount of champions with plenty of Personalities and traits. But There is not one scared champion. A scared Champ could certainly added. Think gnar for instance. Mini, just a cute little furball who doesnt look like he'd hurt anything. then the next thing you know hes a giant beast. Im not saying the entire demeanor of the champ should be scared and worried. But I don't think anyones thinking of the fact that they know they are going into the rift to FIGHT each other. they know theyre gonna die. It would be nice to see a champion who's literally afraid of death. Maybe make a support, and when their health goes below a certain amount they gain a movement speed boost with a cooldown. Maybe give the champion an ulti like tarics, except instead of being immune to damage it could be cc or something. there are endless possibilities for champions. Before Kindred was released no one would have ever expected her to exist. the same for Xayah and Rakan. League was missing a REAL Romance. So riot filled the need.

EpicanianJul 1, 20172 votes

Amumu

Hexs FortuneJul 1, 20172 votes

Yorick has conviction. The maiden constantly tempts him to give in and become "so much more", he responds : "I am enough".

The maiden says there is no hope, Yorick responds : "There is some".

Yorick is pretty grim, but he is most definitely resolute in the path he chose, even if he knows he may not be able to complete it.

IcyPepperJul 1, 20172 votes

They're champions, not champioffs :)

some degenerateJul 1, 20172 votes

Amumu Azir Diana Ekko Galio Ivern Jhin Jinx Kalista Karma Kindred Kled Lucian Lulu Lux Morgana Nami Nasus Orianna Poppy Rakan Riven Rumble Ryze Sion Skarner Taliyah Urgot Varus Veigar Warwick Xayah Yasuo Yorick Zed

All of them clearly sound like they're dealing with some sort of depression/insecurity/inner torment/doubt/self-hate/guilt/repression/past issues/what have you with their in-game quotes. Or at least there's something deeper going on with their character, albeit tragic.

EpicurusJul 1, 20172 votes

Kindred ? Really? What is their issue? Agree with most of the others though.

Nidalee The HuntJul 2, 20172 votes

Theyre fate. they have no Issue. Wolf gives a slow painful death to those who run. while lamb gives a swift painless death. in the lore atleast.

SlampieceHawkeJul 1, 20172 votes

Well... they are CHAMPIONS. How often do you witness someone described as a champion irl or in history having low self-esteem? I'm just curious

As human beings, confidence and being a champion are a linear relationship, it goes hand in hand. Being a champion means that you aren't hesitant, you are a victor that stands on top of the pile of bodies you just created. You drink only the blood of your enemies. That's why the humanoid champs are oozing with it.

Devil possessed children , mummies, and armadillo champions don't have to abide by that relationship cause they ain't human... or in Annie 's case are supernatural, dude. So it wouldn't be out of wack if non humanoid champions are missing the confidence factor.

Mortal human beings need confidence to achieve. In general... you don't get a raise without it, you don't pick up who you think is the most attractive girl without it, you don't become an Olympic athlete without it and the list goes on.

To put it into more perspective, do you think Darius Draven Sivir could kill dragon/half dragons AurelionSol Shyvana , giant alligator demigod like champions Renekton Nasus , magic users Lux Leblanc , or floating tentacle death monsters Velkoz without it? I think not, they would run for the hills.

KoKobotoJul 1, 20171 votes

Edit: Kayn literally feels like a character straight out of Soul Eater.

If we're talking about a not so confident character we need a Crona.

I would like a character like Crona in this game like hollyyyyy shieeeeeet. Doesn't have to be similar game play but just it's personality was so interesting. If Crona is some sort of trope league doesn't have it yet. We neeeeed a Crona pls.

Tryficic RebornJul 1, 20172 votes

We have Amumu.

KoKobotoJul 1, 20172 votes

I feel the characters are pretty different.

Amumu is lonely and searching for a friend and when he gets really sad he tantrums and destroys a bunch of stuff around him.

Crona isn't lonely, it is alone a lot but the character never gives off a sense of "I'm so sad because I am lonely". Crona has made the choice to be alone because it can't deal with other people, also cause of Medusa stuff. Crona never felt lonely but realized what it was missing out on when it got some friends. The character is also insane a lot of the time due to Ragnarok and Medusa stuff and extremely aggressive.

After Crona is saved it still retains really negativity and despair as we see from it's ability to write that super sad poem. Crona I imagine is way more shy and nervous than Amumu. Amumu is kinda creepy sometimes ("let me give you a hug") I think if he were to make friends while Crona would be more shy and nervous as we see in Soul Eater.

Hyrum GraffJul 1, 20171 votes

I think if you read a little more into Jhin's lines, you can see a sense of helplessness. At some level he knows that what he does is wrong, but he's like an addict who just can't stop.

Kled also has moments of insecurity when he loses Skaarl.

Nidalee The HuntJul 2, 20171 votes

kled does drugs rip.

Zok72Jul 1, 20171 votes

You should play some Poppy and listen to her VO. She's not exactly timid, but she's also not the queen of confidence. Veigar also clearly has confidence problems and spends most of his VO compensating for them.

TheFancySkeletonJul 1, 20171 votes

Urgot I sure am confident in wanting my life to end.

Scary DoorJul 1, 20171 votes

They're called "champions", not Emo-kids, average Joes, aspiring warriors, etc. I would hope most champions are, at the very least, confident. Not every single one has to be an utter badass, but I think a champion should probably be confident.

Meanwhile, Amumu makes up for everyone that is over confident. Poor guy is clinically depressed. Champions like Poppy are a bit more subtle. Teemo isn't really "confident", he's just good ol' Teemo, the overlord of all the darkness in Runeterra.

Diana seems more crazy than confident---a little too into the moon.

BultzJul 1, 20171 votes

I disagree in part, you cant be in a game called league of legends and have 0 confidence. Like being scared isn't legendary, having courage is and courage goes hand in hand with confidence. I mean we could make a whiny scared baby type character who is nervous at every turn and such, but no one really has the fantasy of playing such a character. At some point the character has to have the confidence or a boosted level of it in order to deal with monsters, beasts, and teemos. Ugly yordle.