44 Comments

Strident4 votes

One of the problems in creating a new race is evolution. It’s a fundamental concept and a subconscious lens we (as media consumers) use to see any organized worldbuilding. It’s easy to ignore it with creatures that are supposed to be purely magical (like demons and ghosts) but it’s hard to ignore the illogic of some classic monsters and races that are supposed to be physical creatures that developed within that world. Many IPs simply avoid these questions or resort to a simple Deus Ex Machina (uh… Titans made them!) Both of those solutions seemed like cop-outs, and if we want League’s lore to be taken seriously, we needed to approach it seriously.

clap, clap, clap.

I had a conversation about this with some of my author friends about a week ago. They wanted to have beastmen, and I advocated taking an evolutionary approach to designing them. Naturally, this evolved into a group argument about whether that's even necessary. Good to see Rito taking this seriously; in a world with scientific thinkers, some people would have asked that question and put together a theory. Being created by Gods is a very Ancient Literature style since the Greeks; there's nothing wrong with it inherently, but as the webpage mentions, Information Era culture incorporates evolutionary theory into its viewer lens.

Chromatic Eagle3 votes

I'm trying to understand how spirits work. We have the Kindred, who are invisible to mortals until we near death. We have Bard, who needs a physical form every time he crosses over. We have Yordles, who have physical bodies, but are so magical, humans have trouble seeing their true shape. So what are demons? Are they more like Bard, like Tahm Kench is? Are there any who are more like Kindred or Yordles?

Sharjo2 votes

Well Tahm Kench is a demon so he's probably the best example to go off of.

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

Do all demons behave like Kench or is he one type of demon?

Sharjo2 votes

I actually can't talk about demons atm sadly. I can only point you to what's available presently. There will be more to discuss in the future though, I assure you.

Sharjo2 votes

I CAN'T I'M SORRY

xScarfy2 votes

So there is something planned for the future that involves demons? Very interesting :D I do wonder: How much insight do you have into future projects? Do you already know about future champions that will come and which region will get some lore attention next? (Not asking for information/leaks, just some yes or no answers would be enough)

Sharjo2 votes

I know some timings, have seen a bunch of work in progress stuff, and much more insight than I did before entering this job. I know a good amount of content that's likely gonna be out this year at least. Nothing I can actually talk about but I do know stuff.

xScarfy1 votes

Oh man, that must be so cool :D

Ralanr1 votes

I'm super jealous. Makes me wish I actually could get my stuff published so I can properly apply for Riot's narrative team.

Sharjo2 votes

Dude having this knowledge and not being able to talk here about it is PAIN. I see questions sometimes and I'm like "I KNOW THIS BUT I CAN'T SAY FFFFFFFFFFFFFFF"

Strident3 votes

"NDA is Pain."

-Sharjo

Sharjo2 votes

You heard it here first folks!

Thefrostyviking1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bLgaIJUI,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-04-26T19:22:57.241+0000)

I'm trying to understand how spirits work. We have the Kindred, who are invisible to mortals until we near death. We have Bard, who needs a physical form every time he crosses over. We have Yordles, who have physical bodies, but are so magical, humans have trouble seeing their true shape. So what are demons? Are they more like Bard, like Tahm Kench is? Are there any who are more like Kindred or Yordles?

Demons are those shadowy fellas that just seem to jump outa ....well....

##Everywhere

Whenever someone desperate needs something. Read the story about Tahm kench and the guy he tricked for more on that.

Ralanr1 votes

So basically instead of the spirit world naturally existing in a stale (even when these worlds are described as constantly changing, they always seem to stay the same) state that mirrors what the world "should" be, it had a separate evolutionary tract?

I like it.

Overlord Forte1 votes

So the Spirit World is literally 'The Warp', and magic is ran by ley lines.

Hnngh, I suppose. I'm not a fan of the concept of ley lines as it quantifies magic in a way beyond that of a natural force. Gravity exists throughout the universe, but matter interacts with it, for example. Nothing more or less. Magic, I imagined, to do much the same, except it is living beings (even microbes) who interact with it. You might argue ley lines arise as a result of particular areas of magic concentrating, but it is not 'the' method by which magic is infused with reality. The fundamental difference spells radically different paths in how magic is eventually utilized, economized, and/or industrialized.

Nylisa1 votes

im kinda sad that they had to realize they are not paying attention to their "beastman" champions until creation of xayah and rakan , considering some of them are pretty popular among both their gameplay fans or character/lore fans. talking about regnar wukong and ahri etc.

but atleast they are now paying more attention to them giving them more love.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

I think during early development, they weren't paying much attention to ANY champion lore.

It's a recent development that they are trying to actually tie all the champion lore together and do some worldbuilding.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Nice blog. I like where they took it, and I agree that it shows a very mature approach to worldbuilding.

HowPlayGAEM1 votes

This supports radical violence against humans by marginalizing non-magical races.

In a vacuum, a self contained setting glorifying genocide of humanity wouldn't be much of an issue, however it is highly probably this is a thinly veiled parallel to current modern society. It is truly disappointing that Riot has decided to participate in the perpetuation of violence and terror.

Ralanr21 votes

Have you met us humans? We're fucking aweful.

Beyond Legends6 votes

It's beautiful though, wouldn't you agree?

HowPlayGAEM2 votes

That doesn't justify propagating "master race" theories and promoting genocide.

Also it's amusingly hypocritical to dismiss humanity as awful while making full use of the progress of human civilization.

GreenLore13 votes

And who says that the Vastaya are better?

Rengars dad was a complete jerk who left his own son to die and later tried to use him,wheras Ahri is basically addicted to killing.

Vastayas are just as flawed as humans.

HowPlayGAEM1 votes

[deleted]

GreenLore6 votes

People like the addition of the Vastaya and aknowledge that humans can be pretty bad. I haven't seen anyone gloryfying the vastaya though.

Ralanr4 votes

I've seen more bashing of Vastaya than anything else.

ChaosThief2 votes

Humanity is incredibly complicated.

Berserknurple2 votes

Societies are perfectly capable of being scientifically advanced while also being awful; see 1939 Germany. Also, magical races existing doesn't promote genocide. Hell, if there really was a "superior" race in our world it wouldn't promote genocide. Ethnic cleansing isn't wrong because no group is superior to another, it's wrong because sapient beings deserve the ability to forge their own path without threat of death.

HowPlayGAEM1 votes

The poster didn't say societies, he said the entirety of the human race is awful. He threw everyone into the genocide dumpster, from the innocent 3 year old to the serial rapist, while using tools that "awful" humans have created.

Also it's not about magical races existing, it's about exalting them and underscoring how they are different, evolved, special. That type of approach was always used for nefarious purposes:

  • Blacks aren't people therefore they can be slaves
  • Women aren't men therefore they can't vote and have fewer rights
  • Non-aryans aren't aryan therefore they can be destroyed or enslaved by the "master race"
  • Infidels are nonbelievers therefore they must be killed
  • Japanese are animals therefore we must attack them (WW2 propaganda)

and now here we have the same situation: Humans are the violent primitive ape aggressors vs the magical immortal enlightened Vastaya.

Berserknurple2 votes

I feel like if you can't understand that progress =/= morality you're kinda lost here. You're implying that humans aren't awful because of all the wonderful technology we've built. We may or may not be awful, but building technology has nothing to do with how moral we are.

As for the main point, the world of Runeterra is filled with "Special" races and societies. That's not specific to the Vastaya. The Freljord's Iceborn are almost literally Ubermensch, Shurima has the ability to to turn its rulers into literal gods. Riot is not painting humans as all bad or Vastaya as all good. Xayah and Rakan are literally rebels who hate humans because of personal grudges. As they illustrate in the story, Zed breaking the pact doesn't mean that "humans" did.

It's pretty funny that this is the lore you think promotes genocide, because the point of the story is that both Vastaya and Humans are made up of many different groups with many different motivations. Xayah and Rakan have understandable motivations, but that doesn't make them good motivations.

Vastaya are more magical than humans to be sure, but that doesn't make them better. They can only venture into areas without rich magic for short periods of time. They are limited to these "inbetween" zones, such as much of Ionia. Many Human champions are certainly equal if not better than Xayah or Rakan. Neither Garen nor Darius, nor Vayne have any magic of their own, but I bet you they'd mess those Vastaya up. Especially Vayne.

Riot's done a great job creating a diverse world that separates races from civilizations, which many fantasy universes fail to do (why would there only be one Orc language, why would there only be one Orc culture?)

Sanctimonious2 votes

Beings aren't equal in fantasy land or reality. If anyone ever told you this, you were lied to. There are better places, and worst places.

In terms of a "diverse" cast that riot has created, i was very much disappointed that they haven't contended with race as much. They have an underlying theme of it in the "Kayle v. Morgana" lore, which isn't canon anymore. You can easily see Kayle as "Justice, Purity, Beauty, and innocent" and Morgana as "Corrupt, ugly, dark." They're the archetype for Good v Evil, Right Wing, V Left, and Conservative v. Liberal. (Not completely, but they're very applicable.)

I would expect to see major, major conflicts and maybe even genocide in such a strong and emotional lore. Morgana may suggest that Kayle's "justice" is only propaganda, and that she really fights for oppression of minorities, and a homogeneous angelic society. That in reality, Kayle is a moral zealot fighting for totalitarian control. When in reality, ironically, she is.

Mostly just personal ideals. I really like "Reactionary" characters such as Xayah, and Kayle. When it comes to building a character like these, they need depth to them and a strong story that brings them into the universe. The stories naturally contain politics, but not in a way that's really hidden.

I finally got excited because i now not only have Kayle, but Xayah to fit into my champion pool as someone that i love. I think league should be a game for everyone, and the fact that they contend with ideas that some of their other audience feel strongly toward, is amazing. I don't recall seeing supremacy anywhere.

TheHappyReaperz5 votes

Most of the Vastaya don't hate humans though. Some of them are allies, like in Rakan's and Xayah's story, other's don't care, like Wukong's tribe, and only a select few actively hate people.

Berserknurple2 votes

The "I just took PoliSci 101" edgy starter package

ChaosThief1 votes

That still leaves the oddity that is Nidalee. The only thought I have on that is that maybe the region she went to was maybe too abundant in magic and mutated her into a vastaya? But that's pushing it.

And also spur of the moment. Curse my curiosity sometimes.

GreenLore1 votes

Nidalee might have vastaya ancestors. I think Sharjo commented that shapeshifters like the pig guy were not included in this update as they don't belong to the Vastaya anymore even if thats where their powers came from.

ChaosThief1 votes

AAAAUGH THE UNANSWERED QUESTIONS ARE KILLING ME NOW.

How does one have powers of a vastaya, but not be a vastaya?!

Ralanr1 votes

Kinda like how being a damphir isn't the same as being a vampire I'd imagine.

GreenLore1 votes

Probably by having a vastaya dad and a human mom or something like that.

She likely falls under this "shapeshifter"-category that floats next to the vastaya tree,but isn't connected to it.

ChaosThief1 votes

The shapeshifter outlier slipped my mind.

QuickenedBlade1 votes

gh

Chromatic Eagle1 votes

For the record, I do love the vastaya concept, and can respect Riot for trying to tie things together. Having said that, between the blog and the video, their handling of it is confusing. The blog explains that the vastaya came from a desire to not handwave the logic of the world with magic or gods. Meanwhile the video diary explains that Riot moved away from the league out of a realization that they didn't have to explain every detail of the game to connect with the story. They even used the Force to say that. Obviously there's a middle ground, but still.

As for the vastaya, if you have been keeping up with the lore, they're a simple enough idea to understand. If you are a new, casual, or returning fan, it's very confusing. Being described as chimeric, magical, animal-human hybrids, it's understandable that people would apply that to virtually all animal champions.

Nasus looks like he'd be a vastaya, but he's an ascendant. Elise looks like she'd be an ascendant, but she's a demigod from a spider god. Warwick looks like he'd be a vastaya, but he's made from science.

I hope Riot spends more time developing that race page.

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