Patiently waiting for NUNU's VGU in the future...
like the title
and hope he's next after swain
[sg-soraka] [sg-shisa]
like the title
and hope he's next after swain
[sg-soraka] [sg-shisa]
Your tactic works. I never wanted Nunu to get the next rework, there are other champions I am more interested in.
But at this point, I would like to see Nunu being the next VGU, just so you stop talking about it. [sg-ahri-1]
i love you satomikun [katarina-love]
sorry, but Irelia is after Swian.
how so? source?
Wait and see.
ok. i'll come back here if its irela and told you that you were right but if not, question your life :)
Tomeksz better get started on those questions cuz its gonna be my boi
:D
no, that's not how it works
I want
.
Be careful what you wish for.
Not to be doom and gloom, but the pod currently working on Eve will be responsible for the next VGU after Swain. There are two VGU pods and basically they are teams of people. For me personally I feel the Eve pod has made Champions more OP than necessary and more importantly haven't kept the heart of the Champion. Galio, for example, is completely different from original Galio in pretty much every way. Whereas the pod that is currently working on Swain just put out Urgot and Warwick, both of which I think were huge successes from both a Gameplay stand point, AND keeping the spirit of playstyle, visuals and lore of the original Champion.
To put this in perspective, WW hasn't been touched since his VGU, and he's still relatively useful in solo queue. Galio, on the other hand, has been a balance headache.
i'm ok with that cause i have high hopes in riot in reworking nunu. lets just wait if the new eve is like galio and then i'll give my verdict.
If they can nail Eve, they'll earn some of my faith back, that's for sure. She's sorta already a blank slate at least, so they can hopefully flex their creative muscles enough without making her some happy-go-lucky character.
As far as I know, that changes after Eve's rework, doesn't it? There will be 5 teams and they are all rotating to do either VGU's or new champions. No team for VGU's seperatedly anymore.
And if that is the case, it is not really guaranteed that the team currently reworking Eve is doing Nunu then.
Is that true? I haven't heard that if it is. Not saying you are wrong, just haven't seen it. Might have missed that.
I found the quote by Reav3.
It was in the champion roadmap from June. Since it got mentioned that the ratio of VGUs and new champions in the next year will change, I expect this system to be implemented next year as well.
Ah, I think I remember this now. It still sort of implies that the 5 teams will no longer be dedicated to one or the other, just that they could possibly do both as they see fit. I'm sure this will mean more VGUs, but it's not exactly a guarantee. Also, assuming the teams will not change, this could still mean potentially that one VGU team will work on Nunu. We shall see.
I do hope that means they will make more VGUs and less brand new Champions. I get more excited for VGUs than new Champions. But then again, I am also more disappointed by VGUs sometimes since there are expectations there. Eh.
This year, the ratio of ressources was given in that way. 60% for new champions, 40% for VGUs.
In the next year, that ratio will get changed to 50% for each of them. People were requesting less new champions from Riot in favor of more VGUs and they did some research. It seems that right now, the biggest part of the community enjoys both equally, new champs and VGUs. And that's why they want to make a fair split next year.
In the years to come, this ratio will change to more VGUs, but that's how it is planned for the next time.
And yes, I didn't want to say that it is impossible that Eve's team is doing the one after Swain. Just saying that it is not guaranteed either.^^
"Next year you will likely see a more 50/50 split if not 60/40 in favor of VGUs"
Exact quote from Reav
Another quote from him in the exact same context. With the 60/40 split, he meant that it might seem like they splitted it that way for us, since it is possible that we get an uneven amount of champions.
But he stated that right now, there are 10 champions in development. 5 of them are new champions and 5 of them are VGUs. The actual goal is an even split of 50/50 of the ressources, since there is an even request for both, VGUs and new champions.
The team members change pretty drastically from project to project. For example, CertainlyT was the designer on Wawick but not the designer on Urgot or Swain. SolCrushed was the designer on Galio, and StashU is the designer on Eve.
One thing I want to make clear as well is that the degree in which a Champion changes "Warwick vs Galio" is not set by the team working on it, but by me in the goals I establish for the VGU. The goals I put together are based on many factors. Old Galio (and current Nunu) was one of are least thematically resonant champions in the game. I felt and still feel strongly that keeping Galios old theme would have not hit our current champions standards and would not have been as successful of a project. One of the goals set from the beginning on Galio was to drastically update his theme. Warwicks goals were not to update his theme, but rather modernize his theme as it was very resonate with players, it's just that most players felt his old kit was very boring to play.
The goals of Eve from the beginning were to keep her current theme intact since it really resonate with many players.
about Evelynn, what's the closest patch we have till release on PBE?
I assume either 7.20 or 7.21
Isn't Stashu the guy who made the original failed rework of Cassiopeia, and made Fiora into the feast or famine monster she is now that people simply can not stand to face? So Evelynn will likely ship out feast or famine and horribly broken. :|
Not to mention the mini-game passive he gave Cassiopeia that Fiora also has in terms of how her passive functions.
I think Fiora is more fair than old Fiora. It didn't fix all her problems, but her ult is waaaaay more healthy than the old Tiamat stacking, untargetable nightmare. I also think he nailed theme.
I have to agree about Cass though, sadly.
Honestly, a mini game might work on an Eve passive, considering Stealth is her current passive and is unique and interactive enough that something like that might work. Not saying that's the only option, but it's something.
{quoted} The goals I put together are based on many factors. Old Galio (and current Nunu) was one of are least thematically resonant champions in the game. I felt and still feel strongly that keeping Galios old theme would have not hit our current champions standards and would not have been as successful of a project. One of the goals set from the beginning on Galio was to drastically update his theme. Warwicks goals were not to update his theme, but rather modernize his theme as it was very resonate with players, it's just that most players felt his old kit was very boring to play.
I'm self aware enough to know that I'm hyper critical of the champ up and skins teams because of Sion and Fiora, so I want to make sure that it's known that I'm saying the following out of blunt curiosity, not any position of aggressive frustration, because I know I've done that in the past.
With that said I have to ask, Who cares? It feels like "modernization" is just slang for "Make this champ liked by the same demographic we target every change to". A range of styles and gameplay preferences doesn't seems acceptable, and it feels like there's no respect for what already exists. You think his theme wasn't thematically resonant, but what about the people it did resonate with? What do they have now that it was changed from what drew them to what draws you?
And it's strange, sometimes it seems like you guys get it, when I see WW or Urgot or this new Xin, but then there's ones like Galio that just make me think champ up is just a Russian roulette, and I should just hope the champs I like aren't the ones that get shot.
The thought process makes me scared for updates Like Kayle, because I really like Kayle, but I don't know if she'll be Kayle at the end or if it will end up like Yorick's update and she gets deleted and a new champ gets added with her name.
[{quoted}](name=Nagoh Shan,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=afLe7W2Y,comment-id=000000020002,timestamp=2017-09-15T20:45:30.199+0000)
It feels like "modernization" is just slang for "Make this champ liked by the same demographic we target every change to". A range of styles and gameplay preferences doesn't seems acceptable, and it feels like there's no respect for what already exists. You think his theme wasn't thematically resonant, but what about the people it did resonate with? What do they have now that it was changed from what drew them to what draws you?
snip
And it's strange, sometimes it seems like you guys get it, when I see WW or Urgot or this new Xin, but then there's ones like Galio that just make me think champ up is just a Russian roulette, and I should just hope the champs I like aren't the ones that get shot.
These are my feelings exactly. Urgot I think is a very good happy medium: they changed things about his lore but it's things that are perfectly in-line with old Urgot. His gameplay is very different, however I think it kept the spirit of Urgot's playstyle and is awesomely thematic. But he's also very modernized. It's possible to respect the original, while simultaneously updating them to your modern demographic. I think this actually produces better products.
I understand that maybe the theme "didn't resonate" with a lot of people, but there's no way it didn't resonate with ANYBODY. I remember old Galio's backstory more than most Champions. I completely understand not keeping 100% of old Galio's theme...but in my opinion you kept 0%. I don't think either is a good solution. I feel that, since it is a re-imagining of a character and not straight from the drawing board, that players' expectations are set to expect some retention of the old Champion's theme or personality, and I think Galio missed the mark in that regard. A more melacholic Champion or a protective tankish mage are relatively unexplored spaces in League, but Galio retained neither of those traits (well, kinda protective tankish, but that's a longer conversation that I'm not really equipped to have).
Thank you for the insight into how the teams work, I honestly wasn't sure how much of each team stayed and who left to work on other projects. I won't go around spouting misinformation anymore.
In regards to Nunu in particular, if he becomes some sad yeti character who takes care of a kid or something(exaggerating, obviously), I think its a given most of his core playerbase will be disappointed, because it's not Nunu. I'm actually really interested to see Nunu and Willump's relationship given more depth, as I think it's an opportunity to have a brotherly duo as a character, something that not only does League not have but is also still in line with Nunu's character. And I'd love for him to have more to do in teamfights while ramping up his identity as "counter jungler" with Consume.
Anyways, enough of my rambling. Thanks for talking with us Reav3. I'm always happy to see that Rioters are so open to conversation.
Except new Galio just is not fun to play. Old Galio really resonated with players, at least those that played him. His spells, his gargolye thematic, everything was unique and cool. Now? It's boring and just awful.
You should have kept him the way he was. He was fine besides his high mana costs. You could have successfully reworked him without changing his whole theme and spells. People wanted his spells to be the same but you didn't do a good job of it, his reworked ult isn't fun and his taunt is just gross.
You didn't make a successful rework, in my opinion.
I have to disagree with you at least in part. Galio's kit needed some kind of update, even if to just better realize his thematic. Not saying they succeeded, I don't think they did, but he definitely needed some changes. Some.
That's why I said they could have reworked him without changing his stuff completely. I wish they would just revert him.
New Galio doesn't seem to have much personality either, in all honesty. I'm not sure if he's "resonating" with anybody.
The team members change pretty drastically from project to project. For example, CertainlyT was the designer on Wawick but not the designer on Urgot or Swain. SolCrushed was the designer on Galio, and StashU is the designer on Eve.
One thing I want to make clear as well is that the degree in which a Champion changes "Warwick vs Galio" is not set by the team working on it, but by me in the goals I establish for the VGU. The goals I put together are based on many factors. Old Galio (and current Nunu) was one of are least thematically resonant champions in the game. I felt and still feel strongly that keeping Galios old theme would have not hit our current champions standards and would not have been as successful of a project. One of the goals set from the beginning on Galio was to drastically update his theme. Warwicks goals were not to update his theme, but rather modernize his theme as it was very resonate with players, it's just that most players felt his old kit was very boring to play.
The goals of Eve from the beginning were to keep her current theme intact since it really resonate with many players.
Glad to hear you are modernizing Eve's theme, she was one of my first champs and I'm super excited (and a little nervous) to see her get updated. Why does the name StashU sound so familiar who else did he work on?
{quoted} Old Galio (and current Nunu) was one of are least thematically resonant champions in the game. I felt and still feel strongly that keeping Galios old theme would have not hit our current champions standards and would not have been as successful of a project.
Could you talk to us a little more about why you think his old theme (sorrowful gargoyle?) wouldn't have been as successful as a modernization/VGU? What explorations led you guys to believe it wouldn't have worked as well as his current one in terms of gameplay/art/theme?
In general, sorrowful or sad themes don't resonate with many people. Most people want to play something that is more of a power fantasy or something fun and positive.
As for Galio specifically we really care about what we call "Thematic Cohesion," which is when the gameplay, personality and art all come together to form a cohesive champion. Once SoCrushed got Galio's new ult in we thought it was super fun and gave him a very cool identity. The feeling of the Ult felt very super hero though, with Galio jumping into the air and then crash landing down to save his allies in danger. We wanted his personality to match the gameplay fantasy, and sad gargoyle really didn't match that gameplay fantasy. We ended up going with a more heroic theme in order to match the gameplay feeling of playing Galio.
Even earlier than that we wanted to make Galio the antithesis of Sion. We wanted to make him Demacia's Super weapon. We asked ourselves what Demacia's superweapon would play and feel like.
I like Galio's new personality, his joke is one of my favourite :D The italian voice actor also did a great job with him, at least IMO
In general, sorrowful or sad themes don't resonate with many people. Most people want to play something that is more of a power fantasy or something fun and positive.
Is this why you updated Maokai's VO and made him more angry? Also, I guess with Yorick you allowed yourselves to make a sad/tragic character, am I right? (I mean, I'm not sure how well "cheerful gravedigger" would work in LoL xD)
It's not about whether they are cheerful or not, its about what they do with their sadness. Yorick is sad but he takes that and harnesses it towards the goal of freeing the Shadow Isles and returning the Blessed Isles.
Sad can work if it converts into a power fantasy of some kind. Old Galio didn't really transfer his sadness into and strong power fantasy or goal. Current Galio is actually at his core very sad. He is sad that he has to go to sleep at the end of each battle. What he does with that sadness makes him powerful though. Galio doesn't want to waste the small amount of time he has to be awake being sad, so he enjoys every minute he is alive to the fullest.
lol this makes me wonder what you'd do with amumu in a vgu
In general, sorrowful or sad themes don't resonate with many people. Most people want to play something that is more of a power fantasy or something fun and positive.
As for Galio specifically we really care about what we call "Thematic Cohesion," which is when the gameplay, personality and art all come together to form a cohesive champion. Once SoCrushed got Galio's new ult in we thought it was super fun and gave him a very cool identity. The feeling of the Ult felt very super hero though, with Galio jumping into the air and then crash landing down to save his allies in danger. We wanted his personality to match the gameplay fantasy, and sad gargoyle really didn't match that gameplay fantasy. We ended up going with a more heroic theme in order to match the gameplay feeling of playing Galio.
Even earlier than that we wanted to make Galio the antithesis of Sion. We wanted to make him Demacia's Super weapon. We asked ourselves what Demacia's superweapon would play and feel like.
so it is just a question of time that amumu will be happy?
I think what I said has been greatly misinterpreted. I didn't say every champion needs to be happy. I said they need to have a stong power fantasy. Lucian is far from happy, yet he has a very strong and resonant power fantasy (Vengeance)
Amumu is pretty cute, so his sadness comes off as endearing rather than weak.
You got a theme you liked, but that does nothing for the people who enjoyed what already existed that ended up being deleted.
So... you are the one behind the abomination that is Mordekaiser?
No, I actually came onto the team right after the Marksmen Update.
[zombie-nunu-bummed]
huh? I expect good things.