Why is the type of lore the lore fans want, not good for the future of LoL lore?

333lom··32 votes·6,635 views

...As Riot said. I'll be short, because I think this is the whole point.

I know Narrative and Foundations are capable of releasing better lore. Better, meaning that it would be composed of events that continue and support the already existing characters, not just be one-trick-hooks, promotional material and retcons of beloved characters.

I understand that a MOBAs tend to have simplified lore, with overblown, one-dimensional characters. But League doesn't have to be like that, and does anybody have an idea why would different lore, resembling the old one in the type of storytelling, be bad for League?

Fans have said they, along with me, want lore that tells us about what champions do, not just what they are. That would drive the world of Runeterra into developing as Riot wants, not just inserting random overpowered characters. Feel free to add more about what type of lore would be preferred, I've forgot. Riot said they've heard us, and I believe them. And they said they won't do as we would like. Why? They said everything they do now is planned, to create base for future lore, and that it will be better this way. But how can it be better if the fans don't like even the base?

I'd love to hear some of your opinions, and is there any point in trying to talk to Riot anymore. Do you have some creative ideas for the future lore?

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140705072353/leagueoflegends/images/c/c5/Institute_of_War_Crest.jpg

EDIT: I am aware Riot said there will be more stories for Champions that got their lore retconned, that those short lores are just a summary of their new ones. But why did they have to change their personalities? Why do all new stories have to be cliché?

110 Comments

UomoAfide9 votes

The point is, which part of the old lore was better? The stories or the Journal of Justice simil-newspaper feel? Is it really something missing or mostly the nostalgia talking? I'm not saying the old lore was worse, but you gotta admit it had it's own faults too. I know, waiting is always unnerving, it's the same for me, trust me. But we should consider this, Narrative Departement took the story of old Runeterra and basically dumped most of it. Many people were angered at this and were more upset when the promised new lore was not released in due time, like Narrative promised (Don't know why they promised such a thing then, considering the general state of lore nowadays, but i'll give them the benefit of doubt on it) and yet every piece of lore was welcomed very coldly. I have been hanging in this board for almost an year now, and i have been testimony of the change of feelings about lore during time. We could take for example Sion's story, considered to be right now the best piece of lore created since the retcon announcement. I have seen comments gradually changing from "This lore is fantastic" to "This lore is nice" and to "This lore is good... i think, meh". So after these changes i couldn't help myself but to think that maybe the problem is that this new lore is simply not the old lore. I know, i'm not getting into account several stories that weren't exactly good (Bard or Kalista for example), but here's the thing. Just like several people before me has noticed, the lore is still pretty open, it tries to be something he isn't old enough to do. I hate to admit i'm getting a bit too dramatic but think about the new lore as a child; "this child had a brother, but he died, the parents really loved him but now they cannot love the younger brother with the same affection. And what is this new child trying to do? He knows he's not like his brother, so he tries to be something he is not, he tries to be like him, to make impression on his parents, but they just can't neither accept it for what he's trying to be nor for what he truly is" let's think about it.

Sneak Dog7 votes

Personally, I liked it when champions didn't get removed. Not having to worry that the character you were reading about might just be removed tomorrow because 'Riot felt like it' helped with investing in the character. This no longer being the case, I cannot invest in the new lore and as such cannot judge its quality accurately.

sp44121 votes

First of all because this game is LEAGUE OF LEGENDS. Removing the, well, LEAGUE OF LEGENDS from the lore is kinda like having Metal Gear without a Metal Gear. Or Mega Man starring Auto.

Second, the League was a unique entity, it was this massive political organization that existed solely to prevent a world-ending war. It encouraged subterfuge and shady behavior from city-states who didn't want to go through it's processes, and we saw how corruption within it could be devastating, it was this thing that the entire world had to circle around and sorta deal with. It made conflicts both political and physical, something that is not often done in fiction. Plus, it gave a reason for all these out-there characters to interact with eachother, as well as explained away a lot of gameplay conventions, and I like it when games do that.

Now, even if Riot gets their asses in gear and actually starts making fucking content instead of rebooting every single fucking thing every two seconds, it's highly unlikely that the conflicts and characters will be much more than Generic Fantasy Land where everybody's an asshole and nothing really interesting happens. Seem it a dozen times, don't need to see it again.

And honestly, Riot's excuse to get rid of it stinks of lazyness, "Oh, it was too obtrusive, we wanted to get it out of the way so we could tell more, better stories!", that's bullshit, limitations inspire creativity, it's way more interesting to see how a world works cohesively around this one major thing instead of just whipping out everything and just telling vignettes about random people we're supposed to give a shit about but don't because they all have the characterization of glue. Yeah, they said that they'll be able to tell deeper stories and characters will DIIIIIIIE and stuff, but honestly, you fucking know that's never happening, not only would fans of characters that they kill want their heads on a pike if they did that, but if they're not allowing Graves to have a fucking cigar the fuck's the chance of them telling anything threatening, deep, or complex?

GreenLore2 votes

{quoted}

First of all because this game is LEAGUE OF LEGENDS. Removing the, well, LEAGUE OF LEGENDS from the lore is kinda like having Metal Gear without a Metal Gear. Or Mega Man starring Auto.

Funny that you take those 2 as examples,because there are Metal gear games that don't have metal gears in them(like Metal gear solid 3) and there are Megaman games that don't have megaman(Megaman zero4 didn't have him if I'm not mistaken) in them...

sp4414 votes

In Metal Gear Solid 3, there was the Shangohod, which was just two legs away from being a Metal Gear, and Mega Man Zero is still part of the Mega Man mythos, and it still stars a Mega Man of sorts.

DG Ashabel6 votes

If you're going to argue about Mega Man games that don't have "Mega Man" in it, at least know the lore. Mega Man was originally the title of the combat-capable version of android Rock, who was the protagonist in the original NES titles. None of the other games used it anywhere within the narrative (Legends' protagonist was Rock Volnutt and was renamed for a localization) up until Mega Man ZX, which finally established Mega Man as a title symbolic of power and ability to change the world within the overarching story.

Incidentally, ZX also confirms X, Zero and the Four Guardians of Arcadia as Mega Men.

Additional trivia: Zero 4 actually started development after ZX and was written with that game's plot in mind. Its events and Zero's actions during it are explicitly designed to showcase why he deserves the title Mega Man alongside X.

And like SP441 said, Shagohod is explicitly established by the narrative as the archetype of the Metal Gear concept. Saying it's not a Metal Gear because it's not named as one simply tells me you didn't actually pay attention to the game's plot.

TheRainInSpain1 votes

Luigi's Mansion 2, from Nintendo, starring Mario. Luigi doesn't even appear as an easter egg, let alone be a major or minor or even supporting character.

A game like that.

GreenLore1 votes

Like Super Mario world 3?A game where you only play as Wario and you never even see Mario.

Or "The legend of ZELDA,Links awakening,a game that doesn't include zelda at all

Or Torchlight 2?A game where the town torchlight was destroyed at the beginning and is never seen again.

Metroid Hunters a game that features no metroids

Also while Luigis mansion 2 does feature luigi,it actually doesn't feature his mansion aside from a brief cutscene at the beginning.(many of the places you explore aren't even mansions)

DG Ashabel6 votes

It's actually Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3. "Super Mario Land 3" is a subtitle.

Link's Awakening is a direct sequel to the Oracle games, which are in turn a direct sequel to A Link to the Past; all four feature the same Link (as opposed to separate reincarnations). It's generally normal for direct sequels in that series to drop the usual narrative structure (Majora's Mask does the same thing), since the player is well aware that Zelda exists off-camera within the setting.

Torchlight is still explicitly mentioned in the sequel and the things discovered underneath it are a major part of its plot.

Metroids still exist within the setting of Metroid and events surrounding them form the crux for several characters's motivations (like Weavel, who is one of the random Pirate mooks who Samus slaughtered during the events of previous games).

And you just said yourself that the mansion is present in Luigi's Mansion 2, even if briefly.

Frankly, all your examples boil down to clumsily picking at semantics. There is a huge difference between "This game is named after something that is established to be a major part of its lore and exists within the setting, even if this particular title doesn't focus on it." and "This game's title is a random collection of words that won't ever pop up within the story in any context."

SpecterVonBaren15 votes

I think what I miss about the old lore was how all the champions actually had interactions with each other, there were relationships of some sort amongst all of them.

Several of the recent champions have no kind of relationship with anyone. Bard is just some sort of greater being that just shows up and leaves whenever he pleases, I was looking forward to some sort of interaction between him and Soraka but he's also voiceless. Rek'Sai is, and although this is the point, just a monster, she seems to have the intelligence of an Alien Xenomorph queen at best, Gnar also has no connection to anyone and has no discernible language (though at least he's speaking some sort of language so we get emotions out of his speech), and Kalista also has no real connection to anyone other than some theories about Hecarim or Mordekaiser being the one that betrayed her. Vel'Koz also has very little connection to anyone other than a vague curiosity about Zilean.

That's what I think his kind of hurting Narative, the fact that a lot of the recent champions have no or little connection with the other characters, add to this that the connections and depth MANY of the previous characters used to have are also gone. TF and Eve likely never had a relationship now, Amumu doesn't know Annie, Kog'Maw is JUST a "pet" for Malzahar ect.

TerraRising13 votes

It's mostly that the old lore, for lack of a better term, existed, while the new lore... doesn't. The retcon removed, in one swipe, years of work for the sake of creative freedom, but nothing was put in its place with any meaningful speed.

Hell, Sion's rework lore was likely done long before the retcon announcement.

I mean, Jaredan and the rest of the company claim that a lot of hard work went into what's supposedly coming out next month. However, for all we really know, the entire crew could have been in a room playing Dungeons and Dragons or some other mega table-top game for the past year, doing nothing but laughing and goofing off until someone important came in and said "So, what have you been doing?"

We just don't know for sure.

333lom9 votes

No, that is not the point. Read again what I've written. Or any other reply to your comment here.

Of course the old lore was derpy and had its flaws - but it felt alive. I've said the old one in the type of storytelling was preferred. Stuff happened there. There was political intrigue between the Institute of War and the City-states. Now, the new lore is moving towards a generic template of a fantasy land. Bard, and Tahm and many others could very well be from Narnia or something.

Azir is a resurrected emperor who will recreate his fallen empire. End of story. I mean, it could be expanded by a thousand more pages by adding some non-consequential events just for flavour, but essentially, that's the whole story. The new Skarner - the ferocious desert monster that guards something dark and mysterious - is incredibly less interesting character than the old one. And even if he gets a hundred-page story in the future that expands on that, I won't be interested in reading it at all, because it will just be dull and already seen somewhere else. I really liked the old Skarner, who was a vanguard of his people, the Brakern, who were both created and threatened to be destroyed by Summoners and the activities of humans on Runeterra. That's a complex story, it has quality. The difference between naive writing and a bad idea should be learned. The old lore was maybe written in a naive way in many places, but it had an overreaching idea. Runeterra was alive. This new lore is grand, shiny and hollow. It's like a big budget hollywood film with no soul.

And the worst part is that Riot is retconning already established characters. Sion didn't have a concrete character, he was like a joke, so his reboot was good. But the Trundle reboot destroyed the old character.

GreenLore1 votes

The thing is that the lore felt alive before,because we got lore updates about the current happenings in Valoran,at a steady place.

The problem now however is that they don't even have a base for their lore currently,many champions are still lacking a fitting background, and that they became slower when it comes to lore production. Even if they brought back the IoW,they'd still want to change several champion backgrounds and they wouldn't become any faster(if anything they'll become even slower because then they'd have to scrap certain plans for the lores and start again).

You talk about how the champion stories end too quickly,but thats not the case.It was said several times,that in many cases we only got chapter 1 of the champion stories(or not even that in the case of skarner and others whose lore was replaced with their short lore),they want to expand these stories and tell more about these characters,its just that they are simply slow(and still working on the base) and that won't change even if they undid the retcons,they won't simply jump back to fast lore releases just like that.

Also you are kinda jumping to conclusion here about skarner.We currently know almost nothing about skarner,so it is impossible to say if he turns out to be better or worse than old skarner in the future.He could turn into generic cave monster no.146,but he could also be guarding the cave of the brackern down there,we simply don't know.

EDIT: Also I dunno whats so wrong about Bard and Tahm having more of a fantasy if not outright fairy tale feeling to them?I mean Soraka was some kind of goddess,similar to how Bard is like a shinto god.

333lom5 votes

To be honest, maybe even weird, I'm fine with lore coming out at even a very slow pace. But only if it has quality.

Read again what I've written. I didn't say that Champions' stories end too quickly - I said their new lore is hollow and cliché, and that's why you can sum them up in one sentence. I said that even if Skarner gets a hundred-page long story after his short intro, it still won't be interesting, because he would be just a desert monster #139.

Some people say "wait, the whole lore didn't come out yet, maybe it will be good." But it is obvious the new lore does not have originality. That's my biggest problem with it. It's obvious even from the fragments we've got up until now. Even the stories they get afterwards will be a continuation of the short summary at the beginning.

Let's look at some minor things now. The Shurima event still didn't get an ending. And it probably never will, MOBAs don't end. It's alright, if it could have some meaningful development, even if the development starts several years into the future. But the skinny story we were given isn't interesting at all and suffers from the "cliché for the masses" syndrome.

Look at all of the new content and think: how is it original? There are actually very few original points, and almost everything is a cliché story, made like that in order to please the most of the consumers. There's a reason cliché's are called like that.

Riot isn't interested in making original stories, like we would like, they are set on creating a generic fantasy land which they think will attract the biggest mass. And they're wrong.

And I never said Bard and Tahm are bad for having a more fantasy feeling, man - I said that nothing ties them strictly to League, they could be from any other fantasy world.

GreenLore1 votes

You could also sum up the lores of many other characters in one sentence. before "skarner was part of a group of creatures that sleep underground and he's the first one to awaken,preparing the world for the arrival of his people,the end" And you mean quality lore,like the interview with shaco that did not reveal anything?Or the lores of Swain,Evelynn,Shaco,whose backstory is basically "mysterious past"(at least swain got more through the JoJ),or Tarics who is simply "summoned to this world from another,the end"? And seriously did you even read what I wrote?Skarner could be essentially the same as before,just living in a different region,yet you say that no matter what they do,he is doomed to be random sand monster #139,without any justification.

Also I think it is weird that you expect the shurima event to get an "ending". Azirs resurrection and the rise of the capital is basically the ending of the event.Just like the Kalamanda arc basically ended with swains rise to power. What did you expect?That azir and xerath are freed/reborn and kill each other 1 day after that?That Azir manages to rebuilt an entire empire by himself in one day? That we get to see what happens several years in the future,thus giving away,what could happen in between those years?

And cliche is subjective. The league itself always looked like the cliche to me.Its the typical "they fight to resolve conflicts"-stuff(also known as combat by champion),but of course the league who is doing this,is implied to be corrupt and secretly evil in some way. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CombatByChampion

And ok,I misunderstood you about Tahm&Bard,but then what about Shaco for example(yeah he really is a bad case when it comes to lore)?You could put him into any other work and it would make just as much sense as it does in LoL. I'd say Tahm and Bard actually expand the world a bit,because now we know that demons and spirits like them exist in Runeterra too.

333lom3 votes

The last thing I wanted to do is to make you angry. I'm not downvoting you, I don't know who did that. It looks like the thing about this, is whether or not you like the old lore - if you dislike it, then that's okay, but there's no point in me trying to write out why I like it.

Assuming that I should explain, here it goes: Yes, in fact, you could sum up the history of the entire Universe in one sentence: it came to be, rapidly expanding and cooling, and lumps of matter and energy started creating; while the separate parts of it are condemned to forever distance themselves from one another, it is assumed everything will end in a big rip.

The difference is, is something important omitted? Maybe how the atoms were created? Maybe some other details as well? Same goes with Skarner's old lore. The destiny of his people was directly tied to the business of the Institute, and how it tries to prevent the world from plunging into another Rune War. In the new lore, it will most likely go like this: In Skarner's expanded new lore, it is said that he indeed guards the latent members of his people. But he protects them from what? From any random threat. But that's just it: protecting them from whatever, nothing interesting. He probably awoke when Azir got resurrected, or something. And his people probably went to hibernation when Shurima fell. That's also a catastrophe story, already seen before, somewhere else.

The most ironic part is, that could have happened even in the timeline where IoW existed. I personally prefer the story where Brakern are dependent on an institution created to try to hold the world together, than where Brakern were just another faction affected by the fall of an Empire.

Azirs resurrection and the rise of the capital is basically the ending of the event.

And that's the whole event. I meant closure as an end of an arc - you know how in television series there are arcs of the story? Something's happening, and there's progression? It wouldn't be an end of Shurima, no. But the "closure" we got was actually the same as the cause of the event - cause: Rise of Shurima. End: Rise of Shurima. It's.. well, lame. It could have been much better.

I said the thing I dislike about the new lore is that it's hollow and cliché.

(I love that tvtropes site!) And yes, the old lore was made up of stitched together cliché parts, and that almost made me not look at LoL more than once - but then I figured what the catch was. What differentiated it from the new lore? It was original in a sense that it found a concrete way of connecting all those random stories in a meaningful way, natural way. It had life in it. From the tv tropes site:

Essentially the plot of League of Legends. The league was formed as a formalized, five a side version of this trope to avoid another world destroying magic war.

This has meaning. It represents the core of their entire world. The new one is now just boring separate cliché stories, with no effect on Runeterra whatsoever. It's like every other generic fantasy land of a new fantasy writer. It's not... there's nothing special about it.

Shaco, and many others could have indeed come from any other fantasy story - all of the champions are rip offs of something. All of them. And that just proves my point - back when the IoW was canon, they were given a reason to be "from LoL". Now, they are literally from other fantasy lands.

Brand is a spirit of fire, Aatrox is a demon. Riot can expand their game with every existing trope out there, and they probably will.

I don't know why Riot is so focused on saying how special their "Champions" are, when the most original thing they ever came up with, the IoW, they threw away believing "it's not cliché enough to attract large masses."

ChaoticPinecone2 votes

You cant compare Sion's lore to someone like Ekko's. Sion's lore placed him in the history of Noxus, tying together loose ends such as Swain and Leblanc's relations, Noxus and Demicia's relations, and even points to his appearance (Jarvan 1's crown), abilities ("halt his charge", "He cut them down", "finally bested, but not beaten") and playstyle as a frontliner. Ekkos was a great story, but did very little for actual lore.

333lom5 votes

You just compared them! You're right, I agree that Sion's reboot was nicely done. Ekko had a great story in a sense that we already knew about those types of stories where a street kid has to choose between revenge and staying with his dying friend. It was a trump card of emotional reaction that Riot used. And it was nothing else. We didn't learn almost nothing about Zaun, even though the kid mentions it in his VO several times.

Ouroborous HD7 votes

its sad cuz riot used to actually try to write detailed lore for champions. it wasnt until a few months ago they stopped trying and released a paragraph that told us nothing important and started calling it lore.

The Trent1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ouroborous HD,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aIuqE9Tp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-26T21:02:13.237+0000)

its sad cuz riot used to actually try to write detailed lore for champions. it wasnt until a few months ago they stopped trying and released a paragraph that told us nothing important and started calling it lore.

No they're reworking the lore lol. They haven't stop trying, they are just horrible at their jobs and take years to rewrite a lore. The only reason they rewrote the lore was because why would someone like Gnar join the League of Legends in the old lore? Or Rek'Sai? The old lore was really good tho T_T. Don't get me wrong I hate the lore team but lol they haven't stopped trying they just aren't finished with the actual lore so they can't write full champ lores right now.

Vistha Kai7 votes

There'd be a reason for them to join.

The thing is that as a lore-adept of the old ways, I do not have even one reason to look at champions like Gnar and Rek'Sai. They just... are.

Narasimha2 votes

A reason for Bard to join? Or Rek'sai? Hell, even older champions had iffy motives, like Shaco, Aatrox, or even Mordekaiser.

Hello I am Bird6 votes

Shaco does it because its fun... Shaco

Narasimha1 votes

So why go the League? Why be bound by countless rules and limitations? If he wanted to have fun, then why not just go and DO it? Who would stop him?

Sneak Dog7 votes

That's exactly what he did. He went and did it. Nobody stopped him so he now delivers his jokes on the fields of justice.

Narasimha1 votes

Now, I'm certainly no murderous psychopath,but wouldn't it be far more preferable to do his work in the actual world? Where it actually matters? Somehow, I don't think stabbing minions, monsters, and champions with no last effects cuts it for Shaco. You don't see the Joker satisfied with blowing up dummies.

Sneak Dog6 votes

Haven't you seen his interview?

GreenLore1 votes

Uhm then please tell me why a savage beast like RekSai should ever join the league?And please without making her an imprisoned champ,because that would simply remove her from any possible future conflicts.

Rek'sai is a wild and furious beast,you can't talk to her,you can't argue with her.

Sneak Dog8 votes

Rek'sai is a wild and furious beast,you can't talk to her,you can't argue with her.

Then why is it a champion? Why isn't it a neutral monster? If it isn't just a wild and furious beast, the answer is Malzahar.

Also note that that background was created for a world without IoW. What is Cho without summoners to corrupt? Nocturne without him questioning the morality of summoning?

GreenLore1 votes

Why shouldn't a wild beast be allowed to be a champion? Some people want to play as a true beast,that is something that only Rek'sai can provide and the reason why she is one.

And it was implied that rek'sai would even attack fellow void beings,so even Malzahar would probably not be able to bring her into the league.

Also it was never said,nor implied that cho'gath corrupts the summoners,that was 100%-head canon.Cho'gaths lore is literally just "he is a voidborn,he is evil&intelligent,he was captured by summoners,he might be able to break free if he wanted" Not even the JoJ implied anything about this either,their sole mentions of cho'gath are about the summoners concerns about the void.

And I dunno,but isn't it a bit hypocritical of you who so much against the retconning of characters,yet you suggest something that sounds like "make her not that bestial to make her fit into the old lore"?

Sneak Dog7 votes

Why shouldn't a wild beast be allowed to be a champion?

What is a champion? Rek'Sai to me feels like a random beast in Runeterra. I don't understand why she is playable, because there isn't anything to set her apart from these other beasts like Nashor or Vilemaw.

Also it was never said,nor implied that cho'gath corrupts the summoners

"Summoner, your darkness beckons." "You'd wish the world you know to end! Yeeeesssss..." "Worse yet, the creature is intelligent, perhaps greatly so, making most wonder how such a monster could be contained."

Seems like quite some implication to me.

isn't it a bit hypocritical of you who so much against the retconning of characters

It's not a great argument to say 'this character from a setting doesn't fit in this other setting, so this other setting is limiting.' A good argument would be to say that Brand was constrained too much or that Maokai wouldn't willingly be summoned given his old lore.

GreenLore1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sneak Dog,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=aIuqE9Tp,comment-id=0000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-27T13:27:23.133+0000)

What is a champion? Rek'Sai to me feels like a random beast in Runeterra. I don't understand why she is playable, because there isn't anything to set her apart from these other beasts like Nashor or Vilemaw.

Well Rek'sai is a powerful beast,why would champions be only limited to sentient beings? Also as far as i remember,the nashor in the game was not the real nashor(and the same probably goes for the other monsters)

"Summoner, your darkness beckons." "You'd wish the world you know to end! Yeeeesssss..." "Worse yet, the creature is intelligent, perhaps greatly so, making most wonder how such a monster could be contained."

Just because Cho'gath says this doesn't have to mean he has an actual ability to do this.Nocturne also tells the summoners to embrace the darkness,but he has no known ability to corrupt them.They sound more like taunts to the summoners than outright attempts to manipulate them. Also just because Cho is intelligent doesn't mean he corrupts them.

Sneak Dog3 votes

Well Rek'sai is a powerful beast,why would champions be only limited to sentient beings?

Not just any civilian is a champion. What makes it so that Rek'Sai is a champion but Nashor is not? Are all powerful beings in Valoran (going to be) champions?

The old lore had a very clear distinction, the new lore doesn't care about which characters are playable one little bit...

Just because

It's implied, which added to the story. It's uncertain whether you were dooming yourself by summoning the mighty Cho'Gath. Doesn't matter too much though, for that all got retconned anyway.

Vistha Kai4 votes

Well, as long as this game is named "League of Legends"... Why should she be a champion?

The answer is: She doesn't have ANY reasons to be a champion after the retcon.

GreenLore1 votes

Uhm yeah,because after the retcon no one needs a reason to join anymore obviously,because the league doesn't exist.

The question is,how could they have justified it that Rek'sai is a champion if the league was still present.

Vistha Kai2 votes

Do you want me to theory craft what Narrative/Foundations/Whateverthatcrapis couldn't do?

You got some responses here and you completely ignored the logic behind them, so there one more reason for me to not think about this issue.

Xulsigae5 votes

Her lore could be made to give a reason. The League didn't have to vanish for her to have a reason.

GreenLore1 votes

Then tell me one? You say she could have one,but you don't give an example.

Xulsigae7 votes

So? I'm not the writers. I can think of many, but that would create arguments and I'm not interested in defending the nitty gritty details of anything I come up with. My main point is that the League was not a hindrance to reasons for champions to be part of the story. Every story has a limitation of some sort and good writers use that to their advantage rather than just get rid of it.

GreenLore1 votes

Sorry,but that just sounds like "you might find a problem with my ideas,so I'm not gonna say them"

It is easy to say "a good writer could do it",but it is hard to think of a justifiable reason,especially in this case where the champ is an agressive monster that you can't talk with and you want it to willingly join the league or at least in a way that still allows her complete freedom.

Xulsigae4 votes

I don't want to get bogged down in the details of any reason I think of. Take from that what you wish.

I didn't say anything about complete freedom or willingly join. Hard doesn't mean it can't be done, and it doesn't mean the League had to be expunged to allow for it. I don't want lore that is 'easy' to make. I want quality lore that is inventive within the bounds of the game and the setting. There are numerous examples of 'groups' and 'leagues' and places that focus a story and enrich it through good writing. Hogwarts, Justice League, that battle ground in the Hunger Games, the Jury Room of 12 Angry Men, etc. In such stories the characters come together and interact in those places and have reasons to do so. Some come together by chance, some by choice, some by destiny, some by force, or a mixture. Coming up with good reasons might be hard, and the setting might be limiting, but good story telling still occurs. Even outside those places the characters can have rich and interesting lives. Many League champions had those outside of the League.

Her lore and character could be different, which is certainly easier than changing the entire lore of the game. One champion being different is a smaller and less disruptive change than the entire basis of the lore being removed and everyone else's lore being changed to fit. Personally I don't think she's a good character for the very reason she's bestial and doesn't communicate in ways we understand. She's boring to me. Same with Gnar and Bard.

Peridition6 votes

I think the thing a lot of lore fans seem to forget is that its hard to progress the story forward, if the story is ill-defined to begin with.

How do you move the story of Shurima forward if you have a very poor understanding of what Shurima's identity even is? Same goes for Bilgewater.

I would like the story of Runeterra to move forward too. But there are a lot of gaps that need filling first.

Heckin Support7 votes

{quoted}

I think the thing a lot of lore fans seem to forget is that its hard to progress the story forward, if the story is ill-defined to begin with.

How do you move the story of Shurima forward if you have a very poor understanding of what Shurima's identity even is? Same goes for Bilgewater.

I would like the story of Runeterra to move forward too. But there are a lot of gaps that need filling first.

Yah but they couldn't of filled those gaps before removing all the old lore? What was the point of removing all that old lore and then say "soon" when soon is years later?

LordGeovanni1 votes

more likely sooner than KH3

Gorgiolio2 votes

Kingdom Hearts 3?

Hello I am Bird5 votes

{quoted}

more likely sooner than KH3 HL3

Ftfy

TerraRising8 votes

{quoted}

I think the thing a lot of lore fans seem to forget is that its hard to progress the story forward, if the story is ill-defined to begin with.

How do you move the story of Shurima forward if you have a very poor understanding of what Shurima's identity even is? Same goes for Bilgewater.

I would like the story of Runeterra to move forward too. But there are a lot of gaps that need filling first.

With the speed that Riot and Narrative prefer releasing these events, there's not enough patience flowing through the hardcore lore fans to allow such a slow progression. (At the current pace, they'll have an event for each region currently known on Valoran by 2025.)

It took lore fans a week to digest and critique Shurima. That was 9 months ago. Since then, the best fictional stories coming from Jaredan and his team have been all about how hard they're working behind the scenes and the unknown tech issues that stopped them from doing anything.

While I agree that there are a lot of gaps that need to be dealt with, they really need to speed up the pace with which they do it.

NorthernDruid7 votes

Indeed. Filling in and defining things better is something that LoL's lore could use in it's current state. As in, the state of the lore left hanging while the ones in charge of it go off to make an unrelated set of stories in an AU with many of the same characters in it.

The question is really, how do you keep telling the story of a world when you removed all the core setting elements and left nothing in their place.

After they announced the retcon, they've done very little retconning (mostly taking stuff out and leaving short bereft paragraphs in their place) and very much random short works not incompatible with the current lore they still haven't actually retconned.

(You need to do more than just announce it for a retcon to happen, you can't just decanonize everything and then claim that your new series of animation shorts are lore to a game about stuff you took out.)

I'd love to see a lot of those gaps filled, and details brought up to coherency. Too bad that'll not happen since narrative is busy building this new weird non-lore AU to support their game instead of focusing on immersive lore.

kitcat3001 votes

Just to make sure I understand.

Do you just flat out not like the retcon at all, or it's direction? Or Are you unhappy that since it's announcement, follow up has been painfully slow?

TBH, I'm just disappointed with it because until the retcon is actually finished, the lore isn't progressing. Hard to judge an unfinished story.

333lom10 votes

Well, I was angry when I heard Riot was removing the Summoners and IoW out of existence, because I really liked those parts of the lore. They made LoL universe unique.

I'm also disappointed with the direction of the new lore. Many people say "not much is out yet, wait and see", but actually, we got a lot of hint towards what the new lore is moving. It will be a generic fantasy land with no truly interesting events. They can resurrect an entire fallen empire (as they did), but that event won't be interesting, because you've seen similar stuff a million times before. But I can hardly say I've ever come across a character like the old Skarner, whose people were both created and threatened to be destroyed by the Summoners. It directly ties the fate of an entire people to actions of Summoners, who are struggling to shape the fate of their world as well. It was all interconnected.

The new lore? I mean, Riot may release a lot of new lore in ten thousand years from now, but it will all be - already seen - just somewhere else. Whether in Narnia, Lord of the Rings, Warhammer 40k or somewhere else. What does differentiate Bard from a Ghibli film and tie him strictly to League?

I don't think Riot will ever finish any story they've started. It would conflict the purpose of the never ending MOBA. What would happen if somehow, for an example let's say, Jayce was revealed as a phony and lost the title of the Defender of his city? He has to stay like that for ever, in order to reflect the character in-game.

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