Orianna is a technical marvel comprised entirely of clockwork, but it was not always so - she was once a girl of flesh and blood.
######.
Within a year, Orianna was almost entirely mechanical, save for her heart, which remained miraculously untainted by the creeping toxins.
I am the first of ma-
Hi.
. . . I am the second of many.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/011/307/Screen_Shot_2012-09-13_at_9.39.39_AM.png
Ask the Herald27 votesTruly terrible. Viktor just can't catch a break at all, can he? He was doomed to fail from his very creation.
A Superb Villain29 votesHe's not bad, he's just written that way.
=^)
Virgin Ray2 votesI was going to say he wasn't viktorious in his creation but that works too
The Anagram King19 votes "Annoy, then ignore!!"
(Viktor fan-relations policy)
A Superb Villain20 votesAt this point I genuinely believe Riot's Narrative Team is having itself a giggle over how far they can push Viktor's character into villainy without explicit claims; the Glorious Evolved are questionable, and are connected to his Glorious Evolution somehow, and he's willing to lobotomize his fellow man - for science! - but only in Jayce's lore.
The Anagram King8 votesOne day he hopes to grow up and be like Orianna. Sometimes you just have to pick between lobotomies and published peer review papers, y'know?
Besides, isn't Jayce RUDE? Vik should really do something to that guy.
Ask the Herald16 votes[{quoted}](name=The Anagram King,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Rz4Ed8Vz,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-08T07:04:10.892+0000)
One day he hopes to grow up and be like Orianna. Sometimes you just have to pick between lobotomies and published peer review papers, y'know?
Besides, isn't Jayce RUDE? Vik should really do something to that guy.
Murder is totally justifiable if the guy's a jackass, right?
The Anagram King18 votesYup! Even if he apologises. No, wait!
ESPECIALLY if he apologises.
It Hertz When IP2 votesPretty sure that's the plot of Dexter.
Ralanr3 votesTo be honest I feel like those people were either dead or dying before he used them.
A Superb Villain3 votesAnd I would be fine with that, but there is this little itch at the back of my mind that reminds me new Viktor doesn't give two shits about free will, you know, that determining factor of human autonomy that caused such uproars as The American Revolution, The French Revolution, The October Revolution, the Civil Rights Movement, and pretty much every conflict where one party felt they were being mistreated.
So hey, maybe Viktor did save them from death's embrace! They never need fear dying ever again, and all that trouble of thinking for themselves, he took care of that too! No more pesky, irrational thoughts, no more distracting individuality to prevent them from following the only will that matters: Viktor's.
That's heroic, right? I may be biased, but I think it is. There's no way people will misconstrue that as attempts to convert them into mindless, robotic slaves, validating every rumor and accusation ever made against the Glorious Evolution.
Off Meta Evan1 votesto be fair Zaun is kinda SUPPOSED to be the bad guys. While their are good people there from there 
most of them want or wanted to LEAVE zaun ASAP. On top of creating monstrosities like 
it kinda makes sense that the scientist that wants to throw away his humanity and is opposing the cocky hero with a heart of gold, is viewed in a negative light.
Dolasaur5 votesto be fair Zaun is kinda SUPPOSED to be the bad guys.
I don't think Riot wants any large group to be bad guys. They make individual villains, but they've intentionally (in the past) tried to make everything various shades of grey. They could have made Demacia the good guys and Noxus the bad guys, but they deliberately muddied that up (and said they did so on purpose).
Off Meta Evan3 votesimo noxus ARE the bad guys. i do not see a single positive aspect of any of the noxian champions that aren't 
but they actively understand that noxus does horrible things. riot may have tried to make it a bit more grey but for me, it has completely failed, especially with 
being added who is literally just an insane murderer aka a lot of the noxian champions. they're responsible for 
being a thing, an undead goliath that wishes for nothing but the ending of life regardless of who it is. The one who commissioned such an abomination is the leader of noxus 
, a man who has no qualms with sending people to their death. Thats just the tip of the ice berg of terrible things that noxus has done. 
, is the way he is due to Noxian cruelty, THE GUY WHO IS LITERALLY THE FINAL BOSS OF LEAGUE OF LEGENDS. meanwhile Demacia has champions like 
who have made it their jobs to either smite evil, protect the innocent, or just overall do the right thing. how literally anyone could see it as grey astounds me.
Dolasaur3 votesIn D&D terms, it's more like Demacia is Lawful and Noxus is Chaotic.
Noxus values strength and outcomes. If you're an orphan on the streets but you're good at using your axe, you can become a general and have a successful, happy life.
Demacia values pride and order. If you're an orphan on the street, you don't beg an aristocrat for food because you have to worry about his retainer bashing your face in to prevent scum like you from touching his lord.
Ichiibaru6 votesIf you're good at using your axe in Demacia, you can become a lumberjack and live a peaceful life. If you beg on the streets of Noxus, you'll get killed.
Off Meta Evan2 votesBut Demacia is never represented like that tho. like noxus isn't just chaotic anymore, it USED to be if you look at champions like who truly believe that strength and power should be recognized but that isn't really the ideals of noxus anymore. 
and have tainted that idea with how brutal and murderous they are. You can believe in strength and self preservation, sure. But when your killing tons of people and literally just bathing in the blood of everyone around you, something is horribly wrong. People try to say "OH DEMACIA ARE SUPER ONLY ABOUT THEMSELVES AND FUCKED UP." But the champions qoutes don't match that at all : WE FIGHT FOR THOSE WHO CANNOT! : life is sometimes worth dying for. 
: to protect. they very clearly value innocence and life. Yes they have pride and a strict "don't retreat/don't fuck up" policy but i view that as them simply pushing everyone to be their best, like a father motivating a son. 
"today is a good day to die!" "Be bold, be just!" : "how demacian of you! 
: "Demacia needs heroes." They're trying to be the best humanity has to offer, morally and physically. The difference can be seen very clearly in the yordles that represent their factions. - a cute, determined girl that just wants to do the right thing and is extremely humble. - a deranged paranoid psychopath that kills everyone and everything he can because he's fucking insane.
Dolasaur1 votes"today is a good day to die!" - Showing a lack of understanding of the responsibility he has to his people. If his dad dies tomorrow, he's king. And he doesn't know the value of his own life, or the instability his death could cause. His country supports this. Not necessarily evil if no one's ever pointed out how stupid it is to have your prince in a place where he could easily get abducted and then impersonated by a magician from a rival power. Except that sort of happened. Meaning that, assuming J4's VO isn't just outdated lorewise, he values his personal pride over the wellbeing of his nation.
Yes they have pride and a strict "don't retreat/don't fuck up" policy but i view that as them simply pushing everyone to be their best, like a father motivating a son."
and
"life is sometimes worth dying for." - Are you referencing old Taric lore? I'm not familiar with it. But I do know that his new lore paints a different picture of Demacia:
The young warrior was drawn instead to the fragile wonders that give life meaning, not endless brutish contests for flag or crown.
This was a potentially treasonous philosophy, especially for one of Taric's standing and role within the Demacian military hierarchy
You want to celebrate life rather than conquer your neighbors for glory? Well, we're going to give you "Demotion after demotion"
After his squad dies:
Taric was stripped of his rank and sentenced by Garen to endure 'the Crown of Stone', a ceremony that demanded a dishonored soldier ascend Mount Targon, known to all as a death sentence, as few mortals had ever survived the climb.
So Demacian military didn't train Taric or his soldiers that they should have guards at night keeping watch. They punish Taric for the result, and the punishment is public shaming, torture, and presumably death. That's not reformative. That sounds like the sort of punishment that might be deserved by treasonous minister that causes a few thousand deaths. Not the punishment you give to someone who failed on an intentionally trivial duty because of the ineptitude of the soldiers he was sworn to lead.
Going back to your impression of the benevolent father, I disagree. It's more like a father telling his son that cheerleading is for sissies and that the son has to join the football team.
I wasn't saying all of Demacia was evil or anything. I'm not even saying that Demacia's shade of grey is the same tint as Noxus's, though the D&D reference probably clouded that. Just that they are both grey.
Off Meta Evan3 votesthe wonders of life i view as him just simply being lazy. To me that shows that he's like just drinking or having sex while he SHOULD be doing his job. Keep in mind he is in a military that is under constant fighting with another equally as powerful nation. dudes gotta pull his weight for his country, he can leave or just not be in the military but if he's gonna stick around while being in said military he's gotta do his job. his punishment was that due to him dicking around and not following orders that he should be. Thats why it enraged garen so much that he wasn't living up to his potiential, that he wasn't being the hero Garen knew he could be.
as for J4, i never bought the LB theory and i also don't view him as being irresponsible. he's a champion in the league of legends he has to accept the fact that he could die at literally any moment. and in the new lore, again, he's in the middle of a war against another super power, he could be killed in a second. He's inspiring his comrades and telling them that they should be unafraid of dying. Even if it is him being irresponsible, he's still like, what, 25? he's around garens age so like 25-29. i think we have ALL done some stupid irresponsible stuff around that time.
Dolasaur1 votesthe wonders of life i view as him just simply being lazy. To me that shows that he's like just drinking or having sex while he SHOULD be doing his job.
Different from my interpretation, but I can accept it. The problem is the word "treasonous". Not "insubordination", not "frowned upon", not "you won't be able to get a good job", but a word that implies exile or death. The wiki page (not sure about its source) mentions that the few whispers of political dissent that do exist come from the outskirts of the nation, implying that there is no freedom of expression for things like what you mentioned.
his punishment was that due to him dicking around and not following orders that he should be.
He was in charge of that outpost. If simply leaving to take a walk around is worth that punishment, then it speaks for itself that Demacia is a barbaric country. If Taric was strong enough that the voidspawn would fail to kill him in his sleep, and then he'd wake up and kill them all on his own, there was no point in sending soldiers along with him.
If you're not doing your job, your punishment should be getting removed from your position, not torture and death. Taric's lore at least doesn't mention Garen getting the Crown of Stone as punishment for his role in letting an incompetent (as a military leader) stay in the military due to personal reasons. Garen punishes Taric, but no one punishes Garen. Demacia is perfectly happy with this (assumed due to the lore not saying any significant backlash hit Garen due to his favoritism). That's not Good.
Even if it is him being irresponsible, he's still like, what, 25? he's around garens age so like 25-29. i think we have ALL done some stupid irresponsible stuff around that time.
He should have had a best-in-the-world education for a non-scholar. His father should have legions of advisers with a wealth of experience and knowledge about the thousands of years of political history on Runeterra.
The difference between us doing stupid things and J4 doing stupid things is that he's the crown prince of a bloodline monarchy. This isn't an elected position where the people that don't do stupid things (or do fewer of them, or are better at covering them up) rise to power. The country is stuck with him.
Off Meta Evan3 votesi suppose its simply a matter of interpretation. i see taric as getting punished NOT because he was expected to win that fight, but because he let his squad down. He was the commanding officer and he wasn't their for his men. If he had simply survived the fight, and THEN got punished i could see it.
as for J4, this is a man who slays dragons, a man who can cause the earth to bend and break from a jump. He's gonna be a little cocky, add on to the fact that Demacian kings probably need to be warrior kings so it makes sense why he's so brash and wreckless. Add on to the fact that his lines were from the old cannon where he was a champion in the league and it makes a lot of sense why he's so ready to fight and be in the thick of it.
Ichiibaru3 votes
"Stay positive!"
"VIOLENCE SOLVES EVERYTHING"
...yeah, I'll stick with Demacia, thank you very much.
Ralanr2 votesHey, Sion's going through some rough shit. Being forcibly resurrected does that to you.
Off Meta Evan1 votesYou right, but still even when he was human, he was still a cold blooded killer.
Ralanr1 votesAll we know about his human days was that he killed Jarvan the first, was a loyal supporter to Boram and a friend.
That's it.
Off Meta Evan1 votesexactly he killed a jarvan, therefore he's the worst... i'm not biased lol wut, i don't have mastery 6 j4 and mastery 7 garen. >.> <.< plz don't look at my match history.
deceptopus15 votesCompletely throws orianna's characterization in the dustbin, makes viktor look like a chump. Piltover's a small group of characters to manage with next to no outside relationships to finagle. How did they manage to screw the pooch here so badly?
Sraeg20135 votesThe Butterfly Effect of the removal of the Institute of War.
Riot already passed the line of killing the core story element. What's stopping them from killing the rest of the story? Nothing.
333lom11 votesGuys, I'm close to loosing my mind. Do I start a plea thread again? They can say "oh it's just Jayce's and Orianna's lore" but I think this has overstepped every single line.
The Anagram King12 votesHeimer gets the arm; Jayce gets the ideals; Orianna gets the Evolution.
The only thing Vik has left is his motivations and intriguing character design.
We know his motivations have been flushed. And when all that's left is to wait for the nail in the coffin, I can't say I'm pumped to read what his lore might look like.
VIKTOR TEAM ASSEMBLE
Malicious Metal3 votesI main Mordekaiser but jesus does the whole Viktor stuff aggravate me. Like, I know it's all highly subjective because it's opinionated and all but stuff that outright invalidates his own Lore and what he stands for?
I just hope that the lore Piece we're getting more than makes up for all this.
A Superb Villain3 votesHonestly, I would wait until Viktor's lore is actually released. We've made our position clear on the matter multiple times, clearly explaining our expectations and framing them in concise arguments supported by evidence from text. Our response was so immediate and unanimous a member of the Narrative Team stepped out to offer some level of clarification. It would be a monumental failure for Riot to misunderstand or misinterpret our efforts after years of commentary on our part that goes all the way back to Jayce's release.
Everything we've read thus far is too on the nose of what we do not want for Viktor, and because of its exact nature I feel it is a very elaborate troll intended to paint Viktor in the worst possible light without directly involving him, much to fans' horror; Viktor is not associated with the Glorious Evolved and they make no mention of him despite everything they aspire to suggesting otherwise, and Jayce's lore has a serious case of unreliable narrator.
333lom2 votesI don't know, man. We never got assurance that Viktor will not be written as a villain. Also, there are two other problems:
Orianna's new lore certainly isn't written as some fabrication. As you've said, this steps on Viktor's domain too much and literally steals his own Evolution from him.
The other thing is that, it wouldn't be fair towards Jayce's character, of all his lore was a fabrication!
Scoroct3 votesYeah the whole ignore free will thing is reaaaaallly grinding my gears. idk man. Orianna's lore was awesome but if it isnt revealed Viktor already knows how to replace the human body then her lore steps over his entire goal. Hell Camille was already doing that a bit (as far as I know they are the only 2 with hextech hearts).
ModKnightsKemplar5 votesI see more Viktor complaints in this thread... but consider the following: there's a really interesting story hook there where there wasn't one before.
What would Viktor do if he met/knew about Orianna? This is fun new ground for LoL, imo. I get that Viktor's fans are upset that he's changing, but the addition of so much complexity to the overall narrative is amazing to me. I think it's really great to add those sorts of complexities to the world, and I'm excited to see where they go next.
I guess the main difference between me and Viktor lovers is that I can't get emotionally invested in the character direction for someone else's story. I want to see where it goes before I judge. And especially in Riot's case, where the main motivation is to drive interactions between interesting characters, I think this is a net good.
A Superb Villain4 votesI have always believed the connection between Orianna and Viktor carried the possibility of complex ideas and delicate questions on the nature of humanity as our understanding of it evolves. I have been such a firm believer in it, that I actually wrote a lengthy ramble discussing how their interaction could generate extremely thought-provoking introspection, inviting readers to give greater thought on how they define themselves:
My only quandary, excluding the whole "free-will is overrated" angle, is Viktor was intended to be the first augmented human of Runeterra, the first to espouse the benefits of mechanical prosthetics and brain/computer integration. His end goal was to remove as much organic material from his form as physically possible and Orianna completely blew past him, within a year. A little girl working in her dad's garage surpassed Viktor, and that wasn't even her intent.
Most people are upset because the changes add nothing, they are change for the sake of change, with some alterations actually being detrimental.
Over Innsmouth3 votesThe difference is that Orianna is an imitation of a pre-existing form, and strives to regain humanity. Viktor view humanity as a shackle, and wants to obtain new form and function with technology (such as his third arm).
It's what makes him extra-Glorious after all.
333lom15 votesThat was the old lore..
Sraeg201310 votesExcept now Orianna is what Viktor wanted to become for years.
A human made fully mechanical.
Fuck retcons, man. Fuck retcons.
Over Innsmouth3 votesThe way I saw it, Viktor's goal was more than just turning a human metal. For someone with his talent, it probably would be childs play to take a human brain and put it into a machine.
What Viktor wants is to do eliminate "the evils of free will", a better humanity is one without strife caused by dissent, and dissent in Viktor's eyes is first and foremost caused by will. Orianna - the new one - definitely has free will.
Sraeg20131 votesNot free will, but emotions which cloud better judgement like anger, resentment, which he himself has suffered from.
AcidTheWarlock1 votesBut what is free will without emotions?
50000000000000001 votesPure logic, I assume. You could determine the best courses of action without being affected by emotions.
AcidTheWarlock1 votesBut that makes you a thinking machine. You don't choose, you do the best.
50000000000000003 votesNot sure why that's not considered choosing, but basically yes.
Ultîma1 votesExactly what came to my mind as well. Orianna is a human who turned herself into a machine to survive an illness, and trying to retain her humanity. Viktor wants to evolve humans using machine for reasons that are not fully explained yet. Completely different ideologies at play here, and I'm a little sad that people are saying ''lol viktor isn't the first'' because the only parallel between those stories is the use of machinery for bodily augmentation.
TyrekGoldenspear2 votesTechnically her father beat Viktor. :^)
A Superb Villain5 votesThe story seems like Orianna had a greater hand in making what she is now. Hell, she even invented The Ball, which was her father's creation in the original lore.
TyrekGoldenspear2 votesWell her father started the job.
She finished it.
Together they beat Viktor. :D
Or maybe not, we don't know when her transformation takes place in the timeline.
They moved to Zaun, so perhaps her father was inspired by another?
