Jaredan, I feel like I deserve some kind of explanation

Seraphic Chicken·Sep 7, 2017·9 votes·4,861 views

Six months ago, I made a rather long post here excitedly talking about the possibility that Lux might be gay, putting a lot of effort into explaining the reasons I thought this might be the case, talking about how I hope that this is the case, while also admitting that I don't have high expectations of a company that had until that point only cracked jokes about certain characters being gay, or only made side characters that aren't relevant to the game in any way gay.

You responded on that post to say, "And I hope we can exceed the understandable expectations you mention. I'm pretty confident we can."

Well, it's been 6 months, and with the release of this Star Guardian story, you have not only failed to exceed my expectations, but you slam dunked them in the trash. Obviously I'm crushed that this story is pushing Lux/Ez so hard, and I feel like I was purposefully baited into being excited for something that was never going to happen. Because of that I have several questions for you:

Why get my hopes up at all if this was what it was leading up to?
Why not just be honest and realistic about it and tell me to expect nothing?
Why even bother going out of your way to retcon the Lux/Ez thing and even make a voice line about it if you were just going to start pushing it again?What on earth was the point of all that?? There was a really good opportunity here and it was squandered to repeat the exact same thing that you had just retconned.

This sucks, dude. It feels like you lied to my face. This makes me feel really, really bad and I don't understand why you did that. Please help me make sense of it. I'm tired of being strung along by empty promises that culminate in nothing.

47 Comments

RiotRiotJaredanSep 7, 201722 votes

Hi Dolljointed, As has been mentioned elsewhere, SG Lux is not Lux. 'Prime Runeterra' Lux has had no change in the portrayal of her sexuality, whatever that may be.

I'm very sorry you feel I lied to you, it was certainly not my intent.

When I responded to your original post, it was in regard to exceeding the expectations that have been set previously in handling the topic of sexuality in League's stories. I still believe we will do much better than we have previously, though that in itself isn't a promise to make Lux herself gay.

I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression, it was in no way meant to be malicious or deceptive.

To be clear, what I mean is this: we are aware of a lack of representation of LGBTQIA in previous stories and characters. Many of us at Riot fit into one or more of the letters in the aforementioned acronym.

There are reasons why I can't go any further in my explanation of things specific to content, which sucks, I know, but it's one of the pitfalls of the conversation.

I wanted to respond to you to say we hear you, to give you encouragement that we didn't take gender/sexuality issues lightly, and that I have complete belief that we will be demonstrating that through content. However, there are things that I couldn't, and still can't go into due to responsibilities to product teams, etc.

I did not intend to specifically imply that Lux is lesbian, and if I did so, I apologize.

What I wanted to state is that we will do a better job in expressing the many colors of the rainbow through stories and characters as we move forward. I still believe that.

KillaburnSep 7, 20176 votes

pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee don't make lux gay. i'll riot cause she's my waifu. also im an Ez/lux shipper and you guys destroyed that with just only 1 quote but that didn't get my hopes down cause maybe lux was just joking and please don't go to with lgbt route for lux. i'm ok if its just the SG lux being lesbian/bisexual but please not the canon lux.

#BringLuxAndEzraelAgainInTheCanonLore

TortferngatrSep 10, 20171 votes

To be completely honest, if Star Guardian Ezreal is trans that would let SGL be gay and still let the Ezreal/Lux pairing work.

Seraphic ChickenSep 7, 20175 votes

Thanks for your response.

I would like to ask you to consider that it would be incredibly messed up to take a character whose lore you have written to be an allegory for being closeted, complete with conversion therapy and the fear of being found out and everything else that comes with it, and make her straight. I personally would consider that to be taking those issues pretty lightly. But I mean, you've already taken a character whose entire design references Madoka and gotten her involved with a boy, so I don't know how far you're willing to take that.

How is this development supposed to jive with her voice line? It would seem to make no sense. I mean it still triggers with her SG skin, right?

Also, in the 6 months since I made that post the only thing you've done is stick Tamara, your one(1) gay character, into a few panels of a comic featuring a splash page of Darius having sex with a woman. I would really like to believe that you are making an effort but I feel like this is a pretty bad result after half a year. Good will can only last for so long.

HellioningSep 7, 201716 votes

Not every x-man is gay, and that's even more obviously a metaphor for gay rights. Just because Riot's using a metaphor doesn't mean that the metaphor has to be literally true too, you know? And just because Lux's design references Madoka doesn't mean she has to BE Madoka, right? Plus, bisexual people exist!

Because they didn't have Star Guardian Ezreal in mind when they made up that voice line. All that voiceline is was a reference to their possible relationship in the previous canon, which makes no sense in the retconned Runeterra. Likewise, that's all that Ezreal's connection with Lux in the Star Guardian story was; just a reference to a previous story.

I understand that you're upset there isn't an outwardly LGBT champion. I am too. But it doesn't specifically have to be Lux, and I think that your reasoning to think it has to be Lux is suspect.

Seraphic ChickenSep 7, 20174 votes

X-men was created in 1963, I think we can shoot a little higher than "metaphor".

Also there is a link in my op to another thread I made that describes my reasoning in far more detail than I am prepared to repeat here, with a followup post in the thread when someone asks me to explain further.

HellioningSep 7, 20178 votes

I read your thread. Both back when it was originally posted and again when I got into this thread. You certainly made a compelling argument as to why Lux could be gay, but that's a different thing from her actually being gay.

Plus, at no point in that thread did you discuss Madoka at all in that thread.

PlacentasSep 7, 20172 votes

^^^ Yo this.

midnight oil24Sep 7, 20172 votes

The main guy in Janna's story is also gay, btw.

But yeah, they did make her seem like an allegory for it. While I personally hope she winds up somewhere on the LGBT spectrum (bi and pan still exist, remember), if she doesn't I think that ultimately that was Riot's choice and just something we'll have to live with.

Warlord DienekesSep 7, 20173 votes

Alright just a random note here. I am all for having non-straight characters in the game. I'm all for gay rights. Hell, you could make my main Atreus gay or bi. That'd be the closest thing to going back to his Spartan roots Riot has done. I mean I would still hate what you did to him, but I don't think I'll ever forgive that space parasite crap. Shame.

Anyway my point.

Anyone else think the acronym LGBTQIA is getting out of hand? I thought acronyms were supposed to be short and quick.

midnight oil24Sep 7, 20174 votes

I'm in the A portion of that and even i feel it's gotten too long.

PlacentasSep 7, 20172 votes

It's meant to be inclusive. 7 letters compared to the 35+ if you spell it all out, so no, not "out of hand".

Warlord DienekesSep 7, 20172 votes

Sure but it's not so much about inclusivity as ergonomics at this point. There are several overlapping terms.

Take L, lesbian. That means female identifying person who is homosexual

And G, gay. That's a person who is homosexual.

One already includes the other. Even if you subscribe to the notion gay just means male. You're wrong first of all. But beyond that there is indisputably a catch all term for both: homosexual. You could remove G and L and replace them with H.

Then there's the Q, queer is already a catch-all term for a non-cisgendered individual. It covers everything else on the list except arguably transsexual and intersexual. And there are many who thinks it covers those two as well.

That's just adding unnecessary complexity. I hate that. Efficiency in all things. Now I'm not saying we should just call everyone queers. Mostly because of my upbringing that was a pretty condescending word and unless I got the go ahead that it was now somehow acceptable I wouldn't use it. But that's more a tangential point that this can be cleaned up. Just adding every new term to the back end of the acronym will eventually just lead to it becoming unmanageable and difficult to memorize for those not a part of the movement. That's the exact opposite of what we should be trying to do.

KoriosSep 7, 20172 votes

we are aware of a lack of representation of LGBTQIA in previous stories and characters

Wait what? What about Tamara or the girl from the Janna story? I'm not homophobic or something, but you have done a great job representing these characters without shoving it in our throats like: "OH LOOK SHE IS GAYYY."

I love your guys love and passion for the champions' visuals, stories and personalities, so I want their arks to continue based on whatever you think is best for them and not for the political correctness...

HellioningSep 8, 20172 votes

I mean. You've already said the problem: The two people you could come up with are random one-shots, not champions we can play as.

KoriosSep 8, 20171 votes

Riot doesn't even have enough straight confirmed couples...(I can think 2 right now) and there are over 130 champions....making a LGBTQ champ is a difficult step because sadly sigh not all countries view these people the same way...

SolideusSep 7, 20172 votes

Don't retcon away EzrealxLux just to meet some quota for more gay female champs. The pairing has been part of the game for years and years both among fans and teased countless times in official communications; retconned "lesbian Lux" has barely had a shadow of a hint of a thematic analogue in ONE story.

Stick with Vi and Caitlyn for representation, those have an actual shipping history and a history with the fans, you know.

Lady FacelessSep 7, 20173 votes

Hello Jaredan,

first, thank you for giving a statment.

I'm truly not talking for everyone, but the biggest problem is not the lack of a LGBTIAQ character (it still hurts, tho), but the way you joke about any possiblity about it / the way you portrait them.

I can understand there are reason we still have no open LGBTIAQ champion, since there will be probably some countries who gonna censur it (Russia, I look at you).

But honest, the way you guys treat possible LGBTIAQ champions is incredible unapproval.

Lets talk Jhin. In his AMA you guys really made clear he doesn't understand love/attraction like a normal human being, which means you could see him as aro/ace. But let's be honest - this leaves an incedrible bad aftertaste in my mouth. I'm aro/ace myself and I would love to get some representation. I get a incredible well-written psychopathic serial killer with some OCD. Should I see this as a good representation for a LGBTIAQ champion? You literally saying me, that the first champion you literally see as non-straight is an insane serial killer. Right...

That doesn't mean every LGBTIAQ champion has to be a good person. Make LGBTIAQ villains, I would love to read about them, but honest it can't be we have one (1) LGBTIAQ champion and he is literally a crazy serial killer. I mean, if we had 5 LGBTIAQ champion and one of them is Jhin, that would be great. But for now? It feels like a slap in my face.

Not considere, you guys never confirmed him as aro/ace. I mean, maybe he does not feel any attraction 'cause he is an psychopath? But in this case, say it so. CALL THE THINGS BY THEIR NAMES. We suffer more by getting such half-information as by getting none.

Another case, Kayn.

I think we all stumble about this answer.

https://imgur.com/a/iFpGH

Ofc, we should have known this was a joke, but this was an AMA. People wanted some answer, we got this one.

People talked about this here in the boards and lets say so... the discussion had to be closed.

Every Riotler could have step in there and said that Daniel only did a joke. Nobody did.

Later, in some other theard, some Riotler actually stated Daniel was joking.

Someone in that theard actually said it fitting.

Homosexuality being played for laughs again? Yup, I can resume hating the world, glad to see nothing has changed.

I don't even know. How can I expect you guys handling a LGBTIAQ champion, if Kayns AMA literally shows you have no tact about this topic?

TL;DR: Start calling things by their names, stop giving half-information and for the love of god be more tactful about this topic. Having no LGBTIAQ champion is one thing, but the way you make fun of LGBTIAQ is just inacceptable.

RaxistaichoSep 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

To be clear, what I mean is this: we are aware of a lack of representation of LGBTQIA in previous stories and characters. Many of us at Riot fit into one or more of the letters in the aforementioned acronym.

You don't have any atheists either, please get on that :( I wanna see a champion scientifically doubt whether Bard or Kindred exists.

Chromatic EagleSep 7, 20173 votes

I'm not saying you guys have to, or that you should to fill a quota, but don't you think it's kind of messed up that we don't have a non-straight character yet, but we have multiple characters who are blatantly straight? Xayah and Rakan almost feels like a slap with how open they are about their relationship.

Malicious MetalSep 7, 201714 votes

Sorry if I come off as an ass but after seeing countless of these kinds of threads wanting X character be LGBT or Riot releasing one just to have one in league's roster I want to know:

Why is that important? I see a lot people use the same argument of wanting to relate to a certain character and them being unable because they don't have the same sexual orientation than them. Isn't relating to character traits and vices and virtues easier and overall more genuine than their choice of romantic interest?

I for once couldn't care less who the champions I play would want to have a relationship with as long as they're still the characters I can relate to by HOW they act and what their personalities are.

Back on topic though: Riot has stated on numerous occasions that they try not to just go and say X champion is gay/lesbian but would rather keep it open to interpretation, or better, not even make it a big fucking deal.

Seraphic ChickenSep 7, 20174 votes

For someone who claims to not care you seem pretty invested in characters not being gay tbh... especially in a game that includes Xayah and Rakan being as obnoxious as possible. Really makes you think.

Malicious MetalSep 7, 20177 votes

How am I invested in someone not being gay? Hell, make Mordekaiser homosexual for all I care, I can still relate to him as a character.

And I detest Xayah and Rakan. Because they're straight? No, but because I find their personalities repulsive.

TortferngatrSep 7, 20171 votes

Eh, I'm bi and trans and find them adorable (Rakan more for also being strongly implied to have ADHD like I do, though).

DeathBurstSep 7, 20177 votes

I think the best answer to that is, it's important to them, what does it matter why? Why is it important to you that Mordekaiser is full of metal puns and disdain for the livings? I'm pretty sure there are other Morde mains who don't care about the puns and attitude.

I don't care either what's the sexuality of virtual characters in a game, but some people do and well, more power to them, what does it change from your point of view?

TwinkieProSep 7, 20171 votes

There's a difference there though. Mordekaisers personality and image is full of metal and disdain for the living. its who he is as a personality. It wouldn't make sense to dress him in pink.

It's a completely different thing in terms of sexuality. Sexuality does not define a person or character. If they have to be gay for you to relate to them, then your sexuality is too much of your identity. If being gay is the thing that help people relate, then the personality of those people are, quite frankly, shallow.

DeathBurstSep 7, 20173 votes

It's easy to say when you're Hetero, when you're the baseline, the normality, and no one cares about it. When you're always attacked, ridiculed and ostracized because of your sexuality, or your skin color, or whatever, then of course it ends up being a very defining feature of your character, because this is the feature that is the root cause of so much stuff in your life.

It's easy to forget you're "normal". But if you try to forget you're out of the norm, society is here to remind you.

TortferngatrSep 7, 20173 votes

There's also "gender identity relative to how they got assigned at birth" (i.e. trans characters.)

Part of the reason LGBTQ champions would be nice is shared experiences/similarities. It's nice to know that there's a character that's like you in that way when characters like you in that way aren't very common yet--heck, one reason I like Rakan is that he's unabashedly like me in a different way (having ADHD.)

And yeah, I can relate to Diana, Lux, Kalista, Syndra, Illaoi, Taliyah, etc. Heck, Illaoi is my secondary after Karthus. Part of the reason I like her so much is that she takes some of the things I perceive about myself--the fact that I'm tall and have a more masculine frame than I'd like--and turns that into a strength. But it's not quite the same.

Plus, it's possible to incorporate being LGBTQ into the character without being hamfisted. Like..."not-evil alchemist-medic support from Zaun that's implied to have changed their body to match their gender identity (and wants to help everyone reach their potential with chemtech)?" I think that has potential.

ModThe DjinnSep 7, 201711 votes

I can understand your feelings, but I'd like to make two points:

First, the Star Guardian stories aren't necessarily the same as the League continuity. It's another interpretation of those characters, in another setting.

Secondly, there are more sexual orientations than straight or gay. It's entirely possible that, even if that DOES carry over into the standard League lore (which I suspect it does not), Lux doesn't swing just one way.

Malicious MetalSep 7, 201711 votes

Every League champion should be like Taric.

He can appreciate beauty in all its forms!

Seraphic ChickenSep 7, 20174 votes

While you are correct I would like to point out that nothing happens in a vacuum and I don't understand why they would be pushing it again despite retconning it. How is this supposed to jive with Lux's voiceline that was clearly meant to sink the ship?

ModThe DjinnSep 7, 20174 votes

{quoted}

While you are correct I would like to point out that nothing happens in a vacuum and I don't understand why they would be pushing it again despite retconning it. How is this supposed to jive with Lux's voiceline that was clearly meant to sink the ship?

It's entirely possible that this is to appease those who loved the pairing, while the normal Lux in the normal continuity intentionally killed that pairing off. Having divergent storylines would let Riot appeal to multiple player bases. I'd imagine even without Riot there are whose who like the pairing and those who don't, and it's possible that the authors of these stories have somewhat free reign within the respective storylines they write.

But, frankly, I'm just guessing. :)

KuroCaliberSep 7, 20173 votes

Line wasn't meant to sink the ship, only to imply it wasn't in progress at the time. "We haven't even met" doesn't imply that they never will, only jives with the idea of Demacia's isolationism. Now that Lux is traveling outside of Demacia she could still meet Ezreal, but unlike old lore, it's only as headcannon as the rest of the ships. Basically moved down from confirmed -> possible.

ModWulf HelhammerSep 7, 20173 votes

It's also a joke/jab at the old lore. As the League/IoW is no longer a thing in the actual story, there would no reason for them to have met

NaalithSep 7, 20175 votes

Star Guardian Lux and normal Lux don't exist in the same universe and are completely separate entities. Sure, they share some similar characteristics, but in the current lore Lux and Ezreal don't even know each other.

And onto a broader point, I honestly think the reason Riot can't come out and outright talk about champion sexualities (other than just straight) has to do with other regions. I'm sure that in some of the regions that LoL is played in it is either illegal or would make the game have a higher rating, maybe putting taxes on it or something? I've noticed Riot likes to tiptoe around the issue and I'm sure it's not because they don't want to make an openly gay/bi/whatever character, they probably just can't or they'll get hit with a sledgehammer in international sales. Take Taric for example. It was super obvious old Taric was probably gay, the new reworked Taric is probably closer to a Pansexual but Riot is always like "well, you know, wink wink but we can neither confirm nor deny these allegations." So that's probably why.

Just keep in mind that Lux and Ezreal has been a fan favorite ship since basically the beginning of this game and while they haven't met in the current lore, Riot saw a window to kind of make that ship come true in an unofficial sense so they did. Real Lux might still very well be gay, maybe we'll find it in 43 years when she shows up in another lore story. :)

Seraphic ChickenSep 7, 20172 votes

Blizzard did it. Blizzard, who is probably the single worst company in the industry with regards to issues like racism, misogyny, and homophobia, made the face of one of their main games a lesbian. There's no excuse honestly.

DeathBurstSep 7, 20173 votes

Blizzard, the single worst company? I'm sorry, do we need to talk about that Hitman game with SM nuns? Because I'd prefer to avoid that, if I had a choice...

Blizzard is far and above the average standard of the industry. Which does not mean much, because the industry as a whole is terrible, so above "terrible" may not be very good. But calling Blizzard "the worst" is downright ridiculous...

Seraphic ChickenSep 7, 20173 votes

Blizzard regularly had staff members in the forums mocking people who had any complaints about the story and the way they treated their female characters and things like that... also they can't let go of their racist as hell witch doctor character and stick him or references to him in every single one of their games... I feel like that's pretty bad.

And I was referring to like... major developers, not smaller ones. There's plenty of trash to pick over there

DeathBurstSep 7, 20173 votes

I'm not saying Blizz is perfect, I'm saying they're not (and by far, so far) the worst. And "major developers"? Hitman is a Square Enix game... You can look at EA too, if you want some bad examples of what not to do, and I wouldn't call EA a "small developer" either.

I understand where you come from, and it's important to call Blizz out on their bullshit (because that's how they'll progress), but with such wild overstatements you just give people an easy way to dismiss you, as if they needed any help for that.

HellioningSep 7, 20171 votes

No, Blizz isn't any worse than a lot of companies in that regard, especially homophobia.

KuroCaliberSep 7, 20171 votes

Blizzard isn't owned by a company that is based in a region that homosexuality is actively discriminated against. You need to realize that other countries play this game outside of America. Blizzard is completely American and therefore development of such content can't be halted internally like it can be by Tencent.

midnight oil24Sep 7, 20173 votes

I do wish that they weren't pushing it in this skin line (or at all, really). Ez makes me really uncomfortable in all his forms, and Lux x Jinx in star guardian is pretty good. I hope that something happens that subverts expectations, like maybe Lux shooting down Ez.

All I can hope for is that Lux in-canon is different. And like Djinn said, there's more than just straight and gay.

Sorry that I couldn't give you the answer you wanted.

łnśaneSep 7, 20173 votes

Since when did league become tumblr?

Poro PrincessSep 7, 20173 votes

I'm all for characters being gay, even Lux now that her Ezreal relationship was removed. But I really think op is overreacting quite a bit.

I dont think their sexual orientation matters in any way. Its only something you should know if itis important for the development of the character. You can easily have gay situations appear on straight characters too. It's a way to embellish writing, adding deeper content that most people can relate to. Being gay you likely can relate to Lux since she had to hide from everyone out of fear. That doesnt mean Lux has to be gay or bisexual or anything. It's there to add depth to the story, and it makes it so people who have been in that situation connect emotionally with the character.

I dont want to see a gay, lesbian, transgender, etc champion unless those characteristics made them who they are. Otherwise it's just like knowing someone's exact age or shoe size. Why do you care? (Though i do care a bit about age. I always guessed Lux was like 25, Garen 30, Katarina 28, Cass 26, Talon 25, etc - but those are in my head. You want to headcannon lesbian Lux? Go for it)

MuranodoSep 7, 20171 votes

As The Djinn and MidnightOil24 described, there's also different and broader orientations that are feasible---Riot's lore is hardly definitive and often just a blip in an individual character's timeline. And the particular story-line released only hinted at the general relationship specifics. All-in-all, it's hard to discern anything even about SG Lux's orientation besides that she's flattered by the attention. Which, if you consider, her motivations throughout the story about bringing everyone together by her feeling of necessity---it's not surprising she would respond to the first non-dismissive attention she got after feeling like she was failing as a leader.

If you consider this on a theoretical timeline, there's certainly plenty of narrative space for Riot to do what they want. But as with any lore development, it's a team effort with different opinions and they are always looking for the best fit. Regardless, I've certainly seen enough anime where emotional attachments and twists pop-up in unexpected ways off veiled comments such as those that could have been said by Jinx or Ahri, for instance, to Lux.

NylisaSep 7, 20171 votes

Hey Dolljointed, i remember your post and i also left a comment there if you remember.

as Jaredan mentioned and i said in another topic and some others mentioned it here, this is starguardian lux , i like to see this as an alternative universe lux which is not the same as prime runeterra lux.

to be honest i cant care much about THIS lux because its not the one i come to know and like, i love lux becuase of who she is in her main lore which most of her traits are missing in SG story, first thing that cross my mind everytime i think of lux is that she is a normal girl with an extraordinary gift and she lives in a place that she cant be herself. when i look at SG lux she is flying around shooting colorful lights so openly...thats not my lux...no way!

she can be in relationship with anyone in an alternative universe but keep in mind that everything is still as it was for Prime lux in her original lore :)

Zero DriveSep 11, 20171 votes

I prefer my relationships ambiguous. Riot does not create nearly enough lore for me to invest in a relationship, I'd starve (metaphorically, im a fat freak) waiting to see some development. You may be overeacting though.. I mean I was annoyed with this game when I started playing and realized there wasn't a single black champion. I was also pissed when they finally released said champion.. and he used hand guns. Also is a feelsbadman when the closest I have to a gay character is a super flamboyant Taric who reinforces stereotypes I cannot relate to. All in all though, I think Riot is at their best when they allude to the possibility of champions having feelings for one another instead of outright shipping them. I'll use my favorite champ, Ekko, as an example.

Ekko has hintings of some kind of romantic relationship with: Janna - Just uses a pretty standard conversation breaker that many men use to start a convo. Also alludes to her weather abilities. Jinx - Claims he had a crush until she started talking to the guns. May just be acknowledging her mental instability as opposed to any actual feelings. Taliyah - Lastly Taliyah is the one with the romantic reference, asking if the earth moved for Ekko too. Self explanatory but also alluding to her earth bending abilities.

None of these are concrete, but they're enough to get a few lore invested people to ship their favorites. All remain valid so long as riot keeps their mouth shut. That's what they should do in my opinion. Also Ekko x Arjuna cause it makes more sense than the above three. :)