If Ahri is Vastayan, this may be why she is stealing souls.

KuroCaliber··10 votes·3,603 views
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ohvOC0q7Ucs/WOKN7p1WmxI/AAAAAAAAhKs/4tEXfKPf33QroaglOcqrskhwcjPt-CMkwCLcB/s320/image%2B%252811%2529.png

So in the text introducing Vastayan, Mr. Santangelo stumbles across Ahri. While the only details in this encounter demonstrate that he was thinking with the wrong head, it brings the startling idea that her lore is being retconned. Now I know that Ahri's lore is very dear to her player base, but I feel like what Riot is attempting to do is integrate the legend of the Gumiho into the league universe in a less "copy and paste" manner.

Here's what we know:

Ahri was spotted in the same area where Santangelo saw the other Vastayans. Now this doesn't confirm that she is one, but it would make a lot of sense if she was, given her physical semi-human characteristics. Surely this would rile up some Ahri mains, since her old lore is pretty unique. However it is also vague and detached. Ahri never interacts with anyone from the league universe and as we know, there are a LOT of people/things/concepts to interact with. So let's focus on what makes Ahri, Ahri:

*She has fox tails and ears harkening to her heritage as a pure fox at one point

*She has the ability to seduce men, (and by the look of her fanbase, unintentionally too ;) )

*She steals people "life essence" to fuel her transformation into a full human

*She has a conscience, and understands what her actions do, so she is searching for a better way.

Now if Ahri is Vastayan, what incentive does she have to steal life essence from people? Why does she have the powers she does in the game? The answer is simple and it is given to us immediately following the meeting. The pig-man Shai explains that if a Vastayan's blood is too diluted, they lose the ability to transform between shapes. Now given the method by which Vastayan are born, (which could be magical OR physical), there is no doubt that internal magic is what powers the transformation. What is lost isn't the ability to transform between shapes-that is hereditary and unchanging- what is lacking is the internal magic necessary in doing it.

Due to this, Ahri may have been born as a full fox, retaining that aspect of her lore. Initially unbeknownst to her or not, she possessed an ability to absorb a being's magical power/life energy. In typical humans, this may be their life energy, and in mages, their mana/magic power. As she gains more and more power, Ahri would slowly shed more and more of her fox body until the transformation was complete. However, her joy would come at a harsh price, as it seems that magic users are scarce in this sector of Ionia, and magic permeates the air and nature rather than the body, Ahri must kill to get the necessary power. This is why Shai warned Santangelo about approaching her, he has probably witnessed a similar fate.

As Ahri becomes more an more human, she is hesitant to kill, which is why, perhaps, she did not kill Santangelo when she noticed his presence (which she must have because she left the area). In essence-lol pun- Ahri is the same soul stealing fox lady we know and in my case....tolerate, in yours probably love. Her background is simply has the potential to intertwine with other champions now. This has been Riot's goal in many lore reworks, and they have done a fantastic job of linking champions together.

What are your thoughts?

EDIT: After Spareatick pointed this out to me I realized I had a copy of the story with a typo. The actual story has the diluted Vastayans with the ability to transform. Since this is the case, I can make a conjecture that Ahri is one of the older, purer Vastayans, who suffer from the inablity to use internal magic, and it is instead the fusion of human and shapeshifter abilties that allow the diluted vastayans to control their transformation. In Ahri's case, she is simply unable to transform on her own, and, after watching the new blood transform, longs to be included with humans, and so pursues the transformation by using the life essence of others.

34 Comments

Spareatick2 votes

I very much like the theory but it is actually the vastayans with the diluted blood that can transform

"-then what would happen if that blood were to become extremely diluted through reproductive diaspora? What if, say, one had vastayan blood, but not quite enough to take chimeric, animalian form? What would happen then?

It was then that he stopped sniffing and his eyes widened. He looked at me, smiled, and said, “Well, they’d be able to change their shape, wouldn’t they?” before the bastard turned into a pig and unearthed a silktruffle"

KuroCaliber1 votes

{quoted}

I very much like the theory but it is actually the vastayans with the diluted blood that can transform

"-then what would happen if that blood were to become extremely diluted through reproductive diaspora? What if, say, one had vastayan blood, but not quite enough to take chimeric, animalian form? What would happen then?

It was then that he stopped sniffing and his eyes widened. He looked at me, smiled, and said, “Well, they’d be able to change their shape, wouldn’t they?” before the bastard turned into a pig and unearthed a silktruffle"

Ah rip, after checking a second time it turns out my copy had a typo, in that case then perhaps she is one of the purer Vastayans, which would make sense given that she is old enough for generations of Shai's families to have known. After watching the new blood with their abilities to transform, Ahri longs for the ability to fully fit in as a person too.

Spareatick1 votes

{quoted}

Ah rip, after checking a second time it turns out my copy had a typo, in that case then perhaps she is one of the purer Vastayans, which would make sense given that she is old enough for generations of Shai's families to have known. After watching the new blood with their abilities to transform, Ahri longs for the ability to fully fit in as a person too.

Makes sense to me :). I think her lore is gonna expand on the significance of the pond she was bathing in. In the story Shai said the pond and ahri would be hazardous for eduard's health. Seems odd he would include the pond unless there was more too it.

Popstar Ahri2 votes

lore is getting worse and worse, and now people are going to use this as an excuse to call me a furry for liking her

19348180DEL17 votes

She's not a furry. Rengar is a furry. Ahri just has fox apendages.

LordForrest1 votes

Don't quote me on this, but I believe the term for Ahri is nekomimi.

yay nibbers2 votes

'Nekomimi' specifically refers to cat girls. 'Kemonomimi' is the term you're looking for. It literally means something like "animal ear(s)" ('nekomimi' meaning "cat ear(s)"), but refers to characters like Ahri in general. Animal ears and sometimes tails, usually not much more than that.

LordForrest1 votes

Ok, thanks I knew there was a specific term for that type of character, but I only ever heard Nekomimi. In hindsight it is kinda obvious that it probably isn't the blanket term since neko means cat.

Kukan Seishin1 votes

Kumiho...

19348180DEL11 votes

Kyūbiko (Japanese) and Húlíjīng (Chinese) She is likely inspired by both as a singular entity.

Or possibly... Naruto since the show was still very hot around the time of her preconcepts (though I hope not [nothing against Naruto fans]).

Bottom Laner8 votes

[deleted]

LordForrest4 votes

This is the single greatest definition of how to tell the difference of something I have ever seen. Level 5 made me wheeze from laughing so hard.

TzQGRUST391 votes

Great image, had a chuckle.

Kukan Seishin1 votes

You don't deserve that name >_>

NineTailedMystic2 votes

Ahri never interacts with anyone from the league universe and as we know, there are a LOT of people/things/concepts to interact with.

Does she need to though? In the Stray Fox story, she seemed to be more of the... curious observer type, and a little bit of a watchful protector in a way. Watching over the human village, longing to be part of them. She only even interacted with the Noxians because they attacked her, and she showed no remorse in killing them and taking the humanity "from men who had no use for it".

I don't feel like she would be one to socialize with other important characters in the universe, let alone have any reason to know any of them.

As for Ahri being Vastayan, it would be quite a disappointment imo because she wouldn't feel special anymore. She'd just be a Vastayan and not a mystical nine tailed fox.

KuroCaliber3 votes

As for Ahri being Vastayan, it would be quite a disappointment imo because she wouldn't feel special anymore. She'd just be a Vastayan and not a mystical nine tailed fox.

I mean, that's about as helpful as saying that kassadin is human, he can't possible be special. Just because she is no longer alone doesn't mean she's not special. As far as we know, she's the ONLY fox vastayan, and certainly one of the eldest and purest ones. She's still a 9-tailed fox, she just has more context behind it, instead of "just cuz." Her old lore was riddled with plot holes. Why does she have nine tails? "Just cuz" How did she turn human, "cuz magic" How does she get magic by killing people? "Just cuz" how does her taking life essence bring her closer to being human and not, I dunno, give her a disease or something? "Just cuz." Their biggest success was explaining why a fox became human-like and where she came from. Giving her a people certainly gives more opportunities to characterize her through non-violent interactions.

How long will Ahri stay a watcher? It's because Riot originally brought champions across time and space to summoners rift that it never seems weird that champs never interacted. Now that they all live together, it's a little wrong to keep Ahri in her small corner of the world.

"I don't feel like she would be one to socialize with other important characters in the universe, let alone have any reason to know any of them."

-It's precisely because you feel this way that the old characterization has to move on. Ahri exists at the same time Jhin does, as Sol does, as Wukong does. Hell Wukong is even supposed to be Ahri's friend, what better way for them to meet then through an entire culture? It opens up many windows to improve her character beyond, "fox who turned human because reasons, and she kinda hides from everyone."

NineTailedMystic3 votes

It's because Riot originally brought champions across time and space to summoners rift that it never seems weird that champs never interacted. Now that they all live together, it's a little wrong to keep Ahri in her small corner of the world.

I'm pretty sure the Journal of Justice detailed a lot of champion interactions before the retcon. I don't really think they sat in a locker room waiting to be summoned all day, and in fact, since they are expanding the universe there's less of a reason for Ahri to know other champions. Since there's nothing detailing why these champions fight in Summoner's Rift at the moment and is just there for the sake of the game, there's no reason for her to know the others, unlike the Demacians, Noxians, and Targonians. At most they'd be minor encounters with "The Fox of the Forest" like 'ol Eduard there.

As far as I'm aware, Wukong is only listed as Ahri's friend because when she was released they had to put someone down as her friend and why not have the other Ionian animal-like person who was born from magic be her friend? Despite having no known interaction between them.

Overall, I'm terrified about these lore changes for Ahri. I've been stressing about it since I read it. More than I reasonably should be for a fictional character.

KuroCaliber1 votes

JoJ only detailed very few select interactions. Many champions had individual side stories, not interactions. Demacia and Noxus usually took the forefront in these issues because they had the most issues. JoJ also favored how characters interacted through the IoW because they ordinarily would never meet, as they are from different times. In this universe, they all coexist at the same time, and this new lore about Vastaya is contextualizing it.

Dreamspitter1 votes

{quoted}

How long will Ahri stay a watcher? It's because Riot originally brought champions across time and space to summoners rift that it never seems weird that champs never interacted. Now that they all live together, it's a little wrong to keep Ahri in her small corner of the world.

Watcher? Speaking of which. We need a Watcher champion one of these days, along with more of the Iceborn.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Looks like you put a lot of thought into this. :) nice job.

I suppose in this case Ahri would be the type of Vastayan that can shapeshift, like Nidalee. I suppose Ahri's internal magic is lacking like you said, so she is stuck midway through transformation, which in itself would explain why she's more human than most Vastayan yet not completely fitting into the shapeshifter category.

You think that if Ahri gets enough magic to become fully human she can swap back and forth between fox and human form at will after that? Or do you think she'd run out of magic and have to get more to perform the transformation? My thoughts are that it takes magic to transform and a regular shapshifter has an internal magic that replenishes itself for the transformation, which Ahri lacks.

DragonShea1 votes

I don't care if I get banned for this. But.

[zombie-nunu-hearts]**[zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts] [zombie-nunu-hearts]**[zombie-nunu-hearts]

But in all fairness, going by Shyvana's example. I think that Ahri is trying to deliberately do what the happen to shyvana up to eleven. Shyvana is a full dragon tainted by human essence which made her into a hybrid. Ahri is a fox that wants to become fully human by taking their essence but the more she got, the more she realised it was bad to do so.

Leben Weiss1 votes

Could be possible that Ahri isn't even a vastaya and still be originally a magical fox that is stealing souls to be "like them"? Maybe thats why even the piglike vastaya are cautious with her, they could be her targets too!!

But i REALLY like your theory, sounds very plausible and i like the fact that it still retain that "succubus with a conflicting moral compass" vibe she always had and fit nicely with this new race....in the end i will be happy if we can get more of her with whatever her new lore is and maintain at least the core of her current essence

yay nibbers1 votes

I don't see what making her a vastayan as you propose here changes about her or adds to her character in any meaningful way. If she winds up essentially the same, all you're really doing is changing her label. She isn't the same the way you suggest though. Instead of being an almost-human longing to be a full human but being morally incapable of doing it the only way she knows how, she'd just be some fox creature mindlessly sucking power and accidentally feeling remorseful for it. You basically suggest taking her lore and cutting a chunk of it out. What's the point of that?

I don't see why they can't give her more lore and develop her character without randomly making her vastayan. I think it'd be more interesting with her current character and motivations. The only reason she's just been sitting in a box, so to speak, is because they haven't done anything with her yet.

KuroCaliber1 votes

As far as adding to her character, you're kind of right, in this particular lore piece it doesn't do much. However, the fact that the other Vastayans know her and are wary of her makes it clear she is known to exist by other people. Old Ahri kinda sat in her own corner of the world and no one knew or cared she existed. Now she has a presence in the league universe.

As for accidentally feeling remorseful, that is exactly what happened in Ahri's current lore. She was a pure fox, not an almost-human. The more souls she sucked out, the more human she became, not just physically, but mentally. She "accidentally" developed the morals she uses now, and that is why she is stuck as an almost human for now. She wants to finish becoming a full human, but her newly developed morality prevents it.

What this theory is doing isn't cutting Ahri's current lore, it is contextualizing it within the league universe. Yokai don't exist in league, at least not referred to as yokai. To give Ahri a proper background in Valoran as an ancient Vastayan is actually pretty amazing. She's a part of Valoran now, not some pocket in time and space.

yay nibbers1 votes

All of this can be achieved with her current lore though, which is good and unique. Slapping a 'vastaya' label on her doesn't do anything for her that can't already be done or has been done. The vastayan merchant and other characters can know of her existence without her being a vastayan. Why can't she just be some random oddity that came about of her own will to be a human? She can still be ancient. She can still be this mysterious fox lady prowling the woods at the edges of society, looking in but never getting too close. She can still be more without randomly being given a new label and backstory.

Well over a year ago, Riot announced that they'd be releasing an Ahri statue (which was since canceled to do more work on it) and with it they included a short little story about Ahri's encounter with some Noxians attacking a village she'd been admiring from afar apparently for some time. The page has since been essentially deleted and the story gone, but you can still find it here in this reddit post (LINK).

And as for the 'accidentally remorseful' thing, you completely missed my point. I'll expand on it here to make sure I really drive it home:

Ahri as she currently is has a nice backstory. One with a good bit of nuance and even a bit tragedy to it. In her pursuit of becoming human she develops human emotion and morals and realizes the method she's been using is wrong and that keeping at it will make her a monster in the metaphorical sense rather than the physical. Her struggle then becomes one against her nature, to find a different way to become human. This is even explored in the story I linked above where she makes excuses to take human essence, taking it from a Noxian who she decided "didn't need it" and feeling great pleasure from the essence, but she has to remind herself that if people saw her doing this they'd think her some sort of monster and deep down she'd believe it too. Her ultimate goal when you boil it down is acceptance, something that most people can relate to in some way. Ahri's lore as it is now is great because it's relatable, we can emphasize with her and her plight. It may not be as grand and fantastical as some of the other champions, but it doesn't need to be.

Randomly altering her lore in the way you suggest strips her of all that meaning. Her story stops being the struggle against her nature in the pursuit of living among the humans she so admires. Her story becomes some that of a creature trying to reclaim a power lost to her which just happens to involve killing people because mages just happen to not be around to help her. This is not only boring and a little generic but it's, more importantly, not very relatable. If Ahri is just some creature looking for power, why should she care about killing some humans to get it and why would I even empathize with her? Her struggle to be a normal human girl is what makes her that much more endearing beyond her appearance. Without that, she's just another fox monster.

KuroCaliber1 votes

And you're missing my point.

"If Ahri is just some creature looking for power, why should she care about killing people to get it and why would I even empathize with her?"

But she isn't. She is longing for the ability the newer Vastayans have that is to completely change form, and live amongst humans. She can't do it internally, but she can absorb the power from others. IF life essence works the same as it currently does, Ahri's inital view towards soul stealing would be altered with each human whose essence she took. As her method is more magical and difficult than newer Vastayans, she is affected by the souls of the people she has taken, and has decided against completing the transformation. After all, if she was as heartless as you claim, she would've killed Santangelo but she didn't. She isn't trying to reclaim a power, (I noticed a typo in the original story I read) she never had it. She wants to be human, and initally she is willing to do anything for it. But with each person she killed for her cause, she realizes that for HER being human is more than a physical change like other Vastayans. It was more than LOOKING human that she craved. She, being ancient, probably thought that if she looked human, people would accept her. But after what she has done she understands that there is more to being human than shape. Is that not what the current Ahri is?

yay nibbers1 votes

So you suggest slapping a label on her for the sake of it then? While we're at it, why not slap the 'vastaya' label on all the animal people in League? Kindred, Tahm Kench, Volibear, Fizz, every yordle, Azir, Nasus, Renekton, Warwick, whoever else I missed. I mean sure, they already have their own established lore but that doesn't matter right? I ask again, what would this do for Ahri or allow us to do with her that we can't already? What specifically is wrong with her just being her own thing?

Not to mention how vastaya work and their transformation capabilities is all still purely speculation based on a single vague statement from a pig-man.

KuroCaliber1 votes

You're being hysterical right now. Most of the people you named have clear cohesion with the rest of the champions, at least lore wise. Ahri is on her own, and in a universe where no one is unknown to everyone, this is a very bad thing. Kindred is certainly not even what we assume them to look like.
They are a concept given form by people through mythos. Tahm is a Demon, is probably your best argument,a s he has no interaction with anyone. Yordles are already mentioned as a separate race, and even they have been altered at one point (remember meglings?). I already have a post on WW's relation to Vastayans and before you attack me for it, read it first. Azir, Nasus Renekton are given those forms through a transformation, they were not born that way. Furthermore, only renekton shows signs of a vastaya like being. (Nasus has only the head of an animal, and Azir's seem to be only armor shaped like a bird.

Furthermore, this is still speculation. And even though it is, "established" lore has been remade several times to add better cohesion to the universe.

yay nibbers1 votes

First, I'm not being "hysterical," I'm using hyperbole to make make a point. All those champs have their own identities and their own lore. Why can other champions have their own unique origins, some extremely vague like Tahm Kench or Rammus, but not Ahri?

In regards to Ahri not "hav[ing] clear cohesion with the rest of the champions" and being "in a universe where no one is unknown to everyone." Did you even read her current lore on her Universe page? You only think she lives in her own universe because you want to believe that, but nothing about her current bio on the Universe page suggests that and a lost story about her from Riot themselves actually has her interacting with the people of the world. (alternate wiki link) You only think she isn't "integrated" into the world because she doesn't have any easily visible stories/lore where she interacts with specific characters in the universe, which is just ridiculous. She's supposed to be mysterious. She's supposed to have little to no interaction with others, she actively avoids it. Slapping a label on her does nothing to add to her but does everything to take away from her uniqueness, her mystique.

Ahri can (does) exist on her own in the League universe, they just haven't expanded on her lore for whatever reason since she came out (not including the missing story they put out with the announcement of her canceled statue). They did update it to be more vague as to how she plans on attaining her human form without stealing life essence since the League of Legends and such isn't cannon anymore. NOT TO MENTION IT SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS HER BEING FROM/IN IONIA. All they really have to do is expand on her story now, and they definitely don't need to call her a "vastaya" to do it. Look to Rammus for example. They turned Rammus into a folk legend in the League universe. He's still just as much an enigma, but now people in-universe have talked about him in canon writing (that's what you want, right?) Ahri could just as easily be another folk legend, perhaps better known to vastaya who apparently see her more often, but a legend nonetheless. That at least would be the easiest way to expand on her presence in the universe. Again, not everyone needs a fancy fantastical backstory/lore.

Slapping a vastaya label on her just for the sake of it isn't necessary, just like slapping it on Rammus or Tahm Kench or Kindred or Varus or Draven or Poppy or Soraka isn't necessary. Ahri simply hasn't had her story expanded on yet.

KuroCaliber1 votes

Very well. I will agree to disagree with you here, as any possible lore update has not happened as of yet. If there are Lore updates announced in the near future, and Ahri is among them, then it is only after I read it that I will continue defending my stance. I believe that both of us have made our stance perfectly clear, and neither of us are willing to budge on it. My goal was to share a speculation, not for force you to accept it. I got a bit carried away, and so I apologize.

What I've written is purely speculation, and it's based on the most current lore update. As far as trades go, I see it as trading mysticism for potential. If that potential is unused, then you have every reason to be upset. But like Viktor, sit tight and wait. Ionia's getting changes and I'm curious to know what direction they hope to take it.

yay nibbers1 votes

Agree to disagree it is then, I suppose. Though I just don't see what new narrative potential chopping off her mystique could bring, it's clear you do. Even if you won't say what it is. Regardless, it is indeed clear neither of us will budge so not much can be done there. Guess we'll see where the lore team takes us in the coming days.

Tesla Effect1 votes

Vastayan closely inspired by Japanese Yokai, which have a spirit fox known as Kitsune (similar to Korean Kumiho) , which inspired Ahri.

Chinese Journey to the west have a Humanlike Monkey, and Humanlike Pig persons.

Japanese, Korean, and Chinese cultures are crutial in insipring the vast cultures of the continent of Ionia.

Kukan Seishin1 votes

AHRI IS A KUMIHO AHHHHHHHHHH

Dreamspitter1 votes

Can Rito draw more art like this?

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