@ Riot, I could use some help here regarding the new Talon skin...

GodKing Thumper·Feb 13, 2017·11 votes·5,090 views

I've posted this previously and it got removed for being in the wrong section supposedly. I sent in a ticket to get help with the issue, and was told to post it on the boards again. So here goes Riot...let's see if you'll answer it this time. Lol.

"I'm a Talon main, and I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the new skin...only problem that I've had with it is that I'm colorblind and it makes it exceptionally (almost impossibly) hard for me to see my bleed markers under the enemy. :( are you guys going to look into this, or is it a non-issue for you?"

11 Comments

RiotmoonstonesFeb 14, 201717 votes

Hey!

Thanks for bringing this to our attention!

I'm super excited to hear you like the new Talon skin, but less excited to hear you're having some visibility issues. :c

While we can't adjust for every type of colorblindness, since there are varying degrees, I can look into this and see what could be done to make it more colorblind friendly!

Lemme dig into this, and I can give you an update tomorrow. Sound good? :)

EDIT: We're in the process of speaking with the VFX artist who worked on BM Talon, and she's going to play around with the particles and see if she can come up with some adjustments.

EDIT 2: We popped in a fix that /should/ make it a bit easier to see now! It'll be available in the next patch. :)

Samflash3Feb 14, 20172 votes

NO!

He wants to see good not sound good

Hue Hue Hue

Sexy Jack RabbitFeb 14, 20171 votes

I kinda suspected these skins would be a nightmare in this regard from the beginning. With Red-Green colourblind being the most common trend amongst vision deficiency (I have Tritanopia, so this does not concern me as much), it was kind of bound to happen from the start.

I really like the skins team, and I hope in the future you'll continue to look into this when skins are being made. It's understandable that when creating something a haze can kind of set-in, like with SG Poppy, but I would really hope that skins teams to think forward a little more now that we've seen this happen a few times.

I haven't come across any issue's with Jhin's skins, but for some reason colour and clarity issues are prolific amongst TF and Talon's. This isn't my way of bad-mouthing the skins team, but just putting in my 2 cents that I would hope for the skins team to think a little bit more about us folk who struggle a little when coming up with skin palettes.

RiotmoonstonesFeb 14, 20173 votes

Youuuu have no idea. :P

So, we do test for colorblind issues with every skin - both via a Photoshop filter, as well as asking home in-house Rioters who are colorblind to check our work. Like I'd mentioned above, there are so many degrees of colorblindness that it's pretty hard to adjust for everyone, and in our case, we only have so many colorblind folks in house that can give us their feedback.

We've had several players reach out to us directly (most of the time on PBE), and that can help us, too! A good example here was, a player was having an issue with Blood Moon Twisted Fate's cards (he saw a video of PBE coverage) and made a post about it. We adjusted them ASAP, and they're already fixed and in the current patch!

We're always open to bugs, feedback and concerns, so I'd hope no one would hesitate to poke one of us, especially in a case like this where gameplay is a concern.

Sexy Jack RabbitFeb 15, 20171 votes

Does this kind of thing apply to a lot of other skins? Elementalist Lux seems to have just been this MASSIVE nightmare in-regards to Clarity vs Gameplay vs Aesthetics.

Even now the Elementalist Lux shield is almost the spitting image of the Edge of Night Active Shield.

To the point that when watching Replays I had to double take a few times.

RiotmoonstonesFeb 15, 20172 votes

Yes, we do run colorblind tests on all skins. Elementalist Lux is one of the most difficult skins to balance out, purely because she's a. changing forms, and b. uses every damn color under the rainbow. While we are considered to be 'experts of our craft', it can be hard to point out something if you've been staring/working on it for a year. IMO, this is why we had to make adjustments after release. In house, we don't have hundreds of thousands of people playtesting her with fresh eyes.

I'm not familiar with any discussions around Edge of Night, so I'm not able to provide context there. I've personally only seen comments on the boards regarding it. This would be something gameplay folks would make a call on v. skins.

Sexy Jack RabbitFeb 16, 20171 votes

Yeah that's fair enough. A creators haze sets in when you work on something for too long, it's understandable.

Like how every aspect of SG Poppy was blue, but her abilities were originally released a goldie-yellow for some reason. It seemed like a pretty obvious issue that I dunno how it got as far as it did.

Her hair was blue, her gloves were blue, her boots and skirt were blue, her eyes were blue, her Splash-art was blue. Blue, blue and more blue. But her abilities were... yellow?

Interesting to hear about Edge of Night, I suppose if it came down to changing them, they would just change the way the Edge of Night shield looks, as opposed to all of the E. Lux shields.

Thanks for the information Katey :) I always appreciate good communication.

RiotmoonstonesFeb 16, 20172 votes

Exactly! It's less likely to happen in shorter projects.

Star Guardian Poppy was a different case, and 'it got as far as it did' because the team felt it was the right call. It can be boring to have a blue outfit, with blue particles, and the team may have been trying to switch it up just a bit. There were also some gameplay concerns as to what could/should be pushed away from base. This is where player feedback can be super important. We had the opportunity to re-discuss the gameplay calls originally made to see where we could push her further.

We've done this before (re-evaluating things), such as Braum's passive being able to change, or Nidalee's overhead passive indicator not needing to be gold every time. As the game evolves, so do skins. With a new champion, it may be harder to determine what we should and shouldn't change on a skin because it's so new - and IMO, this may have been a trap we fell into with Star Guardian Poppy because her rework was new.

Edge of Night came prior to Elementalist Lux, so it's hard to say which way the team would go with.

Always glad to explain where I can. :)

The DreamwalkerFeb 14, 20171 votes

So, if someone saw a red champion they would see them as green? So, someone with color blindness would see MF's holiday skin as green? What other types are there? Man, now I am curious, I mean I knew there was color blindness, I just didn't know there were so many variations.

RiotBioluminescenceFeb 14, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Dreamwalker,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=G9sU0A1N,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-14T16:50:21.886+0000)

So, if someone saw a red champion they would see them as green? So, someone with color blindness would see MF's holiday skin as green? What other types are there? Man, now I am curious, I mean I knew there was color blindness, I just didn't know there were so many variations.

It's less that they see red as green, but that the colors red and green are indistinguishable. Red looks like green which looks like red (which looks like green, etc.)

It does confer some advantages in a few situations. Depending on the color blindness type and extent, some color blind people have an easy time spotting camouflage that is incredibly hard to see with standard color vision. There are also some types that confer better than standard night vision.

Also, there are some people (women, because genetics) who allegedly have _super_vision - tetrachromats. They have the ability to see even more colors than your standard trichromat human.

Lastly, humans can see infrared light, but at such low intensities that the rest of the visible light completely overwhelms it. You can get filters that remove almost all of the non-infrared light and put them in goggles to see what the IR world looks like in sunlight. I made a pair years ago, and it's spooky - all the trees and greenery are a frosty pink, some black clothing is black, while other black clothing is bright pink!

Color, man. It's weird.

Ras AgulFeb 17, 20171 votes

hey katey please help me it says i have no outstanding balance but my account is suspended what do i do? it takes a long time for them to respond by ticket help me please =/