Pentakill Kayle Skin Spotlight (Now with SFX)

Solari Fortune·Jul 28, 2017·7 votes·6,866 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B9vFRvyftc

54 Comments

RiotmoonstonesJul 28, 20175 votes

Thanks for posting this!

If anyone has feedback regarding the SFX (all skills, and recall), please feel free to drop it here. The sooner, the better, as we'd need time to discuss and potentially implement any changes. :)

NinjaGuy69Jul 28, 20172 votes

Is that half-shaven head hair style the trendy thing nowadays m'lady? Pool Party Fiora, Beast Hunter Draven and now Pentakill Kayle all have it. Also, can Kayn's follow up skin be Kayn-ye West where all of his emotes are references to Kayne West's dumbest quotes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPQK_ckbGSA

Lastly, can his recall please be a reenactment of the "Imma let you finish" with a Taylor Swift poro?

Malicious MetalJul 28, 20177 votes

Sidecuts are awesome!

RiotRiot ZimberflyJul 31, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Is that half-shaven head hair style the trendy thing nowadays m'lady? Pool Party Fiora, Beast Hunter Draven and now Pentakill Kayle all have it. Also, can Kayn's follow up skin be Kayn-ye West where all of his emotes are references to Kayne West's dumbest quotes?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPQK_ckbGSA

Lastly, can his recall please be a reenactment of the "Imma let you finish" with a Taylor Swift poro?

Huge plus one from me for a Kayne West skin :P

Malicious MetalJul 28, 20174 votes

I think you guys could amp up the Guitar shredding a tad, plus make the recall music a bit more distinct.

It's a Metal skin anyways, with capital M!

RiotRiot ZimberflyJul 31, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BE3AGHQF,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-07-28T21:32:42.670+0000)

I think you guys could amp up the Guitar shredding a tad, plus make the recall music a bit more distinct.

It's a Metal skin anyways, with capital M!

Hi Malicious Metal,

The recall music is from Tear of the Goddess, one of the tracks from the new Pentakill album. I wanted the musical phrase to span the course of the 8 seconds it takes to recall and end in a big resolving power chord. I'm actually making a tweak to it to make Kayle's vocal elements tail out a bit smoother, but yeah.

In regard to the guitar shredding in the kit, we wanted to strike a careful balance between gameplay and shred, so that you could get the vibe (the buff activate on her empowered autos for example) but still have a kit that felt like Kayle.

LeyinJul 28, 20171 votes

maybe tune the ult flames more darker? It looks now like the normal ult just with a other animation and some really cool Sound Effekts ( probs to the designer) and it is a pentakill skin , it should be much darker, maybe a dark orange mixed with red?

RiotmoonstonesJul 28, 20172 votes

Hey KNTE Lukas,

At this point, we're only looking for feedback relating to the SFX, since they came to PBE a bit later than the other content for this patch. All other aspects of Pentakill Kayle are locked down and finalized, aside from the last bugs we need to resolve.

LeyinJul 28, 20172 votes

ok :D

RiotmoonstonesJul 28, 20172 votes

In the future, I'd encourage feedback as soon as content hits the PBE, 'cause I'm sure you have a lot of awesome suggestions. :D The more time we have to discuss feedback, the more space there is for us to pivot and potentially make changes it!

LeyinJul 28, 20172 votes

I just thought because Brand got also this new bounce combo feature

RiotmoonstonesJul 28, 20172 votes

That's fair! Some suggestions that were given earlier in the week have been in the works for a bit, and were pushed to PBE today.

Chromatic EagleJul 28, 20171 votes

It'd be nice if we had a deadline of when changes are locked. Sometimes we don't learn about this stuff until it's too late.

RiotmoonstonesJul 28, 20172 votes

There isn't a hard and fast rule, to be honest.

I'd say any larger scale ideas should be given up front (first couple days of PBE), as those would take the most time to accommodate - i.e. a new indicator (VFX), slight model changes, etc.

Slight color tweaks can come in a bit later, as they usually don't take as much time to solve. A good example here was with Pentakill Mordekaiser; we got changes in today based on feedback. That'll go to PBE on Monday.

If someone came to me a day before we packaged the build and said they had some colorblind concerns, we'd absolutely hop on it. Same would go for something that we'd consider overall gameplay impacting.

Sexy Jack RabbitJul 29, 20171 votes

I just kinda wish personally the skins team would be more diligent or caring or whatever. Sometimes skins are just ignored until like 2 or 3 days b4 release and it's honestly annoying.

Dark Star Orianna and Kha'Zix saw NO replies to the feedback till like 2 days b4 patch end. Why do we even give feedback if it's just ignored anyways?

Not even gonna mention how bad the skins team was at replying and responding to the changes to Sejuani during the Tank update.

Yes. I know the skins team can't respond to all feedback. I don't expect that. I just expect one response at all. Something we don't even get some of the time. It honestly feels disrespectful.

KillaburnJul 29, 20171 votes

don't forget the new OS skins. I think a nice example is the heartseeker quin, which they totally change alot of her design but i wish her hunch was gone. so maybe release it 1 week before pbe??; miss the pink hair though :(

Sexy Jack RabbitJul 29, 20171 votes

Heartseeker Quinn was just a mess. Would of been best to just scrap it and start over imo.

KillaburnJul 29, 20171 votes

yeah, so much potential; lets just wait for her VGU in 2030 ;-; * Cries in the Corner *

Wish riot has diff teams on creating skins, tweaking old/unloved skins and a team that supervise both to minimize time.

RiotmoonstonesJul 31, 20172 votes

We have both Skins and Champion Update. We collaborate when updates are in progress for older, existing content. Skins took this Pentakill update on, since we were already elbows deep in the Pentakill thematic, but this is a rare case.

One Ashe OnJul 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BE3AGHQF,comment-id=000000030000,timestamp=2017-07-28T21:53:36.438+0000)

Hey KNTE Lukas,

At this point, we're only looking for feedback relating to the SFX, since they came to PBE a bit later than the other content for this patch. All other aspects of Pentakill Kayle are locked down and finalized, aside from the last bugs we need to resolve.

I'l give my opinion but can you change her basic attack animation like Aether wing? It make Kayle odd to play and really look bad.

RiotmoonstonesJul 28, 20174 votes

As it stands, we aren't planning to update the AA.

If we were to make a new animation, we'd need a couple days to do it, run it through a playtest to make sure it felt okay. Chances are, it might not, so we'd need to adjust again (rinse, repeat). After, we need to re-export the animations and QA all animations on all skins to make sure we didn't break anything.

Based on how long we have left to work on the skin - we're still tweaking SFX, bug fixing and testing the final product - it's unlikely our team (skins) would be able to accommodate that. We're also doing this in conjunction with all of the Arcade content, and the new Hecarim skin, so it's pretty packed patch for us.

TL;DR: We don't want to rush and give you a half assed auto attack for the sake of calling it updated.

But why not copy paste Aether Wing Kayle's AA?

This particular animation wouldn't simply slide over to Pentakill Kayle - the rig is different, as are the animations, which would mean model, animation and VFX adjustments, which also take development and QA time.

It's also a feelsbadman case when we take something that makes a legendary skin cool/unique and stick it on another skin.

One Ashe OnJul 28, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot KateyKhaos,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BE3AGHQF,comment-id=00000003000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-28T22:10:54.247+0000)

As it stands, we aren't planning to update the AA.

If we were to make a new animation, we'd need a couple days to do it, run it through a playtest to make sure it felt okay. Chances are, it might not, so we'd need to adjust again (rinse, repeat). After, we need to re-export the animations and QA all animations on all skins to make sure we didn't break anything.

Based on how long we have left to work on the skin - we're still tweaking SFX, bug fixing and testing the final product - it's unlikely our team (skins) would be able to accommodate that. We're also doing this in conjunction with all of the Arcade content, and the new Hecarim skin, so it's pretty packed patch for us.

TL;DR: We don't want to rush and give you a half assed auto attack for the sake of calling it updated.

But why not copy paste Aether Wing Kayle's AA?

This particular animation wouldn't simply slide over to Pentakill Kayle - the rig is different, as are the animations, which would mean model, animation and VFX adjustments, which also take development and QA time.

It's also a feelsbadman case when we take something that makes a legendary skin cool/unique and stick it on another skin.

Seems fair, thanks for the answer.

RiotmoonstonesJul 28, 20172 votes

[slayer-jinx-catface]

KillaburnJul 29, 20172 votes

just release a pre skin spotlight before hitting the pbe. maybe release it on friday/saturday before the pbe patch so that we could give a feedback as fast as we can. If you'll do it like that. maybe inform the other pips in the community by creating an ask.riot about this topic.

RiotmoonstonesJul 31, 20173 votes

That's a good suggestion!

Usually, we plan videos for the day of PBE because they need time to capture the content and edit a video. All content isn't usually ready until later in the cycle. It's something we could definitely strive to do better - getting the content done sooner/having more time. That's a fairly significant process improvement needed on our side; it isn't impossible though.

I can sync up with our capture team and skins team and get their thoughts around it. This wouldn't be an overnight change, of course, but we could consider it for future releases.

KillaburnJul 31, 20171 votes

thanks :D i hope that you could implement this in the future so that we could contribute/improve it too in making skins. Another point if you implement this is that other people will be satisfied to contribute and your team will not be bash by other people in later release like past patches specially that the community is taking part of it and its there fault too if its messed up again. its a win-win statement and you will not regret it.

patmax17Jul 31, 20172 votes

Hi Katey! I might have already asked this before and if so I'm sorry, but what does the skins team think of leaving the skins on PBE for two cycles rather than only one? This would mean we would leave a patch without skins, but it could be worth if it means we have double the time to suggest changes to skins, I think?

RiotmoonstonesAug 1, 20172 votes

I can't speak for the entire team, but I personally think it has both positives and negatives.

As you've said, positives would be that we could have more time for feedback, which would be awesome. There would also be a larger window to pivot on content.

On the flip side, players could be upset that the content is sitting on PBE for so long, as opposed to shipping on live. I'm speaking from experience for the last one, as we left content like DJ Sona up on PBE for longer than a cycle and there was a flood of players asking why it wasn't just shipped to live. Similar things have happened when we leave skins up on PBE for a bit longer during the holidays 'cause our release cadence is a bit off.

We could also fall into the scenario of, 'we gave you these suggestions, why aren't you changing anything? You clearly have time.' You'd be right, we would have more time, but when we talk about suggestions, we weigh in if the suggestion makes the skin better, but also if it meets the pillars/goals that we set out to hit when making the skin. Some of that comes down to subjectivity of art, and in a lot of cases, we rely on our craft experts in a particular discipline.

Seriously though, there are some really awesome ideas that players come up with that we do implement - like giving a jade dragon tattoo to Firecracker Jinx!

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that these are sentiments that couldn't be changed, but right now, it would be a concern for me. We could likely mitigate some of it with more transparency with why we are and aren't changing things. That's something I've personally been trying to get better with, as opposed to just saying, 'Thanks, but we won't be making changes.'

This is a bit out of my wheelhouse when it comes to if/how we would make it happen, so I don't feel comfortable wagering bets on how we could do it, haha. BUT, these are some of my personal thoughts on the subject. :)

patmax17Aug 2, 20172 votes

I see, thanks for you reply as always :)

While I get your concerns, I want to try to give a different point of view:

when DJ sona stayed on PBE for longer than usual (with good reason, being an ultimate skin), people were used to seeing one patch worth of content on PBE, skins stay on PBE for two weeks and then are released. DJ Sona staying on PBE for longer was an exception, it was not expected, not standard. If skins by default stayed on PBE for longer, I think/hope people would get used to it. But then again, there will always be people asking 1000 times when the next piece of content comes out, so would this really change, for better or worse?
I'm perfectly aware that not every suggested change will be accepted, I don't think that's the point of the problem. What makes me a bit sad is when you clearly say "this is a good suggestion, but the skin was released on PBE on wednesday, now it's friday and we can't change that anymore", meaning that the suggestion would be implemented if you had more time. Something similar happened with the tattoos on PP Fiora's chromas, for example. I know that changes take time, and that when you release a skin on PBE you aren't in your office sitting around and twiddling thumbs but are already working on the next content, but we also often can't give feedback within two days since the skins hit PBE.

I know it's not your responsibility to make this kind of decisions and I appreciate a lot that you took the time to answer meaningfully nonetheless. I also won't get mad over this, I just wish sometimes there was more time to implement suggestions. I have to say though that I can see that while you can't always implement feedback on the skins currently on PBE, that you keep it in mind when working on future skins, and that's something I appreciate a lot. Keep it up, and send a hug to all people on skins team! :)

RiotmoonstonesAug 2, 20172 votes

Hey again!

I think/hope people would get used to it. But then again, there will always be people asking 1000 times when the next piece of content comes out, so would this really change, for better or worse?

Right, as I've said, I don't think it's something that we couldn't change in terms of perception, it's just a current concern I would have. :)

What makes me a bit sad is when you clearly say "this is a good suggestion, but the skin was released on PBE on wednesday, now it's friday and we can't change that anymore",

Allow me to clarify what I mean by saying something is a good suggestion. I comment on things when I think they're good suggestions because I, as Katey, think it would be a cool idea. It doesn't mean the team would agree with me and want to implement said change.

Suggestions that I see when new content hits PBE are brought to the team, and we discuss 'em. Ultimately, the team makes a call on if they agree with the suggestion, and if so, what scope does this add to the project/what's feasible. If we're living in the world you'd suggested (2 week PBE cycles) there would still be some things we still wouldn't be able to accommodate, such as new VO, VO processing, and some larger animation work. This is due to the point I'm about to make below!

when you release a skin on PBE you aren't in your office sitting around and twiddling thumbs but are already working on the next content

Yep, we've got ~8-10 skins in flight at a time, so we allocate x amount of time to each, which includes bug fixing and potential feedback adjustments.

Currently, if we were to make a larger scale change to something on PBE, we're taking away from development of something else, which means the unreleased content may not get that extra love it deserves.

As I'd mentioned before, I really can't speak to if/how any of this would change, but this is more to give you an idea of how we currently work and the bumps we hit during development now.

I totally get that can be frustrating, especially when you're passionate about content and want to help shape it; it can be a really exciting feeling when a change you've suggested is implemented!

Out of curiosity, would you mind dropping me an instance of when you had suggested feedback and it wasn't implemented?

ShadowParkerAug 2, 20172 votes

Omega Squad? Even if you didn't work on those skins, there was a lot of feedback and no changes were made.

patmax17Aug 2, 20171 votes

Huh, I'm going through my PBE comments to see if I find something, I recall something similar happening with pool party chromas https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/general-pbe-feedback/MK64rExY-pbe-bugs-feedback-thread-pool-party-chromas?comment=000600000000 But since I got a reply a few days after I posted my suggestion, I think in that case there were some other issues (e.g. some team members were on holiday?).

You might be right that something like this happens less frequently than I think ^^ (I don't post on PBE that much, and going through my comments on NA boards I guess would be quite an effort ^^')

I just want to point out that I'm not overly attached to this suggestion either, maybe it sounded like that but I was really just asking, won't be mad if it can't be changed (i like to put my passion into more concrete things, e.g. when will we finally see Star Guardian Taliyah and Illaoi? :P)

blackfootedfoxAug 2, 20171 votes

If I could add to this a little bit, OS Twitch's taunt (aka "invisible violin") recieved almost entirely negative feedback from all platforms because of its similarity to the base skin. The PBE Rito team defended the idea, but it didn't really resonate anywhere I saw feedback on the skin (Reddit, PBE boards, NA boards).

RiotmoonstonesAug 4, 20172 votes

I'm not sure if you saw the final changes, but we updated it so that it uses foley from Vandal Twitch based on the initial feedback that was given regarding the invisible violin. :)

RiotmoonstonesAug 4, 20172 votes

I didn't work on these, no, but I am aware that a few changes were made based on feedback, and a few that weren't. I don't have full context on the entire development, but this is what I've gathered in reviews.

Keep in mind that, while we do hear out feedback, it isn't guaranteed that we'll make every change suggested.

For Twitch, we added a poison aura back to his (R) because players felt is was unreadable. We also changed the violin SFX because players felt that playing an invisible violin seemed awkward. This was updated to use Vandal Twitch's foley.

The Venom Cask SFX weren't changed because it's one of the clear indicators on this particular champion, and we felt this would maintain the skill's readability for the sake of gameplay.

I know the knife was also a hot topic, but this was explained; it was a design choice that we knowingly made to avoid it reading like a spike at the end of his tail.

RiotmoonstonesAug 4, 20172 votes

Ah, yeah, sometimes weekends may get in the way. That, or sometimes, we send your feedback off to the team first, and then reply a bit later, as to get feedback blasted out for discussion as soon as possible.

Regardless of how passionate you are, valid feedback is valid feedback, and I'd hope you always share your thoughts, no matter how small. You'd be surprised at how many people agree with you on some of the smaller details.

To answer your last question - not soon enough. :P

kasfasJul 29, 20171 votes

Quick question. Why is it that the official name for this skin isn't PentaKayle?

RiotmoonstonesJul 31, 20173 votes

For NA, at least, we felt it would be more cohesive with the existing skin line. In a lot of other regions, the translation may not make a lot of sense.

kasfasJul 31, 20172 votes

I give riot a lot of flack on the boards, but sometimes I think I need to give some appreciation to what's done well. I want to thank you guys for making some really great stuff. Especially the new urgot skins, those things are pretty boss.

RiotmoonstonesAug 1, 20172 votes

Aw, thanks. <3

Champion Update did a stellar job on the Urgot update. I'll be sure to let them know that you're a big fan of the updated skins. :) Hopefully, my team can do him justice when it comes time to give him a new skin. :3

kasfasAug 2, 20171 votes

Star guardian? No? Alright then...

Have you thought of Brogot? ######No wait, I should save that for another day.

Malicious MetalAug 1, 20172 votes

Sorry for bumping in on this conversation but when are we getting some tweaks for PK Mordekaiser, don't know if Surrender@20 didn't pay attention to it but there wasn't any coverage on PK Morde's helmet colors being adjusted.

RiotmoonstonesAug 1, 20173 votes

No need to apologize! Changes did happen, I swear. :P

Here's a quick comparison shot. http://imgur.com/wHn9wnd

For visibility, we've also updated Pentakill Sona's bracers to better match with the skin's thematic. http://imgur.com/w3QcUuk

Malicious MetalAug 1, 20172 votes

Ah, thanks Katey!

Might actually start using it more than I already did^^

RiotmoonstonesAug 1, 20172 votes

[slayer-jinx-catface]

JbelsAug 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BE3AGHQF,comment-id=0000000500000001,timestamp=2017-08-01T16:55:26.591+0000)

Sorry for bumping in on this conversation but when are we getting some tweaks for PK Mordekaiser, don't know if Surrender@20 didn't pay attention to it but there wasn't any coverage on PK Morde's helmet colors being adjusted.

I honestly think it would have been better to just leave it that way. Having the metal in his helmet look molten was cool as hell, and almost made it look like a crown (considering he started Pentakill, AND his name means Murder Emperor in German)