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To all the Viktor fans: Calm down, there's still a chance.

Tattersall··7 votes·1,408 views
Piltover

I'm guessing that a lot of you guys are, for lack of a better word, triggered. The Jayce lore comes out and Viktor is shown as a guy who cuts open people's heads to turn them into slaves. Well I'm here to tell you to be patient.

The page that released the new Piltover lore is incomplete. You can clearly see at the top of the page that there's still content to be unlocked. And what's this? Not only the Piltover logo (on the left), but also the Zaun logo (right)! That, coupled with the fact that the third part is entitled "Piltover Champion Tales," leads me to believe that they're also planning on releasing Zaun lore in the near future.

The Jayce Viktor dynamic has always been written to be the same story from two different angles. Jayce's biography is from his perspective, and I have little doubt that Riot will show us Viktor's soon. Don't lose hope yet!

Btw, I actually don't know if someone else has already said this on the boards, but I'ma post this anyway.

26 Comments

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

Lots of people, me included, have been trying to make them feel better. I've found them to be mostly inconsolable.

The people I've been talking to have basically logic'd their way into a corner where they are convinced that there is NOTHING Riot could do to undo the damage to Viktor. And given their high demands regarding his lore, they are probably right (with regards to their own feelings).

The thing about retcons is that the people passionate about the original story have to make peace with some details changing. Everyone knows that. The problem is when the intended purpose of the character doesn't match those people's perception of him.

I think Viktor was always intended to be a slightly insane extremist. His original lore didn't capture that very well, and that led to a lot of people believing that he was this "neutral force" in Runeterra. I don't think that's how he was intended. Now, from Riot's point of view, they are "fixing" that problem, and the people who liked the broken version will never be happy with that.

Warlord Dienekes6 votes

I wrote something similar in a different thread. I don't think Riot ever intended to write the Viktor they originally wrote. The original Viktor; was more than willing to let go a betrayal to focus on his work, was instrumental in creating true AI and programing free will, and was putting about to prove that his glorious revolution was the way of the future.

These are all either neutral or downright admirable things. Unfortunately, Riot thought they were making a comicbook super villain. So every appearance since he was originally made he's been a comicbook super villain.

Only, the neutral character that they originally, perhaps unintentionally, wrote, is FAR more interesting than some guy trying to destroy free will, and commanding his minions to commit murder.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

That's where I disagree with you. I think the new Viktor is still a shade of grey, since his motives are still ultimately good. After all, in the disagreement about the dock worker suit, he wanted to reduce free will to reduce accidents on the docks.

He is willing to sacrifice people for his idea. So is Jayce; he would rather have free will than safety for dock workers. They are two sides of the same coin, and I think that's the point of not only Jayce/Viktor, but also Piltover/Zaun. In the Piltover/Zaun rivalry, neither is good and neither is evil. There is good and evil in both. The same is true of Viktor and Jayce, and the people who don't understand that are the ones who are angry.

Warlord Dienekes4 votes

You see, the problem as I see it, is that getting rid of free will is the cartoony, almost hilariously Sunday morning cartoon villain. Because the flaws are so blatantly obvious with the plan. Getting rid of free will just puts all impetus on the controller, without an actual computer organizing the workers (or something similar, like say, a hive mind queen whose body excretions give out more data than our scientists can entirely figure out) you'll just get useless workers.

When the fix is so obvious. Have the argument be about getting rid of emotions. It's equally as horrific, but being without emotion while with will would just as easily reduce accidents as it effectively reduces human error. That's something to start an actual debate, and be the keystone argument between the two.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Well, that's obviously not true in LoL's universe. He was able to send thugs to attack Jayce that were for from useless (maybe useless in the sense that they were never going to beat Jayce). He was able to make machines with human brains, as well.

Assuming that they would be useless is the assumption I am referring to. That's the playerbase degrading the story, not Riot.

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

Or Riot not bothering to understand how the human mind works. It's not exactly the first time they've written a story without doing the precursory research. A plan that works because the writers say it works despite not actually making sense, is not all that good a piece of literature.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

It's called suspension of disbelief, and plenty of stories use it.

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

And a rather large portion of those stories abuse it. Suspension of disbelief works as a means of being a fundamental break from the mundane. For example, without super advanced technology far beyond what we are currently capable of, it is impossible to accomplish what Viktor and Orianna have. The introduction of the element of hextech allows us to step past that and, hopefully, explore what this magic-tech can do on a societal and individual level.

But, that is not an excuse for lazy worldbuilding. If you introduce an element, that element becomes part of the setting to be drawn upon. If you are attempting to create a story about the advancement of technology and the effect on what it means to be human, a reflection on what we will be facing in the next few generations. That's what creates a meaningful speculative fiction, which this clearly is. But once you start ignoring really basic things just to make the story work, or so you do not have to do research into what ideas you're attempting to spread are, then the worth of that story plummets. It goes from high minded speculation to schlock. Riot's taking the easy way out, and it hurts the story, their characterization, and what these stories can mean. Because it's been toted by Riot and some of their more vocal fans that they're trying to make a more cohesive adult world. And if they are, which is not a bad thing. They're going to be judged by those benchmarks, that the world they create is actually cohesive, that the concepts and characters presented actually have depth.

Tattersall4 votes

I'm still wondering if all the "removing free will" stuff is just Jayce's interpretation. I'm still considering the possibility that Jayce is a flawed narrator. In his eyes, he sees mindless, chem over-dosing cyborgs with no free will, but in reality they're just loyal to the cause. It's even possible that Viktor didn't order them to attack Jayce and they believe that Jayce is the enemy.
It's like how Riot has said that Viktor doesn't consider the Glorious Evolution to be a religion or miracles or anything, but a culture has risen in Zaun that treats it as such. So maybe when Jayce heard "remove the dock worker's free will for their own good," what he really meant was something tamer, like "remove some human parts of him so that he avoids human error." I mean, it is pretty much confirmed that Jayce and Viktor both lack some common social skills, maybe enough to miscommunicate and misunderstand a lot of what the other really means, or not say what they mean adequately. ######I like to ramble.

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

It's ok, I'm not the most laconic guy on these boards either.

I would say that is better. But I'll freely admit, my own experiences with Riot storytelling has left me more jaded than I think a lot of others are. If that turns out to be the case, then my arguments fall away and I will tip my proverbial hat to the writers. I just wouldn't be holding my breathe.

ModKnightsKemplar4 votes

That's a fair position. I much prefer your kind of not loving the story to the demands to improve it, I'll admit.

I've been rather fond of their storytelling so far, so I probably won't mind how Viktor turns out one way or the other. I just enjoy the universe getting details; it doesn't matter to me if they fit my preconceptions or not. So I'm certainly biased in my own way.

Warlord Dienekes2 votes

The internet is full of hyperbole, and I know I engage in it as well. But I try to stay pretty firmly grounded in fact based arguments: These are the things I don't like, these are the things I think Riot did wrong, these are the things I think could be done to improve, and why.

But I know the futility of demanding a company like Riot does anything. What are they going to say? "Oh man, we just spent hours typing up this Targon lore, after months of planning, but because some random schmuck on the internet thinks it's crap, we better re-write the whole thing!" That's ridiculous. And at the same time I think Riot has a lot of plates in the air about what Viktor is going to be up to, especially in his relationship with Jayce. They may be able to fiddle the details, but the big picture that Viktor is gonna be the villain is probably firmly set in stone.

In any case, I'm glad you are enjoying things. That's what I think is key. I want people to enjoy the work put into lores and tales. I may not agree but I'm not so petty as to want anyone to face problems because of my criticism, more, hoping that Riot improves in the future. I don't want to see anything bad happen.

Except to whoever thought it was a good idea to turn Pantheon into a parasitic space creature from an intergalactic empire. He deserves to be fired (I'm joking... mostly).

Mogarl3 votes

{quoted}

The Jayce Viktor dynamic has always been written to be the same story from two different angles. Jayce's biography is from his perspective, and I have little doubt that Riot will show us Viktor's soon. Don't lose hope yet!

The Jayce Dynamic has always been this. Viktor's dynamic was self sustaining. Viktor's story at no point required Jayce, and it was Jayce's lore that required him to lean on Viktor as his Villain. This retcon has simply left Viktor now unable to stand on his own because he's been forced to be a foil to Jayce. Viktor's story was never dependent on Jayce, but now his story simply cannot exist. Viktor has been reduced to a villain for Jayce. That is the problem. I find it difficult to hold my breath to see if Narative can really fix this with Viktor's lore.

My decision on the new lore is ultimately going to be decided by the two (at maximum) paragraphs that will be in Viktor's lore after he get's kicked out of piltover, and before he robs Jayce.

Tattersall1 votes

Geez.

You're missing the point (I think). I'm just saying that, even if you think you have reason to, you shouldn't underestimate Riot like this. There is still a chance that Riot does something awesome that changes the story completely from Viktor's perspective. Plus, Jayce isn't Viktor's only enemy. He has these random guys who are worshipping for some reason and he doesn't really understand why. That's an interesting conflict. I think it's even a possibility that Viktor doesn't even consider Jayce to be a full-on enemy. Those guys who attacked Jayce might've just been a few idiots who were like "Hey, wasn't there a guy who once fought Jegus? Yeah, let's kill him."

Mogarl2 votes

Yeah, sorry. I'm still working off the last bits of being Bipolar towards this. Now I'm just trying to look past the things that are gone and try and find new, positive things in the lore, that have been missed. There are still some traits that because of how Viktor is newly presented are gone. Even if some of the events are the same, because of how they are presented now it's hard for them to be the same result. Viktor's story was previously independent of other champions, and now it isn't. This isn't really just true for Viktor vs. Jayce. From this lore event we also just had Camille Orianna, and even Singed (although his intrusion actually came back with Eve's lore) intrude upon a niche that had until previously been occupied solely by Viktor. These aren't things that are going to be coming back, because his dominance over augmentation is gone.

While I'm trying to get over what is lost, even if what is new is really good. What's lost is lost.

I digress however, what I said was a teensy bit harsh, but still true to some degree. I am trying to look forward, pick out, and obsess over new ideas and concepts of Viktor. The Rioting on these boards was over the top and we need to move on to something more constructive.

Thorgram2 votes

Well, he could be Zaunite, and then went to study in Piltover, a bit like Ekko could do. Either way, he is more related to Zaun right now.

And for example, Vi is a Piltie cop, while being a Zaunite.

Ebonmaw Dragon1 votes

{quoted}

The page that released the new Piltover lore is incomplete. You can clearly see at the top of the page that theres still content to be unlocked. And whats this? Not only the Piltover logo (on the left), but also the Zaun logo (right)! That, coupled with the fact that the third part is entitled Piltover Champion Tales, leads me to believe that theyre also planning on releasing Zaun lore in the near future.

But now, with the new lore of Jayce, Viktor IS from Piltover

checkmate atheist

Tattersall1 votes

Uhh… What?

Ebonmaw Dragon3 votes

{quoted}

Uhh… What?

In the new lore of Jayce, it says that Viktor studied and lived in Piltover until he "was stripped of his honors and ostracized from Piltover’s scientific community".

Sure, he may live in Zaun now, but the truth is that he is a Piltie.

Tattersall1 votes

No, I meant what do you mean by "checkmate atheist?"

Ebonmaw Dragon2 votes

{quoted}

No, I meant what do you mean by "checkmate atheist?"

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/checkmate-atheists

Its a joke... I mean, technically followers of The Glorious Evolved are now religious, so it fits.

Sharjo3 votes

Well Vi is from Zaun but now lives in Piltover, so she's really a Zaunite.

Counter checkmate.

Kuzja11 votes

I can't wait to see Viktor's prespective. This Glorious Evolution is starting to get more violent. I love it

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Also, the way Viktor is seen only adds more to the fact that he's even more misunderstood.

This thread should be stickied to all those Viktor fans, and if even his perspective is strange, that's when all of us can start complaining.

Solidair31 votes

Speaking of which, SUPER hoping for some Janna Lore when we get around to Zaun.

I feel like I barely know her :(

Tattersall1 votes

Huh. I forgot about her.

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