About the new champ bios that have been coming out

Solari Fortune·Nov 28, 2017·17 votes·5,927 views

Many of these are either incomplete, or placeholder stuff for future lore

64 Comments

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 28, 201718 votes

Correct. The patch notes are quite clear - they are "short bios" to make sure every champion has the same, minimum level of lore on the client. For everything else, you should check out Universe. :-)

Unless there is a DIRECT contradiction between the client and the stuff on Universe, then the champion's lore has not been altered at this stage. I've seen a lot of people getting discouraged by "changes" made to their mains, when in fact it's just our writers/editors working against the very short word count...

HellioningNov 29, 20176 votes

I think the whole 'short bio in the client, long bio on Universe' thing isn't working out. For most people, the client is all that matters; why do they have to go to a separate site to have to view the 'full' lore?

(Not to mention the full lore for most of these complaints aren't even out yet, so...)

Lintu PuckNov 29, 20175 votes

if the client is all that matters, then why come here and complain when they could instead come here and look for more info and thus have a more productive time?

Dorans PantsNov 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I think the whole 'short bio in the client, long bio on Universe' thing isn't working out. For most people, the client is all that matters; why do they have to go to a separate site to have to view the 'full' lore?

(Not to mention the full lore for most of these complaints aren't even out yet, so...)

yeah that´s something that is bothering me since I started playing the game. Everything in the client is made to give you as less information as possible. For example, I couldn´t believe that you couldn´t look up the scalings on abilities in a game with such a competitive background and it took me a year to "discover" that there is actually more lore to my favorite champ than assumed. In addition to that, you also have to TOGGLE ON additional info in the new runepages to get any useful information out of it. And this turns itself off every time you close the game.

riot could i please upgrade my scrublord-client-9000 to something that takes the game at least a little bit serious and doesn´t treat me like a 9year old [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Solari FortuneNov 29, 20171 votes

I am a little curious though about Varus since he is now a Darkin and it says he took over 2 Ionian Hunters, I didn't think that they could have multiple hosts. So would that mean there are 2 Varus' in the world?

TerraRisingNov 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Correct. The patch notes are quite clear - they are "short bios" to make sure every champion has the same, minimum level of lore on the client. For everything else, you should check out Universe. :-)

Unless there is a DIRECT contradiction between the client and the stuff on Universe, then the champion's lore has not been altered at this stage. I've seen a lot of people getting discouraged by "changes" made to their mains, when in fact it's just our writers/editors working against the very short word count...

Why is there a "short" word count in the first place? This was a problem in the old client (one of the many issues with Lore/Narrative at the time), but shouldn't there be as much space as needed in the shiny new client to tell stories?

I mean, If the goal is to get players to read the longer stories on the Universe site, shouldn't these pages include a direct link to the website? Also, shouldn't the focus of these be on pitching the entire story like a movie and not on a minimal word count?

Hell, the last time there was an attempt to shorten lore stories for the client a Rioter on the newly created "Narrative" department ended up getting a death threat. (It was unfortunate and unjustified, but their flippant attitude towards lore fans was horrible. Especially on the heels of the Great Retcon, the announcement that removed summoners/players from the game's story and shoved the entire established mythos into the toilet.)

We'll see what happens when Varus's story gets released, but history is not on Narrative's side.

Beyond LegendsNov 29, 20175 votes

The word count is a formatimg issue, the new champion page in the client is not fitted for long bios. Also most of these stuff are on the PBE atm not in the actual game, seem to me being pissed about content not yet offically released is laughable.

Also it seem that you have no been paying attemtiom the the lore development at all. The new narrative team was created during the bildgewater event, the rioter who announced left before burning tide. Granted the whole reveal was handle poorly, but we're three years in the new lore already. Noxus and Ionia lore update are coming early next year.

TerraRisingNov 29, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AE9GL99e,comment-id=000000020000,timestamp=2017-11-29T01:01:49.768+0000)

The word count is a formatimg issue, the new champion page in the client is not fitted for long bios.

Riot created a new client and had the opportunity to make it fit whatever the Narrative team needed. Supposedly, the Client team can also change it now to suit the needs of Narrative.

Instead, it's the exact same problem as the Retcon, significant story changes are being made without proper context or warning. Only now, after a scant few special events and the creation of the Universe section, there are more people who are on the "Rah-Rah-Riot" side than not.

Also most of these stuff are on the PBE atm not in the actual game, seem to me being pissed about content not yet offically released is laughable.

So... better to wait until the stuff is officially released and the team is already working on other projects than to express anger early and hope Riot takes enough notice to change their decisions?

Also it seem that you have no been paying attemtiom the the lore development at all. The new narrative team was created during the bildgewater event, the rioter who announced left before burning tide. Granted the whole reveal was handle poorly, but we're three years in the new lore already. Noxus and Ionia lore update are coming early next year.

Not only is your timeline off, that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

I'm seeing new people at Riot making the same mistakes their predecessors made as well as a department that claimed to have learned from the troubled past, yet are doing it all over again.

Beyond LegendsNov 29, 20173 votes

I would believe that post three years ago regarding riot deciding to take a new narrative direction was a good enough of a “warning” to most people but I guess not.

What kinda of context do you want about a ret con? They said they were planning to ret conning everyones lore already. Crying about lore change is one thing, but crying about a not getting a warning for the lore change when riot said they're doing a lore change is just sad.

Expressing anger is hardly going change the outcome of the new lore. Most of the new lore is well recieved (including targon despite the crying) by most. At best you could hope for them slightly reword or rename something. Riot tend to stick through their narrative changes.

Do tell me how did I get the timeline wrong? The new narrative team we have today is mostly formed during the burning tide event. The Riot who leak the whole summoner being gone has since left Riot. I've been following the new lore development for quite some time now, I would like to tell me where was I wrong.

Honestly what mistakes are being made here? Varus is being release this friday. Noxus and Ionia LU is right around the corner, there isn't really going to be 9 month drought of lore content.

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 29, 20178 votes

By the time something hits PBE, from a lore perspective, it's already been translated and locked for the patch. That stuff happens more than a month beforehand, and often earlier.

However, as I've said elsewhere - if new lore gets an overwhelmingly negative reaction from a majority of players, we would consider changing it, no doubt. :-)

NefasNov 29, 20175 votes

I don’t believe that. I don’t have any reason to believe that. The lore is made by whatever direction the writers choose to go - that’s how Riot has shown itself to operate - regardless of how mains view, interact with, and understand their champs. If this was a book series that would make all the sense in the world - the writer chooses the plot and the characterizations. But this isn’t a book, it’s a game and we are playing as these characters on a daily level. the players are intertwined with the characters. Drastically changing a champs motivations - as has been done even in the recent lore past e.g. Mount Targon - or other changes to characterization isn’t something to do lightly yet it happens all the time.

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 30, 20173 votes

We value feedback. But we can't act on ALL feedback.

Our lore is not written by committee, only a single Rioter at a time. You'd be amazed how much I've witnessed the process and the quality of interaction improving in the last year, but I'm actually arguing hard that we need to take League champions as the "A-canon", and not change stuff just because we can...

You're also assuming that everyone wants what you want. We get THOUSANDS of requests for more stories and less in-game lore every day, and only a handful of people saying they want less. Just saying! :-)

NefasNov 30, 20173 votes

I’m not sure you are understanding what I want or what I’m asking for. My comments about in-game are about how players react to Riot changing lore, not about lore needing to be or not be in-game, or even lore needing to explain the game.

People have been playing as these characters for a long time - they interact often on a daily basis. That is a different kind of relationship than most other relationships between audience and story. People like Game of Thrones characters, they like their stories, they identify with them. But they don’t interact with them on a daily basis (unless they are the most hardcore of fans - on forums, roleplaying, writing fanfic, whatever). There is a level of authorial control that George RR Martin has - he shapes the story and we are his audience. We are a level removed from the story - much more passive. My point is that there is a much different relationship between audience (players) and Riot (authors/creators) in a medium like LoL as well as between audience and characters (champs). Maining a champ makes for a much more active and personal relationship than reading a book and relating to a character. We all have that “hardcore” level of interaction with the characters. These personal relationships have existed for a while and so changing and retconning lore is more personal. Diana’s story can’t be the choice of the Riot author in the same way that Jaime Lannister’s story is the choice of GRRM. That’s my point.

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 30, 20172 votes

I hear you. :-)

I have some experience with this already - I was a commissioning editor for Games Workshop for years, working on fiction that accompanies games that a lot of people care very deeply about. It's a tricky one, indeed! Some people never play the game and have certain expectations of the fiction on its own, and for others it's the opposite. You sound like you are very much the latter, and it's Riot's collective duty to try to serve everyone.

I don't want to default to saying "Just wait and see, you might actually love it"... so instead, I hope I can assure you that I've made a couple of notes from this thread (and your feedback in particular) and I'll bring it all to the table when we Narrative folks next meet. And I thank you for taking the time to clarify your point.

NefasNov 30, 20173 votes

Thanks for coming around and posting. I appreciate the commentary and transparency.

TerraRisingNov 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

By the time something hits PBE, from a lore perspective, it's already been translated and locked for the patch. That stuff happens more than a month beforehand, and often earlier.

However, as I've said elsewhere - if new lore gets an overwhelmingly negative reaction from a majority of players, we would consider changing it, no doubt. :-)

I highlighted the above phrase since it seems to be one you're using frequently.

Why does the new lore have to reach such a high negative threshold before Riot even considers changing it?

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 30, 20174 votes

A fair question!

Purely because, once we finish something and move on, it takes away from other, newer projects to go back and alter it. And we'd get people saying "Forget that champion! You already did them! Why not MY favourite instead?!" ;-) But I'd always rather wait for the dust to settle on something, as opposed to making any decision in haste. Also, giving more people a chance to see it.

It's always worth remembering that there are a LOT of decisions that get made behind the scenes before we update a piece of lore/champion/whatever. Again, I'd say that Riot shouldn't ever change something "because we can" but only if we believe it will give a long-term improvement... and I guess that includes Narrative re-retcons if we get lots of bad feedback. Simply reverting to a previous version will create player pain, too.

This is why I'm bald, you see! It's the worry! :-P

TerraRisingNov 30, 20173 votes

{quoted}

A fair question!

Purely because, once we finish something and move on, it takes away from other, newer projects to go back and alter it. And we'd get people saying "Forget that champion! You already did them! Why not MY favourite instead?!" ;-) But I'd always rather wait for the dust to settle on something, as opposed to making any decision in haste. Also, giving more people a chance to see it.

Sounds like Riot's Narrative Department is getting their player interaction training from the Skins/Personalization Team. <shudder>

It's always worth remembering that there are a LOT of decisions that get made behind the scenes before we update a piece of lore/champion/whatever. Again, I'd say that Riot shouldn't ever change something "because we can" but only if we believe it will give a long-term improvement... and I guess that includes Narrative re-retcons if we get lots of bad feedback. Simply reverting to a previous version will create player pain, too.

This feels like a cop-out on many levels.

You say that there are a lot of decisions made behind the scenes, but we're never privy to any of them. For example, the idea of turning Varus from a lone family man desperate for revenge to an imprisoned Darkin that two dumbass hunters somehow released must've come from a bunch of wonderful creative meetings (and I'm sure some very powerful cocktails).

You also say that reverting a bad decision will create player pain, but what about fixing the player pain the bad decisions initially created? If the Varus reveal doesn't pan out like you hope, what then? I've also heard some very mixed feelings about Nautilus's new story as well.

I'm also curious about what the threshold actually is. Is it a majority of fans of the particular champ or a majority of overall players? Are you looking at fans of the lore who read and care about this stuff, or do you consider their opinion equal to the guy who only wants their champ to get buffed every patch and could care less about the backstory?

This is why I'm bald, you see! It's the worry! :-P

I have seen this and will confirm.

Rito Lore TeamNov 30, 20172 votes

{quoted}

A fair question!

Purely because, once we finish something and move on, it takes away from other, newer projects to go back and alter it. And we'd get people saying "Forget that champion! You already did them! Why not MY favourite instead?!" ;-) But I'd always rather wait for the dust to settle on something, as opposed to making any decision in haste. Also, giving more people a chance to see it.

It's always worth remembering that there are a LOT of decisions that get made behind the scenes before we update a piece of lore/champion/whatever. Again, I'd say that Riot shouldn't ever change something "because we can" but only if we believe it will give a long-term improvement... and I guess that includes Narrative re-retcons if we get lots of bad feedback. Simply reverting to a previous version will create player pain, too.

This is why I'm bald, you see! It's the worry! :-P

I deeply care for the Lore in League of Legends(hence my username)... but I feel that no matter how many times these Lore discussions come up between Rioters such as yourself and the more lore focused community nothing really gets changed. This I think is in part due to the situation that Lore is currently in with the majority of players. Many players simply do not care about Lore and only play the game and Lore has no impact on them. I understand that you will not simply cater to the vocal few who hold these discussions because there are many more people out there who do not come into these discussions but still have an opinion. (Ideally I would love to see more Surveys, especially regarding the current state of Lore. They may give some insights and metrics on how well received the updated Champion Bios are post release and the lore of the newer champions)

I have been here since 2010, I have seen the various changes to the Lore of the past 7 years. From my perspective(hopefully keeping the Ruby-tinted glasses off) some of the best Lore that Riot has is the older champion Bios. Some of my favorite stories are that of Lee Sin, Lux, and Irelia. One of my favorite parts of the old lore were the "League Judgements" because they brought a whole new level of depth to the characters. In my mind when I try to compare the current biographies of the newer champions, it ends up one-sided because of the lack of depth the newer champions have. Newer champions lack a solid reason as to "why" they are a champion. (I understand Summoner's and the Institute of War were retconned)

I make an effort to give critiques on Champion's bios when they are released and I enjoy the discussions. There are always multiple points regarding the good and the bad of the champion bios in these discussions but it seems that many of the discussions end up turning towards a more negative direction. It pains me because it really does feel that the years of participation in Lore discussions have been wasted.

TerraRisingDec 1, 20171 votes

{quoted} Again, I'd say that Riot shouldn't ever change something "because we can"...

And yet, we now have Varus, a story that was changed just because you could do it.

Just because you guys could tie in a comic book with a music video and give the LGBT community something more than Taric to latch on to.

I also don't see how this change improves the story. The new Varus Color Text destroys any sense that there's a real struggle between the three entities. In fact, I don't see any reason to give the pair control unless they meet another League of Legends Champion(™) and the plot, game, and ISP requires that the would-be victim survive the encounter.

LíthillyaDec 1, 20171 votes

{quoted}

By the time something hits PBE, from a lore perspective, it's already been translated and locked for the patch. That stuff happens more than a month beforehand, and often earlier.

However, as I've said elsewhere - if new lore gets an overwhelmingly negative reaction from a majority of players, we would consider changing it, no doubt. :-)

Would the change that's hopefully coming to Soraka's retconned lore, now that Warwick's been entirely reworked, count as one of those times? I was personally baffled by how she was retconned from someone shaped by the horrors of war, a symbol to her people who'd ended up falling because she couldn't watch what was done to them without acting, into some daft, celestial unicorn girl who got conned by a dude who wanted her heart for a potion or elixir. One had depth, not to mention a fair bit of tragedy, she lost a large part of who she was because she gave into anger and despair. Is there a chance you'll move back to her having been shaped by the Noxus/Ionia war, and closer to how her lore used to be, when you eventually get around to changing her?

Oh, and is Lux one of the 15-20 champions who got retconned, or was she still more or less torn from her family so she could be recruited into Demacia's military? Getting to see the darker sides of Demcia in her Observation/Reflection was one of my favorite tidbits of lore.

Stars ShaperDec 2, 20171 votes

I don't see you taking back 2 comics and a music video (which is one of the best from LoL anyway) because of a community backlash even if it had hundreds of threads all over the globe and platforms (Boards, Reddit and whatnot) with thousands of upvotes against your changes.

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 29, 20177 votes

This is all true, too.

And I'm no stranger to temporary hostility from upset players. I had the unique pleasure of working at Games Workshop for 6 years... :-P

marpatt11Nov 29, 20173 votes

Hey @scatchlocke, Blitzcrank main here. Ever since I started playing him, I always wondered why blitz in game talks about it being the end for humanity "THE TIME OF MAN HAS COME TO AN END" bones be very breakable "BONE IS A POOR ALTERNATIVE" wanting to make people quake in their boots "Quake in fear, fleshling" etc, when in lore he is pratically a superhero. Going around town stopping robberies, saving cats from trees (or toys from burning buildings). Is there a reason for this? any explaination at all would do. Thanks P.S. love most of the new lore [katarina-love]

Beyond LegendsNov 29, 20174 votes

Blitz needs a vo update along with MF, Leona, Diana, Viktor Jayce and more. Riot haven't done so because well finding and negotiating a contract with a their old VA is kinda hard.

marpatt11Nov 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AE9GL99e,comment-id=000000020000000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-29T04:46:33.020+0000)

Blitz needs a vo update along with MF, Leona, Diana, Viktor Jayce and more. Riot haven't done so because well finding and negotiating a contract with a their old VA is kinda hard.

Yeah I agree 100% [zombie-nunu-bummed] just thought I could get an explaination from a red like "hes joking" or something.

Tesla EffectNov 29, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AE9GL99e,comment-id=000000020000000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-29T04:46:33.020+0000)

Blitz needs a vo update along with MF, Leona, Diana, Viktor Jayce and more. Riot haven't done so because well finding and negotiating a contract with a their old VA is kinda hard.

They could have easily updated VO for Caitlyn when her Voice Actress came in and did Pulsefire Caitlyn. Same for Ezreal when they updated his Pulsefire skin.

Beyond LegendsNov 29, 20171 votes

Yeah don't know why they didn't with those two, but I heard there was a VA strike going in at that time. So maybe it has to do with that

Tesla EffectNov 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AE9GL99e,comment-id=00000002000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2017-11-29T05:04:01.111+0000)

Yeah don't know why they didn't with those two, but I heard there was a VA strike going in at that time. So maybe it has to do with that

How did they manage to do the legendary skin VO then?

Beyond LegendsNov 29, 20172 votes

:p idk, I'm justing going to assume some sort weird union shit.

Sexy Jack RabbitNov 29, 20172 votes

Part of the VA Strike is about taking on more work then what you're covered by.

I.e Riot would of covered the VA's for PF Cait and Ezreal, but not for their base VO's.

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 30, 20172 votes

Truth? Because there was no single vision about character direction for League when this VO was recorded. It could have been a joke, or it could be that the original direction for the champ was more evil and aggressive... :-P

There are dozens of characters that need an update. But we only have 16 Narrative Rioters, and new champions take priority - please, bear with us! And keep the feedback coming!

marpatt11Nov 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Truth? Because there was no single vision about character direction for League when this VO was recorded. It could have been a joke, or it could be that the original direction for the champ was more evil and aggressive... :-P

There are dozens of characters that need an update. But we only have 16 Narrative Rioters, and new champions take priority - please, bear with us! And keep the feedback coming!

Dang........that ending bit just hyped me up. Thanks for the answer! [zombie-nunu-hearts]

Also side note: im wondering if blitz will ever get a VU or VGU with small gameplay updates. Since (idk if this is true or not) I heard that you guys cancelled VU's? can I get confirmation on this possibly. Anyways wasn't expecting an answer so thank you so much. [sg-jinx]

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 29, 20176 votes

There are now three basic elements to the lore for every new champion, and full champion update - 1) Short Bio, 2) Full Bio, 3) Color Text Story.

Short Bios are used anywhere we need a quick summary of the champion, like in the client collection and their Universe landing page.

There will also be short stories, comics, CGs and any number of other narrative pieces. All of these are "the lore"... but a lot of it simply isn't relevant to the majority of people playing League.

The more content we have, and the more it gets updated (note, not "retconned") over time, the more we need a place outside of the client to correlate it all - i.e. Universe. Consider it like the Wikipedia of League lore, for now. :-)

EDIT: A lot of older champions don't have the three basic elements I mentioned. They are now getting them, in addition to the production of new content for new champions and champion updates. All good things.

HellioningNov 29, 20174 votes

An update is a retcon. I don't mind you not wanting to use the term 'retcon', but why specifically say that you're not doing that when you are?

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 30, 20175 votes

Not necessarily - the definition of retcon (retroactive continuity) implies changing something that already existed as "fact". An update could just mean something has been added to the lore, as opposed to changing or completely replacing it. I think only about 15-20 champions have been actively retconned in the new short bios, the rest are going to have MORE lore added to what already exists.

I think people will be surprised just how little some of the champions have changed from the current, inconsistently presented lore, once we get the full bios running. :-)

Will some champions get retconned? Sure. Some of them are old, and they don't hold up to the more recent stuff, or stuff that is currently being worked on... but we will only 100% change something if we see it enabling a long-term improvement in the future.

NefasNov 30, 20173 votes

And who, precisely, do you consider those 15-20 to be?

Because if that’s your number, plenty more have been passively retconned by either ignorance of previous lore, sloppiness, or these “short” bios being so short that they are bad at accurately portraying the champs.

All of this ignores that “only” 15-20 is a lot of retconning.

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 30, 20175 votes

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to talk specifics at this stage. :-)

I would ask - did you think, a month ago, that the lore for every champion and every element of the game was the best it could ever be and nothing should ever change? As an editor I looked at the lore content in the client every day, and I cringed. It was terribly inconsistent. Some champions had THOUSANDS of words, some had a single sentence. Some had quotes, some didn't. Some just had plain bad lore, well out of date compared to everything else.

That's what we're addressing, here, and along the way various other teams at Riot have weighed in and asked us to make changes, to enable other improvements and new stuff in the future.

The champions are all consistent now, in client. The client is for games of League, and the lore lives on Universe as part of the Runeterra setting (which includes more than just League - comics, stories, CGs etc etc etc)

It's not perfect yet, not by a long stretch. But we're moving forward. :-)

NefasNov 30, 20171 votes

I haven't thought anything of the sort in years, let alone months. I've been quite open about that. But Bioluminescence inspired me to spend time giving my opinion about how I think Riot should better handle lore and you are posting about lore changes and seem to be important to the future of lore, judging by your title, so here I am.

I agree with all of your critiques of the current state of lore, which are the same critiques we have heard from past Rioters in similar position. And in spite of those Rioters acknowledging the many problems with lore, those problems still remain. I disagree with many of your solutions as truly fixing the problems with lore. They do not seem to be new ideas, but retreads of the same solutions that Rioters have claimed to be working towards in the past. I think holding Universe at arms length from the client is a mistake. The client ought to be the primary point from which players interact with everything League-related. If you can't or won't put the full lore into the client, there should at least be a tab for each champ that includes the short bio as well as titled links to each of that champ's stories in Universe.

Stars ShaperNov 30, 20171 votes

It's a bit offtopic but... what about Varus full Lore? We were said it would come this week and we are pretty close to the ened of it. ^^

Lady FacelessNov 30, 20172 votes

His new lore should be released a few hours from now.

WinterkillNov 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not necessarily - the definition of retcon (retroactive continuity) implies changing something that already existed as "fact". An update could just mean something has been added to the lore, as opposed to changing or completely replacing it. I think only about 15-20 champions have been actively retconned in the new short bios, the rest are going to have MORE lore added to what already exists.

I think people will be surprised just how little some of the champions have changed from the current, inconsistently presented lore, once we get the full bios running. :-)

Will some champions get retconned? Sure. Some of them are old, and they don't hold up to the more recent stuff, or stuff that is currently being worked on... but we will only 100% change something if we see it enabling a long-term improvement in the future.

So Karma was completely re-imagined again? Karma is one of the 15-20 champions you did this to and refuse to address? Why did you do this? She is very bland, has no place in the world, and is not very creative. This character is a Avatar the AIrbender knock off with nothing. Don't tell me . . . . . . give you time to give us a story about Karma buying shield enhancing items and sitting in the back pressing E+R? You guys basically removed her role as a leader and mage. Karma now only heals people and is unimportant.

I really have zero faith in your ability to do anything competent on Karma at this point. The Lore Team is now showing us you are about as incompetent as the Developers who ruined her 5 years ago.

HellioningNov 30, 20171 votes

Oh, you're talking about the 'new' short bios that are actively coming up? Not the ones already released?

Because almost all of those are retcons.

In any event, if true, that'd be nice.

Tesla EffectNov 29, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Correct. The patch notes are quite clear - they are "short bios" to make sure every champion has the same, minimum level of lore on the client. For everything else, you should check out Universe. :-)

Unless there is a DIRECT contradiction between the client and the stuff on Universe, then the champion's lore has not been altered at this stage. I've seen a lot of people getting discouraged by "changes" made to their mains, when in fact it's just our writers/editors working against the very short word count...

You should really focus on introducing Universe site into the client itself, connect it in a way that I dont need to open another internet window to read the full lore of any given champion. Seeing only short bios in the client is incredibly disappointing since the new client has so much potential to integrate everything nicely.

Warlord DienekesNov 29, 20175 votes

Honestly, I kind of think the people coming in to complain about new lore updates is a good thing.

They give Riot a look at what the fans of the champions think is important about the champions. They get a foundation to work on when they do get around to actually rewriting their lores.

RiotRiot ScathlockeNov 29, 20176 votes

This. All of this.

If Riot published new lore for a champion and we got OVERWHELMINGLY negative feedback - guess what? We'd change it. :-)

However, as has already been said, these are only previews. We'd wait until we got feedback on an ACTUAL lore update before making decisions like that.

Warlord DienekesNov 29, 20177 votes

{quoted}

This. All of this.

If Riot published new lore for a champion and we got OVERWHELMINGLY negative feedback - guess what? We'd change it. :-)

However, as has already been said, these are only previews. We'd wait until we got feedback on an ACTUAL lore update before making decisions like that.

Huh, well I’m glad you guys are taking all of this into consideration.

And on that note, the Pantheon lore is terrible.

Beyond LegendsNov 29, 20172 votes

Well that's because we didn't get pantheon 's lore. We got atreus instead

Warlord DienekesNov 29, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beyond Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AE9GL99e,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-29T04:19:09.807+0000)

Well that's because we didn't get pantheon 's lore. We got atreus instead

Nah Atreus was awesome. It’s Pantheon that sunk that whole lore down.

Rinký DinkyNov 29, 20174 votes

I disagree.

I'm awaiting the arc where Atreus assumes Direct Control over his body in order to bake the perfect cake.

It will happen.

Do not deny me this.