[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=10ElAvA0,comment-id=000400010000,timestamp=2017-06-05T01:40:06.810+0000)
The shield made a great defensive member of the Spartan armaments as it did an offensive member. The reason for this is that it had a fair amount of weight behind it. It could be a quite useful blunt weapon if your enemy was heavily armored.
Yes, they were very heavy. Around 16-20 lbs, for reference the average sword of the time weighed about 1.5 lbs. and their spears weighed 3-6 lbs. Their shield was so heavy, that we know for a fact that they had them balanced on their shoulder. Not being swung around by a heavy weight champion. Remember, Spartans were small. Only around 5'4" and they didn't have steroids and protein shakes like we do today. You don't swing that thing around all that much.
Furthermore we have several references to the phalanx "locking their shields" and that phalanxes drifted to the side because people sought to protect themselves by hiding behind the next guys shield. If your shields are overlapping with the guy next to you, you're definitely not using them as a bludgeoning weapon.
I mean, you can, if you have nothing left. I'm certain that sometime during the history of Sparta someone was beaten to death with their shield. But it's still not their primary method of killing people. That's the spear.
And I'm not saying that their weapons were made of broken glass and had no value, it's just that, out of all of their armaments, the shield could be used effectively both defensively and offensively.
Sure, but they were far less effective offensively than, say, a spear. Which is why basically every Ancient society had their primary weapon as a spear (or bows, sometimes. Or swords, if you're specifically the Romans)
Spartans weren't the only ones to take advantage of this in human history either. Nearly every soldier that used a shield did so with the understanding that it was a large piece of metal/wood that separated them from their opponent's weapon. To believe that shields weren't important is to resign yourself to Dark Souls logic and say "Well, they're only good for parrying."
I never said they weren't important. They were insanely important, like I said, they're what made the phalanx function. Without a shield to overlap with each other, all they have are a bunch of guys that can shot at by volleys of arrows until they all die. Shields were probably their most important piece of equipment. But they weren't their weapon.
If you knock away their spear, they have a shield and sword. If you knock away their sword, they have a spear and shield. If you knock away their shield, they have a spear and sword and neither of those are going to provide as much protection and raw force than their shields would.
Raw force doesn't actually win battles. This has been true from the dawn of time all the way to around the 14th century when armor became so all encompassing that you do start to see the great anti-armor weapons start to become popular: like a poleaxe, or a mace, and interestingly, during this time shield usage dwindled. At least among the guys that could afford that awesome all encompassing armor.
At the time of the Spartans, they were wearing the best armor for their time. And it still leaves gaps all along the arm, the neck, the legs (depending on how wealthy the spartan was of course, the wealthiest went to battle with greaves, the poorest were allowed to join the phalanx with only a spear and a shield and no armor at all). Which is why they have the shield, this was one of the biggest, heaviest shield of their time period. Only surpassed by the Roman scutum, and centuries latter by the pavise. It was supposed to be slung on your shoulder at an angle to protect your body from your chin down to your knee, and if you move that around to swing at the people around you, you're exposing not just yourself, but the people near you to attacks.
Also, using 2 shields?
Really?
If shields are their greatest offensive tool? Yeah, two shields would be the way to go, because they give you the best offense and defense.
Except, they don't. Shields all told are not actually that good of weapons. Yes, if you get someone in a perfect position, and you swing your arm back leaving yourself completely exposed, and slam it forward into their sternum, and you will probably kill them. And during that entire time, a much quicker and longer weapon (like a spear, or a sword) would have already stabbed you, because you're opening yourself up to attack like an idiot.
From what treatises we see, shield bashes don't really work like that. Instead they're more like quick jabs to knock people off balance, or as a way to beat off their weapon.
Mind you, those are written from medieval Germany, since we don't have actual fighting treatises from the Ancient Greek period. But that information is corroborated by what little scraps we have from Greek and Roman sources. Namely, that shields overlap, that the descriptions of people dying almost always mention them dying from spear, sword, or arrow, and just going out to do it yourself. The aspis shield is powerful, but it's so cumbersome, and anyone who isn't already crippled will just get out of the way if you ever try to swing that thing at you.
,so I think spear of Targon would be better for Pantheon.
