A Look at a Possible Connection between Shurima and Targon. Look just bear with me here.

Sharjo··33 votes·16,050 views

Edit: As Bio and several others pointed out, I had a mistake with the way the rivers flow in Shurima. It's still weird, but weird in a different way, so I've ammended the post.

So Shurima is a wonderful, but also pretty strange place. Mount Targon is also a wonderful, but pretty strange place, and I’ve been wondering about some specific things about Shurima, particularly the city of Shurima itself, for a long time now. Recently I’ve had some thoughts rolling about, and wanted to share them with you all, as even though I don’t consider this theorising very strong on my part, it could at the very least just open up the discussion and get some further thoughts on the topics I’m going to broach.

So what’s the main subject of this post? Simply put, I think that Shurima and Targon have ties together, this being the empire, not the mountain, though I will talk about the mountain to. In more specific terms, I think that the Shuriman Empire owes a great deal of its ancient secrets to Targon.

Some of you are already tilting your head at this and I don’t blame you at all; this could very well be so far out of left field that it’s laughable, but humor me at least, ok guys?

Alright, so first thing to discuss:


http://i.imgur.com/KvDtYRv.jpg

##Shurima is a very strange city.##

It is really. Deep within its bowels you can find the Oasis of the Dawn, and somehow many rivers in the Southern Continent flow towards it, flowing INLAND as opposed to flowing out too the sea. The city itself seems to have some ancient magic tied to it, which seemingly allows it to rebuild itself, rearrange its components and reanimate the dead...yeah it’s strange. I’ll break down the specifics here on what’s actually going on and why this is so strange.

So firstly, the Oasis of the Dawn is a font of natural energies, and it isn’t Runeterra’s only such font; the Blessed Isles had one before the Ruination and one could also stipulate that the God-Willow of Omikayalan as such a font as well. How these things tie in to each other is a theory for another day, but the important thing here is how the Oasis works and how it interacts with the city, and the main thing here is that the Oasis, while being similar to the sacred pools of the isles, did something that the pools couldn’t do: revive the dead. Sivir, who was described as being a corpse when Azir found her, was revived, while the Ruined King’s wife was simply re-animated and the pools themselves corrupted. What’s the difference?

There’s also the fact that Sivir’s resurrection was one of two to occur in a short space of time, as Azir was revived, seemingly by magic within the city of Shurima itself. He wasn’t a truly living being, as he was and still is effectively sand given form, but he was wrenched back from death all the same.

Then there are other details, such as how rivers flow backward, towards the capital, instead of out towards the sea. such as how the rivers flow out from the capital in to the lands, up waterways that should flow in the opposite direction, even up mountains. The waters come from the Oasis of course, but the fact that the city can draw forth this waters from below the soil and sending them out on a continental scale is astounding in and of itself. There’s also the seemingly trivial detail of how Nasus “discovered” the Tomb of the Emperors, which raises the question:

How did you not know that this tomb was in your city?

And perhaps more interesting; what else did the Shurimans not know about their capital if you can discover various elements to it thousands of years after first setting up in it?

I personally feel like this could tie in to the way that Shurima was restored, with Azir being able to bring the city up from the dust, though I would say that Azir had as much of a part to play in this process as the city itself. The city itself responded to Azir in his human form, refilling the Oasis as he came towards it. The Sun Disc rose again, seemingly of its own accord. There’s more here than is immediately evident, and the scale and potency of the magic presented here exceeds anything humans in Runeterra have ever shown to be capable of (as far as we know anyway). It begs the question of who built the city and how.

In that vein, the Sun Disc also raises its own questions, considering the size and immense power behind it, as well as what its power did for people exposed to it. World Runes are a possibility of course, and since we know Shurimans actually built the Sun Disc that they could very well have constructed a city with as much power as Shurima does, but how did they make the Sun Disc? What allowed the Shurimans to create these amazing wonders?


http://i.imgur.com/yi1Wbck.jpg

##Mount Targon is a very strange mountain.##

An enormous mountain in the middle of nowhere that challenges those who ascend to its peak, besieging them with visions of the past and seemingly also changing its shape in order to test those who try and ascend to its highest peaks. In every case it is stated that it is the mountain is the one that tests the climber, but in some cases it is an Aspect of Targon that brings people to the summit, namely Diana, who had been guided there by the Aspect of the Silver Moon.

Mount Targon, while also being a place that Targon accesses in order to find worthy hosts and also monitors in the wake of void invasions, it’s also a place of spatial convergence, as glimmering mist comes down across the mountain, bringing with it otherworldly beings seemingly not of Targon or the Void.

The shapes and features of the Mountain lend to the idea that Mount Targon was perhaps shaped and moulded in to what it is today; that their works, be they physical or magical, permeate the mountain itself. You can see it in the main art piece for Mount Targon; circular shapes carved in to the mountain in evidently intentional shapes, and part of the mountain straight up goes invisible or something in the background. It’s just plain odd. I’ve personally leant towards the idea that Mount Targon, while likely a natural mountain, was physically and magically altered by Targon in ages past, and was perhaps smaller back then too.


http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/AurelionSol_0.jpg

##Shurima and Mount Targon are strange in similar ways.##

In terms of architecture, Targonian creations have a similar sweeping curvature to them as we can see in Shurima’s palaces. Targonian stuff could be considered smoother and more refined but the similarities are there, which is especially notable when looking at Aurelion Sol’s splash, where the platforms he is looking down upon take this visual similarity with Shurima to a whole new level, as well as his crown, which looks similar enough to the Sun Disc that perhaps they’re made of the same stuff, though how Shurimans got their hands on star gems is beyond me. Taric’s mace also shares this look, and even has something spherical in the centre, like Shurima itself.

Both of these places are magical locales with the magic itself being seemingly not anything to do with their location but with the place itself. The magic has something that it draws back to, drives itself, or has someone behind it pulling the strings in some manner.

Both places have physically altered themselves, with Mount Targon’s peaks and cliffs being inconsistent and unchartable, while the city of Shurima has rebuilt itself after a little coaxing from Azir. Continuing on that point both locales seem to have some force driving them, either the areas themselves or a greater power behind them, which has already hinted at being the reason behind Azir’s Ascension, though in that case it’s more about the Sun Disc specifically rather than the city.

If I trace the line of logic back to Mount Targon being perhaps partially Targon made as opposed to an all natural mountain, then both of these locales are also mortal made to an extent, and if that’s true for Mount Targon that makes the city of Shurima with the Sun Disc and Mount Targon the greatest feats of magical construction ever conceived on Runeterra, period (as far as we’ve seen thus far anyway).


##A disclaimer before we go on:##

Now before going further, I want to pull things back and be real here: This connection is perhaps entirely coincidental, and if you’re not following my train of thought on this, then I don’t blame you. I’m not entirely convinced by this myself. I don’t subscribe to this as being a strong theory in any regard, and so question me about this all you like; there’s likely something I’ve missed that totally destroys this theory.

In the end this is more of entertaining some theories than me coming around and saying “OMG GUYS I FIGURED OUT THE MYSTERY”, so take it as such. Ok, now on to the main point of all of this.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/3/3e/Shurima_Rising.png/revision/latest?cb=20161123023203


##Basically, the city of Shurima might be Targon made.##

The city of Shurima does some astounding things, like being tied to a pool of restorative waters, being able to make rivers flow outward from it in impossible ways, reassembling itself, resurrecting the dead and more. It goes deep in to the earth and is a place of great power. Given the extent of what we’ve seen humans capable of doing in Runeterra, I’d say that the city of Shurima itself being built or at least designed by Targon isn’t all that farfetched, considering what it can do. If Targon can make a mountain a connection point between worlds/realities, then they can make a city draw forth life giving waters from deep within the earth. Hell that might’ve been Shurima’s original purpose if it was made/designed by Targon.

There are alternative ways of thinking about this too, for instance Shurima might not have been made by the true Targon, but based off of their work, or an Aspect had a hand in it’s construction. This could also be true for the Sun Disc; based off of Targonian designs and prior work, as opposed to directly made by them. Another way of thinking about this is that it’s all wrong and there’s no connection, which is a pretty good theory I’d say, but hey, indulge me for a minute ok?


##So if this theory holds any weight, what does it mean really?##

The thing about this theory is that it really only helps in regards to the question of “How did the Shurimans even come about making the Sun Disc”. In that regard if Shurima was Targon built or influenced, then the Shurimans could’ve based the Sun Disc off of the left over Targonian works, be they artifacts or just learning from the city itself. Potentially the Sun Disc was something the Targonians wanted to build or had already built before, and took with them when they left Runeterra, leaving behind the plans or means to construct it.

It also to a degree satisfies the answer of “what’s behind the Ascension ritual”, considering that it was some higher power that seemed to deem folks worthy of Ascension, rather than the Sun Priests themselves. They were perhaps heralding the word of that greater power, and while there’s a good argument to be made that the Stars themselves have wills of their own, Targon directing Shurima could be a possibility too, with the hope perhaps being to foster a mortal army on Runeterra to protect it in their stead, perhaps as an alternative plan to the whole Aspect angle. Or perhaps it could’ve have been a more benevolent plan where Targon hoped to elevate humans to a higher plane of existence through this ritual, in a similar manner to perhaps they went through, since it’s likely the original Targonians were beings of flesh and blood who became all celestial and stuff later.

A few questions are raised by this theory though, so let’s go through them:

- Why would Targon build Shurima in the first place?

Personally, I’d say it was because of the Oasis of the Dawn. Targon’s plan might’ve been to tap in to those waters buried deep within the earth and keep it strong by forcing the rivers of the land to flow back in to the Oasis redistribute them over the lands that would later be named Shurima. The entire purpose of the city might’ve been to keep this wellspring going distribute these life giving waters across the length and breadth of the lands for all to drink and be rejuvinated by, which might’ve been important if Targon faced a calamitous conflict in the past. What better way to keep your nation alive than through life giving waters?

If we also draw to the point of Shurima not always being a desert, then perhaps in the past the land went through desertification, and Targon hoped to revitalize the land by drawing from the Oasis’s waters. How it would dry up again after this though I dunno. Potentially Shurima’s misuse of magic or stuff with Icathia? Not sure. Lots of questions and I don’t posit that any of these answers are flawless or even remotely correct.

- How did Shurima come to be then?

If we assume that Shurima lay abandoned after Targon left Runeterra, then it was probably discovered by humans at some point and became a fabled place of legend. It only takes one intrepid, daring individual with a lust for riches, power or glory to then scour the lands for such a place. It could even be something more humble, like the city just being stumbled upon after a long time and folks clamouring around it and the waters within. If we draw from the Targon influencing Shurima angle, then perhaps they used the city’s magic in some way to coerce people to find the city, or draw them directly to it.

- How did the Shurimans even work the city to begin with?

I’d certainly say it would either be an accident or the city responding to the presence of humans within it, though given the fact that the city reacted to Azir specifically, perhaps the city became or was attuned to one person in particular, who would go on to be the ancestor of Shurima’s lineage of emperors. Again on the Targon angle, perhaps they saw a human with potential and decided they’d make a good candidate for “host of the city” so to speak, making the city react to them and their bloodline.

- Why would the city need to re-arrange itself?

I’d say as a defensive measure more than anything. If you can keep potential invaders lost and confused while having the means to navigate the city yourself, then you’re at a major advantage in any bad situation. This might’ve been why Shurimans only discovered the tomb of the emperors centuries later, the city did some rearranging after being besieged by some foe, and when it was taken back the city didn’t rearrange itself because they lacked the means to undo the protective measures.

- What if Targon didn’t build the city?

In this angle the theory could still hold water if we consider they were probably still choosing folks to be Aspects back in the early days of mankind. Perhaps an Aspect of the past had the idea to build the city, with an express purpose in mind.

There are plenty of questions and probably many more I haven’t even broached, but I’ll let anyone willing to ask go ahead and I’ll try and think of an answer, though there’s no guarantees there even is one.


##Ok are you done with your crackpot theory?##

Aye I am. TL;DR is I think maybe possibly perhaps I dunno whatever that the city of Shurima (and also the Sun Disc) owe their creation to Targon, either directly or indirectly.

If you got through this to the end, then thanks for giving this weird theory the time of day. Again, I don’t hold strong weight to this, it’s just a thread of speculation I’ve been chasing for a bit now because god dammit that city makes me curious about so many things. SO MANY.

Before leaving this I just wanna put out one little thing: you’ve got two magical areas on the same landmass with a whole bunch of mysteries surrounding them, which in itself doesn’t feel like a coincidence, but then there’s also the idea that Targon’s only mark left on Runeterra after their departure was Mount Targon itself, which seems unrealistic no? Surely they left something behind?

But yeah, whether this is a load of bollocks or maybe something, thanks for reading!

58 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear11 votes

Came because Shurima and Sharjo. Wasn't disappointed.

If this was actually a real thing you stumbled upon, this would be the very first time that two nations (well, one nation and a mountain) are intrinsically linked, with one being the fore-bearer of the other.

As Shaper noted, the magic used for Ascension is quite similar to Aurelion's, indeed they practically worship the power of a star. While it is entirely possible for humans to learn to harness the magical energy of a star, it's even more likely that a race already well versed in harnessing that kind of magic (the original Targonians), built this place first, then left it to Shurima's emperors.

However, I would like to suggest that Shurima was in fact a thriving city without the need to break apart or pull itself back together. As it was protected by Ascended in its prime, I doubt such a feature was necessary. What I feel is more likely is that the only reason Shurima fell into the sands was because of Xerath and his errant Ascension, the intense explosion of magical energy shattering the Sundisk, whose power was likely what kept the city together, because the way it is constructed, it can't stay together without magic.

However some of the Sundisk survived the cataclysm, and was just enough to keep the city's lifegiving waters alive, and was able to, with proper coaxing, able to resurrect someone capable of bringing the city back to it's prime. Azir.

I believe that the shard of the sundisk not only resurrected Azir and Ascended him, but also imbued him with the very essence of the Sun disk, and he pulled the city back from sands.

So to support my theory, Exhibit A: Azir's design/armor.

http://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Azir_0.jpg

So my first observation is why Azir out of the other three ascended beings we see Nasus, Renekton, Xerath, his armor and staff are not only nearly completely gold, but also decked out with Sun Disk symbolism?

It may just be because Gold is considered a royal color, but another factor to consider is the animal he assumed the appearance of.

The half-animal Ascended have an underlying reason for their forms.

For Nasus, the Jackal in Ancient Egyptian culture was a sacred animal, so much so that Anubis, the god of the dead, was a man with a jackal head. This is referenced by Nasus in his abilities and lore. His Spirit Fire, Wither, and Siphoning Strike all reference death or the withering or drawing out of spirits. In lore Nasus was a scholar that was suffering from an illness that made him slowly wither away.

Renekton is rather self-explanatory, so I'll be brief. Crocodiles are ferocious beasts, Renekton was a very capable warrior, known as the Butcher of the Sands even before his Ascension.

Now for Azir. He is part falcon/hawk. In ancient Egypt this references the god Horus, from whom Pharaoh was said to be incarnated from. He was the god of the sky, and the symbol and protector of Pharaoh. In LoL this makes sense because Azir is a ruler, but two more things should be known: Horus was later known as the uniter of Ancient Egypt, and is represented by a winged sun disk.

One more piece of evidence. Azir's staff, the upper portion, looks like half of a sun disk.

This is why I believe that after the ancient piece of the sun disk revived Azir, he was imbued with the power of the sun disk itself, which is why unlike any other Ascendant known, he is able to bring others back to life through sand, and is able to pull the ancient city out of the sands single-handedly. He has the power to create, much like the sun disk.

I hope this makes sense, a thank you if you made it through my rambling.

RiotBioluminescence10 votes

Super interesting read, Sharjo.

I see Shaper pointed out the Aurelion Sol story - the only example we have of a 'first hand' account of the building of the Sun Disk.

There is a question I have, and maybe (as the master of references) you can help me out? Where is it said that the rivers flow towards (the city of) Shurima? Maybe I got confused (it happens) but I thought that the river flowed out of the capital - even towards the mountains to the West.

Otherwise, this thread is magical. TyrekGoldenspear's thoughts on the armor and symbology of Azir is great too.

Random aside, while I love many of the Shuriman cities (including the capital) I admit that the capital itself is almost too weird for me to wrap my head around. The sheer scale of it beggars belief, and when I try to imagine myself walking the marketplaces at the bottom of some of those artificial chasms, my imagination just fails. Would there be, at that depth, just minutes of sunlight reaching them? Do they reflect sunlight down there? Do they keep the lowest levels for things other than trivial marketplaces and living areas? It's almost Kowloon Walled City like in its verticality, which sets it as the third highly vertical living space in Runeterra that I know of - but certainly the most lavish and palacial in its heyday (and maybe again?)

For reals, though - Nashramae is my favourite. I also know it as the Palace of Flowers, but I'm not sure they ever made that (very ancient Shuriman) name canon, so please don't take it as such.

Hold your tears another day ‘Til we can bathe in flowers At Nashrimae we’ll wash your feet and Sleep in cooler hours”

Sharjo5 votes

The main area I got the "flow towards Shurima" from comes from Taliyah's short story "The Bird and the Branch", where the following occurs:

“It’s a bit more common now that your people’s lost city has risen.” Taliyah looked up. “What?” “Word has it the rivers flow backward too.” The merchant waved a hand in the air, poking fun at the mysteries of a far-off people he considered simple. “All because your bird-god has returned from the grave.”

Though I'm likely misremembering it as in Taliyah's other short story, since there it states:

The people of her tribe had followed the seasonal waters for hundreds of years. The best chance of finding her family was to follow the water, and to Taliyah’s dismay, the water in Shurima now flowed from a single source as it had in ages past.

So yeah, that's a fo par on my part, as I assumed from the "backwards" wording that the implication was the rivers flowed inland towards the capital, as opposed to outward, going across the land and up any which way they chose.

I'm dumb.

I wouldn't care I've read One Piece and that manga has an example just like this, where waters flows up from all four seas, up the reverse mountain, before dropping off in to the Grand Line.

So yeah, sorry about that; I messed up, the rivers are weird, I just screwed up on why they are weird. Though there's still the implication of how the city does this in the first place and what kind of monumental power you need to bring forth those life giving waters from beneath the earth and then send them flowing out in to the lands of Shurima.

Back to the city though, yeah it's mind boggling. It makes for a poor city at the end of the day as far as I can see, leading me to believe that it perhaps wasn't ever intended to be lived in by a great many people, but was made specifically to draw water from the Oasis; a facility for water distribution.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Just, in general, rivers don't really flow towards mountains, unless you get a really weird case where between the city and the mountains there is some sort of lake that then empties out into the ocean.

Sharjo1 votes

Well they do in Shurima, because their capital city is god damn weird.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

But... why? That'd require water to move against gravity and topography, and even then, if said river doesn't empty into the ocean in some way the water will stagnate, become ovregrown with algae and just be useless.

I get that Shurima is weird, but that's just self defeating if some mage did that.

Sharjo1 votes

It's useful in a land which is very barren and needs water distributed. It's also water from a magical pool of life giving waters, so not just ordinary water.

Also it stands to reason at least some of these rivers flow back to the sea.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Now you're describing an aqueduct or canal system of water distribution, which sure, people did that all the time. I wouldn't really call that water flowing toward the mountain though.

As to the second bit, that goes back to the "unless you get a really weird case where between the city and the mountains there is some sort of lake that then empties out into the ocean." part of my first post.

Sharjo1 votes

The thing is given the Oasis itself is filled with magical restorative waters the rivers flowing out from it likely carry similar properties, preventing them from being easily polluted or being affected by things that would otherwise make water undrinkable.

I know falling back to the idea of "It's magic so I ain't gotta explain shit" isn't the most satisfying, but it's exactly what's happening here. Magical water and a magical city that distributes it out to the rest of Shurima. I mean if we wanna get super technical then it could be that where the rivers flowed up in to the mountains new rivers then flowed back down out towards the sea. Either way the Shurimans had a system set up to distribute water across their lands that defied normal conventions of physics, and it stemmed from them having access to pontent magic that likely fuelled the whole process.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Why would healing waters stop algae growth? They're not pollutants they're living organisms, if anything wouldn't healing waters make them grow more?

Oh, sure, magic solves everything is probably the right answer, I just enjoy poking fun at poorly explained nonsense magic. Especially for silly things that could have been fixed in about 1 sentence and bothering to do a minute of research.

Also, aren't oasis' formed by underground rivers? If the rivers are overground isn't it just a lake?

Sharjo1 votes

Well I mean considering that the waters of the Oasis are likely similar to those of the Blessed Isles then producing algae's probably not really the biggest concern since growing plantlife and revitalising the land's also a big incentive to distribute that water. Plus if they have the ability to make these rivers flow up bloody mountains they probably have the means to get rid of any algae or anything else in the water such that it's safe to drink.

The Oasis itself is basically underground in the bowels of the city of Shurima and likely finds its source from even deeper within the earth. Since we don't know what was there before the city the Oasis could've been above ground at one point or it was always underground and was unearthed by whoever made the city.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Yes, they totally could make a magic spell that seems to destroy algae, and go up mountains.

Why this is silly, is because neither of these things would be necessary if the river was just described like a normal river. Something like this:

The magic river coming from the mountains are being irrigated to distribute the waters to run through the city of Shurima. These waters were pooled into a large underground well by the early mages who designed the city.

And done, the water now has all the benefits that it currently has, uses the proper terminology, and makes physical sense.

Sharjo1 votes

Not really because in this case the water comes from the mountain and not the pools, so it's in no way magical.

The reason I even came to make this thread in the first place is because the capital city is so god damn weird in that not only is it just strange in terms of features, but it's also a shit capital considering it looks virtually uninhabitable for anything more than a few hundred nobles and the emperors, when you'd expect a capital city to be teeming with people. It almost feels like the city was never meant to be a city, but became so later when people decided to live in it.

The entire premise of the capital being so strange as a capital is omitted if it was never meant to be so by whoever originally made it, which I stipulated to be Targon because...well I imagine you've read at least some of my diatribe on it, and then Shurimans shacked up there eons later.

I mean there can be a bunch of reasons, contrived probably but at least workable to explain why the city wasn't built on a mountain or anywhere high, in that you have a Blessed Isles situation where you've got access too one one source of water and that's it. There's no where else you can find it and trying to force another such pool to appear would take exponentially more effort than just using what's already there.

I mean really I should stop here because our discussion won't go anywhere; you and I have different ways of looking at things, considering I'm here trying to pull out a whole bunch of narrative threads to come up with explanations because it's mystical and magical enough to be inherently interesting for me, where as you're seemingly put off by the weirdness to the point it's immersion breaking and makes you question the writing and thought behind the story itself. Apologies if I'm assuming incorrectly there, that's just the vibes I'm getting from our discourse at the moment.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

Eh, then the waters come from an aquifer under the city which, when overflows spread out toward the ocean, with the people creating a complex irrigation system to spread the water out into other directions. Same thing really.

You're assumption is not wrong, exactly. The random weirdness that doesn't seem to really add anything I find amusing more than anything else, but it doesn't really break my immersion in the story itself. For example, Discworld. Discworld does not make any sense, it doesn't even try to make sense, things are brought up in one book and ignored in another. Some rather major setting details are just changed based on Pratchett's whims, and the magic is based entirely on what would work in the story. I love Discworld. I just also enjoy thinking about all the weird details that make no sense. I really see this world like Discworld, there is a lot if interesting stories, a lot of random things, but I have no delusions that there is some Tolkien-esque complexity behind everything.

Because ultimately, whether the river flows toward a mountain or away from a mountain matters about 0 to a story. Don't get me wrong, I literally learned the way rivers flow and caves are developed and shorelines are shaped from a 101 writing class, the 1 lesson on worldbuilding. So when writers get it wrong, I find it silly. But that's it. Just a bit of silliness.

Yotsugi DoIl1 votes

Your comment about Shurima being such a badly made city that it seems as if it was never meant to be a city in the first place reminded me of a few Aurelion Sol quotes, namely:

"In a vast stretch of desert, I feel the twinge of familiar magic emanating from the seat of the premiere civilization amongst these savages."

"This world holds the key to Targon's undoing."

and his quotes towards Azir and Renekton, mocking their Ascension rite:

"Your immortality is but a grain of sand in time's vast desert."

"That whole practice of Ascension is adorably amusing, like a kitten trying to walk upright."

The process of Ascension isn't perfect. Last I heard the Ascended weren't quite as "immortal" as they had their lifespans drastically elongated and their physical and/or magical capabilities amplified to the point where, from the perspective of your average Joe Blogs, they are effectively immortal demi-gods. But as I understand it, the Ascended can still die of old age and be killed. (Though I love exploring all the lore and fluff I haven't had much time to do so for a while and honestly don't know if this is still correct and might be mixing things up, please do forgive me and correct me if I'm wrong)

What I'm thinking, is that Shurima is inspired by and designed similarly to Targon's "technology" but not affiliated to the Targon Empire, Shurima's Ascended being a poor/imperfect imitation of Targon's Aspects. I know that Mount Targon isn't where the Aspects are "created", rather where they are implemented into physical bodies, but due to the similarities between Shurima and Mt Targon, what if the Sun Disc was created by someone originally from Targon who knows of the process by which the Aspects are brought into being. The reason for the Ascended only being a mere imitation of the Aspects could be due to the limited resources/technology available to this Targon "renegade" in Runeterra at the time.

I guess what I'm thinking of is something along the lines of the setting for the series Dimension W, just in case anyone knows what I'm on about. (Yes I am a bit of a weeb, please don't hurt me ;_;)

(This analogy is more to make sure this all makes sense in my head and on paper as I don't have a particularly good way with words) In short, in Dimension W, New Tesla Energy is a company that all but controls the world thanks to a new way of harnessing energy, their influence being held up by 60 massive Pylon-like buildings around the globe, Dr Yurizaki being the founder of this company and the person who invented the coils, the key to NTE's success. He then went into hiding after the DAB (a sort of regulating body for the company if you like, like Health&Safety for any establishments dealing with food) tried to steal his research and ended up killing his wife and daughter. He managed to stay hidden for a while as he obviously knows how the whole system works and thus how to erase his presence from the view of NTE, all the while using the coil technology to find a way to combat the system. The analogies I'm trying to draw here are:

  • New Tesla Energy being like the Targon Empire
  • The coils being like the Aspects in the sense of them being keys of their respective successes
  • The "pylon-like" buildings being like Mt Targon in the sense of them being the seat of their powers in different parts of the world in NTE's case and on different worlds in different dimensions in Targon's case
  • Dr Yurizaki being like this Targon renegade who built Shurima and the Sun Disc, in the sense that they both have intrinsic knowledge of the keys of their respective ruling powers' successes and thus were able to hide from them (Shurima was virtually impossible to find for anyone other than Azir's blood until Azir was brought back from the dead. Although I don't particularly like "Yeah! Magic b*tch!" solutions, probably due to a magical mechanism embedded in the city which was preventing anyone from Targon from noticing it. Maybe no one at all being able to find the place after the whole Xerath/Azir incident was this mechanism going into overdrive.)
  • Dr Yurizaki also being like this nameless Targon renegade, using their knowledge of the "keys" to find a way to bring the ruling structure down.

This last point is the one I want to develop upon. From the words of the A. Sol himself, we can deduce that the magic employed at Shurima is the same as another he has felt before, i.e. Targon's. If the Aspects are the key, or at least a key, to Targon's success (which I hope they are, otherwise my whole spiel mostly falls apart), understanding how they come into being/how they are made also gives knowledge of how they are undone/killed. The Aspects being seemingly immortal consciousnesses or spirits that are placed in a body, like those of the people who manage to scale Mt Targon, and are completely unaffected by the death of those bodies sound pretty hard to dispose of. If the Sun Disc and the Ascension rite are even imperfect imitations of the Aspects, anyone who knew the workings of the Sun Disc would know at least in part the workings of whatever process creates the Aspects and thus would hold the key to causing the downfall of these Aspects.

Now until now I've referred to the Ascended as being imitations of the Aspects, perhaps as our renegade was unable to finish "in time" or lacked the appropriate resources for rebuilding the system completely, or maybe none of the bodies used in the Ascension have been of "sufficient quality" to sustain the proper process. (Remember how only a select few people have ever made it to the top of Mt Targon, and of those even fewer were chosen to become an Aspect, presumably only those of "high enough quality" to endure the process.) That is, until now.

Well, I say now, I mean a millennium or two ago, back when Xerath and Azir were still human. See, as far as I know, all the Ascended have had a single, physical body like Nasus and Renekton (I believe there was speculation around Rammus possibly being Ascended too? Anyways), having lifespans of many centuries but ultimately perishing with their bodies. Xerath and Azir on the other hand, neither of them has a physical body anymore! Xerath was pretty much turned into a being of pure energy (the bits of metal surrounding Xerath are fragments of the sarcophagus Nasus and Renekton used to try and imprison him after he ascended) and Azir is basically sand given form. Not having any 1 physical body, sound like anything? Sounds fairly similar to the Aspects if you ask me. (Probably shouldn't ask me though, I did just spend ages trying and most likely failing to use anime to try and fill in a theory about some fluff from a video game.)

All this to say, Shurima may have been a facility to attempt producing Aspects, Azir and Xerath possibly being the "key to Targon's undoing" Aurelion Sol is looking for. Although whoever constructed this place, probably the only one who actually knows how it works, is evidently long-gone, the city being eventually turned into a capital by people who gathered there over time due to the Oasis in its depths and started using the facilities, i.e. the Sun Disc and the Ascension process, oblivious of the original purpose :^)

Thank you and sorry to anyone brave/foolish enough to read this all the way through and attempt to make any sense of it! I very much hope this made some iota of sense to someone out there, as this ended up being a lot longer and taking a lot more time than I first anticipated. I will now go and enjoy the sweet release of overdue sleep summoner 1

SushïSenseï1 votes

You do understand that this is a game? You're taking this way too far lol.

Warlord Dienekes1 votes

And here I thought that the whole point of the conversation was I don't particularly take the setting seriously, and just enjoy pointing out basic worldbuilding oddities.

But, this does bring up an interesting point of debate; are we supposed to be engaged in the world of Runeterra and the stories developed from Riot's narrative team?

If we're not, then, well, what the Hell is Riot doing spending money on a Narrative Team? And what is Sharjo doing with his time in how much effort he spends piecing every scrap together?

If we are, then, the world of Runeterra opens itself up to the same criticism that every other setting and story has.

Stars Shaper7 votes

As always it has been a wonderful read.

I think your idea isn't all built in the air, it traces back to our own ancient Egyptian culture, which has a lot of mysteries bound to a knowledge and craftmanship that is hard to believe was acquired during those ancient times and "aliens" contacts always had a great presence in our imaginary.

I also would like to add to your theory that the power that Shurimans use for Ascending is indeed closer to Aurelion Sol magic than anything experienced since now in Runeterra (as we know for now), the exact words being: "In a vast stretch of desert, I feel the twinge of familiar magic emanating from the seat of the premiere civilization amongst these savages".

Given that we are just talking about a huge focusing lens it's still the only attempt at cosmic magic that Runeterrans have done.

Sharjo5 votes

Thanks for the kind words Shaper.

Even if my theories about the capital are folly, it does stand to reason that if Shurima wanted to harness the power of the sun, they'd look to knowledge of the cosmos in an effort to learn just how to do it, potentially leading them to Mount Targon and knowledge of Targon itself. It had to be such a vast undertaking and given how long it took for human cultures to grasp the principle of magical technology, there had to be something else there for Shurima to get the Sun Disc made. Hell, maybe a Shuriman sought out Mount Targon's peak for answers about the cosmos, was chosen to be an Aspect, and returned home with knowledge that was critical to making the disc.

RiotBioluminescence8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0yMqvxPg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-02-16T23:22:01.720+0000)

As always it has been a wonderful read.

I think your idea isn't all built in the air, it traces back to our own ancient Egyptian culture, which has a lot of mysteries bound to a knowledge and craftmanship that is hard to believe was acquired during those ancient times and "aliens" contacts always had a great presence in our imaginary.

I also would like to add to your theory that the power that Shurimans use for Ascending is indeed closer to Aurelion Sol magic than anything experienced since now in Runeterra (as we know for now), the exact words being: "In a vast stretch of desert, I feel the twinge of familiar magic emanating from the seat of the premiere civilization amongst these savages".

Given that we are just talking about a huge focusing lens it's still the only attempt at cosmic magic that Runeterrans have done.

Excellent pulled quote, Stars Shaper. I was going to ask Sharjo what he thought of that one myself.

RiotRiotJaredan6 votes

Love it!

Mogarl2 votes

Surprised you didn't include the bloodline anywhere in this theory. Azir's lineage is innately magical, so much so that it can be tracked across long distances. It's very possible that the original emperor of Shurima was not human. Perhaps the designer of the city was a Targonian who went to Runeterra in person, built an empire, got busy with the local population, and then either died or went back to Targon. If not Targon then it could still be a similar origin to the Frozen Watchers (although we don't know where they came from either).

Epicurus2 votes

I like your theory, but alas, I must play the devil's advocate.

Why do you think Shurima's rivers flow inwards? Sivir's short story states the opposite:

Sivir turned to its source and watched as a three foot wall of blue water rushed down the ancient riverbed. The water from the city.

Also not sure what you mean by the city rearranging itself. There are other ways in which the Tomb of the Emperors could end up lost.

But these points aside, your theory has a lot of merit.

HalfTangible2 votes

Not sure I like connecting Targon and Shurima. Granted, this makes sense from a lore perspective, but from a storytelling one, I find it... disconcerting to try and tie the Targonians and Shurimans together like this.

The point of retconning the Institute of War out of existence (well, one of the points) was to provide some separation between the various areas of Runeterra and its champions. I don't remember where this was said or the exact wording, but someone at Riot pointed out that if all of the game's champions knew each other and had personal relationships with people across the planet, it would make the world feel incredibly small. Connecting Targon and Shurima in this manner has a very similar effect, albeit not to the same degree.

Although come to think of it, the Ascended of Shurima are mortals turned into god-like beings with magic... very similar to the Aspects of Targon, eh?

... in short, I don't like the idea but it is a cool one

Sharjo1 votes

The thing I'll always draw back to, as I stated in the post, is the simple idea of Targon being the vast, space trecking nation it was before even meeting Aurelion Sol, was probably pretty advanced back then, and for them to only leave behind evidence of their existence in the form of Mount Targon just seems unrealistic to me, especially considering Mount Targon and Shurima in particular are on the same continent. It'd be like if the Titans in WoW made one titan facility and left no other traces of their existence on Azeroth. Just seems odd to me.

HalfTangible1 votes

Part of the impression I get when reading about Targon is that they've entered the waning days of their Empire. It's only shown in Aurelion Sol's lore, but Targon's "voices" (their leaders, presumably) have started fighting each other, sending Aurelion Sol contradictory orders and generally tearing each other apart. This suggests that Targon is in a civil war and have lost control of most of their holdings. Mount Targon is their only remaining presence on Runeterra because it's just been that long.

It would also be odd for Aurelion Sol to note the construction of the Sun Disk but not note it as Targonian.

Sure it's a bit strange that Mount Targon is the main thing they left behind, but so what? It's already incredibly strange that the Targonians would lose most of their presence on a planet where they enslaved the star forger and where said forger can supposedly find a way to free himself.

Tract2 votes

I've mailed Azir since his release and have been a big fan of Shurima lore, I never really thought about it but the Ascebsion ritual does seem very similar to the process by which the Targon chosen get turned into super saiyans. Awesome theory.

LostFr0st1 votes

That ancient stone map seems to hint that they're connected too, at least by trade. http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/creative-spotlight/reksai-scourge-desert

Whyte Lyon2 votes

Speaking of that confusing map, to this day I dont know for sure what the information depicted in it is actually showing.

All I can make out or at least what I think it's showing, is that Shurima (the desert) is surrounded my vague mountain rangers ranges, with an extremely high one in the South and i assume rivers flowing from the center moving out towards the East & West. Oh and that you can barely make out what looks like the city of Shurima above the middle emblem.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/2e/Shurima_map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150227214027 https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kK1iiSxXDmE/WBSLcYEMceI/AAAAAAAAXC8/3NZ0B3trVo4jP4xJCoq5_4YUhwwPthJlACLcB/s1600/29.png

But no other visible cities, no distinction between different regions (like Icathia, Sai'Khaleek or Crystal Scar) and no higher quality image to see the small detail that is there.

RiotBioluminescence5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whyte Lyon,realm=OCE,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0yMqvxPg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-17T05:03:26.451+0000)

Speaking of that confusing map, to this day I dont know for sure what the information depicted in it is actually showing.

All I can make out or at least what I think it's showing, is that Shurima (the desert) is surrounded my vague mountain rangers, with an extremly high one in the South and i assume rivers flowing from the center moving out towards the East & West. Oh and that you can barely make out what looks like the city of Shurima above the middle emblem.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/2/2e/Shurima_map.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150227214027 https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kK1iiSxXDmE/WBSLcYEMceI/AAAAAAAAXC8/3NZ0B3trVo4jP4xJCoq5_4YUhwwPthJlACLcB/s1600/29.png

But no other visable cities, no distinction of different regions (like Icathia, Sai'Khaleek or Crystal Scar) and no higher quality image to see all the detail that is there.

Maybe one day I'll be able to go back, fix that map (because there are several things wrong with it) and release it high res with annotations. Sigh.

Short version, though - the mountain to the bottom should be on the left, the scratches on the bottom left (damnatio memoriae) should be on the bottom right, and the geometric-shaped chasm to the top right should be on the top left.

Sharjo2 votes

Oh ok, so Icathia's in the south east, Crystal Scar (if it's even still named that) in the north west, and Mount Targon to the west.

Cool. I dig it.

LostFr0st1 votes

Sharjo, do you think that scratched bit is really the 'Sai or is it Icathia?

I seem to have my headcannon in a bit of a jumble right now.^^" I would appreciate a critique of the map I added abovebelow (how'd it end up there...).

Sharjo1 votes

Scratched region's probably Icathia. Sai's in the north. Bloodline helped refresh my memory there.

LostFr0st2 votes

So the 'Sai is the mostly blank bit between there and the arched landmark then? (which I'm pretty sure is Vekaura) I'm pretty sure now that this map predates the Xer'sai settling there too by quite a bit now that I think about it after some sleep.

Duke Anax1 votes

I don't think it ever was veryfied that it even points north, could just as well be pointing to the Rising sun, which would make Mount targon be north, center of valoran.

Also wasn't Urtistan the one erased from memory? While Icathia being so old that it was not on the map to beginn with?

LostFr0st2 votes

Hmm... that wasn't at all what I was thinking in my head when you said the 'orientation' was wrong some time ago^^"

For some reason my headcannon was like "oh, that's so smart, that must mean the center is the capital of Shurima, the top is where the sun rises (east), which if we turn it clockwise means to the west (current bottom now left) is Targon, with the scratched bit probably Icathia. The archway I assumed was the one from Vekaura (was to the right;top once turned)

apparently not...?

With the new context the map in my head looks kinda like this: excuse my MS Paint skills, or lack thereof :P https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/612ac6e9b4987ab854d5e5f66a394b188077237088cf4c5bb32eeeb9ee5c0a5d.jpg

RiotBioluminescence4 votes

Pretty close, but that 'archway' on the map isn't supposed to be an archway, but a representation of the setting sun (which would have been twinned with a similarly stylized rising sun on the opposite side). Alas, that means it was just wrong.

######I really do apologize about how wrong this now is. I mean, all the content is there, but this was one of the first post-super-continent developed maps to address Shurima (a pretty gigantic landmass) and the locations of two of the other less well known areas, and reasonably soon after we took a look at the arrangement of all the land masses and went a bit continental drift on their asses. tl;dr - we changed the world map since this was made. Pretty confident on its arrangement now though. Seems very stable.

I had considered using the Rune Wars as an 'excuse', but the changes are just too drastic for my liking. That's not to say that rearranging it couldn't be done by a crazy person with a rune or two, but I won't use that as a crutch.

Also I think your MS Paint skills are lovely, and we should put this on the fridge. ;)

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

Full geographic documentation when ;c

LostFr0st1 votes

{quoted}

Pretty close, but that 'archway' on the map isn't supposed to be an archway, but a representation of the setting sun (which would have been twinned with a similarly stylized rising sun on the opposite side).

I read up to here, and thought you were saying Vekaura's arch was to stage the sun during the solstice similar to our sun-worshiping ancient cultures.

Alas, that means it was just wrong.

Then I frowned a tiny bit. Please don't keep apologizing Bio :( Regardless of if we get another map, I will still treasure the one on the Shuriman artifact most dearly, since it came at the beginning of the return of the lore. I'm glad it's not perfect; it shows how much thought was put into giving us something beautiful after so long.

Pretty confident on its arrangement now though. Seems very stable.

Good stuff, that indirectly means a high chance of future culture maps^^ They're fun.

I had considered using the Rune Wars as an 'excuse', but the changes are just too drastic for my liking. That's not to say that rearranging it couldn't be done by a crazy person with a rune or two, but I won't use that as a crutch.

Also I think your MS Paint skills are lovely, and we should put this on the fridge. ;)

lol

LostFr0st1 votes

For some reason after Bioluminescence's hint some time ago I just turned the thing 90degrees clockwise, which landed Targon to the West (giant mountain), Vekaura to the North (mountain with giant archway from Nasus' story), and the symbol at the top I assumed to be the rising sun to the East. The scratchmarks I attributed to Icathia, since it's so near to Targon and wasn't sure what other reason thy'd have to scratch it off (though now reading Sharjo's comment it may indeed be the 'Sai. With "damnatio memoriae" referring to Rek'Sai herself (though I'm not sure if they would be able to forget her since that would be dangerous; I'd put it in Bold if I was them, not scratch it off lol).

XIII Vanitas1 votes
  1. There's nothing that leads us to think that the God-Willow was a font of natural energy. It's way more likely it was just a nature spirit, similar to Maokai before the Ruination.

  2. I'm pretty sure Sivir wasn't a corpse when Azir found her: she had received a mortal wound and she was bleeding to death, but she was still alive.

  3. Who says that the revived Azir was made of sand and wasn't truly a living being? In the cinematic "Rise of the Ascended", Nasus, the narrator, explicitly says that the blood magic "snatched Azir's mind and body from oblivion" and, when the emperor is shown in his human form, he looks like a normal human being. I think this heavily implies that Azir was made of blood and flesh before achieving his ascended form.

Anyways, I think that your theory on the connection between Targon and Shurima is too far-fetched. Even though both societies share the concept of "ascension", there's really nothing that links them together, especially if you consider the fact that they draw power from very different sources (Shurima from the sun and the life-giving waters, Targon from interplanetary symbionts/parasites).

Sharjo2 votes
  1. While you're correct in that the God-Willow hasn't been stated to be a font of natural energy, the power and knowledge granted to Ivern by it implies it to have been a source of incredibly potent power, and given Ivern's own abilities to allow plants to grow and mature at a rapid rate, it's connection to natural, life giving energies is evident. Ivern does to a degree what Maokai once did, and in a very similar way, indicating a connection between the God-Willow and those bodies of water found on the Blessed Isles, which is in itself similar to the Oasis of the Dawn. The God-Willow was likely an integral part of Runeterra's ecosystem on a global scale, especially considering FauxShizzle, Ivern's writer, already indicated that its death was not a good thing for Runeterra.

  2. Sivir was described as a corpse in Azir's bio:

Gradually resuming his corporeal form, Azir stumbled through the ruins and came across the** corpse** of a woman with a treacherous knife wound in her back. He did not know her, but saw in her features the distant echo of his bloodline.

Sivir's bio doesn't explicitly state death, but heavily implies it:

Taking advantage of Sivir’s distraction, Cassiopeia stepped in close and rammed a blade through her back. Sivir collapsed in agony, her lifeblood soaking into the sand. Cassiopeia pried Sivir’s crossblade from her grasp as her senses dimmed like a guttering candle. As warmth faded from her body, death closed in.

Sivir also considered herself dead at the time, something she stated at least twice in the short story Water:

I was dead. I must make that mean something.

That Noxian bitch sunk a blade in my back. I died. That should mean something.

  1. Once again, Azir's bio indicates his ressurection was tenuous and he was made of sand:

Azir was reborn, but was yet incomplete; his body little more than animate dust given form, held together by the last vestiges of his indomitable will.

This is also reflected in his death animation in game too, where as Nasus and Renekton both die and leave behind corpses, Azir dissipates in to sand upon death.

AlistarMilking1 votes

Good theory, I liked it! Just one piece of advise: don't be so apologetic about it. If you feel like you really must, add a disclaimer that it's just a theory at the beginning of the post and then stop worrying about it. It gets really tiring to see you apologize constantly for making a connection.

As far as theories go, it's not even so outlandish that it warrants such a level of self-depreciation, both places do have a lot in common: both worship celestial objects, both use circular motifs and golden ornaments a lot, and Ancient Egypt already has a lot of ancient astronaut theories around itself that it wouldn't be surprising for its League equivalent to have actually been built by aliens.

Sharjo3 votes

Honestly I prefer being apologetic to ne sure I don't come across as being standoff-ish and an arse. I'd rather be down on my own theory to invite in other discourse than potentially shut it down by putting the wrong step forward, if that makes sense.

AlistarMilking1 votes

I understand that, but there's also such a thing as going too far. Like I said, one disclaimer at the top of the post should be enough. If you're constantly apologizing about making a theory it comes across as if you didn't believe it was worth thinking about in the first place, in which case why am I bothering if the person that is writing this stuff in the first place believes it's BS?

Sharjo1 votes

This all just stems from me having a distinct lack of self confidence. I wanna talk about stuff, but I'm careful to assume because I've been very, very wrong in the past.

SteelMankind1 votes

What the sod is this

AgeOfTheMage1 votes

As much as I want to read that, I do not have the patience (sorry) but Judging by all the examples I got from glimpses, I'd say you're pretty smart and got your fats down, upvote for you!

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