Sexist art in League?

im top banana·Mar 13, 2018·4 votes·4,154 views

I want to hear the LOL communities thoughts on the hyper sexualization of female league champs. I know I know, the men get sexualized too... sort of. Braum, Vars, and Taric (and more) are all shirtless ripped guys but it just doesn't stack up to the amount of skin that the female champs show and the unrealistic bodies that they have and I think that it's quite sexist. I believe that this is an issue that furthers the sexualized perception of women's bodies.

In my opinion, the hyper sexualization of most female champs is just a weird decision made by Riot. League is hugely popular and Riot puts so much work into making an amazing game, why do they have to make like 90% of the female champs half naked with unrealistic body shapes that portray them as sex objects? League and eSports are getting more popular every year, Riot should take this into consideration when making art that reflects on them

p.s. Of course there are exceptions to the female art in League but the vast majority of females are portrayed as being highly sexualized.

67 Comments

BalderdashMar 14, 201813 votes

Bait thread about sexism?

http://i.imgur.com/phrl12s.gif[IMG]

GreenLoreMar 14, 20186 votes

I think you are throwing the term "hypersexualization" around a bit too easily. While most female champs are sexy,it is rather rare for them to be hypersexualized(I'd say Eve,Elise,Ahri and MF are the only ones). Sure many others also tend to wear clothing that feels unnecessary sexy(Ashe,Kai'sa,etc.),but its not so over the top that it would count as hypersexualized.

That being said,I do hope to see more variety among the female champs in the future,Kai'sa feels like a missed opportunity to me.

im top bananaMar 14, 20185 votes

Thanks for a thoughtful reply.

It's true that what makes something sexualized vs hypersexualized is subjective. I think however you define it, the fact is that most females in league are sexualized and my question is why. It seems like an unnecessary component that has negative side effects.

redniwediSMar 14, 20184 votes

That's not really a League question then. Sexualization of characters, both male and female, is the norm in modern fiction regardless of medium. It's more of a cultural thing, with different cultures sexualizing their characters to different degrees. It's actually an interesting thing to look at the differences between fiction made in different parts of the world.

GreenLoreMar 14, 20182 votes

Honestly for the most part it is because sex sells. This is especially evident with a lot of the older champs,who were put it into revealing clothes for pretty much no reason at all( Ashe Caitlyn etc.)

But nowadays this is pretty rare,they usually only put a female champ into revealing clothes if it fits the character,the only exception in the last years was probably Kaisa

UomoAfideMar 14, 20186 votes

There are usually two types of comments that tend to overflow this kind of posts: The "Uga Buga, me need tiddies. Damn SJW ruining tiddies!" and the "Everything is sexist reeeeeeeee" and they usually put me off from commenting. But just for once i'll try to give my personal view on the argument. I don't feel like the general "sexyness" of the champions is really hurting anybody at this point; in this day and age there are other medias that are much bigger offenders in this regard, but this is just my opinion not a fact, you don't have to side with me on this one. That aside, i gotta say i kinda agree with this post; Why? It's lazy by Riot standards. Yup, just that. It's lazy and boring. Don't get me wrong, i don't dislike a fair share of sexyness in games, but i don't absolutely need it either. I'm not gonna say that what we're getting is objectively bad, but i cannot in all honesty say that it's objectively good either. Any low effort Chinese-Korean MMO can put a pair of boobies and successfully attract a few more players just for that. Is it a bad thing? Perhaps, but LoL has taught us to expect better and while i'm not against more fan-service(y) skins, i feel like this year we were kind of let down by some of the recent additions to the champion and skin roster, while ignoring the fact that we are already swim in (sometimes overly) sexualized content. OP is not wrong in this aspect, i'll give it that. The question that we should be asking ourselves is; "Do we really need more content like this?". Don't we have enough already? Don't we deserve a bit more creativity in this regard? And while i think Riot hasn't really abandoned or put aside the creativity alltogether (cough Zoe cough) i think we also didn't really need this much sexualisation as well. Whatever... just my 2 cents on this matter... and i'm only scratching the surface of a much bigger discussion though.

im top bananaMar 17, 20183 votes

I love this comment. I'm not on these boards trying to force people to agree with me, there's no point in that and almost always causes more controversy than constructive conversation. I respect your opinion and thank you for sharing it as that; opinion.

JamareeMar 14, 20185 votes

Oh look, this tired argument again then openly act like every single male isn't a near Adonis of show off and sexual gratification.

im top bananaMar 17, 20182 votes

Well, there is a difference between having a "perfect" body and then flaunting it sexually. Darius and Garen are both ripped but they don't have their junk hanging out like most of the women in this game.

JamareeMar 17, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=im top banana,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0qciLkuu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-17T01:57:20.792+0000)

Well, there is a difference between having a "perfect" body and then flaunting it sexually. Darius and Garen are both ripped but they don't have their junk hanging out like most of the women in this game.

Yup, no female pandering at all,

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/d/d9/Graves_PoolPartySkin.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/320?cb=20170615201905

absolutely none what so ever

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/8/89/Trundle_TraditionalSkin.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/320?cb=20170620212313

yup

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/9/99/Swain_BilgewaterSkin.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/320?cb=20180123204839

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20181 votes

I am offended as a Taric main he was not included. I mean he’s designed after Fabio, a romance novel character for females. His skins are Vampire for Twilight fans Lifeguard for general reasons The one for guys that play for that team, and a tree huger for hippies

That and heist lines are pretty much consistently as sexualizing for men as possible. “Welcome to the gem show” and “you know what they say about big gems, right?” I’m not even making that up, those are his actual lines

JamareeMar 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I am offended as a Taric main he was not included. I mean he’s designed after Fabio, a romance novel character for females. His skins are Vampire for Twilight fans Lifeguard for general reasons The one for guys that play for that team, and a tree huger for hippies

That and heist lines are pretty much consistently as sexualizing for men as possible. “Welcome to the gem show” and “you know what they say about big gems, right?” I’m not even making that up, those are his actual lines

Just another an example really and I know that is one of his lines, I have always just hated how bullshit this argument is and how the other side never gets looked at. If you want to whine about sexualization, fine, but don't act like the male end of this shit isn't just as bad. I want people who use this argument to stop acting like there isn't a male push for adonis like figure to please the female side just as much, to stop acting like it is somehow unfair to objective females but totally ok for males because you can't objective a male. It is infuriating.

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Ya I agree. Most media portrays men as dumb, over the top sex obsessed, and looking like the Rock. I was more just being a dork with Taric since I main him and he is probably the worst offender of the lot.

I guess as a guy I don’t care as much about it as I do with women. Growing up with a ton of sisters I saw a lot of crap get thrown at them by other women and guys being pigs near them, so I get a bit more up-in-arms when it comes to how women are treated and portrayed.

o brigid oMar 17, 20181 votes

The only one of these splashes that even remotely panders to women is the last one with the pretty hair and dark features. The other two are much more wish fulfillment for men. None of these poses contorts the male body in such a way to exaggerate his chest or ass. They are all power poses designed to make them look powerful or macho, not as sexual objects.

JamareeMar 17, 20183 votes

{quoted}

The only one of these splashes that even remotely panders to women is the last one with the pretty hair and dark features. The other two are much more wish fulfillment for men.

I'm sorry, how is a nearly perfect figure down to just a loincloth anything but pandering?

None of these poses contorts the male body in such a way to exaggerate his chest or ass.

Uhhhhhh.

They are all power poses designed to make them look powerful or macho, not as sexual objects.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

ElipoMar 14, 20185 votes

The only one with unrealistic body is Camille. I'm a woman and seriously, these women are just fit wich is more realistic than having fat characters fighting. The only character that doesn't look fit is urgot wich made him a meme. Now I'm not talking about fanarts here. Those can get ridiculous but are fanarts so riot has nothing to do with it.

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOMar 14, 20184 votes

Yes, Riot can definitely do better when it comes to the sexualisation of female characters. Many people just equivocate any criticisms of the sexy-ness with harpy screeching, and no discussion happens.

im top bananaMar 17, 20182 votes

I agree! I'm not out here yelling insults at people or acting really "triggered". I just wanted to get a feel for the opinion of the community.

MeowginMar 15, 20184 votes

I disagree with you. Most of champions (both male and female) are just sexy. Not overly and not sexist, but just sexy. To the degree of rock stars, movie characters, book illustration characters, fashion models, pop idols, mythical creatures etc. Because it's make them look cool, exciting and attractive. They are fiction characters, fantasy, not real people. For many people the game is the way to temporary escape from boring, monotonous reality. Thus, barely anyone want to play with plain and mediocre looking characters. Even among people, who play life simulators like The Sims 4, many use mods to make characters look "better than in real life".

Also, it's seriously weird to see someone talking about "negative effects of sexualization in the game", totally ignoring the fact that in this game players constantly kill enemies and jungle creatures for gold and fun. Sexy characters are bad, but slaughterer are good? Really? Or you just see sexism everywhere?

This game rather designed for audience that not supposed to be affected by such content. If this your way to be worried about some neglected 7 years old and underdeveloped adults, who play online games too, well, you wasting your time - they already wrecked and not by this game, you wouldn't change a thing for them by asking to make all games in the world asexual and family friendly. To change shitty tendencies in a society, you need to work with real people and real society, not sitting on a couch and blaming some virtual world.

im top bananaMar 17, 20182 votes

Thanks for the reply Meowgin.

You bring up some good points and I like to hear all the sides of this conversation because I'm here to start discussion and think about these topics.

I think it's important that you know I love this game! I think its fair to assume anyone who takes time to post on the forum has a deep appreciation for the game. I'm not saying that the game is inherently bad and that all games need to be family friendly. The game is about working as a team, killing your enemy, and wrecking a base. I'm not criticizing that aspect of League because thats what the game is! My critique is that with all of the aspects of this game being about battle, why do the women need to be dressed so scandalously. Like I said, you had some great responses to that question and I thank you for offering those responses.

Finally, don't assume I just sit on the couch and complain online. This is something that defines me as a person and that I live out day to day. I felt that I could bring that discussion to the forums. League is a huge part of my life, as is this conversation, i felt that this was a pretty appropriate way to have this conversation.

Jeddy017Mar 14, 20183 votes

Should Riot tone down how sexually they portray female champions?

It depends on the champ. If they're someone like Caitlyn , a champ who is suppose to be a respectable Officer in a high class society, then yeah. Her current design should have it's sexiness toned down a bit for something a little more modest. Or someone like Leona , who's armor is quite eyebrow raising to say the least. If they're someone like Ahri , a champ who sexiness is part of her character, then no. Unless you're asking them to rewrite Ahri into some nun or some shit, in which case HA! That shit ain't happening in this universe or the next one. Or someone like Evelynn who's basically the embodiment of sex.

Now will they? Honestly, I doubt it will happen anytime soon. And if it does, I doubt it will be to the degree that some people on Tumblr would want.

InfernapeMar 14, 20182 votes

Then again, League is a video game. Why should any of this matter? Sexualisation happens on both sides, so it's not like it's a female only thing. Not to mention Illaoi is a thing.

im top bananaMar 14, 20184 votes

Well, to answer your question about why does this matter, its a video game yes, but one game reaches millions of players in an industry that has been growing rapidly. I feel that the content they put out has an impact on us and we should consider what that content says.

As far as sexualization happening on both sides, I think there are examples of it happening to men too, however, not nearly as often or as extreme as it happens to women in my opinion.

About Illoi, you're right! Like I said there are always exceptions, but i think the overwhelming majority of female champs are a little over the top.

JamareeMar 14, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=im top banana,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=0qciLkuu,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-03-14T00:30:32.300+0000)

Well, to answer your question about why does this matter, its a video game yes, but one game reaches millions of players in an industry that has been growing rapidly. I feel that the content they put out has an impact on us and we should consider what that content says.

As far as sexualization happening on both sides, I think there are examples of it happening to men too, however, not nearly as often or as extreme as it happens to women in my opinion.

Out of all the male characters that are humans or humanoid, literally only three doesn't have an Atlas like figure, being Gragas, Singed, and Zilean, every single other one and some of the non humans like Aatrox and Mundo have bodies that most people would kill for. But no no, act like this doesn't go both ways.

o brigid oMar 14, 20183 votes

The Atlas-like physique isn't portrayed in such a manner as to flaunt male bodies as objects for the female gaze. It's more like wish fulfillment for the male gaze. They aren't there to be sexualized by females, they're there because males want to look like that. There is a major difference.

If you're genuinely interested in learning about it, here is a great article about gaze theory.

If you're not interested in the article, here's a nice image to sort of give you an idea:

https://images.theconversation.com/files/107143/original/image-20160104-27611-1h8q1f2.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20183 votes

{quoted}

The Atlas-like physique isn't portrayed in such a manner as to flaunt male bodies as objects for the female gaze. It's more like wish fulfillment for the male gaze. They aren't there to be sexualized by females, they're there because males want to look like that. There is a major difference.

If you're genuinely interested in learning about it, here is a great article about gaze theory.

If you're not interested in the article, here's a nice image to sort of give you an idea:

https://images.theconversation.com/files/107143/original/image-20160104-27611-1h8q1f2.jpg?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=754&fit=clip

While I actually agree with the idea of the argument, there is another side to it. A lot of people argue that the sexualized appearance of females creates unreal expectations for girls in how they view themselves as well as those looking at them. The same could be said about guys. Now I’m not passionate about this, but I do acknowledge this as a potential counter point to your arguments. Just putting it out there as good for thought than something I agree with when applied to guys.

o brigid oMar 17, 20181 votes

Thanks for this comment. It raises a valid point! But, I'd like to clarify the major difference. (And apologize because I wasn't expecting this to be as long as it is. But it is important to share with those who will listen)

The physical appearance of the majority of men in League absolutely creates unrealistic expectations for men... which is not good. However, the expectation isn't set as, "this is how you need to look to be sexually attractive to women." Instead it is presented as, "this is what you need to be manly." "this is how other men will respect you." Because it's what men aspire to for themselves. Men want to feel especially macho. It's not what women expect or necessarily even want... not that it matters much to the male gaze either way.

The expectation set for women is different because it's determined via the male gaze. The perspective is from someone who is sexualizing the female body for their own enjoyment. It's not set by women because it's what women aspire to or what makes them powerful or respected by other women. It's what women are told they should look like to please men.

Obviously neither of these situations are ones we should allow and as a culture we are taking baby steps away from these toxic expectations. But we have to understand that they are different and why they are different.

While both male and female features are exaggerated in League, an alarming percentage of female bodies and their poses are made in such an unrealistic way so that men can see their asses, their tits, their physically impossible hourglass figures... because these things sexually excite men.

Women's waists are often thinner than their thighs in splash art... something especially critical because women have historically struggled with this body "ideal" and have injured themselves with corsets and starvation trying to accomplish it. Women are also often in "action poses" that aren't physically possible to do, where they are bent or twisted and contorted specifically to accentuate their tits and ass, and that leave them looking supple and vulnerable for men. Many of these poses would leave the women in them in very dangerous situations on the battlefield even if they were physically possible. The sexualization of females is never done to empower females. https://i2.wp.com/ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/img/champion/splash/Nidalee_6.jpg https://gentlemangustaf.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/fiora.png https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Scaled-Down-Zyra-Splash.jpg https://gentlemangustaf.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/feed-warwick.png ######(even strong, formidable characters are posed sticking their asses out and their tits forward even though it makes no sense for them to stand in such a fashion if it were even possible)

Male figures might be extra chiseled and have larger muscles but they are always in power poses. I can't think of a single male splash art (not that there aren't a couple, I'm sure) that contorts a man's body specifically to show off his chest or ass in a way that is impossible for the body to actually do, or that would leave him vulnerable or even that uncomfortable. They are bigger, stronger, deadlier looking. Even the most sexualized male character in the game, Taric, gets power poses. The wishful idealization of male characters is done to empower males. https://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/league-of-legends-taric.jpg http://lolwp.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Heartseeker-Varus.jpg

The closes thing I can think of as a "we did this specifically to please women" is the heartseaker set of skins for Varus and Lucian. Even with those, Varus looks suave and bares skin, but not in the same manner that most women do -- if you look closely you can juuuuust make out the shape of an ass cheek), and he still gets a strong power pose.

It is especially important to recognize that this problem exists in something as seemingly trivial as a video game like League of Legends because, even though they aren't as vocal a part of the gaming community women make up half of the gaming world. I, myself, am a 29 year old woman and most of the people I play games with are women.

It makes one wonder why, when women are such a large portion of the community, they continue to be marginalize by the leaders of the industry.

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I actually very much enjoyed reading it, thank you for writing all that up. For how it was written it was a bit funny that you didn’t just write breasts and Butt, rather than the slang names. Your message still got across, the contrast just made me laugh for some reason

ZkaiserMar 22, 20181 votes

Men and women have different bodies.
All the women you put red circles on are just in shape. Those bodies aren't unrealistic, it's just ideal.

Champions are basically superheroes and superheroes reflect the ideals of the culture they're produced in. The ideal male body is tall, (not many short men in League), and fit (Gragas? Who else breaks this? Use to be Urgot but they jacked him up). The ideal female body seems to be slim and petite (I'm arguing against my own tastes here because I'd like way more Illaoi's to be in this game). Even when women design and create characters, they don't make them out of shape or flabby to create realism. They usually just put more practical clothes on them. Also, when a character is made outside of the norm , there usually is some narrative or design reason behind it.

o brigid oMar 23, 20181 votes

https://i.imgur.com/VLxchwL.png https://i.imgur.com/CnvYojd.png https://i.imgur.com/MD552dO.png https://i.imgur.com/zxfqabT.png These bodies are unrealistic. It is physically impossible for a person's waist to have a smaller diameter than just one of their thighs without extreme deformity from corset training or malnutrition. Because these bodies are so unattainable without seriously deforming ourselves, it's incredibly harmful to portray these bodies as natural let alone desirable.

Even some of the most beautiful sex icons in the world with hourglass figures don't come close to waists as small as a leg (even when photoshopped to have slimmer, fitter figures than they actually do). http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/12/18/article-2526105-1A2FFC4300000578-136_634x930.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/01/28/article-2547220-1A3011B800000578-513_308x658.jpg https://www.skinnyvscurvy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/scarlett-johanssons-body-is-so-cover-worthy.jpg

These women spend a large part of their life and career dedicated to keeping the figures they have. They are considered by many to be the absolute ideal female figures. Even their photoshopped bodies are more realistic than those of many females in League.

There is a woman who has such a tiny waist you'd actually be able to compare it to the impossible waist size of many league ladies. She is 81 and has been wearing a corset 24/7 since she was 47. She only takes it off to shower and has admitted that she isn't able to do a lot of normal activities and can't drive because her body isn't up for it. She now has to keep the corset on because she needs the support after being out of it for more than a couple hours.

This is what she has to do to her body to achieve such a waistline. https://cdn.acidcow.com/content/img/new01/406/03.jpg https://78.media.tumblr.com/ea098abcf42ee70eae9538c87cbb5cd0/tumblr_mrhee2KAfw1rbrhnko1_500.gif

No one is suggesting to make women characters out of shape or force them to wear burkas. The entire point of League is that these people are the strongest, most epic, super-hero status warriors of their time. Of course these people are going to be fit. But it is damaging to make their proportions so impossible and it isn't unreasonable to want warriors to actually dress and pose like the powerful people they are instead of like pinups.

ZkaiserMar 24, 20182 votes

You don't seem know what foreshortening is. An objects width and size are distorted depending on the angle of the viewer. I only bring this up because this is at play in the Sivir and Fiora Shots.
You posted 2 pictures from women in their lives after childbirth. One of which has had extensive work done to enhance their figure to NOT be skinny. And the last woman actually had a breast REDUCTION. So your narrative about unobtainable bodies is shaky at best here. I agree that League overdoes it sometimes but you're missing my main point which is:

In the public eye, the physical ideals of men and women have specific archetypes and in fiction those archetypes are exaggerated because the characters are larger than life. So with women you're going to get smaller waists, bigger breasts/hips, etc. and with men you'll get bigger biceps, shoulders, height, chiseled jaws, etc.

Let's not even go over the statistic that most people in the world aren't handsome or pretty but 99% of champions are. It's almost as if champions don't represent the average person, but the best. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

o brigid oMar 24, 20181 votes

Even at their thinnest, neither of these mothers ever had waists that were smaller than their leg. Surgeries had were never to enlarge the waistline, but parts above and below it.

I am very aware of foreshortening, but in none of the images I posted does it actually account for or make up for the drastic body dimensions.

You seem to be ignoring the point that to exaggerate to such a degree in fiction and perpetrate the message that such unattainable bodies are the ideal and that even fierce warriors are presented as sexual objects to be stared at, is harmful because of the effect continual societal pressures we put on people to look like something they will can have. This is not the message we should be sending to 13 year old kids. It's not the message we should be sending to adults.

A game and a company that seeks to empower women should do better.

Since you seem to intentionally be trying to detract from valid points in this thread, this will be my last response. [slayer-jinx-catface]

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Out of all the male characters that are humans or humanoid, literally only three doesn't have an Atlas like figure, being Gragas, Singed, and Zilean, every single other one and some of the non humans like Aatrox and Mundo have bodies that most people would kill for. But no no, act like this doesn't go both ways.

Twisted fate is fairly scawney, he just covers up. Ammumu is a guy I’m pretty sure. Mostly sure. Plus he cries so double points for not being a male stereotype. All the yordle guys are humanoid but none really looking like male models. Don’t think Shaco and Jhin are particularly ripped. Does Tahm Kench count as humanoid?

(I’m just being a dork. I know most of the men are hyper sexualized, but there are a large percent that aren’t. I just felt like being silly and wrote about it).

JamareeMar 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Twisted fate is fairly scawney, he just covers up. Ammumu is a guy I’m pretty sure. Mostly sure. Plus he cries so double points for not being a male stereotype. All the yordle guys are humanoid but none really looking like male models. Don’t think Shaco and Jhin are particularly ripped. Does Tahm Kench count as humanoid?

(I’m just being a dork. I know most of the men are hyper sexualized, but there are a large percent that aren’t. I just felt like being silly and wrote about it).

Scrawny yes, but if he has a well maintained figure, also, I did account for them in my original post when I said human/humanoid.

Tesla EffectMar 14, 20182 votes

Gragas is someones Sex Idol so is Rengar. To each their own I guess.

o brigid oMar 14, 20182 votes

I honestly agree with this so hard but, for the most part, have learned to keep my mouth shut about it. I've given up hope for this particular community (and males on the internet in general) when it comes to the objectification of women.

I'm also a little surprised that Riot continues to objectify women's bodies (as badass as they try to make their female characters), but again... I've learned to live with the disappointment.

im top bananaMar 17, 20183 votes

Hey, thanks for posting. It sucks to feel like your opinion is constantly being shut down. I am trying to make this thread friendly to all opinions so that we can have discussions rather than arguments. It's human nature that people disagree and see things differently but it's possible that we can learn from each other.

I think Riot does try to make their women look badass but they seem to accomplish that goal with the male characters without having to make them look like sex objects too.

MegaSpaceJXMar 14, 20182 votes

R u a male or a female?

HalcyonDwellerMar 14, 20183 votes

I don't think it really matters.

ToppienMar 14, 20182 votes

idk, i like sexy characters, sex is an important part of human socieity, you know how the internet become so widespread? porn, riot knows sexy characters sell, all asian mmo's also know sexy characters sell, and i believe its ok, cuz it also offers an ideal for women and man to become better and more beautifull, when people say "ficcional characters should be ugly" it triggers me, cuz most things about fantasy are about ideals, inspiration, is it wrong for people to aspire to be beautiful? i think not, what is wrong is to try to denigrate ideals to match reality, its retrograde.

realism has no place in fantasy or ficction, get that in your thicc skulls

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20181 votes

[deleted]

ToppienMar 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

So there is a large difference between beauty and sexualization. Sexualization is not wearing much clothing, while beauty is more about health, being fit, and maybe some makeup.

Also, look up how pornogrphy effects the brain. It builds pathway that effect real life in some pretty negative and potentially addictive ways. Sex may be an important part of human life (it’s how it starts and propagates) but a lot of what the culture pushes at people as “normal” is actually extremely unhealthy for the persons mental well being. Not just the mentally frail either, this can effect anyone. Don’t believe me, science has my back on this one, not just moral opinions like the rest of what I said.

Realism doesn’t have a place in fantasy your right, so why are you verbally attacking someone who is in real life over opinions on fictional characters? Or did you forget there is a living person on the other end of that comment?

so, are you telling me this isnt beauty?

https://files.brightside.me/files/news/part_40/408410/17507210-1-1506307769-650-0b725c06fc-1512374721.jpg https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/amazing-sculptures-4-57baeebfe5f1e__880.jpg http://www.sothebys.com/content/dam/stb/lots/L15/L15230/600L15230_83W82_1.jpg https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-4YfNdKKgwE/hqdefault.jpg https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/images/hb/hb_2010.260.jpg

this isnt art? just beacuse it shows some boobs or ass or torso, or even genitals its something moraly wrong? oh boy thats rich

sexualization is part of the human race and society, and not only a few civilisations have put boobs and rears in high regard, ALL of them have been doing it for millenia in case you havent gotten the memo.

pornography like any other thing (even healthy things like exersise or study) in excess is bad, but thats come from people dont have any sense of self control, and that is not the fault of people who expose porn, but from the individual morals people have,if you cant handle it, dont expose yourself to it, -thats your responsability and yours only-, for society in general its been a good thing, it has permited to people to, get this, procreate express love, express valor for the human body, dont believe me? history has my back on this, and you just need to go see a museum to see, also i want you to link me to articles where they proof your point about porn being bad for normal self-controlled people, cmon go ahead.

"sexualization" its just a pretty excuse for moraly fearfull (or ugly) people to censor art and expresion,mostly what triggrers them on a personal level, if someone like riot likes to expose sexy man and women, they are in their total right and no one on earth has the right to try to denigrate their work by calling it "sexualized" like its a bad thing, what is this the medieval times? cmon

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20181 votes

[deleted]

ToppienMar 17, 20182 votes

{quoted} As for it being considered art, I don’t agree with it, but concede most people do. However, to say that the sexualization is what makes it art is wrong. Any two bit computer drawer can draw a women with unrealistic proportions and skimpy clothings and produces a biological reaction in males. It’s not art, it’s a play off of natural response. Art makes the beholder experience emotions they don’t feel often. It drives them to think about what their seeing in different ways. Or it can inform on issues that the beholder was ignorant of. Sexualization alone does none of these thing. What part of naked breasts and genitals does any of those things? I’m a guy, I know what my body is sending to my head when I run into this stuff. It’s biological. But I choose to be different than the simple impulses my body sends, though that’s a different discussion entirely.

{quoted} I agree that they have been putting sexual content in paintings and other mediums Since civilization first cropped up. They also believed the world was flat, women were property, and no one would ever surpass them in power. Looks as though some things from history get outdated by modern understanding

{quoted} Sex is healthy and important. I agree. It’s important to be informed and educated on this significant part of people’s lives. But I seriously don’t have to argue the damage pornography can cause even to strong self control. This isn’t opinion, it’s science. Same reason people don’t argue about if the earth is flat or not, I’m just dropping this argument.

you keep saying Science but i dont see you showing your sources about it, and in case you dont get it, science its about proving your argument not just giving me that midnight comercial "its science, dont argue it" thing.

as for women being opressed through history do i remmind you of matraircal societies like in ancient egipt Hatshepsut, Neithhotep, Joan of arc in france?, the british royal family? chinesse empress who ruled over millions while their sons where just mere children and even after just puppets? mesopotamian priestess who where more respected than any man? mesoamerican women who where also honored and respected by man?, the amazonian also, without mentioning all the female deities that where feared and honored for giving prosperity, wisdom, war and fertility? its so convenient to just be one sided when talking about history.

i also been talking about sexualization on men, people like to just see how they "objectify" woman but man also are showed as sexy by media all this time, theres also porn of men that woman (and also men) enjoy

and sorry for being confuse, yes most porn are just to get some steam off, but some porn its considered art for the ones involved in it if made in a more serious way, im also sorry you cant appreciate that theres some pornographic art out there who trully makes you feel things other that just a sexual impulse

as for you being a minority, good gods you are a minority, otherwise i would had lost faith in humanity long time ago, you are wrong, the minority you are agreeing with is wrong, and im also serious about my posture in the matter, and im not done, not by a long shot

ah but going back to league, woman and men are being represented as ficcional champions, of course they must look like models, otherwise they wouldnt be as facinating, theres no merit in a normal person champion, they must be extraordinary to appeal as heroes, like i said before, heroes are ideals, figures people can aspire to be, the overexageration of sexual qualities are also part of something called dramatization and representation, if you are taking it like something bad, well im sorry for you, but i sure as hell enjoy it.

[sg-ahri-2]

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

One chinees empress held significant power, vs the many emperors who practiced Harems before and after her. John of arc was burned alive for being a women and actually acomplishing things. British royalty like Henry the VII, who murdered a large number of his wives. There were many queens, but they as individuals had rights, and did not extend them to the rest of their gender till much latter in history.

I’ve deleted this section a couple times now. It’s not easy writing this next part, my pride still boiling and wanting me to say something stupid. Looking back, probably the last two posts I made with you were more about me wanting to be right than actually standing for what I believe in. I’m only leaving the historical one because John of Arc was murdered over sexism, she should never have her name used to say it didn’t exist in her time. Respect important history like that. Look I’ll leave you some links that actually changed my mind and looking at them reminded me about the core reason I think the way I do. I’ll share a personal experience about something I went through after that. But before anything else, I got to apologize for the way I treated you. You’ve got opinions that I’m sure have stories behind them, and I wasn’t treating them with the repect you and they deserve. It was childish of me, and I can’t say sorry enough times for not acting my age when it came to talking about things I don’t agree with. I’m gonna go delete my earlier posts to try and show a bit of what I mean when I say sorry. I hope that it can make amends for the verbal sludge I mixed in with my thoughts.

Links: Most liberal source I could find for you http://www.apa.org/monitor/2014/04/pornography.aspx

Real life example (if you were wondering what it looked like for a self disciplined man who still had issues) https://www.cnn.com/2016/02/24/entertainment/terry-crews-porn-addition-feat/index.html

Raw data https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Claudio_Violato/publication/252364943_A_Meta-Analysis_of_the_Published_Research_on_the_Effects_of_Pornography/links/0c960531cb31e0e710000000.pdf

CNN report (context: Porn addiction is about as common as illegal drug addiction. Read articles for symptoms) (wouldn’t recommend something that common be used “causally” to someone I care about) http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/09/05/sex.addiction/

Huffington post report (this is the contrasting hyper conservative view) https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5963460

There are religious studies that have stronger evidence, but to pretend that’s not from a biased source would be rediculus.

Some real life stuff: my opinion didn’t come out of nowhere. I used to tell myself porn was okay, that it didn’t effect me or those around me. I told myself that over and over again. But reality didn’t care. Got dumped twice, started having pretty serious depression and anxiety, which in turn started messing with school and work. I finally decided to go to a seminar about this stuff and there were like 30 guys there. Some shared some pretty heavy stuff that I don’t really get permission to talk about. That’s when I started having these opinions. 1/20 to 1/10 people report having a pornography addiction, who knows how many go unaddressed. Serious cases, worse than I ever had, have reported issues on the level of heroin addiction. This stuff hurts real people, and I can’t just blow that off after experiencing it a bit myself. Now that I’m stuffing my ego about needing to be right, I get it can be hard to care looking from the outside. Like 80% of America drinks without being alcoholics right? Why should the little guy ruin the fun for everyone else? I really can’t ask anyone to change as a result, because I was there and get unless something spirals out of control it just seems stupid. But I got to take care of guys I’ve seen hurt by this stuff, which honestly doesn’t belong in a post on a league forum, but should be done IRL. It’s one of the reasons I need to apologize, to you and anyone who read our back and forth. Some issues don’t need to be shoved in others faces like i did, and should be taken care of case by case in real life. So I’ll say it again. I am truely, deeply sorry for the way I addressed you and your genuine thoughts. I hope that this helps you understand I’m serious when I say it and It undoes some of the damage I’ve done. If I missed any post that was toxic specifically at you, let me know, I’ll pull it down like the rest.

I liked having someone to contrast my opinion with. Thank you for that. And for giving me the time to calm down. I’ll have to try harder not to post like a Riven or Yasuo main hahaha. I’m gonna go back to playing league, and I wish you a GG.

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20182 votes

I apologize to the original poster of this thread for spam commenting to other people. I am impressed by your own comments and how they are thought out and well written rather than knee jerk reactions of anger or malice. I’ll probably stop responding to people now because most of one page of comments is me now.

o brigid oMar 17, 20181 votes

Don't stop. It's important and amazing to speak up about something like this... to acknowledge that you're aware of the issue and open to learning about it.

Being part of the discussion is a good thing!

It matters and your comments provide support to those of us who feel like we're drowning in a sea of people who don't care about or don't want to fix the problem, and you help keep this thread relevant on the boards for those who browse the "recent" tab instead of the "hot" tab.

I'm not OP but this is an important issue to me and the longer this thread stays relevant the more likely it is to be seen by a Rioter who might actually take it to heart. We have to make ripples before we can make waves.

ZaneShadowMar 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Don't stop. It's important and amazing to speak up about something like this... to acknowledge that you're aware of the issue and open to learning about it.

Being part of the discussion is a good thing!

It matters and your comments provide support to those of us who feel like we're drowning in a sea of people who don't care about or don't want to fix the problem, and you help keep this thread relevant on the boards for those who browse the "recent" tab instead of the "hot" tab.

I'm not OP but this is an important issue to me and the longer this thread stays relevant the more likely it is to be seen by a Rioter who might actually take it to heart. We have to make ripples before we can make waves.

Thank you. But even writing this I’m pretty sure makes this page 80%+ Just my comments.

I like the idea of the thread making a difference, but I think this isn’t an issue that can be solved by a minority of players. You can look at the threads votes to see that most people don’t agree with us. And I do have to say as a minority, it probably wouldn’t be right for us to get our way over the majority, regardless of feelings. I am happy that most champions have at least one skin that isn’t guilty of this problem that I can buy and equip so I don’t perpetuate an issue I disagree with.

I think riot already feels similarly thanks to posts like this, hence we don’t see as many Miss Fortune types releases much anymore. They might release skins still that have this problem, but that runs into my last point.

What I think posts like these are good for is helping people not feel alone with these opinions, as well as informing and sharing ideas with each other. I bet some people never realized ANYONE cares until they saw this. Might have only been one or two but that’s 1 or 2 changes I can be happy with. Ripples might not always make waves, but they can still affect the life of the tadpoles nearby. And that’s often enough.

Yara0Mar 22, 20182 votes

Lets make this simple. Im a girl. I like boobs. Riot can do whatever the fuck they want with their champions when i played smite Sol came out who is basically naked and i didnt care at all. Tbh i love when characters are "hot" at least in my eyes. Sexulization isnt a problem and never should be as far as i care. So long as they dont literally copy paste models like paragon did im fine. I think riot does an amazing job with champion design.

P.S females work at riot too.