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Clash of Diana and the Solari

rxmsxy··2 votes·1,737 views

Ever since DianaDiana came out, I've wondered where Riot was going to take her and her story.

She exists as the only (known) antithesis to the Solari people, the only moon worshipper. If the Solari were distressed enough by her alternative thinking to schedule an execution, why haven't they dispatched an assassin or a garrison of troops to kill her. If there's anything a religion refuses to tolerate, it's competition. So I feel they should be hunting her, trying to disable any attempt for a competing religion/way of life to take hold. Likewise, why hasn't Diana become a preacher of sorts? I know she's vengeful and wants to witness the fall of the Solari, so why hasn't she accumulated a massive following and marched them to the gates with rage in their hearts? She should link with EliseElise and her followers, and seek to usher in an era of eternal darkness, where the moon reigns supreme and Elise and her spiders rule the night and feast on the captive Solari.

This war would provide SEVERAL opportunities for new champs, new game modes, new skins, new map? (Mt. Targon anyone) Could you imagine Celestial Elise? drools or a Fallen Leona/Pantheon more drool

Expanding on Mt. Targon, we don't know ANYTHING about it, or about the hidden temple where Diana found her suit/crescent sword and the people who built it/worshipped in it. Were there once two separate people? the Solari and this unknown moon-based group? Were they always enemies or did their relationship sour?

Additionally, Diana could request the aid of Noxus and bring yet another territory into their grasp. This in turn would attract Demacia and provide more conflict for the warring nations. (ALSO MORE SKINS)

Just an idea, would LOVE to see it happen though. Diana is so obscure. Fix it Riot <3

20 Comments

Jimmyyy4 votes

Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Whoa Just because she worships the moon doesn't mean she wants eternal darkness...

rxmsxy1 votes

For some who holds disdain for the sun and everything it represents (the pride of the people who shunned her) why would she want to see it ever again. An ever-risen moon would be seen as more powerful than the sun, because the sun sets, in eternal darkness the moon would not.

rxmsxy2 votes

Some Diana quotes for you <3

"Bring down the sun." "The moon will rise. The night will last forever." "The sun does not reveal truth. Its light only burns and blinds."

NeoJusteBelmont3 votes

Certainly, the world will plunge into darkness if the sun were to disappear. However, the Moon also brings a bit of light during the darkness. Diana isn't opposed to light, she just thinks that Moon should be the only light source because she got betrayed by the Sun (or their followers). Her goal is to ensure the Moon is the sole source of light that is worshipped, and the Sun can just take a hike because based on personal experience, it's a sack of hypocrisies and lies.

Like for this instance, there is no way Diana would associate herself with Nocturne who wants just mere darkness, no moon to shine on.

Though there is a tragic thing on this. Diana is so consumed in her anger that she forgot an important detail: Where does the moon usually get the light to shine on the night? Sun. How Diana could think that Moon is a source of light by itself, I do not know. But this journey can only end with Diana going "Okay... now the Sun is gone, so Moon! Why aren't you shining!? Wait, is it because I just destroyed your source of warm light, the Sun!? NOOOOOOOO!!!!"

Also somehow, this kinda seeps into this particular stuff about her joke:

"A man, a woman, and a yordle walk into the sun... They die! Because it burns them alive? Heh heh heh..."

This joke can be seen in a way to demean the sun further, because she thinks that's all it's good for: Burning people alive.

Rainbowgasm3 votes

what if... there was a cult that worshiped the earth?

Melancholy Exile3 votes

She exists as the only (known) antithesis to the Solari people, the only moon worshipper. If the Solari were distressed enough by her alternative thinking to schedule an execution, why haven't they dispatched an assassin or a garrison of troops to kill her.

Probably because the Solari have no history of using assassins that we've seen, at least going back to the time of the original conflict, have no real reason to have any sort of standing army with the Rakkor as their acting protectors and lost a huge part of their leadership structure to Diana's ascension. Leona went from being something of a figurehead to the solar cult to being very close to the top in terms of influence and her conflict with Diana is a very personal one. She isn't detached enough to send someone else to do the job, and it's hardly as if the heretic has a known location they could send any force meant to deal with her anyway.

Likewise, why hasn't Diana become a preacher of sorts? I know she's vengeful and wants to witness the fall of the Solari, so why hasn't she accumulated a massive following and marched them to the gates with rage in their hearts?

Probably because, just like Leona, Diana considers this a very personal conflict and sees it as her own duty to 'enlighten' the Solari - or kill them. Rioters have said previously in AMAs that the Scorn of the Moon is so focussed on her agenda that she hasn't even given thought to how she would go about rebuilding her order and indeed doesn't even have a real plan for what she would do should she "Bring down the sun." She isn't a cult leader or some imposing orator, she's a person who saw a 'truth' very personal to the Solari and wants to break them just as they tried to break her. Diana's goal is to show the Solari how wrong they are and to remove their evil from the world, not to enlighten those beyond the conflict and use them to fight her battles.

She should link with EliseElise and her followers, and seek to usher in an era of eternal darkness, where the moon reigns supreme and Elise and her spiders rule the night and feast on the captive Solari.

What on earth would Diana want to do with Elise? How would she even meet her in the new canon?

Elise is pretty much everything Diana hates in a religious figure: Someone who abuses the trust and loyalty of others for personal gain, twisting a 'god' from something that exists only to feed on its followers to some kind of benevolent deity worthy of tribute.

Expanding on Mt. Targon, we don't know ANYTHING about it, or about the hidden temple where Diana found her suit/crescent sword and the people who built it/worshipped in it. Were there once two separate people? the Solari and this unknown moon-based group? Were they always enemies or did their relationship sour?

We don't really need a massive change in the nature of the conflict for this.

Additionally, Diana could request the aid of Noxus and bring yet another territory into their grasp. This in turn would attract Demacia and provide more conflict for the warring nations. (ALSO MORE SKINS)

Uh ... from a storyline perspective, why would you want to turn Diana and Leona's extremely personal conflict into yet another vehicle for Demacia and Noxus butting heads?

I'm totally in favour of more content pushing forward the conflict between the Solari and their fallen counterpart, but surely any future development should be centred on the two characters who embody those two factions rather than looking to dilute things further and further by bringing in characters who have no real connection to the original conflict beyond "Diana/Leona asked me to help out."

Diana x Me1 votes

Many things said are true but, as we know now retcons are coming in the masses so we will wait in see what is in store.

Although I will say that they never said she wasn't capable of becoming a leader they just said that she never put any thought into it.

rxmsxy1 votes

Probably because the Solari have no history of using assassins that we've seen, at least going back to the time of the original conflict, have no real reason to have any sort of standing army with the Rakkor as their acting protectors and lost a huge part of their leadership structure to Diana's ascension. Leona went from being something of a figurehead to the solar cult to being very close to the top in terms of influence and her conflict with Diana is a very personal one. She isn't detached enough to send someone else to do the job, and it's hardly as if the heretic has a known location they could send any force meant to deal with her anyway.

The Solari have barely any history so who is to say sending an assassin would be beyond them? Additionally, Diana is never mentioned in Leona's lore and vice versa, there's nothing to indicate this is a personal feud other than them both being the sole representations of their respective factions. And in what situation is an assassin's task ever cut-and-dry as in "I know exactly where my target is and I'm going to their doorstep and this is going to be a breeze, easiest job ever" never, an assassin's job is to hunt.

Probably because, just like Leona, Diana considers this a very personal conflict and sees it as her own duty to 'enlighten' the Solari - or kill them. Rioters have said previously in AMAs that the Scorn of the Moon is so focussed on her agenda that she hasn't even given thought to how she would go about rebuilding her order and indeed doesn't even have a real plan for what she would do should she "Bring down the sun." She isn't a cult leader or some imposing orator, she's a person who saw a 'truth' very personal to the Solari and wants to break them just as they tried to break her. Diana's goal is to show the Solari how wrong they are and to remove their evil from the world, not to enlighten those beyond the conflict and use them to fight her battles.

How does one rebuild an order alone? What is a religion without a following? The journey to reinstate this long-lost faith would be pointless without those to preach to. And those that discover truth NEVER keep it to themselves, so why would Diana choose to carry out this mission alone? Nowhere does it state that her goal to enlighten is solely meant for the Solari, she says all her "foes" (whom ever that may be) will either revere the moon or die by her blade. This leaves room for her, if she so chooses, to expand her potential influence beyond Mt. Targon and to the rest of the Rakkor, who by all accounts could have assisted the Solari in exterminating the unknown moon people. They clearly would have known there was conflict and the fact that the moon people are gone is proof they chose a side. So her anger could very well shift to them as well, for destroying a people who have taught her so much and given her so much, even in extinction.

What on earth would Diana want to do with Elise? How would she even meet her in the new canon?

Elise is pretty much everything Diana hates in a religious figure: Someone who abuses the trust and loyalty of others for personal gain, twisting a 'god' from something that exists only to feed on its followers to some kind of benevolent deity worthy of tribute.

If, like you said, Diana had no interest in taking the role of preacher, having Elise delegated to spread the word would not be far-fetched. Before allies are allies they are strangers no? They don't need a long history to become counterparts. The alliance would benefit both in the terms that Diana would have Elise's following to start with and Elise would have new territory and new victims that she wouldn't have to convert to devour. While this part is a bit of a stretch, its not implausible whatsoever.

We don't really need a massive change in the nature of the conflict for this.

Unsure what you're saying here

Melancholy Exile1 votes

The Solari have barely any history so who is to say sending an assassin would be beyond them? Additionally, Diana is never mentioned in Leona's lore and vice versa, there's nothing to indicate this is a personal feud other than them both being the sole representations of their respective factions. And in what situation is an assassin's task ever cut-and-dry as in "I know exactly where my target is and I'm going to their doorstep and this is going to be a breeze, easiest job ever" never, an assassin's job is to hunt.

We know the Solari, pre present-day and post-purge, as a religious organisation which exists in one of the most remote regions of all Valoran. Certainly they were aggressive and in no way beyond brutal violence during their conflict with the Lunari but what enemies might they have had after the defeat of their sole enemies in the world? Certainly speculating they have never made use of assassins in that period is a gross generalisation, I will admit that, but there simultaneously is no evidence of any sort of foe they might have needed to send them against.

Diana is never mentioned in Leona's lore for two very obvious reasons. Firstly because Leona's bio entirely pertains to her ascension and arrival at the Solari compound and secondly because Diana was just another face among the Solari until some time after Leona left for the League (And still in very early concept stages at that point). All talk of connections between the pair, which makes up a huge part of why most people are invested in the story, has come from discussions with Rioters at various times following Diana's announcement. The relationship between the pair before Leona left for the League, and indeed the nature of that relationship, is a massive point of discussion.

To give you the old IronStylus quotation: "We want them to be intertwined, and without delving too far into assumptions and implications, without getting too detailed about their past relationship, what is more tragic than to have to kill someone that you love?"

*As a Solari acolyte, Diana admired Leona a great deal from afar. Before becoming the Chosen of the Moon and learning everything about the corruption in the Solari, she saw Leona as the ultimate good, a valiant protector. A small amount of that trust and longing for acceptance would remain. *- Riot Runaan

How does one rebuild an order alone? What is a religion without a following? The journey to reinstate this long-lost faith would be pointless without those to preach to. And those that discover truth NEVER keep it to themselves, so why would Diana choose to carry out this mission alone? Nowhere does it state that her goal to enlighten is solely meant for the Solari, she says all her "foes" (whom ever that may be) will either revere the moon or die by her blade. This leaves room for her, if she so chooses, to expand her potential influence beyond Mt. Targon and to the rest of the Rakkor[.]

"Right now, being as used to solitude and isolation as she is, the idea of building a cult following doesn't quite occur to her--she's devoting herself to finding and executing the rest of the corrupt Solari (and, of course, Leona)." * - RiotRunaan * As for what Diana would do should she succeed at eradicating the Solari... I think there's an element of her tragic story here. She's given herself a very singular and fatalist purpose, and I don't believe she's ever allowed herself to stop and think about the end-game... and if she has, she doesn't have a very... positive view of her ongoing role in the world once her mission is complete. More food for thought. - RiotRunaan

Diana is an iconoclast not someone seeking to build a new institution. Her sole purpose in the present day is the destruction, and/or forced conversion, of all those who would stand against her and the truth she embodies, and she brings the truth to others at the tip of a blade rather than silver-tongued sermons meant to sway hearts and minds. Diana has "learned to be solitary", to quote Runaan, and thus she works alone with no eye to allies.

Melancholy Exile2 votes

If, like you said, Diana had no interest in taking the role of preacher, having Elise delegated to spread the word would not be far-fetched. Before allies are allies they are strangers no? They don't need a long history to become counterparts. The alliance would benefit both in the terms that Diana would have Elise's following to start with and Elise would have new territory and new victims that she wouldn't have to convert to devour. While this part is a bit of a stretch, its not implausible whatsoever.

I think it's a little implausible for Elise to see the worth in seeking out a semi-legendary figure somewhere in the wilds of Mount Targon purely for the purposes of expanding an operation she seems to be fully capable of managing alone, particularly when one considers that she desires victims she can expedite to the Shadow Isles. By aligning herself with Diana, Elise would be committing herself to a region which is just about as far away from the Isles as anywhere else in Runeterra and already has something of an established cult in the Solari.

Beyond that, as covered in the previous post, Diana is a solitary creature and has little reason to trust anyone else at all. She's known little else beyond lies and betrayal, perceived or real, throughout her whole existence and only now has the power to realise her goals alone. Why would she trust in someone else to preach her goals, particularly someone like Elise whose agenda revolves around spiriting their new converts away rather than solidifying a new power base?

Unsure what you're saying here

The conflict is currently Diana vs the Solari (Essentially Leona).

You're proposing Diana, Elise and Noxus versus Leona and the Solari, the Rakkor and Demacia. It's a completely different scale of conflict which would only serve to distract from the original elements and ideas by introducing a cornucopia of new characters and agendas to the mix. Where is the purity of the original conflict when it's now being fought for political reasons by individuals who have absolutely no interest in the solar and lunar cults?

rxmsxy1 votes

I will concede on the alliance (however if it isn't in the lore its far from concrete even if it's from rioters themselves, additionally lore can and have been changed and adapted to fit new storylines, keep that in mind)

Regarding her interaction with Leona, if she in fact held Leona in such high regard, to learn of the corruption of the Solari would only further her disdain for the collective rather than just Leona. She would see the entire Solari culture as a stain on her idol. So slaying/converting Leona would solve nothing, another Solari would just rise in her place, filled with the same corruption. Her only solution is to kill/convert everyone. And if Solari actually did convert, they would become the following I spoke about. Her task is to convert the Solari to the one "true" light, the moon. This is stated in the lore, in her quotes, etc. So if that is her intention, which it is based on the evidence, she does in fact seek to recreate the lost faith of the moon people, and she wishes it to be the only faith, this is known. So to attest that she is and will always be a lone wolf is contradictory to her existence as a champion in the LoL lore. She seeks to amass a following , maybe not for herself but for the moon. It's not personal in the sense that its Diana v. Leona, it could be personal in the sense that its Diana v. the Solari for corrupting Leona.

In reference to her converting Solari, if they agree to convert what then? Who are they to follow? Be preached by if not Diana? They would be jumping into a completely unknown religion, that only Diana can really describe. What would be the point of her conversions if not to teach these people the way of the moon? If her goal was never to lead a following, why convert? why not just murder all Solari and be done with it. That may be a lore/rioter contradiction but it exists nonetheless.

You're doing an awesome job though explaining, I want to hear what your take on that is? Why convert if not to lead?

Melancholy Exile1 votes

In reference to her converting Solari, if they agree to convert what then? Who are they to follow? Be preached by if not Diana? They would be jumping into a completely unknown religion, that only Diana can really describe. What would be the point of her conversions if not to teach these people the way of the moon? If her goal was never to lead a following, why convert? why not just murder all Solari and be done with it. That may be a lore/rioter contradiction but it exists nonetheless.

You're doing an awesome job though explaining, I want to hear what your take on that is? Why convert if not to lead?

Cheers. Sorry if any of this has come across as unnecessary aggressive or dismissive of your ideas at any point, but I do tend to get a bit absolute in my position in discussions like this. In hindsight I tend to look back and notice I've been far too harsh.

I feel that the only way in which Diana really works as Rioters seem to have put her across is if you go to the hilt with the idea that she's a person who has always sought recognition - acceptance - but never found it as she wished and thus never really developed any sort of plan for a world without that struggle and persecution. She spent her life amongst the Solari torn between the need to conform and the desire to open the eyes of others to the beauty and wonder of things beyond their narrow lives. Her elders always treated her with scorn and dismissed her ideas out of hand, even when she produced inarguable proofs, and thus she has grown to expect to be an outcast who is spat upon and rejected for being different.

Diana is The Scorn of the Moon and accordingly she looks on others with contempt. In her eyes the Solari as a whole are blind, ignorant and deserving of death if they will not renounce the only way of life they have ever known. The Solari themselves have little reason to sympathise with her. The circumstances of her disastrous meeting with the elders appear to be relatively unknown to the organisation as a whole and essentially served to cement their view of the moon as an evil force that corrupts and destroys. In this way, Diana has become their collective nemesis and joining with her must be tantamount to siding with the Devil from their perspective. She is offering her truth at the end of a blade to individuals who have been indoctrinated to see her as the antithesis of everything that is right and good in the world.

So naturally that leads to your question: What happens if someone actually offers Diana acceptance rather than rebuke?

Runaan said in Diana's AMA that:

"A lot of the amount of trust Diana would place in other Solari rests on Leona, in truth. Leona is the remaining figurehead of the Solari, and her trust or acceptance informs that of the rest of her followers. Leona's lack of acceptance pushes her further into the belief that there can be no reconciliation."

and:

"If Diana gains followers, she might have a difficult time acting as a real leader for them. It isn't in her nature."

And in this we basically see what I have to assume Riot are going for. Diana does not expect the Solari to turn from their beliefs because Leona, the one person who could possibly understand her, has shown no sign of turning. Though the lone Lunari may offer her truth, she does so 'knowing' that the Solari are so blind that they would sooner die than recognise her right to exist. Just like when she was just another face among the Solari, Diana is putting forward her views seeking acceptance but hasn't actually got an end-goal beyond receiving recognition because all she has never seen the light at the end of the tunnel.

Diana is The Scorn of the Moon and she looks down on others with contempt. She may, in her own way, look to open the eyes of others, but her ultimate purpose is to destroy those who would deny the moon's power and "she doesn't have a very... positive view of her ongoing role in the world once her mission is complete."

Her power was born of "anger and sorrow" and a time will come when the world no longer needs those ...

Melancholy Exile1 votes

Just to add to this:

Diana is not a leader or an orator or even a people person. She was the quiet girl raised in a cult who dared to wonder about things beyond the purview of their message and thus grew up ostracised and abused. Even as the chosen of the moon none of that has changed. She may understand more about the ways of the lunar cult of old than anyone else in all Runeterra, but Diana isn't much good with people and isn't used to having an audience that is in any way willing. She's ruled by her wrath and contempt for others rather than a willingness to open up and educate.

Diana might be the best equipped to lead the fledging Lunari in the present day but ultimately she is a lone wolf and would struggle to offer her followers any real sense of direction. Even with all she knows, she is trying to revive a culture that has been dead and buried for the best part of a century and she simply isn't the charismatic figurehead necessary to get the ball rolling and give people a real sense of purpose. The only purpose she knows is her own and beyond that ... even she isn't sure.

Diana x Me1 votes

Just to add to this:

Diana is not a leader or an orator or even a people person. She was the quiet girl raised in a cult who dared to wonder about things beyond the purview of their message and thus grew up ostracised and abused. Even as the chosen of the moon none of that has changed. She may understand more about the ways of the lunar cult of old than anyone else in all Runeterra, but Diana isn't much good with people and isn't used to having an audience that is in any way willing. She's ruled by her wrath and contempt for others rather than a willingness to open up and educate.

Diana might be the best equipped to lead the fledging Lunari in the present day but ultimately she is a lone wolf and would struggle to offer her followers any real sense of direction. Even with all she knows, she is trying to revive a culture that has been dead and buried for the best part of a century and she simply isn't the charismatic figurehead necessary to get the ball rolling and give people a real sense of purpose. The only purpose she knows is her own and beyond that ... even she isn't sure.

Again, many things said here are true although I feel that a lot remains beneath the surface. Runaan said she is alone for now. This makes me think they have someone planned to join her and most likely take on the role of cult leader and organizer. I'm curious to see how things will turn out.

rxmsxy1 votes

Uh ... from a storyline perspective, why would you want to turn Diana and Leona's extremely personal conflict into yet another vehicle for Demacia and Noxus butting heads?

I'm totally in favour of more content pushing forward the conflict between the Solari and their fallen counterpart, but surely any future development should be centred on the two characters who embody those two factions rather than looking to dilute things further and further by bringing in characters who have no real connection to the original conflict beyond "Diana/Leona asked me to help out."

Again, there's nothing to suggest the fight is personal. Leona had nothing to do with Diana's attempted execution, so Diana has no personal qualm with her other than the fact that she's a Solari. Also because she's most likely assumed a leadership role since the death of the hierarchy. They conflict could very well be made into a regional one. Noxus is constantly shrouded in darkness and Demacia would never want to see the sun destroyed or usurped, even though they are not directly involved they both have interests in how the conflict plays out.

cshakes2 votes

I'd like a more plotty and less overt conflicty plot. Say Nami contacts Diana over the Moonstone thing. That'd be a great opportunity to show more of the Lunari past, Solari present and Nami's culture.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I don't want to jump on the complaining bandwagon about lore, but so much yes on this. There are a lot of concepts that deserve to be expanded upon in this universe, and I am not happy that they just sit around until the next round of retcon. Great ideas, and ones that I hope Rioters will take seriously.

rxmsxy2 votes

Thanks! I'm working on a champ now that would coincide with the story line

Diana x Me1 votes

Sigh,......Why does this community do this to me. As much as I love her and this is with all my heart... I can only talk about it so much. You guys suck...OK.

I did bring up the possibility that it's possible their moon is actually magical and emits it's own source of light. So who's to say that getting rid of the sun would ruin everything.

In any case most of you know what I think.

Diana x Me1 votes

One thing I need to note on and its something I believe is key to her character is her desire for the truth. I see that this is rarely touched or looked upon.

To seek the truth is a valiant cause. We can do little with lies and false information except indoctrinate and corrupt. The truth sets us free and it bears many fruit.

I would say more but, I am currently short on time.

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