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Support only summorner spell providing increased gold income but denies csing completely

RS156··2 votes·1,054 views
Some thoughts on Support

Support is the least played role in all of solo queue and the main reason I think is the very low gold income. Payers feel like they cannot influence the game enough with this role. Even though team dependency is present in every role, supports tend to be the the most affected by this. Flat out increasing the gold income of current support items just make other laners take this item for increased gold generation. This introduces an unhealthy mechanic in game as it did before (Base karthus, preseason 6 frost queens claim). Making a summoner spell for supports only which does not allow them to cs makes this summoner spell optimal for support role only. The gold income must be balanced out so that it will definately be less than with laners above 10 cs/min but more than current support income. This balance cannot be estimated as it would require more testing and data. The current support starting items are heavily nerfed for their prices because of the gold income and its misuse by oiner laners. Making them support specific item like jungle items will also provide a way to increase their power. This items can provide different summoner spells giving supports variety of summoner spell option throughout the game. Also sightstone for 800g is worthless item imo. The wards can be tied up to these 3 starting items of supports. The items will provide different summoner spells based on 3 items bought whereas the ward effect will be the same.

Edit: Thank you for all your feedback and based on all your comments I need to clarify some points. Firstly, this SS will not completely remove a champion's ability to creep damage. It will just not give gold to the champion even when it last hits, similar to current ZZ rot minions. Secondly, based on all your feedbacks on its abuse on other champions than supports, the passive of this SS will only trigger when their is an ally neaarby, similar to ancient coin passive but it will increased gp5 rather than minion passive. Thirdly the 1st 3 starting items will be indirectly forced and without these items you will not get its passive altogether. This 3 items will not be giving any ad/as/crit making it completely trash for adc/ad assassin. One of the item's SS will resemble exhaust.

Any furhter comments will be appreciated.

20 Comments

Maximum Morde3 votes

Terrible idea.

BastionKross2 votes

What's to stop the top laner from taking this summoner spell, ignoring the minions (except for maybe lane push or freezing), and focusing almost exclusively on harassing and trading with his opponent every second he's in lane?

You cite non-support abuse when you argue against increasing gold from items, but yet there's nothing here restricting the potential new summoner spell itself from being abused.

RS1561 votes

That is definately a valid point. Something like ancient coin's passive should be kept in that case. Whenever you are near an ally you will get that bonus gold income or something similar. What is your suggestion in that case?

Sylas Dr3gb0urn32 votes

personally, i think this idea would be worth it, IF not only does it stop them from gaining gold from cs, but stops them from doing damage to the creeps as well. And does this stop them from attacking shaco boxesShaco , heimer turretsHeimerdinger , or zyra plantsZyra ? what about wardsitem 2055 ? does this stop them from attacking those? I am down for a summoner spell that increases gold for supports only, and stops them from pushing waves, csing, or getting gold from cs, but not at the expense of them not being able to help with ward reduction, or teemo mushroomsTeemo , shaco boxesShaco , heimer turretsHeimerdinger , zyra plantsZyra . And what about the Tahm Kench'sTahmKench of the rift, and the Taric'sTaric , and the Blitzcrank'sBlitzcrank that use relic shielditem 3302 , targons braceitem 3097 , and face of the mountainitem 3401 ? Those who rely on attacking cs to increase this items gold output? Are they now required to switch to Armor from talisman of ascension item 3069 , and to AP CC from frost queenitem 3092 ? Because a summoner spell that increases gold, but stops cs, would completely require a deletion of the Face of the mountain..item 3401 Furthermore, what happens to zzrotitem 3512 and banner of commanditem 3060? Do those items no longer allow gold income and cs increase?

I really like the idea. there is just many unanswered questions and concerns. Kinks, if you will.

RS1562 votes

Wave control is an important part of game. Removing the ability to wave clear from supports will actually decrease the support player base even more. I think it should still keep the ability to waveclear. Just remove the last hitting gold.

For second part, targon's can be reworked and gold income may be removed from each item. The three starting support items can be more of a stat stick. One way to so this can be that Fqc will give more ap and mana regen. Face of mountain will give you more tankiness. Talisman wont give you that much stats but it's summoner spell active may be stronger than the above items, therefore preferred by supports which do not rely on items. Thats just one possibility though. These items may be entirely reworked or even removed.

MrNhbdy2 votes

Not quite sure how to appropriately address this, but here goes.....

A Summoner Spell ( Ignite, Exhaust, Flash, etc.) all are ACTIVEABLE spells. This would not be good for consistent gold income. Additionally you are only able to have 2 Summoner Spells during a game, which means the support will be missing a useful spell inorder to gain more gold.The two most used Summoner Spells on a Support are Exhaust and flash. More gold does help bring more kills, but someone can counter what you buy by buying MR or Armor. You can't negate Exhaust as easily though and Flash is almost mandatory on any champ. I don't see an income Summoner Spell being more advantages then this.

The way you mention this SS it seems you have to buy certain items in order to have it.This is counter intuitive since you most select SS in the lobby before the game. You mentioned jungle items, but the reason these items are JG specific is because they are linked to Smite, not the other way around.With your idea you would have to rework MULTIPLE facets of the game just to make it balanced.

Someone actually came up with a idea to address the gold income for Supports. This idea was to apply a income boost to ruby sightstone and give the boost a relic shield effect ( only procs near allied champs). Something along those lines.....just thought I'd let ya know.

RS1561 votes

Yeah that may be true. That idea will be something like a preseason change rather than one patch change. If someone buffs sightstone then many junglers and even some top laners can buy that item and start abusing that extra gold income like philo stone. Buffing up gold income for support item is not easy as many laners will buy this item and cause some different meta. Giving gold income to sightstone still doesn't solve problems of may ap support that have to waste 800g on useless stat.

swordofsun1 votes

What about item 3302 and it's build path? Being unable to CS means that it's useless. This would require a major overhaul of the gold generating items (not necessarily a bad thing).

Would people with this spell be able to kill minions at all or just not get gold from it? Sometimes support is the only one clearing the wave pushing into tower or invading the base.

For low elos there's the problem of the ADC who does nothing (no CS, sits and waits to get kills, complains that no one is baiting the enemy into them) and the support has to become the ADC. Not being able to switch build paths and go after the CS would hurt support mains in this situation and make it even harder to climb out of bronze while supporting. Low elo problems, but still a concern.

RS1561 votes

They will be able to kill minions but last hitting wwill not give gold (similar to zzrot minions). Low elo is definately a problem and many people who cannot efectively cs will prefer this summoner but that will be not the most optimum way to use that champion so it will be balanced it that state. The gold income will be definately less than someone who can effectively cs.

Existential Bard1 votes

I think sightstone should be buffed in a way to give supports more survivability without changing the cost. My suggestion is to buff sightstone to give supports armor and magic resist that scales. I like support, but it feels bad when you can't survive because the enemy has been fed. Maybe make a mastery above the keystone in cunning that applies the buff when sightstone or one of its build items is in the inventory.

RS1561 votes

There are many supports that dont want to waste 800g early for tanky stats. They will prefer more early ap to harass the enemy adc rather that wards. Sightstone buff will even force them more to buy these items and early game harrasing suports like lux, sona will go out of meta or should be played differently. Also thia item still could be bought by other laners and junglers. This means the gold income must kept lower so that other laners/jg doesnt abuse it.

Existential Bard1 votes

No, I play Bard support and find I would much rather rush zzrot for the tank stats and extra lane pressure, rather than a sightstone which only gives health. I don't feel support should be given items to increase their damage since there are plenty of AP supports that do just fine (brand/lux/zyra). The supports that need the most attention are the utility/ sustain tanks like Bard, Braun, Leona.

Gravy Traín1 votes

Overall this idea is just horrible. I'm gonna list off everything I saw wrong in the first read through.

1: It's a PASSIVE SUMMONER SPELL. WHY!?!?!??! You would be missing out on exhaust for a little bit more gold. People would never take it even if it was added.

2: This goes against EVERYTHING that Relic Shield item 3302 , Targon's Brace item 3097 , and Face of the Mountain item 3401 do.

3: If supports can't kill creeps, then this makes supports who can help by putting lane pressure really weak.

4: The fact that you said "Sightstone is worthless" just shows that you don't belong in the support role anyways. Every support main I've ever met would be calling you a boosted monkey for saying that. Warding and putting out vision is an important job for supports, and Sightstone is THE BEST way of doing that. In addition, it allows you to take sweeper to reveal traps and still have wards.

5: You said you don't want this to be abused, but this is way more abusable than any other item ever made in the past. You specifically mentioned base Karthus as an example, but this item would probably be THE BEST THING THERE IS to encourage base Karthus.

Gravy Traín1 votes

6: You said make these support only like jungle only items and then buff them, but what decides if the player is a support and can build the item or not? It doesn't just know. It might know in new flex queue, but what about blind? Also, on that idea, what if people swap roles?

RS1561 votes

The three items may be something that provides one of the following

  1. Ap manaregen
  2. Something that provides heal/shield power with hp5 mp5
  3. Health with hp5

Ad champions wont get that summoner and as the player who takes this summoner wont get gold from lasthit it is pretty sure that champion will be a support

Gravy Traín1 votes

What about AD supports. -_- This doesn't really help this case at all.

RS1561 votes

There are no ad supports other than the obvious Master Yi support

Gravy Traín1 votes

Most of these are primarily tanks, but BraumLeonaSion(can support sometimes)Volibear(used to support a lot). Thresh and TahmKench can get some AD as well.

RS1562 votes
  1. Its not a passive summoner spell. The starting item you buy will change the summoner spell and indeed it will give more variety of summoner spells out of which one of them wpuld be like exhaust.
  2. Targons may be kept same but still it may get completely reworked
  3. Supports can kill creeps. Only rhing is they will not get gold for that. Pushing will nd creep wave control will still be present.
  4. Sightstone is one of the forced items on every support irrespective of its statwise importance. For some champs the 400 health may be good but many of the supports will prefer some damage early game rather than having sightstone's stat. Due its warding passive this item becomes mandatory to buy for even these supports. Even when they won their lanes they have to waste 800g for some mandatory ward item. Someone like lux, Sona will refer than ap to deny the enemy adc even more farm. As supports are relatively strongest at early game this weakens it altogether, therefore i called it worthless.
  5. To discourage other champions the gold income should be kept lower than what an actual laner generates and the the gold income must be pnly given when an ally is neaarby, similar to ancient coin without minions.

I think this may clear some of your doubts about my idea.

Gravy Traín1 votes

  1. I guess that's pretty nice.

  2. I don't like how you created something that has to destroy a fully functional concept currently in the game to be able to work.

  3. This makes clearing a wave feel really bad because all that gold is being lost.

  4. But it's NOT a WASTE. You keep saying it's worthless that they "waste" 800g for some health and INFINITE WARDS. Let me explain a really basic reason to you. Noone CARES if you denied 10 CS from the enemy ADC if you just got DOUBLE KILLED BY THEIR JUNGLER BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T WARD RIVER BUSH.

  5. The ally nearby seems like a pretty good option, but doing both of these would underpower this. Give it a pretty decent gold generation but only when an ally is nearby.

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