Dont Rework Shen!!!!

themerrytoad·12/21/2015, 6:14:44 AM·7 votes·1,023 views

I love Shen! Just as I used to love Gangplank, but his rework although making him more viable, made his gameplay less enjoyable. Shen on the other hand is already perfectly viable in most situations and fun to play, so why change him!?! A graphical update sure, but not a ability rework RITO. Don't do this to me bae..

P.S. Why isn't there an Assassin Shen skin yet? #obviousideas

Shen

17 Comments

ModThe Djinn12/21/2015, 5:11:29 PM3 votes

I'll post the same thing I did in the other thread about this same topic (and no, I'm not down-voting this: I like discussion, so have an up-vote instead).


{quoted}Tell me why Shen should change. Tell me why you constantly change champs that don't need it as compared to those champs that make the average gamer's life a living hell. Tell me in this discussion why you do this.

I'm not Riot (obviously), but sure!

Riot aims for three things in their champion design: Fantasy Fufillment, Unique Game Identity, and Gameplay Flow. They actually go for a bunch of other targets as well, but those are three of the big ones.

Let's look at Shen: he's supposedly a ninja, but he really plays like a large brick of a fellow who teleports around. A bit of cleaning up and adding some clearer evasion might help hone in on that fantasy a bit more, and make the player feel like an actual "ninja tank," instead of just a tank that looks like a ninja.

Shen's alright on Unique Game Identity in terms of his bit moments. His Ultimate is a pretty special ability, and I imagine that'll be kept in some form or another. His smaller moments are a little less interesting, but that's no necessarily a deal-breaker.

As far as Gameplay Flow, however, Shen's not that exciting. His abilities don't have much interaction or counterplay, nor many interesting uses. His main CC is also his only gapcloser, his Shield is rather boring, and his Q is just minor harass and healing. There aren't a lot of plays a Shen can make outside of his Ult and maybe a Flash + E.


This is, I'd imagine, why Shen is up for a MODERATE REWORK. The "moderate" part is important: I suspect he'll still retain much of what makes him Shen today, but with some added elements to better support the fantasy of a ninja tank.

In fact, we have Meddler's word that this is the case:

"The plan is to keep Shen as a tank, though we’ll be trying to find ways to have that make at least a little more sense thematically (so potentially a bit more evasion instead of just soaking/shielding damage)."

"In terms of gameplay changes, probably around Gangplank level (substantial modifications to about half his kit, some skills very similar however). "

"Odds are very high Stand United will remain his ult (might make some minor adjustments, but no fundamental changes). "

So, in short, Shen isn't quite living up to his intended Fantasy, and his moment-to-moment Gameplay isn't delivering on the level of interaction, counterplay, and general play-making ability that Riot really likes to see in a character.


Now, the champions that you say are problematic are often those that are over-tuned in terms of numbers, or have minor kit issues. Not that "commonly used," "often banned," and "perceived as overpowered" do NOT, however, mean a champion is inherently badly designed: it could mean their numbers are just a little too high, or that people just haven't properly figured out what to do against them yet.

zacktootall12/21/2015, 6:26:40 AM2 votes

this is a thing we need to fight for (mostly against those RITO protecter squads trying to troll and down voting everything) if most the people playing league like what a champ already has then dont change it. damn it RITO i thought you made this game for the players not just for your selves i challenge you RITO reply to this comment as to why shen should change?

themerrytoad12/29/2015, 8:54:49 AM1 votes

Merry Christmas or Kwanzaa or Hannukah or otherwise,

I appreciate that so many people like Shen:) but I can agree with both sides. I think it would be cool if his Taunt did more AP damage to make him more of an assassin. AP Tank Shen could be neat? But I really do like some of the ideas thrown out there. He's such a strong champ if played right and I just think all these reworks are getting a little tiresome. In addition, there wasn't much feedback on that Assassin Shen skin:'(...

What yall think?

P.S. Don't mind any spelling or grammar errors... And full ap shen could be even more funner!Shen item 1058 item 1058 item 1058

So this one time1/14/2016, 6:17:20 AM1 votes

Honestly, I'd hate to see shen's rework go live. As a Shen toplaner, i think this rework is total trash to his solo lane and only offers a moderate amount to his support ability. Shen actually loses some of the stuff that makes him a decent support, Free lifesteal for your carry. He loses sustain, harrass, ranged farm and his trading is now going to require your lane opponent be either half blind and not see were his sword is, or you need to taunt commit to every trade just to land the q. im honestly entirely dissappointed in this rework. Shen is currently viable and strong in this meta without being gamebreaking, and is capable of being impactful to the game as a whole. Many champs need alot more work than he does, like Yorick, or Teemo, their kits could be made into something actually enjoyable or useful for a team. All in all I think this rework is just a complete nerf to Shen's playability and I really dont know what triggered the need for this rework. Lets look at the last rework's Riots done. Soraka shes rediculously op and still hasn't been fully addressed for two seasons out side of some mana cost changes (lol-mana-cost"nerfs"). Sion, His passive is still terrible and actually loses scaling into the late game (the longer the game goes the shorter his passive lasts, This is a real thing look it up), Fiora.. Riot please.. Even you've said how broken you've made Fiora, And Poppy... actually I like alot about new Poppy and have nothing negative to say. GJ ,Poppy was well done and is really enjoyable now.

TL:DR

New Shen doesnt look well designed and removes to much from his kit, Dont take Shen's solo lane. Its all we got. @Riot

Vizente1/15/2016, 4:28:27 AM1 votes

I am also hating riots reworks. You spend time to learn and play the champ as it is, and then riot changes them forever because most of the players couldn't play the champ... I still miss Evelyn being constantly stealth and just burst kill adc or apc in one sec then run away. I used to get in the 20+ kills with her. As for shen, they wanted to change his shield because people dont play him as ap... I play him as ap, hes still tanky with his w scaling and he dos alot of damage. + the 3k ulti is great people should try it. Also changing him to have a giant spirit blade and swing a big two handed sword that isn't even the swords on his back inst ninja...sounds more like a native Indian war god to me... the visual update is great looking but the abilities are not impressive to me.

Little Stick Man12/21/2015, 6:26:38 AM1 votes

what gameplay did gangplank even have before the rework? all he did was ult and shoot shit with his q now he ults, shoots shit with q, and shoots barrels

Ýones1/17/2016, 4:23:56 PM1 votes

So I'm the only one who thinks reworked Shen is alot more cooler and better. ._.

StigtriX12/21/2015, 3:41:57 PM1 votes

Shen is struggling in the current meta as a toplaner and is now seen as support a lot. If that does not indicate a need for a rework, I do not know what does. I would love if his Q worked with his taunt to make for an interesting combo and add a much-needed tactical layer to the straight-forwardness that is Shen.