Boards›Concepts & Creations

Possible ideas for an Aatrox rework

Doom Doot··2 votes·1,050 views

Okay, so upon viewing the video by Redmercy (/watch?v=8J2QD8qWx9I for reference) and taking a look at the comments, it became pretty clear that people are currently very unsatisfied with the state Aatrox is in. And part of that is probably due to the fact that he doesn't feel like himself - his lore-self and his ingame-self seem to be different from another.

In his lore, Aatrox is this godlike creature (what Justicar Aatrox tries to depict) that intervenes in wars and changes their outcome - most of the time supporting the underdogs and leading them to victory. To them, he is a hero, or a god of war that showed them the way to win; giving them courage and "reigniting their fuel" (and lust) for battle and blood. On the other hand, to his enemies, he is a demon that tears through their lines, turning the tide of battle in an instant and inspiring fear and dispair in the hearts of those standing against him and his army. He dives head first into battle, tearing his enemies to shreds and (as seen in the case of Tryndamere) at the same time keeping his pawns alive, even if it means bending the rules (Tryndamere should have been dead, but managed to rise above what humans usually can do).

Gameplaywise, Aatrox is (supposed to be at least) a champion that dives into the enemy team and deals as much damage as possible, while also having to watch out that he doesn't go down too quickly. His ult is a self-buff (with minor AoE damage), which gives him a "sort of" berserker rage or blood lust buff. His W is a tool which he has to choose carefully; either he can up his survivability, or he can up his damage, but not both at once. The Q is his manner of engage (in itself a rather unique mechanic; at least when he was released) and his e is...just there actually; it doesn't really tie in with anything (except for maybe smoothening out some of his weakness against ranged champions). And his passive is basically just a "different" Anivia egg (the first portion) whereas the second portion (bloodwell-attackspeed) somewhat does actually seem to tie into his theme.

The disparity I can see between his lore and gameplay stem from the way his kit is designed: He is a frontliner, a bruiser that wants to get right into the battle and draw as much blood as possible. So far, we are getting along with the lore. But the way he does that just doesn't feel right: He is a solo engager that is dependant on his team following up on his engage so that his passive doesn't completely go to waste. On the other hand, he (technically) needs to be in the fight and stay alive for a while to reach his maximum potential (maxed out bloodwell), which is just virtually impossible when you're the engage your team relies on. Also the way that engage works doesn't at all tie in with the lore: His lore states (more or less) that Aatrox dove into the fight as a "second wind" kind of morale boost, not a "I'm getting in and doing this myself" type of leader. His Dark Flight just doesn't seem to offer the feeling of a reengage as it just doesn't offer anything to reengage off of - except for a comparably hard to hit knock-up (for comparison, look at i.e. Sion's knock-up which is almost guaranteed in a teamfight). Secondly, Riot created the theme of an inspiring champion (either bloodlust, or fear), which he simply doesn't do at all; he doesn't offer any buffs for the team. From a lore-based point of view, Aatrox should be the type of engager that has insane synergy with the traditional image of a Bruiser (i.e. Olaf or Darius) and give them a way to actually get into the fray.

Okay, now that we have that annoying explanation out of the way, we can move on to the suggestions - assuming you're still reading at this point, dear reader: (Disclaimer before we get into the actual suggestions: They will probably sound pretty OP, since I am no numbers-expert; forgive me for that short coming on my part).

  1. I personally would suggest a way more lore-based Aatrox design; a complete rework of how he works. In my opinion, Riot has created a champion with a beautiful lore for an engaging type of character, but created a lack-luster on the kit. That needs to be fixed. So as a first suggestion, I'd say that he needs a rework on his engage. His enagage should be something that drags his team along (like a Ryze or a Kled ult) and enables them to effectively follow him into the battle and get right into the middle of the enemy team. In my personal opinion, that would tie in way better with his lore than the current engage that just has a knock-up and doesn't really contribute anything to the team. Also, I'd suggest moving this (obvious) powerhouse to his ult - seeing as how such an engaging tool is very, very powerful and might be too hard to balance if set to a basic ability.

  2. The second major change I'd suggest would be his passive. This ability (for me) just doesn't add anything to the champ (as always, lore-wise). The attackspeed over time, yes maybe, but still then it should feel more like Jax' passive that lets you ramp up attackspeed by hurting others, not by hurting yourself - because I don't remember anything in his lore hinting towards Aatrox' masochistic ingame nature. Yes he is a diver, but that doesn't mean that he's a masochistic champ. If you take a look at it, the reworked Sion is a perfect example of how a non-masochistic champion can come from a (rather) masochistic kit: They just removed the self-damage part and tweaked his other numbers (and well...added the channel on his Decimating Smash; nice balancing idea - not even sarcastic here). So, the suggested change would be something along the lines of "Aatrox lusts for blood and gains X attack damage per unit slain (i.e. 0.1) and a larger amount for larger units" - basically Sion's Soul Furnace just with AD. Why? Because Aatrox is supposed to be this being that grows in the anticipation of battle; a creature that lives for the battle, recklessly taking lives for its own amusement (also his sword seemingly "grows stronger" with each enemy slain; see the Wiki for reference). Another benefit you gain from changing up his passive, would be the overhaul of how his sustain works - a champion that can heal for a few hundred HP off a non-crit if he is low enough (looking at you, Olaf) and basically has a second lifebar in store can not be balanced or healthy in any way (in my opinion). At least not if Riot doesn't want to tweak his numbers everytime an items that involves him changes. Back on track: If his passive got switched to this infinite scaling-passive, you'd get way more of the "this is my ultimate masterpiece"-battle type of feeling; the feeling that he grows each time he fights. DISCLAIMER (once again): The core idea of this reworked passive of mine would be the infinite scaling; if Riot wanted to, they could switch up HOW he scales infinitely (in strength though; that part's essential for my idea and understanding of his lore) to whatever - that's Riot's thing, and we've seen that they are very much capable of getting infinite scaling to work somehow without being completely broken (even Veigar is "just strong" a champ).

  3. A third issue with Aatrox, is the promised "I will inspire my team" part in his lore that completely got lost on the way into the actual game. I feel like Aatrox should be a pick that is strong in some team compositions, but can completely fall off in others. To be precise: I feel like Aatrox should be a teamfighting champion (as always I base this off his lore) and not a splitpushing duelist. For that I suggest Aatrox gets an AoE self- and teambuff that he can activate if certain conditions (i.e. at least 3 enemies around) are met. It would remove the toplane-island-king aspect that Aatrox had going for him when he was released - sidenote: he was seriously hard to duel and nigh impossible to stop from splitpushing due to his kit back then - and (re)introduce Aatrox to the teamfighting-composition scene. Now to the actual suggestion: In my opinion (and once again based on his lore) Aatrox should have a buff that inspires allies with a "berserker rage" type of feeling. A buff that makes it possible for his team to survive longer than usual, but at the same time deal more damage. Again, I know that this would probably make for a pretty potent ability, so either this would have to be tweaked down (level of a Warwick W) or we'd introduce a new mechanic (since at this point, this would be a new champ with an old lore: Maybe we could see the introduction of a second ultimate ability instead of a basic ability (aka. a basic ability with shittons of cooldown and special conditions to be met). This way the "conditional power" aspect of Aatrox would be kept alive, and additionally the lore potential could be finally realised. Just a general idea for balancing (while we're at it) could be that the buff loses 20% potency for each ally that is not in range - the ability wouldn't be useless when used alone, or with 1/2 more team members, but it'd definitely be weaker (-> conditional power). I feel like this combined with his "drag my team into the battle" engage would finally live up to the potential that I (personally) can see in his lore, but feel is totally lacking in actual gameplay. As an alternate idea, this buff could be set to his (proper) passive (seeing as that is what he passively did to the soldiers in his lore) and the scaling-thing could be set to a basic ability (like Soul Furnace).

  4. And lastly, I'd like to address an aspect of him that is definitely mentioned in the lore, but completely lacking in my idea so far: his sword. I 100% agree that Aatrox needs some interaction with his weapon, seeing as "this unknown hero cleaved through their enemies, his body and blade moving in unison as if one being" (again, quoted from the lore on the wiki). There should be an ability in his kit that makes his sword into a real weapon that actually does something - possibly the ability to whose passive the scaling is added; would at least fit design wise - such as adding an onhit-selfbuff like i.e. Fiora has. This is just one idea for a sword interaction - he could in theory even throw it like a hook - but to be honest this is a part that I find too tedious to actually take a look at, since there are so many countless possibilities of Aatrox interacting with his sword. And no offense to Riot, but I personally must say that the current interaction is just very, very lacking in actual interaction with the blade; it feels more like a switch that you press and then you go into healing mode.

I hope that my concept ideas - although them being really, really draft at this point - find some sort of recognition amongst the people who actually care about Aatrox (all four of them if possible) and that maybe even Rioters take a look at this and possibly take one or two ideas into consideration. Thanks for reading, and sorry for the wall of text - although that shouldn't be too unique here in this part of the forums.

PS: On a different note though, and in a direct question to Riot: When will we finally see an AD-Support champion? Could that possibly be the second Darkin (since we were promised five)? Again, thematically that would be a fitting role( very supportive lore you gave to Aatrox)

12 Comments

Simon Lancaster2 votes

Hey there Doomstar, Simon Lancaster here. I'm going to go over your suggestions, tell you what I think about them and then tell me what you think. Let's see if we can get the other three Darkin Aatrox players here too.

I feel like the main theme they were going for in the lore was "Demon Warleader", and that his ultimate should be the ability to reflect that. An idea I had was that upon cast, Aatrox would grant a buff (perhaps called Turn the Tides?) to his allies that gives them 'omni-vamp' (healing on damage dealt). Then, allies wold gain bonus damage based upon how low their collective health pool is. To explain, Aatrox ults with his team around him. Damage taken by anyone close enough to Aatrox boosts the damage his team deals, as a sort of symbiotic relationship between commander and troops. Perhaps the collective health pool thing is a bit out there, it could also be that Aatrox gains damage for each ally he 'inspired', or attack speed.

As for the other things, I have no idea at the moment of any cool, useful engaging abilities, or how to make his sword seem more important. Although, I don't think the sword should be too important - It's no spirit blade, perhaps it's alive, but it and Aatrox are virtually inseperable, almost one being, as you said. His E might be a good spot to work on that.

His W is rather uninspiring, but out of all of Aatrox's current kit, that and his ultimate are the things that feel most 'him'. The ult could definately be more so, and some work around the passive (preferably keeping some attack-speed-as-battle-goes-on element), Q and E could be redone to make him more of a leader than a duelist.

P.S. Pardon if some things I'm saying are repetitive or delirious, the medication at the dentist's is strong.

  • Summoner Simon Lancaster {{summoner:17}}
Doom Doot1 votes

I really like that "team buff" you suggested, since it does seem like the type of ability the Aatrox from the lore would use. Also, the 'heal' thing that you'd have going (for the team) would explain the bloodlust and the way he turned the tides of the battles in his lore. Also the idea of a collective health pool interacting the the abilities potency does seem rather interesting, although I can imagine it hard to balance that out - a heal that grows stronger the lower the champs are is generally a bad mechanic (i.e. Olaf; even tried to beat that fucker down, when he has some damage?).

I also agree on the point that Aatrox' W is probably what makes him Aatrox at the moment, so that should probably be one of the minor points of the rework (also this would fix the problem with the sword interaction that I found).

For the passive, I'm not sure whether the Attackspeed component really makes that much sense (even kit-wise), since he does (currently) gain attackspeed from his ult already. Of course, if Riot changed his ult into this aoe-heal thing, there'd be the possibility of attackspeed having to reenter his kit at a different point - although there are quite a few champions that have attackspeed scalings, but no attackspeed in their kit at all, like for example Vayne. Honestly, I'd actually prefer to see him not turning into this standard bruiser that builds Hydra into Visage into Sunfire; I'd prefer a different (maybe attackspeed-including) approach way more - the point where my suggestion with the passive AD would come in, since that could (in theory and if well executed) balance out the issue of not having any supporting damage.

The engaging tool would have to be somewhat similar to Kled's ult, or Aurelion Sol's E in my opinion; an ability that let's you engage from a long range (and if possible makes a follow-up from your team possible). If we take a look at the lore, the one battle we have details about in the lore, shows how Aatrox actually holds a speech before the battle and then diving into the battle, basically serving as the vanguard of his army. That's the reason why I'd expect a long range engage (with follow-up potential) rather than a short range jump like i.e. Kha'Zix has.

I'd really like so see if this actually manages to go into a certain direction, as (again, I can't put enough emphasis on this) there is such great potential in his lore that was simply never realised.

Statchecky1 votes

fk the lore, Aatrox just needs quality of life changes.

Doom Doot1 votes

It would seem you missed the point, didn't you? ^^

Statchecky1 votes

you want to delete the current Aatrox to make room for something else based on his lore, no? fk that.

Doom Doot1 votes

Well kind of, yes. Because the current Aatrox doesn't really fit Riot's design philosophy in my opinion: when they create a champion, they usually make it so that lore and champion design (ingame mechanics) work well together - at least for the "newer" champs, i.e. Zed or Ekko. But with Aatrox, this whole synergy thing between lore and gameplay doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure that I'm just one of very few who actually give a damn about lore, but it's a part of a character that should not be ignored. And yes, I am suggesting replacing the current Aatrox, because he simply is not a champion that works. Either you have him in a state where he is totally dominating, or you see him picked once every 300 games. He is a champion that is very item reliant; a champ that can grow rather tanky (but lacks CC) or can go full squish for damage (but falls off compared to other glasscannon champs). If you choose to play him as a bruiser (by the way) you run into the problem that you're neither really tanky, nor a heavy damage dealer. And that is something Riot needs to address especially since they already updated the Bruiser class (the one Aatrox probably struggles against the most) into them being damage beasts and tanks at the same time (take for example Darius or Garen). The short version of this is that Aatrox' Kit is something that doesn't fit into the League of Legends anymore, since it doesn't really offer what it promises: The high risk / high reward mechanic on his W is not rewarding at all if you choose to switch to damage (again, with a bruiser build), his engage offers little to no utility, his ult is a mediocre self buff (seriously, Warwick's W is technically more powerful and has less of a cooldown) and his passive just...doesn't fit the kit in my opinion (as well as the E); they're just there to round it off a little. If we want to keep the idea of Aatrox alive in League, we gotta take a look at what he promises and what he delivers and yes, there's a huge disparity between those two things. The easiest approach would be to scrap Aatrox' current set and replace it (or well, replace major parts) with something that actually works.

Hope this (second) wall of text didn't scare you out of a civilised discussion and that I managed to get my points across. GL and HF Dooomstar

Statchecky1 votes

{quoted}

Well kind of, yes. Because the current Aatrox doesn't really fit Riot's design philosophy in my opinion: when they create a champion, they usually make it so that lore and champion design (ingame mechanics) work well together - at least for the "newer" champs, i.e. Zed or Ekko.

Well, Zed is actually older than Aatrox but that's beside the point. This idea that Lore and Gameplay should work well together is not bad with limitations and in the case of Aatrox I think it is sufficiently met with his thirst for blood, his health cost being a balancing mechanic to his healing potential. From my point of view, the part of Aatrox's lore that rallies troops to fight has to be either purely inspirational by leading the fight (initiating), which he can already do a decent job of aided by his GA passive, or it would have to require some ability that does it for him overriding the control, in someway, from other players. we've seen this in small scale with Kalista and Tahm Kench and I'm not a fan of it, I don't think it is "healthy" for the game.

But with Aatrox, this whole synergy thing between lore and gameplay doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure that I'm just one of very few who actually give a damn about lore, but it's a part of a character that should not be ignored.

Synergy is there, this is just the first paragraph from his lore, which may change in the near future btw:

Aatrox is a legendary warrior, one of only five that remain of an ancient race known as the Darkin. He wields his massive blade with grace and poise, slicing through legions in a style that is hypnotic to behold. With each foe felled, Aatrox's seemingly living blade drinks in their blood, empowering him and fueling his brutal, elegant campaign of slaughter.

"Slicing through legions" is something that cannot or should not be translated into gameplay, this is an obvious one but just as an example of the limitations I refer to above. But "Aatrox's seemingly living blade drinks in their blood, empowering him and fueling his brutal, elegant campaign of slaughter" easily explains Blood Thirst.

And yes, I am suggesting replacing the current Aatrox, because he simply is not a champion that works. Either you have him in a state where he is totally dominating, or you see him picked once every 300 games. He is a champion that is very item reliant; a champ that can grow rather tanky (but lacks CC) or can go full squish for damage (but falls off compared to other glasscannon champs). If you choose to play him as a bruiser (by the way) you run into the problem that you're neither really tanky, nor a heavy damage dealer. And that is something Riot needs to address especially since they already updated the Bruiser class (the one Aatrox probably struggles against the most) into them being damage beasts and tanks at the same time (take for example Darius or Garen).

So when you say "or you see him picked once every 300 games", as I assume is the current state of Aatrox in your view, who cares? Do you want to play this guy? Or do you want to see others play this guy? And for those of us who already play him, don't you agree that your opinion is irrelevant here? But yes, Aatrox does have problems. Tanks on their own are not the issue but Juggernauts with executes are hard to deal with. This can be addressed with small changes and not many have been tried. One possible change is to have Aatrox's AD ratios work better with Sterak's.

The short version of this is that Aatrox' Kit is something that doesn't fit into the League of Legends anymore, since it doesn't really offer what it promises: The high risk / high reward mechanic on his W is not rewarding at all if you choose to switch to damage (again, with a bruiser build), his engage offers little to no utility, his ult is a mediocre self buff (seriously, Warwick's W is technically more powerful and has less of a cooldown) and his passive just...doesn't fit the kit in my opinion (as well as the E); they're just there to round it off a little.

The reasoning that a champions kit doesn't fit into the game due to falling short on its "potential", as you might already be aware, is flawed. The "potential" or "promise" referred to here, I assume, is based on lore. If you have for, example, Ekko with no lore, this would still be one of the best kits in the game. The comparison between Warwick's W and Aatrox's R is apples to oranges, Hunter's Call can be better with the right team comp but you ignore the base damage on Massacre (200/300/400 + 1.0 ap) and the range bonus it gives, which I grant is hard to use but it's not something to ignore. When it comes to switching between Price and Thirst, I think, this is where a big mistake was made in his Kit. If health cost's are used to balance out the sustain of Blood Thirst, why does the ability Blood Price(the ability that turns Blood Thirst off) have a health cost too? This to me is why Aatrox feels very item dependent, his kit makes more sense when Blood Thirst is on all the time and this, in a way, removes his sustained source of damage. As it stands, the safest ways to use Blood Price are in a combo to kill an opponent 1v1 or when opponents are running. A change I would like to see with W, minor change by the way, is to be able to toggle W while CC'd or in GA stasis.

If we want to keep the idea of Aatrox alive in League, we gotta take a look at what he promises and what he delivers and yes, there's a huge disparity between those two things. The easiest approach would be to scrap Aatrox' current set and replace it (or well, replace major parts) with something that actually works.

"If we want to keep the idea of Aatrox alive" well this is subjective, the idea of Aatrox according to who? I've read enough rework concepts on these boards to be somewhat entertained sometimes but usually glad Riot will most likely be oblivious to the suggestion. "The easiest approach would be to scrap Aatrox" and there you have it, our major disagreement. I know, as stated above, you only mean to scrap as much as needed and not Aatrox as a whole, but at the end of the day that's what if feels like. Fiora was not deleted from the game, that's just what it feels like.

Well this is the wall of text I was hoping to avoid, I hope it doesn't scare you off or was civilized enough. Thanks for reading.

Simon Lancaster1 votes

True enough, what you've said. Really though, Aatrox is in a weird state, his kit functions pretty well if you have a team that will work with you, otherwise it feels like you're a suicide bomber, ha ha. Riot could definately give him a little attention, and they probably wouldn't have to go so far as a rework to make him feel a bit better (he does play pretty well right now, and RedMercy has some pretty good points though), but even if Doomstar and I just happen to be extremely bad at Aatrox (it's always possible, ah ha), it's still good fun to think of new abilities that would fit a Demon Warleader, even if that isn't nessecarily Aatrox. Also, you did mention how his W had some issues. Any ideas you think might make his kit/health costs flow a bit easier?

  • Simon
Third Réich 1 votes

Why would u wanna change his passive his passive is good I main him and he's pretty op and late game I carried my team to victory. If u change his kit and his Spells it would take time for me to get use to and need to think of a build. So I think that Aatrox shouldn't get reworked he pretty good in my book and doesn't need a rework.

Doom Doot1 votes

Well boohoo, that argument itself is as flawed as it gets. Aatrox is a champ that is poorly designed (by today's standards) and requires a rework to get over these flaws. And to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what you are doing to carry your team late game, since everytime I saw an Aatrox, all he could do was fall off lategame: The champion's kit doesn't support a tank or a bruiser playstyle, as he needs some damage to actually deal damage (obviously) and to heal off his W, but at the same time he needs the tankyness of a tank build to survive the initial engage (and not lose his entire stacked up pool in the first seconds). Right now, he's a champ that requires another champ to actually engage and lock the enemy team down in order to be useful in teamfights, and that is not what we've been promised from the lore. Aatrox himself is supposed to be the leader, not someone that follows. He himself is the one that turns the tides of battle, not the one that just joins at some point when his mere presence makes enough of a difference already.

And to that argument of "I main him, so changes would require more getting used to it": guess what Ryze mains had to go through over the seasons. Try and figure what Sion mains (prior to his rework) had to get used to after his rework; his entire playstyle had changed completely. Something similar goes for Graves; that champ got completely revamped in terms of style. Reworks are there to give poorly designed champs or just straight up unpopular champs a chance to get some love, a chance to actually find their own nieche in the League of Legends. Because, let's be honest here: for everything Aatrox adds to the team, there is at least one champ that can do it better, making it more efficient to pick a full tank in Aatrox' stead.

Statchecky1 votes

The only thing that comes to mind, other than removing the cost on Blood Price, is to have any damage taken contribute to Blood Well's charge (or at least some percent of it) so that he can spend more time in the safety of Blood Thirst while still ramping up attack speed. Or having At least his W scale with base ad/total ad so that he can make better use of Sterak's.

More from Concepts & Creations

A completely serious, totally legit question for Riot.
Concepts & Creations183 comments
2,280
votes
[Champion Concept] DhaMa, The Force of Balance
Concepts & Creations931 comments
1,424
votes
Elderwood Kindred
Concepts & Creations176 comments
1,062
votes
Bring Urgot's Nipple Back!
Concepts & Creations94 comments
985
votes
Petition To Have An Old Lady Champion
Concepts & Creations481 comments
947
votes
When Tahm Kench eats Lulu, he should say that it tasted purple!
Concepts & Creations109 comments
826
votes