Singed Rework Concept

InsanitysTheName·Aug 12, 2016·8 votes·2,162 views

So I was thinking about what Singed would look like reworked and this happened. Tell me what you think!

Passive - Poison Trail

Singed lays a poisonous trail behind him that deals 10/30/50/70/90 (+20% Ability Power) (Levels 1/5/9/13/18) magic damage per second for 2 seconds.

Rylai’s Crystal Scepter does not apply to his passive.

Q - Corrosive Flask

Singed throws a flask at a target location, applying a corrosive potion to all enemies struck that deals 65/120/185/225/260 (+60% Ability Power) magic damage. If the flask strikes an enemy champion it explodes in a greater range and applies a Mark of the Chemist for 5 seconds to all champions struck.

Cooldown: 14/12/10/8/6 Mana Cost: 40/60/80/100/120 Cast Range: 1000 Radius: 75 Champ Explosion Radius: 250

W - Frozen Trail

Passive: Increases Singed's Ability Power by 10 for every 100 Bonus Health he has.

Active: Singed changes his brew by adding a freezing mixture for 5 seconds. Singed poison applies a debuff that slows enemies for 30% for 3 seconds, and then stuns them for 1 second.

Cooldown: 20 Mana Cost: 40/30/20/10/0

E - Fling

Singed flings an enemy over his shoulder, dealing 50/80/110/140/170 (+2/4/6/8/10% of Singed's Bonus Health) as magic damage. If the target Singed flings has a Mark of the Chemist, they are also rooted for 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds.

Cooldown: 12/11/10/9/8 Mana Cost: 80/90/100/110/120 Cast Range: 175

R - Insanity Potion

Singed drinks a potent brew of chemicals, granting him double speed, double damage from his passive, and a 40% slow on his passive for 8 seconds. Upon activation a global laugh is heard.

Cooldown: 140/120/100 Mana Cost: 100

How about a Drink? --

Edit 1: Added W rankings and added global laugh to ult.

36 Comments

CrimsonCobra3Aug 12, 20162 votes

Wait a second--under what conditions does his passive activate? Hold on. It's always on. Ow.

InsanitysTheNameAug 12, 20161 votes

Yeah its weaker than live but your correct. Ow.

Ghost A5sa5sinAug 12, 20161 votes

im sure i see ur point however u could make his ult give him a bonus to damage equal to percent health instead of the heal and movements speed as i see its not as good as when he was released

InsanitysTheNameAug 12, 20161 votes

Yeah i shifted most of his ults power into his new Q. I was hoping that he would still be a fairly binary laner but his ult would give him something to do in teamfights. 2x speed is fairly powerful.

CrimsonCobra3Aug 13, 20161 votes

The main thing that keeps it alright in live is that Singed is forced to build mana (Tear) to use it often, and even then it never quite gets to the point of 'always on.' So this would be a gigantic buff to his early game and a moderate buff to his mid and late game.

InsanitysTheNameAug 14, 20161 votes

I was thinking along the lines of:

I see a Singed once in 500 games
He probably needs a buff

CrimsonCobra3Aug 14, 20161 votes

Well... that's not his only problem.

InsanitysTheNameAug 15, 20161 votes

I agree. I hoped giving him a Q would give him a more interactive laning phase. Even if Singed ran at you at level 2 with Q and E with this kit he probably wouldn't kill you. Would agree that against tankier opponents without much CC ( Garen Darius Illaoi Irelia ) he would recieve a significant laning buff to his early game and mid game.

CrimsonCobra3Aug 15, 20161 votes

Indeed. It'd have to be tried for us to really know how it would turn out, but I'd say it's on the strong side.

TheDogOfSteelAug 12, 20162 votes

Neat concept but poison trail being on all the time would make csing the easiest thing in the world.

Still a cool concept and worth an upvote.

(also q at max rank costs more than ult)

InsanitysTheNameAug 12, 20161 votes

I wanted to preserve the braindead Singed gameplay.

Friendly RamAug 12, 20162 votes

i like the idea but not sure on giving singed any more hard cc. he's more about being obnoxious and making the enemy want to chase him then wanting them to stop.

InsanitysTheNameAug 12, 20161 votes

Fair feedback

BârdAug 12, 20162 votes

Passive: His old main damage source, but permanently on at no cost. Not broken at all. Yes, the damage is lower, but you put enough damage elsewhere in his kit that it doesn't even matter.

Q: One of Singed's core weaknesses is his lack of a ranged skill. This blows that away, with a massive nuke, but the tiny radius (even when you hit a champion it is small) makes it bad for pushing, which is the only thing Singed ever does. Adds too much damage, as well as a ranged farming tool, to Singed's kit.

W: You get literally nothing for more than 1 point in it. Also, this allows Singed to hit 300 AP with a full tank setup. Too powerful of a passive. Also, don't give Singed a stun. That is just asking for trouble.

E: An argument could be made for his E scaling off of Singed's HP instead of the target's, but that root is out of the question. Singed's current root is balanced because it is damn near impossible to pull off; this is basically guarunteed.

R: Singed's current ultimate grants him 25 seconds of a moderate increase to his speed, AP, regen, and defenses. This makes it incredible for doing what Singed does best; running around wasting the time of enemies. This ultimate is a massive increase to his speed, damage, and utility, but with a short duration. This would turn Singed into a champion who wants to engage instead of a champion mean to apply permanent pressure, and I don't like that.

tl;dr Too powerful, and doesn't maintain Singed's playstyle.

InsanitysTheNameAug 12, 20161 votes

I always imagined Singed's playstyle as more of an engage tank with fling. However, after that ability is down he just runs around causing havok. Singed's core weakness right now in my opinion right now it that similar to a juggernaut he has trouble getting you you. If he does he gets to use all his damage. I was really trying to give Singed more depth to his kit because right now he can ONLY apply pressure. I wanted him to continue that but also have something to do in teamfights. Good feedback though.

redfeenixAug 12, 20162 votes

I dont like the idea of making his main spell his passive. He really needs to manage his mana, and thats an aspect of singed that should never change.

For w, I like the idea of throwing an unstable contoxtion. Nice idea

I think it should be like this:

Passive: Singed gets bonus movement speed equal to 10% of his max mana (or whatever % is balanced). MS for singed is good, encourages mana builds

Q:Same as Live

W Sticky Concoction: Throw a sticky bomb in an area which SLOWS all enemies. Flinging an enemy into the sticky area will knock them down and GROUND them. (Same effect as LIVE w, but now uses grounded).

E: Same as Live

R: Same as Live

Great ideas in the OP

Votable JesterAug 12, 20161 votes

Difficult for me to judge in my tired state, but right now, the W seems to have just 1 rank to it.

InsanitysTheNameAug 12, 20161 votes

Forgot about that thanks

ZT XperimentorAug 12, 20161 votes

Nice forethought preventing the crystal scepter from working on his passive, then buffing his ultimate; but his poison trail always on without limitation? I'd suggest some kind of inhibitor, like he only benefits half of max mana on items or something, to give him some kind of meaningful penalty.

InsanitysTheNameAug 12, 20161 votes

Thats a good idea. Kind of like Yasuo's double passive but with an upside and a downside. Would work thematically too because he's a mad chemist

ZT XperimentorAug 13, 20161 votes

Agreed; though I like how you kept his synergy to add a root on his fling, but the corrosive flask seems like it could easily be dodged for having such a high mana cost. Unless it's a quickly traveling projectile such as ziggs bombs?

InsanitysTheNameAug 13, 20161 votes

Was thinking Zilean bomb speed. It has a longer range so a little slower though.

ZT XperimentorAug 13, 20161 votes

Ah ok, I wondered if it was a bit slower since the splash damage increases in size, if it hits an enemy champion.

InsanitysTheNameAug 14, 20161 votes

Was really trying to add some meaningful lane interaction as well as waveclear into his kit. Seemed like a thematically relevant way to do it without making him a poke mage.

ZT XperimentorAug 14, 20161 votes

Makes sense. Now that I look at it again I'll ask, why did you remove his synergy of gaining health from mana?

InsanitysTheNameAug 15, 20161 votes

Other than a stat buff it provided little interactive gameplay. Mana management cant exactly be a key element to a kit unless the whole kit revolves around it. The Health to AP passive I added incentives a tanky build over an AP heavy build while keeping items like Rod of Ages good on him.

ZT XperimentorAug 15, 20161 votes

Little interactivity? It means he can build utility and usually not get instakilled in fights, that's pretty interactive. Most mages rely entirely on managing mana, anivia & swain being very obvious examples; if they run out they're useless. Both things can be said with half the champions in the league, some are new ones! Taliyah gets movement speed on her worked ground, aurelionsol's stars execute minions when they're low, jihn gains attack damage based on attack speed, kindred gains a scaling botrk effect with each bagged mark, tahm's shield is only as effective as his health is; and so on. Stat checking and self synergy has always been some kind of mechanic, some more abusive than others, but that's ingrained everywhere in the game.

Singed is front liner, and you want to remove some of his survivability? I appreciate keeping the double dip kind of mentality on him; but something like 'gains an extra +5% Max health from items' would incentivize tanky-ness better. Most people build ability power as an afterthought already; but I doubt either of our ideas would make him being played like a mage, viable.

InsanitysTheNameAug 15, 20162 votes

I couldn't type a longer reply at the time but the real answer to your above question about why taking away the mana to health passive is not about it being interactive. I'll try to be more clear.

I'm going to remain firm on my aurguement that mana management should not be a CENTRAL gameplay element because it is not very interactive. Mage's mana management is defintely a core part of their class, but if mana management is the only gameplay element anivia focuses on, she will lose out on what I believe are the high moments of her gameplay - Critting with her E or stunning a high priority target and one shotting them.

However, I totally agree with you that the self synergizing passives are essential to many character's success.

When creating a self synergizing stat buff there are a few things to consider:

What build do you want to incentivize.
What build do you want to deinsentivize.
Either - what do you want the characted to recieve from buying the incentivized stat or what stat do you want the character to buy in order to recieve the incentivized stat.

For this Singed rework we agree on numbers 1 and 2. We want Singed to buy health and not to buy AP. Number 3 however is the tricky one.

Currently Singed uses a mana to health system. I would argue this works on his current character because he wan'ts to purchase mana to extend his Q's maximum duration. If I added the same passive to the reworked Singed however, he would not have much to do with all the mana. This led me to a stat he WOULD like regardless of the stat passive, AP. That's the reasoning for why I originally chose that passive but I want to talk about why avoiding something like a %hp boost is a good idea.

First, yes, that would incentivize tankyness a WHOLE lot more. There are some downsides however. First, if super tanky is the only optimized build, then Singed's base damages need to be high to make him impactful. This can be scary because it can lead to an extremely strong early to mid game as well as a stagnant late game. Second, if the base damages are very high, the AP ratios need to be lower to halt any potentially strong off meta mage Singed build. The Health to AP allows for a linear progression of damage in relation to health, which allows for his enemies to feel comftorble with the amount of damage Singed is doing.

I would argue that a passive like %hp boost from items is cool and should definetly be used on a future champion. It work great on a Tahm Kench or Mundo like character who wants health and only health because he scales off only his health. However, I don't think its right for Singed with these reworked abilities specifically.

I hope that answers your questions!

ZT XperimentorAug 19, 20161 votes

Oh duh, I was overlooking the major change you did to his poison when you moved it to be his passive, you removed the mana cost, and thus the need to need excessive mana. Though I was being ridiculous with my comment about bonus health, I agree it should be for a primary tank, lol. And yes it did!

InsanitysTheNameAug 19, 20162 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Rain NTAug 15, 20161 votes

Not a bad idea. Bet Riot would use one of these when they rework him, making his Q a passive instead of an ability. And having his perma slow as an ability is an awesome idea.

KeepeAug 15, 20161 votes

Eeeeh. My complaint is that it seems to force him from his respective role as a tank whose main job is to be a pain in the butt to a brawler. Not sure that would be healthy especially with this kit.