At first I thought there would never be a child yordle because they are spiritual beings (Or so I heard) but I recently read Kennen's lore and a bit says "Kennen was born in Bandle City and it was said that in his first living moments he bolted first from the womb" So that must mean there is yordle children. I read that the average Yordle is 2 feet tall so... how big would a child yordle and a newborn be?
KFCeytron2 votesConcepts & Creations is for fan work. Discussion on Riot's official lore goes in Story, Art, & Sound.
SSmotzer1 votesI don't think that is cannon anymore.
The way I see it yordles are born when there is a job to be done that no one is doing. So they just kinda poof into existence? So their size probably wouldn't change much, since, you know, they are already so small.
Oh! I know, they are like Mogwai from Gremlins, and they just kinda spawn from each other, and evil yordles, like Veigar, are like the Gremlins... in Gremlins.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesI don't think that is cannon anymore.
The way I see it yordles are born when there is a job to be done that no one is doing. So they just kinda poof into existence? So their size probably wouldn't change much, since, you know, they are already so small.
Oh! I know, they are like Mogwai from Gremlins, and they just kinda spawn from each other, and evil yordles, like Veigar, are like the Gremlins... in Gremlins.
Why should it not be canon anymore?
It is still part of Kennen's bio and hasn't been removed from it.
Literally nothing has come up during the past few years to contest this previously established lore, other than what you want Yordles to be yourself.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-10-30T14:48:08.283+0000)
Why should it not be canon anymore?
It is still part of Kennen's bio and hasn't been removed from it.
Literally nothing has come up during the past few years to contest this previously established lore, other than what you want Yordles to be yourself.
You think that about everything I say. Even when I have evidence that supports what I am saying.
What little nuggets we have on the new yordle lore says that they are born to do a job, and they tend to take their job a little too far, and presumably yordles without jobs become more mischievous, and eventually turn malicious.
Besides, yordles are immortal ageless spirits, if they did have children, there would be an exponential amount of yordles. Veigar is literally older than Noxus itself and saw mortals trying to reclaim celestial magic for themselves after the Darkin War, that's where he learned to pull stars from the sky.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesYou think that about everything I say.
I do and that is wrong of me.
I should've given you at least a chance to defend your opinion.
Apologies.
What little nuggets we have on the new yordle lore says that they are born to do a job, and they tend to take their job a little too far, and presumably yordles without jobs become more mischievous, and eventually turn malicious.
Source.
"Born to do a job and dedicating your life to that job" is not the same as "appearing out of fucking nowhere".
In real life, everyone is born to do a job at some point as well but that doesn't mean we just appear out of nowhere when we need someone to do that specific job.
Besides, yordles are immortal ageless spirits, if they did have children, there would be an exponential amount of yordles.
Just because an immortal species can have children doesn't mean they dedicate every waking moment to have as many as possible.
Besides, who's to say there isn't an exponential amount of Yordles?
We have no idea how many Yordles there are.
Bandle City is an intangible dimension, there's probably a lot of space there for all of them.
Veigar is literally older than Noxus itself and saw mortals trying to reclaim celestial magic for themselves after the Darkin War, that's where he learned to pull stars from the sky.
I'm not disputing that they are immortal, I'm disputing that they can literally poof into existence out of nowhere.
Even when I have evidence that supports what I am saying.
So much for "evidence".
None of what you presented directly invalidates previously established lore and is very loosely tied together.
SSmotzer2 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-30T18:41:38.371+0000)
- Source.
The Ask Riot they talked about Bandle City.
- "Born to do a job and dedicating your life to that job" is not the same as "appearing out of fucking nowhere".
In real life, everyone is born to do a job at some point as well but that doesn't mean we just appear out of nowhere when we need someone to do that specific job.
Except that humans aren't shape shifting, dimension hopping, spirits. You can't just say a spirit and a flesh and blood human reproduce in the same way.
Saying a turn of phrase used in his original outdated lore is proof enough that yordles physically reproduce is like saying Kayle and Morgana are immortal aliens from another planet, because it is still part of their bio and hasn't been removed from it.
Just because an immortal species can have children doesn't mean they dedicate every waking moment to have as many as possible.
Besides, who's to say there isn't an exponential amount of Yordles?
We have no idea how many Yordles there are.
Bandle City is an intangible dimension, there's probably a lot of space there for all of them.
Because yordles without jobs become lost and eventually turn evil, and there's nothing suggesting there is just a dimension of eternal shapeshifting twisted dark magic crea.... wait a minute.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000c,timestamp=2018-11-02T13:54:57.606+0000)
Yes, anything would fall into a trope, but it's Riot's choice if they want to go through with the trope to the end.
I suppose, but jumping from one trope to another does kind of break the cohesion of a characters identity.
Yasuo could give up on finding his master's killer and then become a completely new character... but I don't think the fans would enjoy getting their expectations subverted like that.
Just look at Last Jedi, it subverted expectations and long time fans are calling for boycotts of Disney films as a result.
I want to explain it like this.
Say you have 100 different instances of a furry spirit.
60 of them reproduce through magic, whereas 40 of them reproduce through "normal" means.
It would be generic if Riot chose the first option, whereas it would be quote on quote "original" if they chose the latter.
No. No it doesn't.
So long as the furry creature stands out, it is not generic, even if it has been done time and time again.
Deku from My Hero Academia should be a bog standard generic anime protagonist, but he outshines 99% of anime protagonists that came before him, despite being exactly the same as them. He doesn't subvert any tropes, he doesn't look unique, and his personality has been done time and time again, and yet he stands among giants in anime like Goku.
That sounds exactly like an appeal to probability?
You're saying that because it is most likely the case, then it's true.
Except what am I pointing to and saying that it must be true? Saying something has "a high likelihood" and saying something 'must be" are two very different things.
I focused more on the part that you say it's true because it cannot be proven that it's false.
Except that is not my only supporting argument. If it was, then yes, I would have committed a fallacy.
You generalized how Yasuo's story is going to turn out based on how previous stories turned out.
But saying his outcome will not be unique is not a generalization. Saying he will follow one of many paths is not generalizing.
And I'd say that's fallacious since there's no concrete evidence anywhere to support it.
Except following patterns is evidence.
Calls it into question, perhaps, but it doesn't mean that previously established lore is now invalid.
Or, it doesn't mean that it's not a possibility at least.
Unless disproven, of course.
The previous lore does not bring up the reproducing cycle of yordles. All the previous lore mentions is a womb, and that could be anything in fiction.
Yes, it is fallacious of me to say that this is 100% the case.
I'm just saying that there's more evidence within the context of the League universe itself to support that they give normal birth, than the leading counter argument (popping up out of nowhere) which only has evidence outside of the context of the League universe itself.
No there isn't. The only context you have is a single turn of phrase in outdated lore that you are taking literally.
LEAGUE ISN'T A MOVIE.
I've already agreed that movies have to have a story, but League isn't one.
Then why does Riot constantly say they want to make movies?
No?
Undertale (as of July 2018) has only sold 3,5 million copies.
Call of Duty, on the other hand, has sold over 250 million copies and this is just as of February 2016.
Call of Duty is WAY more beloved than Undertale by a large margin.
And more people went to see Expendables than Dreamwork's Iron Giant, but that doesn't mean Iron Giant isn't more beloved than Expendables.
Sure, because they care about having a story.
But the story itself isn't obligatory.
A story helps sell a product. Riot wants to sell a product.
I... I don't understand what you're trying to say.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesI suppose, but jumping from one trope to another does kind of break the cohesion of a characters identity.
Yasuo could give up on finding his master's killer and then become a completely new character... but I don't think the fans would enjoy getting their expectations subverted like that.
Just look at Last Jedi, it subverted expectations and long time fans are calling for boycotts of Disney films as a result.
Nobody is expecting Yasuo's killer to be his father, but you.
If anything, everyone wants it to be Riven.
Okay, "nobody" and "everyone" is generalizing, I know, but you are the only one I've come across that's actually been vocal about believing it's his father.
No. No it doesn't.
So long as the furry creature stands out, it is not generic, even if it has been done time and time again.
Deku from My Hero Academia should be a bog standard generic anime protagonist, but he outshines 99% of anime protagonists that came before him, despite being exactly the same as them. He doesn't subvert any tropes, he doesn't look unique, and his personality has been done time and time again, and yet he stands among giants in anime like Goku.
I'm not saying something generic can't be popular.
In most cases, it's the generic things that DO get popular.
I'm just saying that doing something generic goes against Riot's stance of making their own lore.
Except what am I pointing to and saying that it must be true? Saying something has "a high likelihood" and saying something 'must be" are two very different things.
You're the one saying it even has a high likelihood in the first place.
Except that is not my only supporting argument. If it was, then yes, I would have committed a fallacy.
What are your other supporting arguments, then?
But saying his outcome will not be unique is not a generalization. Saying he will follow one of many paths is not generalizing.
Except following patterns is evidence.
These "patterns" are outside of the context of the League of Legends universe itself.
If I found a pattern amongst the Undead from "insert X franchise here", that doesn't mean I can apply that pattern to the Undead from League.
Because these two different instances of Undead aren't related to each other in any capacity.
The previous lore does not bring up the reproducing cycle of yordles. All the previous lore mentions is a womb, and that could be anything in fiction.
No there isn't. The only context you have is a single turn of phrase in outdated lore that you are taking literally.
You are the one that claims it's a "turn of phrase".
You are the one claiming it's outdated lore.
Yet, there is no official sources from Riot confirming either.
Ekko's lore says:
"Born with genius-level intellect, Ekko constructed simple machines before he could crawl. Amazed by these displays of brilliance, his parents, Inna and Wyeth, vowed to provide a good future for their son."
Am I to believe that "born" is just a "turn of phrase" and that Ekko was artificially created in a laboratory?
Am I to believe that "his parents" and "their son" are just "turns of phrases" and that they are just the scientists that watched over the creation process and that he is just their creation?
Not everything has to up to interpretation.
Then why does Riot constantly say they want to make movies?
I don't see Riot "constantly" saying they want to make movies anywhere.
Movies make money.
And more people went to see Expendables than Dreamwork's Iron Giant, but that doesn't mean Iron Giant isn't more beloved than Expendables.
Nice save there. You couldn't find an argument in video games so you just jump straight over to movies.
No, that definitely means that Expendables is more beloved than Iron Giant.
If the vast majority of people would rather want a sequel to X rather than a sequel to Y, then that most definitely means that X is more beloved than Y.
Otherwise, people would be asking JUST AS MUCH for a sequel to Y.
A story helps sell a product. Riot wants to sell a product.
I... I don't understand what you're trying to say.
League of Legends' "sales" (if you can call it that) in the first few years were exponential, despite nobody knowing that there even was lore.
League of Legends never needed a story to be successful, it's just a choice Riot decided to take.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-11-03T09:16:21.146+0000)
I'm not saying something generic can't be popular.
In most cases, it's the generic things that DO get popular.
I'm just saying that doing something generic goes against Riot's stance of making their own lore.
...But they can make their own lore with it still being generic. The two aren't incompatible.
What are your other supporting arguments, then?
That time and space works differently from yordles. That they are spirits. That they are tied to their jobs.
These "patterns" are outside of the context of the League of Legends universe itself.
Except that they aren't. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Everything effects everything else.
If I found a pattern amongst the Undead from "insert X franchise here", that doesn't mean I can apply that pattern to the Undead from League.
Because these two different instances of Undead aren't related to each other in any capacity.
Except for all of the similarities the undead in LoL have with undead from other franchises. Like silver, light, and holy relics being able to hurt the undead and demonic entities in LoL, just like they do in nearly every other franchise.
You are the one that claims it's a "turn of phrase".
You are the one claiming it's outdated lore.
Yet, there is no official sources from Riot confirming either.
Ekko's lore says:
"Born with genius-level intellect, Ekko constructed simple machines before he could crawl. Amazed by these displays of brilliance, his parents, Inna and Wyeth, vowed to provide a good future for their son."
Am I to believe that "born" is just a "turn of phrase" and that Ekko was artificially created in a laboratory?
Am I to believe that "his parents" and "their son" are just "turns of phrases" and that they are just the scientists that watched over the creation process and that he is just their creation?
Not everything has to up to interpretation.
Okay, I want you to take a deep breath, calm down, and reread what you wrote.
Did it say Ekko came out of the womb bouncing through time?
I don't see Riot "constantly" saying they want to make movies anywhere.
Movies make money.
https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/03/ask-riot-movie-voice-item-sets/
Nice save there. You couldn't find an argument in video games so you just jump straight over to movies.
I doesn't matter what I say because you will just keep saying "but it isn't LoL."
Do you honestly want me to find examples only relating to video games, because it's not that hard, and if I do, are you going to say it's still not LoL?
No, that definitely means that Expendables is more beloved than Iron Giant.
If the vast majority of people would rather want a sequel to X rather than a sequel to Y, then that most definitely means that X is more beloved than Y.
Otherwise, people would be asking JUST AS MUCH for a sequel to Y.
You can't honestly believe that can you?
John Carpenter's The Thing was panned by critics and did awful in the box office. Clint Eastwood's Firefox made double what The Thing made, and that was Firefox's second week in theaters. Clearly Firefox is more than twice as beloved as The Thing.
What's weird is, despite Firefox obviously being the more profitable and beloved movie, studios keep trying to remake the Thing.... Now why would they want to do that when Firefox is easily the better bet? I just don't understand.
See that, that's you right now.
League of Legends' "sales" (if you can call it that) in the first few years were exponential, despite nobody knowing that there even was lore.
League of Legends never needed a story to be successful, it's just a choice Riot decided to take.
Because LoL was one of the first mobas, and the first to get a stand alone client, and it's because of LoL's willingness to tell a story that it still overshadows DOTA, and every other moba.
Like how PUBG became the most popular game in the world, because it was the first stand alone battle royal game, but it's because of it's lack of story and characters that it toppled the second something challenged it, being Fortnite. Fortnite has lore, it's trying to telling a story, and that's why it is winning. Well that and the titular Player Unknown is a big baby and gave up developing his game if he wasn't on top.
Warlord Rhinark1 votes...But they can make their own lore with it still being generic. The two aren't incompatible.
#But Riot has literally stated they aren't going to do things that are generic.
It was in the article you sent me yourself.
That time and space works differently from yordles. That they are spirits. That they are tied to their jobs.
And all of these combined = "pops up out of nowhere"?
Except that they aren't. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Everything effects everything else.
That's bull.
X franchise has no influence on Y franchise unless both are confirmed to be within the same universe.
Except for all of the similarities the undead in LoL have with undead from other franchises. Like silver, light, and holy relics being able to hurt the undead and demonic entities in LoL, just like they do in nearly every other franchise.
But that doesn't mean everything that applies to X Undead also applies to Y Undead.
Okay, I want you to take a deep breath, calm down, and reread what you wrote.
Did it say Ekko came out of the womb bouncing through time?
No, but as you've already said, words don't mean anything and everything is just up to the individual's interpretation.
https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/03/ask-riot-movie-voice-item-sets/
Anything you want to add to this or?
I doesn't matter what I say because you will just keep saying "but it isn't LoL."
Do you honestly want me to find examples only relating to video games, because it's not that hard, and if I do, are you going to say it's still not LoL?
No, I don't want you to find examples at all.
Yes, I will.
You can't honestly believe that can you?
John Carpenter's The Thing was panned by critics and did awful in the box office. Clint Eastwood's Firefox made double what The Thing made, and that was Firefox's second week in theaters. Clearly Firefox is more than twice as beloved as The Thing.
What's weird is, despite Firefox obviously being the more profitable and beloved movie, studios keep trying to remake the Thing.... Now why would they want to do that when Firefox is easily the better bet? I just don't understand.
See that, that's you right now.
Is it stated that anyone WANTS a sequel to Firefox?
The studio itself can have reasons to remake a movie that differ from the reasons the audience have.
Because LoL was one of the first mobas, and the first to get a stand alone client, and it's because of LoL's willingness to tell a story that it still overshadows DOTA, and every other moba.
Like how PUBG became the most popular game in the world, because it was the first stand alone battle royal game, but it's because of it's lack of story and characters that it toppled the second something challenged it, being Fortnite. Fortnite has lore, it's trying to telling a story, and that's why it is winning. Well that and the titular Player Unknown is a big baby and gave up developing his game if he wasn't on top.
I refuse to attribute Fortnite's success to it's lore, of all things.
If anything, Fortnite's lore is even less known than League's was.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-03T13:45:36.921+0000)
#But Riot has literally stated they aren't going to do things that are generic.
It was in the article you sent me yourself.
No, that is not what they said.
They said they aren't satisfied with generic tropes. That does not mean they are going to avoid them all together, because like I have been saying, that is IMPOSSIBLE!
And all of these combined = "pops up out of nowhere"?
More or less. Timeless beings don't tend to reproduce, because the logistics of beings outside of time. If a yordle is born they would have existed throughout time, at least from the human perspective. So on Runeterra there would be a seemingly endless stream of yordles just pouring out of portals all over.
We don't see that so yordle reproduction must be governed by something else.
Besides, they are all tied to a job. What would a yordle couple do if they couldn't find a job for their kid?
That's bull.
X franchise has no influence on Y franchise unless both are confirmed to be within the same universe.
That's bull.
A franchise has influenced on those that took inspiration from it.
Saying everything must exist in a bubble and must be isolated from everything else is ludicrous.
But that doesn't mean everything that applies to X Undead also applies to Y Undead.
No, but that doesn't mean X undead don't apply to Y undead.
No, but as you've already said, words don't mean anything and everything is just up to the individual's interpretation.
Cute.
If anything, Fortnite's lore is even less known than League's was.
And yet more people know about the Fornite gnomes than even know what country PUBG takes place in.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesNo, that is not what they said.
They said they aren't satisfied with generic tropes. That does not mean they are going to avoid them all together, because like I have been saying, that is IMPOSSIBLE!
It's impossible to steer away from tropes altogether, yes, but it isn't impossible to steer away as much as possible from the generic ones and only focus on the "original" ones.
More or less. Timeless beings don't tend to reproduce, because the logistics of beings outside of time. If a yordle is born they would have existed throughout time, at least from the human perspective. So on Runeterra there would be a seemingly endless stream of yordles just pouring out of portals all over.
See, now you're generalizing again.
"Timeless beings don't tend to reproduce".
We don't see that so yordle reproduction must be governed by something else.
Reproduction through "normal" means can still be governed.
Besides, they are all tied to a job. What would a yordle couple do if they couldn't find a job for their kid?
There's almost always a job to be done somewhere, and if there isn't, they become those shells of their former selves you were talking about earlier.
That's bull.
A franchise has influenced on those that took inspiration from it.
Influenced perhaps in terms of visual design, but that doesn't mean it's a 1:1.
Saying everything must exist in a bubble and must be isolated from everything else is ludicrous.
Saying everything must be tied to everything and cannot be isolated from anything else sounds just as ludicrous.
No, but that doesn't mean X undead don't apply to Y undead.
What?
Cute.
It's not, it's unnecessary warping to fit a specific narrative.
And yet more people know about the Fornite gnomes than even know what country PUBG takes place in.
Those gnomes have nothing to do with the lore.
People know of them because it's a challenge to find them.
You're only proving my point, you know?
What country PUBG takes place in IS part of the lore, yet almost no one knows of it.
Meaning that the lore isn't the major appeal in this case.
If I had to attribute Fortnite's success to something, it would be the free-to-play model, cartoony graphics and the developers listening to their audience.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-04T13:03:23.125+0000)
It's impossible to steer away from tropes altogether, yes, but it isn't impossible to steer away as much as possible from the generic ones and only focus on the "original" ones.
So, because they said they aren't satisfied with generic tropes, they are always going to go with the tropes that are least used? Awfuly presumptuous of you.
Reproduction through "normal" means can still be governed.
I suppose, but that still doesn't prove how they reproduce.
Influenced perhaps in terms of visual design, but that doesn't mean it's a 1:1.
Who is saying they are?
Saying everything must be tied to everything and cannot be isolated from anything else sounds just as ludicrous.
Everything in reality has influenced everything else. We are quantumly influenced by actions at the other end of reality.
No story can be told without inspirations from stories that came before it.
What?
If you take a zombie from one fiction and another, there are plenty of things you can assume about one from the other, and majority will be accurate.
It's not, it's unnecessary warping to fit a specific narrative.
No it's not.
You are stretching a turn of phrase into a literal description of what happened.
Like in the Bible, the saying "40 days and 40 nights" was a common turn of phrase at the time meaning a long time, yet people have warped the turn of phrase into a literal description of what actually happened, in order to attribute miracles to something that wasn't miraculous.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesSo, because they said they aren't satisfied with generic tropes, they are always going to go with the tropes that are least used? Awfuly presumptuous of you.
What else is there to gather?
Why go out and say your stance is clear that you create your own lore and that you don't like generic tropes, if you're still going to do things that are generic and overused?
The statements and the actions would conflict with each other.
I suppose, but that still doesn't prove how they reproduce.
It doesn't, but it at least doesn't leave out the possibility that they reproduce through "normal" means.
Who is saying they are?
Well you're saying "Because they look like the Gremlins, that means they have the same reproductive cycle".
I know it's not 1:1 but you should get the point.
Everything in reality has influenced everything else. We are quantumly influenced by actions at the other end of reality.
No story can be told without inspirations from stories that came before it.
And I've already agreed that the Yordles are inspired from the Gremlins.
But that doesn't mean they share the same reproductive cycle.
If you take a zombie from one fiction and another, there are plenty of things you can assume about one from the other, and majority will be accurate.
I beg to differ.
No it's not.
You are stretching a turn of phrase into a literal description of what happened.
Like in the Bible, the saying "40 days and 40 nights" was a common turn of phrase at the time meaning a long time, yet people have warped the turn of phrase into a literal description of what actually happened, in order to attribute miracles to something that wasn't miraculous.
What kind of birth, other than a literal one, would require a midwife?
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-04T17:03:40.979+0000)
What else is there to gather?
Why go out and say your stance is clear that you create your own lore and that you don't like generic tropes, if you're still going to do things that are generic and overused?
The statements and the actions would conflict with each other.
You can create your own lore from generic tropes. Look at My Hero Academia, it's the tropiest anime ever, and it still has it's own lore.
Also, why would Riot limit themselves creatively by not being able to follow tropes?
It doesn't, but it at least doesn't leave out the possibility that they reproduce through "normal" means.
Well you're saying "Because they look like the Gremlins, that means they have the same reproductive cycle".
When did I say that yordles will absolutely reproduce by getting wet and spawning more yordles? Fizz is a fish.. how would that even work?
I know it's not 1:1 but you should get the point.
No, I have no idea what you are talking about.
And I've already agreed that the Yordles are inspired from the Gremlins.
But that doesn't mean they share the same reproductive cycle.
Of course they don't.
I beg to differ.
Okay, what differences are there between Walking Dead zombies and Dawn of the Dead zombies?
What kind of birth, other than a literal one, would require a midwife?
Farmers are midwives to chickens and plants.
If they deal with the delivery of an offspring, and/or help with it's development, they are a midwife.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesYou can create your own lore from generic tropes. Look at My Hero Academia, it's the tropiest anime ever, and it still has it's own lore.
Of course you can create your own lore from generic tropes, but Riot has literally stated that they are against them.
Also, why would Riot limit themselves creatively by not being able to follow tropes?
They are still able to follow tropes, just not the generic ones?
I'd say there's more creative limitations in being forced to choose generic tropes over unconventional ones.
When did I say that yordles will absolutely reproduce by getting wet and spawning more yordles? Fizz is a fish.. how would that even work?
No, I have no idea what you are talking about.
Of course they don't.
You only have theories if you yourself believe in them.
There's no reason to create a theory around Yordles reproducing through magic, if you yourself do not believe they do so.
Of course, you didn't say this is a 100% certainty, but it is what you believe to be true.
Otherwise, you wouldn't have mentioned and/or tried to defend it.
Okay, what differences are there between Walking Dead zombies and Dawn of the Dead zombies?
I do not know enough of either of these franchises to give you a concrete answer.
There are way more franchises out there than just these two and you probably just picked the ones with the most similarities.
Farmers are midwives to chickens and plants.
I'd say that's a stretch.
Farmers don't help the eggs develop (unless it's one of the rare cases where the chickens are somehow unable to care for them themselves) and plants aren't even animals to begin with.
If they deal with the delivery of an offspring, and/or help with it's development, they are a midwife.
That's not what the word "midwife" means.
midwife /ˈmɪdwʌɪf/
noun 1. a person, typically a woman, who is trained to assist women in childbirth.
verb 1. assist (a woman) during childbirth. "these women midwifed her"
(This was taken off of Google)
But okay, I'll humor you.
Say that midwife applies to everyone that helps offspring develop.
There can only be development into an adult stage if the offspring was previously at an adolescent stage.
Therefore, Yordle children should still be a thing.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=000000000001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-05T07:26:35.054+0000)
Of course you can create your own lore from generic tropes, but Riot has literally stated that they are against them.
They said they aren't satisfied with just generic tropes. That is why in champion's who've got a lore update, they are more than the generic tropes they were based on.
Lux is no longer all rainbows and sunshine, who was born with magic powers and became famous for them. Now she is a tortured soul, hiding the emotional scars with a smile.
While Lux on the outside is still a generic trope, her lore gives her more depth. That is what Riot means when they say they aren't satisfied with just generic tropes. They will still use them to define a character, but it won't be their entire persona.
They are still able to follow tropes, just not the generic ones?
I'd say there's more creative limitations in being forced to choose generic tropes over unconventional ones.
They are allowed to create whatever character they want.
I do not know enough of either of these franchises to give you a concrete answer.
There are way more franchises out there than just these two and you probably just picked the ones with the most similarities.
When it comes to zombies, most zombies function in the same way, and rarely do they break from the features of what came before them.
But okay, I'll humor you.
Say that midwife applies to everyone that helps offspring develop.
There can only be development into an adult stage if the offspring was previously at an adolescent stage.
Therefore, Yordle children should still be a thing.
Yes, yordle children are still a thing. Gnar is a yordle child, but Gnar could have been born from anything, a tree, the emotions of humans he was around, the need for a job to be filled, anything.
From what I can gather from his lore, it sounds like yeti might have actually been the midwives of yordles. It even said his kind, yordles, once lived openly with humans and the wise yeti of the Freljords. Gnar, even as a child, discovered his calling in life, being a hunter and gatherer.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=00000000000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000004,timestamp=2018-11-05T14:52:33.448+0000)
Which is you indirectly saying Yordle children do not exist.
And yet I mentioned how they would be born and them being smaller and growing.
Don't try and put words in my mouth. If I say what I said means there are yordle children, then I mean there are yordle children. Come on, you're better than using strawman tactics.
Ivern isn't the Godwillow.
What he wants to do/what he can do is not a factor of what the Godwillow was/can.
So just because he wants to be everywhere, that doesn't mean the Godwillow was, and just because he can make fruit, that doesn't mean the Godwillow could.
Except Ivern is the Godwillow. When he was being turned into the Godwillow he could hear all of the animals, all of the rivers, all of the plants, because he was everywhere, because he was still connected to the roots of the old Godwillow.
And even if they were factors of each other, Ivern wouldn't bear apples, he'd bear Yordles.
...and chickens bear chicks... which come from eggs. You crack open the egg soon enough and it's just an egg, you wait long enough and it becomes a chicken.
It's not a god just because it's called the Godwillow.
Anivia is a god Ornn is a god Volibear is a god
The Godwillow seems to hold more power than any of them.
Ivern's lore says:
"A mysterious new foe arose. Chimeric beings, half human, half animal, stalked the dwindling battalion, relentlessly cutting down the would-be conquerors."
These are Vastayans, not Vastayashai'rei.
And the yordles were born by then.
What? It isn't stated anywhere that Ivern can creat animals, only plants.
Where is it stated yordles are animals?
He has black eyes, massive bat-like ears, fangs, a tail, a special "Rage Gene" that allows him to turn into a big version of himself, and his title is "The Missing Link".
He is young, maybe those are features yordles grow out of.
The rage gene could have to do with yordles being tied to emotions. Gnar's emotion happens to be anger.
Also, Gnar's title and ability names were created before it was retconned that they were immortal spirits.
Sure, the Yordles are affected by the emotions around them, but that does not mean they are literally born from the emotions.
We don't know that they aren't.
The only leeway you have in your "turn of phrase" is because it mentions "Bolting".
And the fact that it is no longer canon.
If it didn't, it'd be confirmation enough.
Saying something written years ago by different people is "confirmation enough" is a really weak defense. As of right now, if a champion doesn't have lore written since the lore relaunch, they do not have any lore, and minor changes to exclude outdated subjects does not count.
And you're still attributing Garen's birth to a normal one, even if it's a "turn of phrase".
You are conciously choosing not to attribute Kennen's birth to a normal one.
Because yordles are not normal.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesAnd yet I mentioned how they would be born and them being smaller and growing.
Don't try and put words in my mouth. If I say what I said means there are yordle children, then I mean there are yordle children. Come on, you're better than using strawman tactics.
You didn't say anything about them being "smaller and growing", you said they would have no size difference since Yordles are already so small.
The fact that you're getting insecure and attacking me about it only makes me more suspicious.
Except Ivern is the Godwillow. When he was being turned into the Godwillow he could hear all of the animals, all of the rivers, all of the plants, because he was everywhere, because he was still connected to the roots of the old Godwillow.
He was never "turned into the Godwillow", he was turned into some sort of half-man half-tree.
He didn't hear ALL of everything.
He was never connected to the roots of the Godwillow.
...and chickens bear chicks... which come from eggs. You crack open the egg soon enough and it's just an egg, you wait long enough and it becomes a chicken.
So apples are Yordle fetuses now?
This is just getting more and more absurd.
Anivia is a god Ornn is a god Volibear is a god
They are demigods.
The Godwillow seems to hold more power than any of them.
No? Where is it stated that it holds more power than any of them?
And the yordles were born by then.
What? That has nothing to do with what I said.
I said the Vastayans were the ones who guarded the tree, and you said they weren't.
Where is it stated yordles are animals?
Where is it stated that they are plants?
They share more common functions with animals than they do with plants.
He is young, maybe those are features yordles grow out of.
You don't just "grow" out of all these things.
The rage gene could have to do with yordles being tied to emotions. Gnar's emotion happens to be anger.
So all Yordles can turn into Mega versions of themselves?
Also, Gnar's title and ability names were created before it was retconned that they were immortal spirits.
That's not an excuse, they had plenty of opportunity to change anything that was no longer canon if they wanted to when his bio got updated.
We don't know that they aren't.
There's nothing to support they are.
And the fact that it is no longer canon.
It is, until it is updated.
Saying something written years ago by different people is "confirmation enough" is a really weak defense. As of right now, if a champion doesn't have lore written since the lore relaunch, they do not have any lore, and minor changes to exclude outdated subjects does not count.
I'd say that's a matter of opinion, as Riot themselves, who are ultimately the defining factor in what is and isn't canon, hasn't said the things you're currently saying.
Because yordles are not normal.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=0000000000030000,timestamp=2018-11-05T16:21:12.699+0000)
You didn't say anything about them being "smaller and growing", you said they would have no size difference since Yordles are already so small.
The fact that you're getting insecure and attacking me about it only makes me more suspicious.
"The way I see it yordles are born when there is a job to be done that no one is doing. So they just kinda poof into existence? So their size probably wouldn't change much, since, you know, they are already so small."
I don't even know why I keep responding to you when you have resort to lying.
- He was never "turned into the Godwillow", he was turned into some sort of half-man half-tree.
Except that it does.
He wept, and dewdrop tears sprang up on the bark and leaves that now covered his newly tree-like body. Am I now becoming the God-Willow? he wondered.
- He didn't hear ALL of everything.
He hear a lot then.
- He was never connected to the roots of the Godwillow.
Then how was the God-Willow talking to him?
So apples are Yordle fetuses now?
This is just getting more and more absurd.
Eh, I've seen weirder.
What? That has nothing to do with what I said.
I said the Vastayans were the ones who guarded the tree, and you said they weren't.
I never said they weren't. I said that the Vastayans weren't around when the yordles were being "birthed."
Where is it stated that they are plants?
They share more common functions with animals than they do with plants.
They aren't. They are spirits.
Does Lamb and Wolf share functions of animals? Do Lamb and Wolf reproduce?
You don't just "grow" out of all these things.
Who not? Tadpoles grow out of gills and tails. Butterflies grow out of being worms.
So all Yordles can turn into Mega versions of themselves?
Probably not, because their forms are governed by different emotions, and their occupations don't call for that amount of brute strength.
That's not an excuse, they had plenty of opportunity to change anything that was no longer canon if they wanted to when his bio got updated.
Changing his lore is easy, changing in game elements are hard.
There's nothing to support they are.
Then we wait.
It is, until it is updated.
No, it's not.
I'd say that's a matter of opinion, as Riot themselves, who are ultimately the defining factor in what is and isn't canon, hasn't said the things you're currently saying.
Then we're both spitting in the wind aren't we? You'd rather accept a wrong answer than no answer at all and I don't know what the answer is. Such is the human condition I suppose. Some would rather sink with a rock of lies when they know high tide is coming than swim into unknown waters.
Warlord Rhinark1 votes"The way I see it yordles are born when there is a job to be done that no one is doing. So they just kinda poof into existence? So their size probably wouldn't change much, since, you know, they are already so small."
I don't even know why I keep responding to you when you have resort to lying.
How am I lying? This is what you said, and you said nothing about being "smaller and growing".
Except that it does.
"It" does what?
He hear a lot then.
A lot isn't everything, therefore the God-Willow didn't reach everywhere.
Then how was the God-Willow talking to him?
In the lore, it says that "He heard a voice deep inside him." It does not mention anything else.
I never said they weren't. I said that the Vastayans weren't around when the yordles were being "birthed."
If the "birth" of the Yordles was supposed to be a one-time occasion only, then Yordles cannot dynamically be born when a job needs to be done.
They aren't. They are spirits.
Spirits don't just grow on trees.
Does Lamb and Wolf share functions of animals? Do Lamb and Wolf reproduce?
Lamb and Wolf can't/doesn't need to:
Eat.
Be eaten.
Sleep.
Bleed.
Die.
Reproduce.
On the contrary, Yordles can do all of the above.
Who not? Tadpoles grow out of gills and tails. Butterflies grow out of being worms.
They aren't mammals.
I don't think there's any mammals that have this "growing" process.
Probably not, because their forms are governed by different emotions, and their occupations don't call for that amount of brute strength.
But Yordles' forms are governed by everyone elses' emotions, right?
But Gnar's is governed by his own rage.
Changing his lore is easy, changing in game elements are hard.
Changing single lines of text to say something else isn't.
Then we wait.
The logical option.
No, it's not.
Says none but you.
Then we're both spitting in the wind aren't we? You'd rather accept a wrong answer than no answer at all and I don't know what the answer is. Such is the human condition I suppose. Some would rather sink with a rock of lies when they know high tide is coming than swim into unknown waters.
The one thing I want to get out of these discussions is I want you to stop spreading misinformation.
You're allowed to have your theories, I can't govern what other people think or feel, I just don't want you to go around acting like they are all confirmed.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=000000000003000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-05T17:37:33.647+0000)
How am I lying? This is what you said, and you said nothing about being "smaller and growing".
I literally said their size changes.
"It" does what?
He clearly becomes the God-Willow. It talks to him, it connects him to the magic of life, Ivern says "am I becoming the God-Willow?"
A lot isn't everything, therefore the God-Willow didn't reach everywhere.
...So now you're calming you know that the God-Willow didn't have it's roots everywhere?
In the lore, it says that "He heard a voice deep inside him." It does not mention anything else.
That voice is the God-Willow
If the "birth" of the Yordles was supposed to be a one-time occasion only, then Yordles cannot dynamically be born when a job needs to be done.
It could explain why they have remained in Bandle City for so long and only started going out again recently. Ivern is the new God-Willow, so their ability to reproduce is back, meaning they can take more risks.
Spirits don't just grow on trees.
Why not? In many myths spirits do come out of fruit. Even the Japanese and Chinese goddess of fertility was born from a peach tree.
Can't see why emotion spirits can't come out of fruit when the goddess of love can.
Lamb and Wolf can't/doesn't need to:
Eat.
Be eaten.
Sleep.
Bleed.
Die.
Reproduce.
And so long as yordles are in Bandle City, they don't do these either.
On the contrary, Yordles can do all of the above.
Right.
They aren't mammals.
I don't think there's any mammals that have this "growing" process.
They aren't animals, they can grow however they like.
But Yordles' forms are governed by everyone elses' emotions, right?
But Gnar's is governed by his own rage.
Well yordles seem to have a primary "emotion" that is influenced and influences those around them. So yes, Gnar's anger is his emotion.
Changing single lines of text to say something else isn't.
Well you can just upload new lore.
To change Gnar you would have to unpack his code, change it, make sure it worked, then change it for every language, made sure they all work, then repack Gnar, then add it to the next patch, make sure it worked for every language. Then write patch notes in every language.
Says none but you.
Yeah sure, just me.
The one thing I want to get out of these discussions is I want you to stop spreading misinformation.
You're allowed to have your theories, I can't govern what other people think or feel, I just don't want you to go around acting like they are all confirmed.
Going around and saying what I think isn't going around and saying everyone but me is wrong. I like it when people poke holes in my theories, it means I can reevaluate the theory and reassure it still functions as a theory, and when I am faces with proper evidence, either my theory adapts or it is broken, it's that simple, and you haven't given me any proper evidence.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesI literally said their size changes.
"So their size probably wouldn't change much, since, you know, they are already so small."
That doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can tell.
He clearly becomes the God-Willow. It talks to him,
The Void talks to Malzahar but that doesn't mean he is the Void.
it connects him to the magic of life,
Soraka is connected to the magic of life but that doesn't mean she's the God-Willow.
Ivern says "am I becoming the God-Willow?"
The God-Willow was a massive, stationary tree, not a wandering tree person.
Asking the question "Am I becoming the God-Willow?" isn't the same as stating "I am becoming the God-Willow."
I thought you'd know considering how centered you are around the usage of certain words.
...So now you're calming you know that the God-Willow didn't have it's roots everywhere?
I'm claiming it isn't stated anywhere that it did.
That voice is the God-Willow
Am I disputing that it was?
All I'm saying is it isn't stated that he's connected to it's roots.
It could explain why they have remained in Bandle City for so long and only started going out again recently.
Who's stating that they only went out recently?
Yordles like Veigar have been around for several thousand years.
Ivern is the new God-Willow, so their ability to reproduce is back, meaning they can take more risks.
Why would their ability to reproduce be located outside of their own realm?
Why not? In many myths spirits do come out of fruit. Even the Japanese and Chinese goddess of fertility was born from a peach tree.
Can't see why emotion spirits can't come out of fruit when the goddess of love can.
This "goddess of love" doesn't exist within the context of the League of Legends universe.
And so long as yordles are in Bandle City, they don't do these either.
And?
They aren't animals, they can grow however they like.
Spirits don't "grow" as far as I know.
Well yordles seem to have a primary "emotion" that is influenced and influences those around them. So yes, Gnar's anger is his emotion.
But his own emotions influences his own apperance.
Wheras other Yordles only change their apperance based on other's emotions.
Well you can just upload new lore.
To change Gnar you would have to unpack his code, change it, make sure it worked, then change it for every language, made sure they all work, then repack Gnar, then add it to the next patch, make sure it worked for every language. Then write patch notes in every language.
Sounds harder than it is.
Yeah sure, just me.
You got anyone else saying the same thing?
Going around and saying what I think isn't going around and saying everyone but me is wrong.
That "Religions of Runeterra" post you made sure didn't seem like a question or theory and rather just a statement.
I even recall you said "Hey, it's ok. You can be wrong together." to me when I challenged something you said.
I like it when people poke holes in my theories, it means I can reevaluate the theory and reassure it still functions as a theory,
Then why do you deliberately just ignore portions of what I say?
and when I am faces with proper evidence, either my theory adapts or it is broken, it's that simple, and you haven't given me any proper evidence.
What counts as "proper evidence" to you?
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=00000000000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T10:17:17.770+0000)
"So their size probably wouldn't change much, since, you know, they are already so small."
That doesn't seem to be the case as far as I can tell.
"Not changing much" doesn't mean not changing at all.
The Void talks to Malzahar but that doesn't mean he is the Void.
That is a bad example, because he does kind of become the Void. The Void is not a single entity, it's a hive mind, all those touched by the Void are the Void.
Soraka is connected to the magic of life but that doesn't mean she's the God-Willow.
But her soul wasn't literally absorbed into the God-Willow.
The God-Willow was a massive, stationary tree, not a wandering tree person.
Ivern was a massive stationary tree for a century. It wasn't until the previous God-Willow told him to "grow" that he uprooted himself and changed into a tree person.
Asking the question "Am I becoming the God-Willow?" isn't the same as stating "I am becoming the God-Willow."
I thought you'd know considering how centered you are around the usage of certain words.
I suppose you're right, and I suppose Ivern is a different God-Willow, so he wouldn't be THE God-Willow but that doesn't mean he isn't A God-Willow.
I'm claiming it isn't stated anywhere that it did.
...Well, it isn't stated anywhere outside of Ivern himself saying it is.
Am I disputing that it was?
All I'm saying is it isn't stated that he's connected to it's roots.
Well not anymore.
Who's stating that they only went out recently?
Yordles like Veigar have been around for several thousand years.
Yeah, yordles used to intermingle with humans all of the time, Gnar lived with them, Veigar learned from them, and that was back when the God-Willow was still alive and before the Void started tearing rifts all across Runeterra.
But now yordles are myths. Some yordles not even knowing the human world, or at least not remembering. Tristana only just started traveling Runeterra looking for action, Poppy was only just tasked with delivering the hammer, Heimerdinger and Ziggs only just opened their shop in Piltover.... Well, at least Ziggs just joined Heimerdinger, Heimi seems like he's been around the block a few times.
Why would their ability to reproduce be located outside of their own realm?
Maybe that isn't their own realm. Maybe Bandle City was someone else's realm they live in, or maybe Bandle City was made for them.
Spirits don't "grow" as far as I know.
It may take much longer, but I don't see why they can't.
But his own emotions influences his own apperance.
Wheras other Yordles only change their apperance based on other's emotions.
Gnar first transformed during a war. I think emotions were pretty high.
You got anyone else saying the same thing?
I don't know, I haven't put up a poll, and even then, only like 1% of the player base actually visit these boards.
That "Religions of Runeterra" post you made sure didn't seem like a question or theory and rather just a statement.
I even recall you said "Hey, it's ok. You can be wrong together." to me when I challenged something you said.
No one gave me a reason as to why some religions aren't actually religions without providing any in lore details. They just said stuff like, "well Elise is the only one worshiping the spider, so that doesn't count" or "Targon is just a mountain, no one worships a mountain."
Then why do you deliberately just ignore portions of what I say?
I'm not. If I don't respond to a point you made, it either means I will just keep repeating myself, and/or there is nothing else to add, and I have changed my theories based on your feedback, but you haven't given me any evidence to straight up drop a theory, and when I told you this before you just say it sounds like I am stretching the truth for it to fit my theories, and I say it still fits, and then you disagree and we start over.
What counts as "proper evidence" to you?
Something from the lore, something not from the previous lore.
Not liking that Darkin could be corrupted by the Void is not evidence to say they aren't corrupted by the Void. Not liking the idea Kayle and Morgana are at least related to the Darkin, doesn't mean they aren't related to the Darkin. Just because you don't like the idea of Yordles being spirits doesn't mean they aren't spirits.
Warlord Rhinark1 votes"Not changing much" doesn't mean not changing at all.
I sure interpreted it as such.
That is a bad example, because he does kind of become the Void. The Void is not a single entity, it's a hive mind, all those touched by the Void are the Void.
The Void is controlled by the Watchers. The Watchers are single entities.
If the Watchers spoke to Malzahar that doesn't mean he is a Watcher.
But her soul wasn't literally absorbed into the God-Willow.
Neither was Ivern's?
Ivern was a massive stationary tree for a century.
He wasn't really a fully fledged tree, he just stood still.
It wasn't until the previous God-Willow told him to "grow" that he uprooted himself and changed into a tree person.
Why didn't the God-Willow change into a tree person and walk around as Ivern does then?
I suppose you're right, and I suppose Ivern is a different God-Willow, so he wouldn't be THE God-Willow but that doesn't mean he isn't A God-Willow.
There must be a reason why the God-Willow is referred to as "the God-Willow", and why it is the only one of it's kind we've stumbled upon.
...Well, it isn't stated anywhere outside of Ivern himself saying it is.
He didn't say the God-Willow reached everywhere, he only said that he himself will one day be everywhere.
Well not anymore.
He wasn't to begin with either.
Yeah, yordles used to intermingle with humans all of the time, Gnar lived with them, Veigar learned from them, and that was back when the God-Willow was still alive and before the Void started tearing rifts all across Runeterra.
But now yordles are myths. Some yordles not even knowing the human world, or at least not remembering. Tristana only just started traveling Runeterra looking for action, Poppy was only just tasked with delivering the hammer, Heimerdinger and Ziggs only just opened their shop in Piltover.... Well, at least Ziggs just joined Heimerdinger, Heimi seems like he's been around the block a few times.
Poppy wasn't only just tasked with delivering the hammer, she's been following Orlon around since before Demacia's founding, which is all the way back during the Rune Wars.
Also, I think we're forgetting Kled for a second here, who's been in every single one of Noxus' campaigns.
Maybe that isn't their own realm. Maybe Bandle City was someone else's realm they live in, or maybe Bandle City was made for them.
That seems like assumptions.
It may take much longer, but I don't see why they can't.
Perhaps because there's nothing pointing towards it?
Gnar first transformed during a war. I think emotions were pretty high.
Gnar has been able to transform since then.
I don't know, I haven't put up a poll, and even then, only like 1% of the player base actually visit these boards.
If you don't know, then you can't really claim you aren't the only person that believes this.
No one gave me a reason as to why some religions aren't actually religions without providing any in lore details. They just said stuff like, "well Elise is the only one worshiping the spider, so that doesn't count" or "Targon is just a mountain, no one worships a mountain."
So you're saying you like when people prove you wrong, but you don't actually allow anyone to prove you wrong, based on what you consider "proper evidence" and not what others consider?
That sounds exactly like a "everyone but me is wrong" situation.
I'm not. If I don't respond to a point you made, it either means I will just keep repeating myself, and/or there is nothing else to add, and I have changed my theories based on your feedback, but you haven't given me any evidence to straight up drop a theory, and when I told you this before you just say it sounds like I am stretching the truth for it to fit my theories, and I say it still fits, and then you disagree and we start over.
I'd rather have you say "I don't have anymore to add", rather than just saying nothing at all.
I interpret someone saying nothing at all as disrespectful.
Something from the lore, something not from the previous lore.
There is nothing, neither from the old nor the current lore, that says Yordles grow on trees.
Therefore, it isn't "proper evidence", according to your definition, of course.
Not liking that Darkin could be corrupted by the Void is not evidence to say they aren't corrupted by the Void. Not liking the idea Kayle and Morgana are at least related to the Darkin, doesn't mean they aren't related to the Darkin.
This doesn't have anything to do with liking or disliking something.
It has to do with if there's actual evidence in the lore that suggests it.
There's nothing in the lore that says Darkin are corrupted by the Void, and there's nothing in the lore that says they aren't.
There's nothing in the lore that says Kayle/Morgana are related to the Darkin, and there's nothing in the lore that says they aren't.
The two major viewpoints when it comes to what is and what isn't can roughly be boiled down to:
Everything is true until disproven.
Everything is false until proven.
I fall under the 2nd. From what I can tell, you fall under the 1st.
You say things like "Yordles grow on trees", not because it is supported by anything, but because it cannot be proven that they don't.
In my personal opinion, you shouldn't make a theory because you want others to find something in the lore that conflicts with it, you should make a theory because there's actual evidence in the lore to support it.
Just because you don't like the idea of Yordles being spirits doesn't mean they aren't spirits.
I haven't been saying they aren't spirits?
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=0000000000030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T12:01:25.760+0000)
Why didn't the God-Willow change into a tree person and walk around as Ivern does then?
I don't know the motives of a tree, all it wanted to do was grow, and for Ivern, that meant go out into the world and help it grow.
There must be a reason why the God-Willow is referred to as "the God-Willow", and why it is the only one of it's kind we've stumbled upon.
And Ivern is still the God-Willow.
He didn't say the God-Willow reached everywhere, he only said that he himself will one day be everywhere.
And that means the previous God-Will wasn't everywhere?
He wasn't to begin with either.
Got any evidence to back that up? That seems like an assumption.
Poppy wasn't only just tasked with delivering the hammer, she's been following Orlon around since before Demacia's founding, which is all the way back during the Rune Wars.
And you are right.
Also, I think we're forgetting Kled for a second here, who's been in every single one of Noxus' campaigns.
I didn't say every yordle just started adventuring out, I mreant more yordles are starting to venture out. Heimi, Kled and Poppy were out and about.
That seems like assumptions.
All we can do right now is assume, either that or just not contemplate on the lore at all, but that would be boring.
Perhaps because there's nothing pointing towards it?
Well, except Gnar still being a child.
Gnar has been able to transform since then.
Well yeah, Poppy didn't lose her strength after Orlon died and his unbridled optimism and strength stopped directly influencing her. A piece of him permanently rubbed off on her... there could have been a way to phrase that.
So Gnar still has the anger the armies felt inside him.
If you don't know, then you can't really claim you aren't the only person that believes this.
And from everything I see on the boards, only like 3 people believe Kayle and Morgana can't possibly be wielding Darkin. The boards are not a good environment for establishing a consensuses. Unless you say something like Mordekieser needs a rework.
So you're saying you like when people prove you wrong, but you don't actually allow anyone to prove you wrong, based on what you consider "proper evidence" and not what others consider?
That sounds exactly like a "everyone but me is wrong" situation.
I said I like when people challenge my theories, but the opinions of others are not proper evidence. Like I said, just because someone believes that Elise's religion isn't a religion because she is the only one practicing it doesn't mean it isn't a religion.
The truth is not built on consensus.
I'd rather have you say "I don't have anymore to add", rather than just saying nothing at all.
I interpret someone saying nothing at all as disrespectful.
We are conversing on poorly optimized boards. We gotta cut corners to keep this conversation contained to one reply at a time.
There is nothing, neither from the old nor the current lore, that says Yordles grow on trees.
And I never said they did grow on trees. I said I don't know where yordles come from, they could just pop out of no where from emotions, or are made by magic, or are grown like plants. Then you said spirits can't grow like plants. Then I said of course they can. Then you asked how would that even work. Then I explained how it could work.
Therefore, it isn't "proper evidence", according to your definition, of course.
It isn't proper evidence, and there is nothing backing it up, which is why I am not saying they do.
It has to do with if there's actual evidence in the lore that suggests it.
There's nothing in the lore that says Darkin are corrupted by the Void, and there's nothing in the lore that says they aren't.
Aatrox straight up calls out that he is is probably corrupted by the Void, and the Void is his destiny. Then there is the fact that the only thing separating Ascended and Darkin is their involvement in the war with the Void.
There's nothing in the lore that says Kayle/Morgana are related to the Darkin, and there's nothing in the lore that says they aren't.
Except for the absence of the Demacian Darkin. The similarities between Valeeva's motives and Kayle's. The fact they both have feathers... unless Valeeva's spines are not the spines of feathers, but her being some kind of porcupine Darkin... which would be weird, and out of place with the Egyptian theming all Ascended share... The fact the Darkin are wielding the same weapons/tools as the Biblical Horsemen of the Apocalypse, and Kayle being the Scales of Justice fits with her archetype and theme... etc. etc. etc.
In my personal opinion, you shouldn't make a theory because you want others to find something in the lore that conflicts with it, you should make a theory because there's actual evidence in the lore to support it.
And I do.
I haven't been saying they aren't spirits?
You've been saying they are animals, then when I say animals can change, you call them mammals.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesI don't know the motives of a tree, all it wanted to do was grow, and for Ivern, that meant go out into the world and help it grow.
How do you know the tree itself wanted to grow, and not that it wanted Ivern/the world in general to "grow"?
And Ivern is still the God-Willow.
I beg to differ.
And that means the previous God-Will wasn't everywhere?
It isn't stated anywhere that it was.
Refer back to the two major viewpoints I was talking about.
Got any evidence to back that up? That seems like an assumption.
I do not have any evidence that he wasn't, but I can't find any evidence to support he was.
It isn't stated anywhere that he was.
Again, refer back to the two major viewpoints I was talking about.
I didn't say every yordle just started adventuring out, I mreant more yordles are starting to venture out. Heimi, Kled and Poppy were out and about.
I'd hazard a guess and say Ivern cutting down the God-Willow happened after the founding of Demacia/Noxus.
All we can do right now is assume, either that or just not contemplate on the lore at all, but that would be boring.
Boring is subjective.
Besides, I'd rather be "boring" than state something wrong.
Well, except Gnar still being a child.
I don't think just because Gnar is a child and he looks different than "adult" Yordles, that that means all "adult" Yordles looked like him at some point.
All of this is confusing. How does an ageless spirit even age to begin with?
Well yeah, Poppy didn't lose her strength after Orlon died and his unbridled optimism and strength stopped directly influencing her. A piece of him permanently rubbed off on her... there could have been a way to phrase that.
So Gnar still has the anger the armies felt inside him.
Except in the lore it says:
"But the blow never landed. Gnar felt a chill colder than any winter, one that seemed to turn the air itself into ice—truly, this elemental magic froze him in place, biting through his shaggy fur. Everything, including the monster, became quiet. The yordle’s strength and anger melted away. A deep tiredness crept into his limbs, and he fell softly asleep."
Why would his anger "melt away", if it's still inside of him?
Besides, even if it was still inside of him, wouldn't Gnar go around being angry all the time?
And from everything I see on the boards, only like 3 people believe Kayle and Morgana can't possibly be wielding Darkin. The boards are not a good environment for establishing a consensuses. Unless you say something like Mordekieser needs a rework.
There might only be 3 people (so far) saying Kayle/Morgana aren't wielding Darkin, but there's only 1 (so far) that says they are.
I said I like when people challenge my theories, but the opinions of others are not proper evidence. Like I said, just because someone believes that Elise's religion isn't a religion because she is the only one practicing it doesn't mean it isn't a religion.
You can't tell me that that was the only argument people came up with.
The truth is not built on consensus.
"The truth" is not built on assumptions either.
And I never said they did grow on trees. I said I don't know where yordles come from, they could just pop out of no where from emotions, or are made by magic, or are grown like plants. Then you said spirits can't grow like plants. Then I said of course they can. Then you asked how would that even work. Then I explained how it could work.
Sure, you explained how it could work in theory, but not that it does work in practice.
It isn't proper evidence, and there is nothing backing it up, which is why I am not saying they do.
Fair.
Aatrox straight up calls out that he is is probably corrupted by the Void,
He says he cannot know if he is.
and the Void is his destiny.
He questions IF their form is his destiny.
Then there is the fact that the only thing separating Ascended and Darkin is their involvement in the war with the Void.
And the fact that the Darkin were the only ones that were slavemasters.
But is it stated anywhere that they 100% are corrupted by the Void?
No.
Except for the absence of the Demacian Darkin.
There is no Demacian Darkin, until proven otherwise.
The similarities between Valeeva's motives and Kayle's.
Lucian and Vayne share similar motives as well.
The fact they both have feathers... unless Valeeva's spines are not the spines of feathers, but her being some kind of porcupine Darkin...
Which is entirely possible.
which would be weird,
Mighty rich of you to call out things that are "weird".
and out of place with the Egyptian theming all Ascended share...
One of the Ascended was a panther, a tiger, a turtle, a wolf, and two of them ravens,
None of these animals are very well known in Egyptian mythology.
The fact the Darkin are wielding the same weapons/tools as the Biblical Horsemen of the Apocalypse,
We do not know.
and Kayle being the Scales of Justice fits with her archetype and theme... etc. etc. etc.
But is it stated anywhere that they 100% are related to the Darkin?
No.
And I do.
I beg to differ.
You've been saying they are animals, then when I say animals can change, you call them mammals.
I've been saying they share a lot of similarities with animals (and mammals by extension), but I do not think I ever called them animals.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=000000000003000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T14:49:26.336+0000)
How do you know the tree itself wanted to grow, and not that it wanted Ivern/the world in general to "grow"?
That's the vague nature of things isn't it.
I beg to differ.
Then we agree to disagree.
I'd hazard a guess and say Ivern cutting down the God-Willow happened after the founding of Demacia/Noxus.
Well, let's see. Ivern left the Freljords because the Iceborn were being obnoxious, so it's likely he was from before the fall of the Watchers and the Vastaya were new, meaning it must have been just after the Darkin War. Therefore Ivern the Terrible died before the events of the Howling Abyss, placing it before the Rune War, and the founding of Demacia or Noxus.
Meaning if the yordles did have more emphasis to explore thanks to the God-Willow existing, Poppy could have been out searching for a purpose before the God-Willow was uprooted, creating Ivern the Green Father, then she ran into refugees of the Rune War when it first kicked off. It would also be around the same time Kled drafted himself into the Noxii army and Veigar was captured by Mordekiser.
It's hard to say exactly when everything takes place though. We need an official timeline.
I don't think just because Gnar is a child and he looks different than "adult" Yordles, that that means all "adult" Yordles looked like him at some point.
It's not impossible.
All of this is confusing. How does an ageless spirit even age to begin with?
Well we don't know how yordles come into this world. It could be they existed as pure spirits since the creation of the universe, and then given form later. Then their form changes as it experiences new things, growing less wild and childish.
Why would his anger "melt away", if it's still inside of him?
Besides, even if it was still inside of him, wouldn't Gnar go around being angry all the time?
Well Gnar isn't always angry, just like how Ziggs isn't always destroying things, or Fizz isn't always playing pranks.
There might only be 3 people (so far) saying Kayle/Morgana aren't wielding Darkin, but there's only 1 (so far) that says they are.
There's always people on the boards asking if Morgana is a Darkin. Also, rereading Twilight of the Gods, Valeeva is described looking exactly like Morgana. Pale white skin, and glowing purple veins, and feathers.
Aatrox and Rhaast are brother and they are both red and black. Maybe Varus and Valeeva being "siblings" means they share the same color scheme, meaning pale and purple, just like Morgana.
You can't tell me that that was the only argument people came up with.
Well they also said the religion could be a ruse, but that doesn't hold much water when Elise is pretty obsessed with the spider.
And the fact that the Darkin were the only ones that were slavemasters.
But is it stated anywhere that they 100% are corrupted by the Void?
No.
Are you saying Xarath doesn't own slaves? He certainly seems like the type.
There is no Demacian Darkin, until proven otherwise.
There's a Noxian Darkin, an Ionian Darkin, a Freljordian Darkin, it would make sense for there to be a Demacian Darkin.
Lucian and Vayne share similar motives as well.
Yeah, but their visuals opposite each other. Lucian is a white clad priest of his religious order, and Vayne is a vigilante draped in black.
Kayle, Valeeva, and Morgana all being winged females tied to Demacia who are all about Justice, revenge and retribution, with Kayle being white and gold and Morgana and Valeeva both being pale and purple, and them all having wings, seems a bit much if you ask me.
One of the Ascended was a panther, a tiger, a turtle, a wolf, and two of them ravens,
None of these animals are very well known in Egyptian mythology.
All cats were divine in Egypt.
Turtles were creatures of the underworld that served Set and opposed Ra.
The god of war in Egypt was a wolf.
A lot of gods in Egypt were birds, but the twin ravens were more inspired by Odin's all seeing ravens, than anything explicitly Egyptian.
But is it stated anywhere that they 100% are related to the Darkin?
No.
And that is why we speculate my friend.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesThat's the vague nature of things isn't it.
If you say so.
Then we agree to disagree.
I can agree.
Well, let's see. Ivern left the Freljords because the Iceborn were being obnoxious, so it's likely he was from before the fall of the Watchers and the Vastaya were new, meaning it must have been just after the Darkin War. Therefore Ivern the Terrible died before the events of the Howling Abyss, placing it before the Rune War, and the founding of Demacia or Noxus.
Meaning if the yordles did have more emphasis to explore thanks to the God-Willow existing, Poppy could have been out searching for a purpose before the God-Willow was uprooted, creating Ivern the Green Father, then she ran into refugees of the Rune War when it first kicked off. It would also be around the same time Kled drafted himself into the Noxii army and Veigar was captured by Mordekiser.
It's hard to say exactly when everything takes place though. We need an official timeline.
I don't know, it seems weird that Poppy/Kled/Veigar would, not only just instinctively know that the God-Willow is back, but also give up their original directive of finding it and completely forget about it as well.
It's not impossible.
Depends on viewpoint.
Well we don't know how yordles come into this world. It could be they existed as pure spirits since the creation of the universe, and then given form later. Then their form changes as it experiences new things, growing less wild and childish.
That sounds weird.
Evelynn is/was what you're describing here, but she doesn't seem to have changed much over the years.
Well Gnar isn't always angry, just like how Ziggs isn't always destroying things, or Fizz isn't always playing pranks.
But Ziggs wants to destroy things all the time, and Fizz wants to play pranks all the time, even if they aren't actively doing it.
I don't think Gnar wants to be angry all the time.
There's always people on the boards asking if Morgana is a Darkin. Also, rereading Twilight of the Gods, Valeeva is described looking exactly like Morgana. Pale white skin, and glowing purple veins, and feathers.
Aatrox and Rhaast are brother and they are both red and black. Maybe Varus and Valeeva being "siblings" means they share the same color scheme, meaning pale and purple, just like Morgana.
Except Reav3 has already stated they aren't going to be neither Ascended nor Darkin.
Well they also said the religion could be a ruse, but that doesn't hold much water when Elise is pretty obsessed with the spider.
Any schmuck can make up their own religion(s) as they please.
Even if the argument against Elise's "religion" wasn't that valid, that doesn't mean the arguments against the other religions weren't.
Are you saying Xarath doesn't own slaves? He certainly seems like the type.
I meant during the events of The Great Darkin War.
There's a Noxian Darkin, an Ionian Darkin, a Freljordian Darkin, it would make sense for there to be a Demacian Darkin.
It would "make sense" based on what?
Yeah, but their visuals opposite each other. Lucian is a white clad priest of his religious order, and Vayne is a vigilante draped in black.
Kayle, Valeeva, and Morgana all being winged females tied to Demacia
You can't just say Valeeva is tied to Demacia without knowing.
This is the kind of misinformation spreading I'm talking about.
who are all about Justice, revenge and retribution,
And
with Kayle being white and gold and Morgana and Valeeva both being pale and purple,
Only Morgana's and Valeeva's color schemes correlate.
and them all having wings,
Vastaya can have wings too.
seems a bit much if you ask me.
The truth is not built on parallels.
All cats were divine in Egypt.
Mostly lions though, right?
Turtles were creatures of the underworld that served Set and opposed Ra.
I do not know, I took it from this http://www.sparelives.org/index.pl/animals_in_ancient_egypt and turtles were not mentioned anywhere.
The god of war in Egypt was a wolf.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montu says it's a falcon.
A lot of gods in Egypt were birds, but the twin ravens were more inspired by Odin's all seeing ravens, than anything explicitly Egyptian.
Therefore, a porcupine is still plausible.
And that is why we speculate my friend.
The truth is not built on speculation.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesOf course.
You can call me wrong, accuse me of being a liar, and just completely ignore points if you can't find a counterargument, but I give you any kind of criticism, you just up and leave.
Such is the human condition, I suppose.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=000000000003000000000001,timestamp=2018-11-07T07:37:05.129+0000)
Of course.
You can call me wrong, accuse me of being a liar, and just completely ignore points if you can't find a counterargument, but I give you any kind of criticism, you just up and leave.
Such is the human condition, I suppose.
It's been at most 2 days, cool your jets there Jay Jay.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesIt's been at most 2 days, cool your jets there Jay Jay.
Don't act like there's anything keeping you from responding.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=00000000000300000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T09:38:31.451+0000)
Don't act like there's anything keeping you from responding.
Contempt, boredom, exhaustion, my internet going out, me taking a vacation, me just not being at a computer, laziness, anything else occupying my time.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=00000000000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T16:53:50.995+0000)
I don't know, it seems weird that Poppy/Kled/Veigar would, not only just instinctively know that the God-Willow is back, but also give up their original directive of finding it and completely forget about it as well.
Poppy never had one, and left to find her calling. Even if she was connected to the God-Willow when it died, she probably didn't know why she started feeling sad. Poppy may not be the brightest knife in the crayon box.
Kled... Kled is special.
Veigar was a scholar. When the Darkin fell he followed around the humans in order to learn the magic the Darkin had. That is when he came across Mordekiser. Veigar was cut off from all magic and sealed in the Immortal Bastion.
Depends on viewpoint.
The possibility of something does not change on a viewpoint. Either something is possible, or impossible.
That sounds weird.
Evelynn is/was what you're describing here, but she doesn't seem to have changed much over the years.
Perhaps Yordles are the opposite of demons. Like mater and anti-mater.
But Ziggs wants to destroy things all the time, and Fizz wants to play pranks all the time, even if they aren't actively doing it.
I don't think Gnar wants to be angry all the time.
Though barely big enough to leave footprints in the snow, his temper rivaled that of beasts ten times his size, and he would erupt with a babble of curses the moment anything went amiss.
No, he seems like he wants to be angry all the time.
Except Reav3 has already stated they aren't going to be neither Ascended nor Darkin.
Well obviously. Kayle wouldn't be a Shuriman Ascended, her Ascension would come the same way Kayn's does, by mastering a weapon with an Ascended sealed within it. And Morgana wouldn't be a Darkin, as she isn't a corrupted Ascended, and she wouldn't be wielding a Darkin, because she doesn't have a weapon, but that doesn't mean the corruption from a Darkin isn't bound to her directly.
It lines up with what Aatrox says about them. Kayle cheats her way to mastering what should be a Darkin weapon, and Morgana binds herself.
Any schmuck can make up their own religion(s) as they please.
Even if the argument against Elise's "religion" wasn't that valid, that doesn't mean the arguments against the other religions weren't.
What do you mean?
I meant during the events of The Great Darkin War.
Just because he wasn't free during the Darkin War doesn't mean he can't become a new Darkin. The only thing that makes a Darkin is being Ascended and then being corrupted by something.
It would "make sense" based on what?
That all of the Darkin being sealed in different location.
Also, with my idea on Valeeva taking Naganeka's chain weapon to create the scales does make sense with the natural resources of Demacia and their symbology.
If Naganeka is the source of Cassiopeia's transformation, then Naganeka has the same petrifying scream Cass has, and what is Demacia known for? Petricite! An anti-magic material harvested from petrified trees. Maybe the battle that lead Naganeka and Valeeva to fight in what would be Demacia, Naganeka unleashed a scream turning an entire forest into petricite, sacrificing herself to try and save Valeeva. Then Valeeva, fueled with revenge, fought with her winged sword and Naganeka's chain until she was finally sealed away beneath the petrified forest. Then however many years later when Poppy seemingly vanished with Orlon's hammer, the new symbol of Demacia was the winged sword found beneath the city.
Sorry, I was struck with inspiration there for a sec...
You can't just say Valeeva is tied to Demacia without knowing.
This is the kind of misinformation spreading I'm talking about.
So what, they would make the Darkin Varus is searching for, who he couldn't find in Shurima, be a zombified Darkin from the Shadow Isles?
There aren't many placed Valeeva could be tied to. She is either connected to Demacia, or the Blessed Isles.
Only Morgana's and Valeeva's color schemes correlate.
Need I remind you she was once an Ascended. Her colors could have changed with her corruption.
Vastaya can have wings too.
The likelihood of Kayle and Morgana being Vastyan Aspects in Demacia seems... farfetched.
Mostly lions though, right?
...Yes, house lions were commonplace in Egypt... Lions, the large cats of Central and South Africa... in Egypt.
I do not know, I took it from this http://www.sparelives.org/index.pl/animals_in_ancient_egypt and turtles were not mentioned anywhere.
Here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_turtles#Ancient_Egypt
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montu says it's a falcon.
All of the gods were falcons. That is why they were more inspired by Odin's ravens, just so they wouldn't be girl versions of Azir.
Therefore, a porcupine is still plausible.
... I mean... I guess.... But she is, without a shadow of a doubt, going to be a bird. Actually, all things considered, a Sphinx would make the most sense.
Face of a woman, body of a lion, wings of an eagle, tail of a snake. It would explain why only her shoulders had spines, and how else would her veins be visible? All of the other Ascended were covered in scales, fur, or feathers.
The truth is not built on speculation.
True, but speculation is fun.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesPoppy never had one, and left to find her calling. Even if she was connected to the God-Willow when it died, she probably didn't know why she started feeling sad. Poppy may not be the brightest knife in the crayon box.
Kled... Kled is special.
Veigar was a scholar. When the Darkin fell he followed around the humans in order to learn the magic the Darkin had. That is when he came across Mordekiser. Veigar was cut off from all magic and sealed in the Immortal Bastion.
None of this has anything to do with the God-Willow.
The possibility of something does not change on a viewpoint. Either something is possible, or impossible.
Deciding whether or not something is possible/impossible without concrete evidence at hand to confirm either certainly depends on viewpoint.
Perhaps Yordles are the opposite of demons. Like mater and anti-mater.
I don't know. There's pointing towards this being the case.
Though barely big enough to leave footprints in the snow, his temper rivaled that of beasts ten times his size, and he would erupt with a babble of curses the moment anything went amiss.
No, he seems like he wants to be angry all the time.
I don't think it's a "wants to" situation.
Well obviously. Kayle wouldn't be a Shuriman Ascended, her Ascension would come the same way Kayn's does, by mastering a weapon with an Ascended sealed within it. And Morgana wouldn't be a Darkin, as she isn't a corrupted Ascended, and she wouldn't be wielding a Darkin, because she doesn't have a weapon, but that doesn't mean the corruption from a Darkin isn't bound to her directly.
It lines up with what Aatrox says about them. Kayle cheats her way to mastering what should be a Darkin weapon, and Morgana binds herself.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. This sounds more like trying to find a loophole around the statement, rather than just accepting what the statement was to begin with.
What do you mean?
Perhaps what they meant was something isn't a religion until more than one person believes in it.
Even if the arguments against Elise's religion weren't the best, that doesn't mean the arguments against the other religions weren't.
Just because he wasn't free during the Darkin War doesn't mean he can't become a new Darkin. The only thing that makes a Darkin is being Ascended and then being corrupted by something.
Is the definition of a Darkin mentioned anywhere?
No.
Can you therefore say that this is what separates an Ascended from a Darkin?
No.
That all of the Darkin being sealed in different location.
There are more locations than Demacia and the Shadow Isles.
Also, with my idea on Valeeva taking Naganeka's chain weapon to create the scales does make sense with the natural resources of Demacia and their symbology.
It does not make sense that Darkin weapons can just be combined all of a sudden.
What reason could she possibly have for making a scale anyway? How is a scale a more effective weapon than the sword she was already wielding, if Valeeva's weapon being a sword is to be believed?
If Naganeka is the source of Cassiopeia's transformation,
Which she is not confirmed to be.
then Naganeka has the same petrifying scream Cass has,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_composition
and what is Demacia known for? Petricite! An anti-magic material harvested from petrified trees. Maybe the battle that lead Naganeka and Valeeva to fight in what would be Demacia, Naganeka unleashed a scream turning an entire forest into petricite, sacrificing herself to try and save Valeeva.
What?
Why would they be fighting and then suddenly one of them would sacrifice themself to save the other?
Then Valeeva, fueled with revenge, fought with her winged sword until she was finally sealed away beneath the petrified forest.
Wait what?
Fueled with revenge because she was saved?
Fought with her own sword?
She somehow sealed herself?
How does this make any sense?
Then hundreds of years later when Poppy seemingly vanished with Orlon's hammer,
Poppy didn't disappear?
the new symbol of Demacia was the winged sword found beneath the city.
There's no "winged sword" underneath Demacia.
Sorry, I was struck with inspiration there for a sec...
Sounded more like mad talk than inspiration, but I digress.
So what, they would make the Darkin Varus is searching for, who he couldn't find in Shurima, be a zombified Darkin from the Shadow Isles?
There aren't many placed Valeeva could be tied to. She is either connected to Demacia, or the Blessed Isles.
Varus isn't done searching through all of Shurima.
He literally only searched one tomb. That's it.
He's still got an entire continent left.
Besides, Demacia and the Shadow Isles are not the only places left in the world.
Need I remind you she was once an Ascended. Her colors could have changed with her corruption.
We do not even know how she looked before.
The likelihood of Kayle and Morgana being Vastyan Aspects in Demacia seems... farfetched.
Just like Kayle and Morgana somehow splitting a Darkin is.
...Yes, house lions were commonplace in Egypt... Lions, the large cats of Central and South Africa... in Egypt.
Could you fit another ellipsis in there?
Here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_depictions_of_turtles#Ancient_Egypt
Thanks? I guess?
All of the gods were falcons. That is why they were more inspired by Odin's ravens, just so they wouldn't be girl versions of Azir.
All of the gods weren't falcons?
... I mean... I guess.... But she is, without a shadow of a doubt, going to be a bird.
I beg to differ.
Actually, all things considered, a Sphinx would make the most sense.
Face of a woman, body of a lion, wings of an eagle, tail of a snake. It would explain why only her shoulders had spines, and how else would her veins be visible? All of the other Ascended were covered in scales, fur, or feathers.
I don't think Riot would just "steal" the Sphinx like that.
True, but speculation is fun.
Fun is subjective.
Fun is certainly not the word I would use to describe your theories.
Based on the general reception you seem to be getting elsewhere, I can't say others find them fun either.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=0000000000040000,timestamp=2018-11-07T19:09:04.212+0000)
I don't think it's a "wants to" situation.
Very true.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. This sounds more like trying to find a loophole around the statement, rather than just accepting what the statement was to begin with.
It's just the archetypes and themes Riot have been building towards, from the start, with the Darkin have pointed to Kayle and Morgana being involved. The Judicator and the Damned seem like the perfect champions to represent the Darkin Scales, light dark, pure corrupt. The way Aatrox calls them out, the way Valeeva has been written, all of the hands point to them being the next Darkin... Everything but that one Reddit post saying that they aren't Darkin.
I still think it's just a red harring.
Even if the arguments against Elise's religion weren't the best, that doesn't mean the arguments against the other religions weren't.
You mean the Targon one? The problem with that is, clearly not all Targonians worship the sun or moon, and Targon is the only thing left in their culture to worship.
Is the definition of a Darkin mentioned anywhere?
No.
Can you therefore say that this is what separates an Ascended from a Darkin?
No.
Well, it's not insanity, Renekton being a pure Ascended disproves that.
It's not being a tyrant, Xarath is still considered an Ascended.
That leaves other worldly blood magic, which could still have it's origins in the Void, and direct confrontation with the Void.
There are more locations than Demacia and the Shadow Isles.
There is Targon and Shurima, yes, but Targon seems like the one place a Darkin fleeing the gods wouldn't go, and Varus already searched Shurima.
Places like Zaun and Bilgewater are out, because Zaun was built on a bridge, and nothing is buried in Bilgewater. And from what we know about the places the weapons were sealed, they became hubs of human activity.
It does not make sense that Darkin weapons can just be combined all of a sudden.
What reason could she possibly have for making a scale anyway? How is a scale a more effective weapon than the sword she was already wielding, if Valeeva's weapon being a sword is to be believed?
It would most likely amplify both weapon's abilities. Like if Diana got her hands on Leona's sword, she would be significantly more powerful.
My guess as to how a scale would be strong than a sword is the scale can shoot things... most likely fire.
What?
Why would they be fighting and then suddenly one of them would sacrifice themself to save the other?
Oh no, I mean fighting the warrior queens who were hunting them down with their armies. Valeeva and Naganeka fighting the warrior queen's army.
In fighting the warrior queen Naganeka sacrificed herself, turning herself, the queen's army, and the giant forest into nothing but petricite. Then Valeeva eventually fell to the warrior queen and was sealed on the spot.
Poppy didn't disappear?
Well she left with the hammer.
There's no "winged sword" underneath Demacia.
Since the founding of Demacia, their strongest weapon has been their symbol, it was once the hammer, that left with Poppy, now is it a winged sword... Kayle's sword.
There are two ways this happened. The sword was already where they were building Demacia, or the sword was brought to Demacia by an Aspect Vastyan... A race Demacia is strongly against. A race that regularly hates humans.
Varus isn't done searching through all of Shurima.
He literally only searched one tomb. That's it.
He's still got an entire continent left.
Besides, Demacia and the Shadow Isles are not the only places left in the world.
Well, he sure as hell won't be searching Targon, or the Shadow Isles, he won't be searching Bilgewater because there is no burying anything in Bilgewater, and Zaun is a techno bridge spanning a deep river, that would be a weird place to bury anything, that just leaves Demacia.
Just like Kayle and Morgana somehow splitting a Darkin is.
Agree to disagree
Could you fit another ellipsis in there?
Yes. Also there are no Lions in Egypt.
All of the gods weren't falcons?
The bird gods were mostly falcons, an eagle, and a crane.
Besides the crane, not of lot of visual differences between the bird gods.
I don't think Riot would just "steal" the Sphinx like that.
Why not? Every champion "steals" visual elements from something when designing a champion. They already got Ra, Anubis, the crocodile one... Can't see how the Sphinx is taking it too far.
Fun is subjective.
Fun is certainly not the word I would use to describe your theories.
Based on the general reception you seem to be getting elsewhere, I can't say others find them fun either.
Fun is subjective.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesIt's just the archetypes and themes Riot have been building towards, from the start, with the Darkin have pointed to Kayle and Morgana being involved. The Judicator and the Damned seem like the perfect champions to represent the Darkin Scales, light dark, pure corrupt. The way Aatrox calls them out, the way Valeeva has been written, all of the hands point to them being the next Darkin... Everything but that one Reddit post saying that they aren't Darkin.
I still think it's just a red harring.
The whole "scale" thing isn't even confirmed.
And I don't think Riot would just lie like that.
Whatever the case is, them being related to Darkin or not, you believe they are, I believe they aren't, only option left is to just wait I guess.
I can only say I do not think you should get your hopes up.
You mean the Targon one? The problem with that is, clearly not all Targonians worship the sun or moon, and Targon is the only thing left in their culture to worship.
What do you mean by "clearly"?
Well, it's not insanity, Renekton being a pure Ascended disproves that.
Renekton might get retconned into being a Darkin for all we know.
His lore was before the relaunch, was it not?
Then it's basically non-canon, right?
It's not being a tyrant, Xarath is still considered an Ascended.
Xerath wasn't a tyrant during The Great Darkin War.
That leaves other worldly blood magic, which could still have it's origins in the Void, and direct confrontation with the Void.
I do not think Blood Magic can be considered Void Magic.
There is Targon and Shurima, yes, but Targon seems like the one place a Darkin fleeing the gods wouldn't go,
None of The Darkin ever fled anywhere, they were imprisoned.
and Varus already searched Shurima.
Varus hasn't searched all of Shurima yet.
You make it seem like he can travel the entirety of a continent and search every single tomb there in less than a day.
I don't think even a Darkin could accomplish that.
Places like Zaun and Bilgewater are out, because Zaun was built on a bridge, and nothing is buried in Bilgewater. And from what we know about the places the weapons were sealed, they became hubs of human activity.
The Serpent Isles near Bilgewater also exist.
It would most likely amplify both weapon's abilities. Like if Diana got her hands on Leona's sword, she would be significantly more powerful.
I'm not disputing what it would do.
I'm disputing that it's even possible to begin with.
My guess as to how a scale would be strong than a sword is the scale can shoot things... most likely fire.
A scale cannot shoot things.
It isn't a gun.
Do you see people in real life going around shooting each other with scales?
Oh no, I mean fighting the warrior queens who were hunting them down with their armies. Valeeva and Naganeka fighting the warrior queen's army.
In fighting the warrior queen Naganeka sacrificed herself, turning herself, the queen's army, and the giant forest into nothing but petricite. Then Valeeva eventually fell to the warrior queen and was sealed on the spot.
Why would they ally, much less actually give their lives for the other? The Darkin hated each other just as much as they hated anyone else.
If anything, Naganeka would probably sooner sacrifice Valeeva to save her own hide.
And the queen's army can't be turned into petricite. She needs them later on to seal herself beneath Pallas, and I think it would be written somewhere in Demacia's history that there's an area full of statues.
Well she left with the hammer.
She didn't "leave", she's still within the borders of Demacia.
Since the founding of Demacia, their strongest weapon has been their symbol, it was once the hammer, that left with Poppy, now is it a winged sword... Kayle's sword.
There are two ways this happened. The sword was already where they were building Demacia, or the sword was brought to Demacia by an Aspect Vastyan... A race Demacia is strongly against. A race that regularly hates humans.
If the sword was already there when they were building Demacia, it would've been the symbol from the beginning, not the hammer.
And nobody said anything about "Aspect Vastaya" here.
But yes, I do find it more plausible that the sword, if it even exists, was brought there rather than it being something that was found.
Well, he sure as hell won't be searching Targon, or the Shadow Isles, he won't be searching Bilgewater because there is no burying anything in Bilgewater, and Zaun is a techno bridge spanning a deep river, that would be a weird place to bury anything, that just leaves Demacia.
Bilgewater and Zaun makes sense, but I do not see why he wouldn't be searching in Targon or the Shadow Isles.
His love for his sister should outclass any potential fear he has of Targon, and same thing with the undead. I do not even know why he'd be scared of the undead to begin with.
Also, he isn't done searching Shurima.
Agree to disagree
Whatever you say.
Yes. Also there are no Lions in Egypt.
So what? There probably weren't monkeys either.
The bird gods were mostly falcons, an eagle, and a crane.
Besides the crane, not of lot of visual differences between the bird gods.
Still doesn't prove that the god of war was a wolf.
Why not? Every champion "steals" visual elements from something when designing a champion. They already got Ra, Anubis, the crocodile one... Can't see how the Sphinx is taking it too far.
I mean, fair point, but I still find the whole Sphinx thing unlikely.
They'd probably make her look like Isis (the goddess) before they make her look like the Sphinx.
Not that I think she's going to look like either.
Fun is subjective.
It is.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=000000000004000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-07T21:12:32.123+0000)
What do you mean by "clearly"?
Zoe and Taric clearly don't worship the sun or the moon. They talk about Targon.
Renekton might get retconned into being a Darkin for all we know.
His lore was before the relaunch, was it not?
Then it's basically non-canon, right?
Renekton was a bouncer to a library from space, who lived in Zaun's sewers before the lore relaunch.
His current lore is as canon as it can get.
Xerath wasn't a tyrant during The Great Darkin War.
When they were a tyrant has nothing to do with being a Darkin or not. Darkin were a thing from way before the Darkin War. It's an ancient Targonian word.
None of The Darkin ever fled anywhere, they were imprisoned.
What do you mean? At the end of Twilight of the Gods, it clearly says Valeeva, Naganeka, and Cebotaur ran away.
Varus hasn't searched all of Shurima yet.
You make it seem like he can travel the entirety of a continent and search every single tomb there in less than a day.
I don't think even a Darkin could accomplish that.
It's a narrative framing tool. Like if you have a character looking through boxes, and they show them digging through one box before zooming out to show many boxes, it's likely it's not in any box.
The next scene often shows them having gone through every box and still not found what they are looking for, and then they get a realization, or a calling to search one more place.
In a narrative, what a character is looking for is never in the first place they look. It's another one of those tropes I keep talking about. So yes, because Varus only searched one of countless ruins in Shurima for Valeeva and not finding her, she is not going to be in Shurima.
A scale cannot shoot things.
It isn't a gun.
Do you see people in real life going around shooting each other with scales?
Do people in real life turn into trees, or make bargains with demons, or fight ghosts?
If the magic scale can shoot fire then the magic scale can shoot fire, it's that simple.
Why would they ally, much less actually give their lives for the other? The Darkin hated each other just as much as they hated anyone else.
If anything, Naganeka would probably sooner sacrifice Valeeva to save her own hide.
And the queen's army can't be turned into petricite. She needs them later on to seal herself beneath Pallas, and I think it would be written somewhere in Demacia's history that there's an area full of statues.
Dire times call for dire acts, including allying with your enemy.
Also, those are two different queens. There were 3 warrior queen of Valoran. 3 queens, 3 armies, all hunting Darkin.
She didn't "leave", she's still within the borders of Demacia.
And yet the Demacian symbol changed from a hammer to a sword.
If the sword was already there when they were building Demacia, it would've been the symbol from the beginning, not the hammer.
They didn't even start building Demacia when the hammer was their symbol.
But yes, I do find it more plausible that the sword, if it even exists, was brought there rather than it being something that was found.
Why not? Magic weapons are found everywhere else. A giant magic sword was found in the Freljords, a magic bow was found in Ionia, and a scythe was found in Noxus.
Still doesn't prove that the god of war was a wolf.
The Egyptian god of war was named Wepwawet, he was essentially retconned and become Ra and Anubis before Montu became the god of war.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesZoe and Taric clearly don't worship the sun or the moon. They talk about Targon.
Zoe probably doesn't concern herself with religion due to her carefree nature, and Taric most likely worships the Protector.
Renekton was a bouncer to a library from space, who lived in Zaun's sewers before the lore relaunch.
His current lore is as canon as it can get.
But it is still before the relaunch, is it not?
When they were a tyrant has nothing to do with being a Darkin or not.
It can have everything to do with that.
Darkin were a thing from way before the Darkin War. It's an ancient Targonian word.
Of course the word existed. It means literally "fallen".
But just because the word existed doesn't mean corrupted Ascended existed.
Also, it was ancient Shuriman if I recall correctly, not Targonian.
What do you mean? At the end of Twilight of the Gods, it clearly says Valeeva, Naganeka, and Cebotaur ran away.
It was also said that them running away means nothing and Myisha will kill them all, but I guess we just conveniently choose to ignore that.
It's a narrative framing tool. Like if you have a character looking through boxes, and they show them digging through one box before zooming out to show many boxes, it's likely it's not in any box.
The next scene often shows them having gone through every box and still not found what they are looking for, and then they get a realization, or a calling to search one more place.
Okay.
And has it been shown that Varus has gone through more than one box yet?
In a narrative, what a character is looking for is never in the first place they look. It's another one of those tropes I keep talking about. So yes, because Varus only searched one of countless ruins in Shurima for Valeeva and not finding her, she is not going to be in Shurima.
I beg to differ.
Do people in real life turn into trees, or make bargains with demons, or fight ghosts?
If the magic scale can shoot fire then the magic scale can shoot fire, it's that simple.
Nobody is saying there is a scale to begin with, much less a magical one.
And even if it exists and if it's magical, it doesn't necessarily mean it can shoot fire.
You are the one making these claims.
Dire times call for dire acts, including allying with your enemy.
Allying is plausible to a certain degree, but it is way out of character for them to give their lives for each other.
Also, those are two different queens. There were 3 warrior queen of Valoran. 3 queens, 3 armies, all hunting Darkin.
No? There's only one queen.
And yet the Demacian symbol changed from a hammer to a sword.
That I cannot explain.
They didn't even start building Demacia when the hammer was their symbol.
We don't know if the "winged sword" symbol is recent, nor that Demacia stopped using a hammer right after Orlon died.
Why not? Magic weapons are found everywhere else. A giant magic sword was found in the Freljords, a magic bow was found in Ionia, and a scythe was found in Noxus.
And Yordles are also found in a lot of places.
Bilgewater, Demacia, Freljord, Ionia, Noxus, Piltover, Zaun and maybe Shurima.
Does that mean there are Yordles on Mount Targon or in the Shadow Isles?
No.
The Egyptian god of war was named Wepwawet, he was essentially retconned and become Ra and Anubis before Montu became the god of war.
Then the Egyptian god of war isn't a wolf.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=00000000000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-08T16:33:45.570+0000)
Zoe probably doesn't concern herself with religion due to her carefree nature, and Taric most likely worships the Protector.
There is a lot about the Targonian lore we still don't know. Even Ezreal's new voice lines joke about how we don't know anything about them.
But it is still before the relaunch, is it not?
What? I said the lore relaunch was when they said that the Institute of War, the league of legends, and summoners were no longer canon. Ever since then the lore has been canon and anything made from before that is not canon.
It can have everything to do with that.
There is nothing even hinting that the Darkin are called Darkin because they happen to be corrupted during a certain time period.
It was also said that them running away means nothing and Myisha will kill them all, but I guess we just conveniently choose to ignore that.
Yes, and all of the Darkin did die. Aatrox's body was vaporized and his soul was sucked into his sword.
Okay.
And has it been shown that Varus has gone through more than one box yet?
You do not need a character in a story to go through every box. Do you know how boring it would be to sit there and watch them go through every box?
Nobody is saying there is a scale to begin with, much less a magical one.
And even if it exists and if it's magical, it doesn't necessarily mean it can shoot fire.
You are the one making these claims.
The design of Kayle's sword can easily fold open into a scale. We know that her sword can shoot fire. Kayle is Lady Justice in LoL, a scale in one hand a sword in the other, but in Kayle's case they are both in the same hand.
Allying is plausible to a certain degree, but it is way out of character for them to give their lives for each other.
Maybe Naganeka had an escape plan, and it required her to die to make it work, die and not have her soul sucked into a weapon. Maybe Naganeka's soul is still "alive" and well in another body. Another snakey body.
No? There's only one queen.
The three queens are Teushpa, Sulpae and Idri-Mi, they were tasked by Myisha to seal the Darkin.
We don't know if the "winged sword" symbol is recent, nor that Demacia stopped using a hammer right after Orlon died.
It all depends really when Kayle's sword showed up.
And Yordles are also found in a lot of places.
Bilgewater, Demacia, Freljord, Ionia, Noxus, Piltover, Zaun and maybe Shurima.
Does that mean there are Yordles on Mount Targon or in the Shadow Isles?
No.
The Darkin weapons were sealed all across Valoran. No two have been found in the same place. Until yordles start showing a pattern of being bound to separate location, that is not a fair comparison to make.
Then the Egyptian god of war isn't a wolf.
That's not how that works.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesThere is a lot about the Targonian lore we still don't know. Even Ezreal's new voice lines joke about how we don't know anything about them.
Another great save.
What? I said the lore relaunch was when they said that the Institute of War, the league of legends, and summoners were no longer canon. Ever since then the lore has been canon and anything made from before that is not canon.
It is if everything of the above was removed from it.
There is nothing even hinting that the Darkin are called Darkin because they happen to be corrupted during a certain time period.
There is also nothing that says what separates the Ascended from the Darkin are the Void.
Yes, and all of the Darkin did die. Aatrox's body was vaporized and his soul was sucked into his sword.
She meant kill them like she did with the Darkin at the top of the summit.
You do not need a character in a story to go through every box. Do you know how boring it would be to sit there and watch them go through every box?
Boring is subjective.
The design of Kayle's sword can easily fold open into a scale.
No, it doesn't.
And before you send me that photoshop image of yours, I do not need to see it and it is by no means canon in the slightest.
We know that her sword can shoot fire.
And her sword and this "scale" is not confirmed to be the same thing.
Kayle is Lady Justice in LoL, a scale in one hand a sword in the other, but in Kayle's case they are both in the same hand.
Or, we can stop committing logical fallacies for once.
Maybe Naganeka had an escape plan, and it required her to die to make it work, die and not have her soul sucked into a weapon. Maybe Naganeka's soul is still "alive" and well in another body. Another snakey body.
There's nothing to suggest this is even possible in the slightest.
The three queens are Teushpa, Sulpae and Idri-Mi, they were tasked by Myisha to seal the Darkin.
They weren't queens, nothing in the lore states that they were queens.
They were Ta'anari's life bearers.
And no, they were not tasked by Myisha to seal the Darkin. The only thing Myisha said was that she wanted Idri-Mi to take the Chalicar to her weapon smiths.
The Darkin weapons were sealed all across Valoran. No two have been found in the same place.
Says who?
Until yordles start showing a pattern of being bound to separate location, that is not a fair comparison to make.
What do you mean by "showing patterns of being bound to separate locations"?
By your logic, because magical weapons are found in a wide variety of locations, that must mean one is in Demacia.
But apparently, despite Yordles being found in a wide variety of locations, that doesn't mean there are some in Targon or in the Shadow Isles.
That's not how that works.
Okay, how does it work then mister "I decide what works and what doesn't"?
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=0000000000040000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-08T18:24:35.600+0000)
It is if everything of the above was removed from it.
That isn't confirmed.
Teemo's lore doesn't mention the league or summoners, but it still isn't canon.
There is also nothing that says what separates the Ascended from the Darkin are the Void.
Their corruption is what separates them. The corruption is either caused by abusing blood magic, or the Void.
She meant kill them like she did with the Darkin at the top of the summit.
How would she do that? She wasn't the one hunting them down, the queens were. They didn't have the crossblade, that was sealed away in a tomb.
There's nothing to suggest this is even possible in the slightest.
Well Azir survived his mortal body being disintegrated, and the Darkin who were sealed in weapons had their souls "survive."
They weren't queens, nothing in the lore states that they were queens.
They were Ta'anari's life bearers.
His life-bearers were waiting for him in the sand-sunk antechamber. Once they had been queens and the rulers of mortal empires, but in the face of Ta’anari’s invincible warhost, they had pledged their swords to him.
And no, they were not tasked by Myisha to seal the Darkin. The only thing Myisha said was that she wanted Idri-Mi to take the Chalicar to her weapon smiths.
Well it was one of the queens that sealed Varus, not Myisha.
Says who?
The fact all of the Darkin have been sealed in different placed.
What do you mean by "showing patterns of being bound to separate locations"?
By your logic, because magical weapons are found in a wide variety of locations, that must mean one is in Demacia.
But apparently, despite Yordles being found in a wide variety of locations, that doesn't mean there are some in Targon or in the Shadow Isles.
I never said there wasn't yordles on Targon or in the Shadow Isles.
Okay, how does it work then mister "I decide what works and what doesn't"?
There were different sects in the Egyptian religion that worshiped different gods, and over time they kind of intermingled and the canon mixed and matched until Wepwawet merged with Ra and Anubis, and Montu became the god of war.
This kind of thing happens to religion all of the time. Christianity's civil war over the canon of the religion was one of the major factors that caused the fall of Rome.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesThat isn't confirmed.
Teemo's lore doesn't mention the league or summoners, but it still isn't canon.
Everything but the mention of the Mothership and the Megling Commanders should be.
Their corruption is what separates them. The corruption is either caused by abusing blood magic, or the Void.
I'm leaning towards Blood Magic since that is the only thing they are confirmed to wield.
How would she do that?
I do not know, but she said she would.
She wasn't the one hunting them down, the queens were.
The queen in singular, that is.
They didn't have the crossblade, that was sealed away in a tomb.
The crossblade is clearly not a requirement to imprison a Darkin.
Well Azir survived his mortal body being disintegrated,
And Azir isn't a Darkin.
and the Darkin who were sealed in weapons had their souls "survive."
Only the Darkin who were sealed in the weapons survived.
The rest died. As in died. As in they aren't coming back.
His life-bearers were waiting for him in the sand-sunk antechamber. Once they had been queens and the rulers of mortal empires, but in the face of Ta’anari’s invincible warhost, they had pledged their swords to him.
Keyword here being once.
They are not queens any longer, and we can't say for certain if the "golden queen of Valoran" is related to Ta'anari's lifebearers.
Well it was one of the queens that sealed Varus, not Myisha.
Not "one of", THE queen.
The fact all of the Darkin have been sealed in different placed.
We don't know if they are.
We've only found 3 out of 5 so far.
I never said there wasn't yordles on Targon or in the Shadow Isles.
There both is, and isn't, at the same time.
Just like there both is, and isn't, a Darkin weapon under Demacia.
There were different sects in the Egyptian religion that worshiped different gods, and over time they kind of intermingled and the canon mixed and matched until Wepwawet merged with Ra and Anubis, and Montu became the god of war.
This kind of thing happens to religion all of the time. Christianity's civil war over the canon of the religion was one of the major factors that caused the fall of Rome.
So the Egyptian god of war still isn't a wolf from what I can understand.
SSmotzer1 votes[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=NXkMWqyV,comment-id=000000000004000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-08T20:27:18.630+0000)
I'm leaning towards Blood Magic since that is the only thing they are confirmed to wield.
It could go either way at this point. Maybe blood magic is from the Void. Iceborn magic is from the Void, can't see why blood magic couldn't be.
The queen in singular, that is.
No Varus's lore says he was cornered by "a golden-armored warrior queen of Valoran" not "**the **queen."
Only the Darkin who were sealed in the weapons survived.
The rest died. As in died. As in they aren't coming back.
Exactly. So what if Naganeka managed to put her essence into the vat of her poison within Azir's temple. All she had to do was not get her essence sealed in a weapon.
Keyword here being once.
They are not queens any longer, and we can't say for certain if the "golden queen of Valoran" is related to Ta'anari's lifebearers.
What?
There both is, and isn't, at the same time.
Just like there both is, and isn't, a Darkin weapon under Demacia.
We aren't dealing with quantum mechanics here.
So the Egyptian god of war still isn't a wolf from what I can understand.
Then what is Wepwawet?
Warlord Rhinark1 votesIt could go either way at this point. Maybe blood magic is from the Void. Iceborn magic is from the Void, can't see why blood magic couldn't be.
It both is, and isn't, at the same time.
No Varus's lore says he was cornered by "a golden-armored warrior queen of Valoran" not "**the **queen."
You know of any other golden-armored warrior queens of Valoran?
And no, the lifebearers do not count, as they are neither:
Queens.
Clad in golden armor.
From Valoran.
Exactly. So what if Naganeka managed to put her essence into the vat of her poison within Azir's temple. All she had to do was not get her essence sealed in a weapon.
Did you not hear what I said?
All the Darkin that are not currently imprisoned within a weapon are dead.
If Naganeka is, according to you, not imprisoned within a weapon, then she is dead.
As in, not coming back dead.
What?
What I just said?
We aren't dealing with quantum mechanics here.
We're dealing with something that's not confirmed in the lore.
Then what is Wepwawet?
No longer canon from what I can tell.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesAm I allowed to say this discussion isn't over yet, or are you just going to tell me to "cool your jets there" again?
Warlord Rhinark1 votesIt could go either way at this point. Maybe blood magic is from the Void. Iceborn magic is from the Void, can't see why blood magic couldn't be.
No Varus's lore says he was cornered by "a golden-armored warrior queen of Valoran" not "**the **queen."
Exactly. So what if Naganeka managed to put her essence into the vat of her poison within Azir's temple. All she had to do was not get her essence sealed in a weapon.
What?
We aren't dealing with quantum mechanics here.
Then what is Wepwawet?
You can at least say you won't bother responding, rather than just not responding at all.
