Riots Refund Policy Reform

Azeroth·Dec 19, 2015·8 votes·902 views

So I bought arcade riven, stupidest thing I've ever purchased in the game, I'm not happy about it. when I write in asking for a refund I am met with a super standard, "sir we cannot help you because as you have already refunded three items" and I don't quite think that's fair. I created my account five years ago and I'm limited to three refunds total, its silly to think that I am allotted the amount of mistakes as I was four years ago. If I go into any store and purchase something and then decide I'm not content they'll let me refund that item, and it doesn't matter how many times its happened throughout the year, I can return as many items as I would like provided its within the time period. Steam has a refund policy that if I've had a game for less than two weeks and have less than three hours of playtime on it then I can get refund that game, I don't get the money refunded to my bank or that charge reversed from my credit card but at least I have that money deposited into my steam wallet to be able to spend on something else and not have to throw away my money because I bought something i'll never use. Riot Games should implement a system to allow more than three refunds per lifetime. It could be as simple as getting two refunds a year and if I don't use them then they get depleted at the end of the year and then I get another two for the next year. That method allows for everyone to make two mistakes a year and combat abuse of the system. It could also be something like, if I have had a skin or champion for less than two weeks and have played less than three games using the purchased product then I can refund it. The refund system is terrible in its current state and it needs an overhaul. I would also still like for the arcade riven skin to be refunded as i'm not getting any happier about owning it. Thank you for you're time and I hope this message helps make a change.

I sent this in to Riot and the employee told me the best I could do was post it here. So, here it is I know there are other people out there in the same boat as me and a lot of newcomers that this would also benefit, I just don't think the refund policy makes a whole lot of sense and If enough people express their opinions on the matter then maybe Riot will do something about it, so tell your stories, give your reasons, do whatever you like here, and have a nice day.

TL/DR: Riots refund policy should be changed to allow more refunds and if you share my beliefs then say something about it.

Moving this thread to http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/gvLXyQsk-riot-refund-policy-reform Because I think this is the wrong subthread

10 Comments

FlavorTownUSADec 19, 20154 votes

I fully agree that it is a player's responsibility to research a skin before purchasing, however there are the many cases of players blowing all of their refunds when they first start off playing out of naivety. I think the implementation of a system where let's say Riot gifts players 3 additional refunds at the end of the year for good behaviour would actually do the game a lot of good. I believe it would give players added incentive to not be inconsiderate, toxic twatbags.

D rokDec 19, 20151 votes

My problem with asking for additional refunds, is that Riot has a fully transparent business model in regards to skins. There are countless places to look up what the skin looks like, and how it performs BEFORE you buy it.

And your 3 refunds are there to forgive your first 3 mistakes. This is sort of one of those .... "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 4 times, shame on me" situations, imo.

Pierce The VealDec 19, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=D rok,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=IPPAGcUt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-19T03:40:45.370+0000)

My problem with asking for additional refunds, is that Riot has a fully transparent business model in regards to skins. There are countless places to look up what the skin looks like, and how it performs BEFORE you buy it.

And your 3 refunds are there to forgive your first 3 mistakes. This is sort of one of those .... "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me 4 times, shame on me" situations, imo.

And you can also watch videos of people using literally millions of other products that can be refunded in full for cash. You can go to a store and even try out what you're going to buy, AND EVEN THEN STILL RETURN IT. It's not the 20th century anymore. The customer is always right. If you like 1000 dollar skins and icons, and it works out well, Riot can do that. The type of refund that is being asked for won't even return the money. Being able to make a mistake and be forgiven for it increases customer satisfaction and loyalty. I'm really wondering what type of economic theory Riot follows. Austrian, maybe?

D rokDec 19, 20152 votes

You can complain about their economic theory being archaic... But realistically, you're actually looking at this from a classical economics perspective, which is kind of outdated in terms of virtual consumption and free-to-play models. Riot's whole situation surpasses typical customer satisfaction methods by a long shot, and no virtual service subscribes fully to classical economic theory any longer.

For one, the vast majority of the product is provided for free. The optional service you've opted into is entirely transparent, at a cost that is entirely transparent. Transparency is more important here, because having not actually provided any material good, Riot wants to make sure you commit to paying for the service, fully aware of what it means. It's up to you to decide you want it at the time of purchase.

If you were returning league for the price you obtained it for, that would make sense. This, however, is like receiving a TV for free, and getting upset because they won't refund the movie you paid for, after asking for (and receiving [and watching]) a free new one, 3 times. Even material product providers would start to get wary after 3 times. That's just not the service they're providing. This analogy is even a fairly conservative way of putting it, since riot provides both the product and running service for free.

The difference is in how consumption works in a virtual environment. Riot relies on people buying into optional services, and while they want you to be satisfied with them, they also know that they will not make money if they consistently refund their product. In this case, transparency is so much more important, because you know EXACTLY what you're getting, and what level of quality it is. "The customer is always right" is a cop-out in a virtual environment like this. Make smart decisions. You know exactly what you're buying - take some responsibility for it.

Pierce The VealDec 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=D rok,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=IPPAGcUt,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-19T08:24:49.815+0000)

You can complain about their economic theory being archaic... But realistically, you're actually looking at this from a classical economics perspective, which is kind of outdated in terms of virtual consumption and free-to-play models. Riot's whole situation surpasses typical customer satisfaction methods by a long shot, and no virtual service subscribes fully to classical economic theory any longer.

For one, the vast majority of the product is provided for free. The optional service you've opted into is entirely transparent, at a cost that is entirely transparent. Transparency is more important here, because having not actually provided any material good, Riot wants to make sure you commit to paying for the service, fully aware of what it means. It's up to you to decide you want it at the time of purchase.

If you were returning league for the price you obtained it for, that would make sense. This, however, is like receiving a TV for free, and getting upset because they won't refund the movie you paid for, after asking for (and receiving [and watching]) a free new one, 3 times. Even material product providers would start to get wary after 3 times. That's just not the service they're providing. This analogy is even a fairly conservative way of putting it, since riot provides both the product and running service for free.

The difference is in how consumption works in a virtual environment. Riot relies on people buying into optional services, and while they want you to be satisfied with them, they also know that they will not make money if they consistently refund their product. In this case, transparency is so much more important, because you know EXACTLY what you're getting, and what level of quality it is. "The customer is always right" is a cop-out in a virtual environment like this. Make smart decisions. You know exactly what you're buying - take some responsibility for it.

This is not "classic" economic theory by a long shot. Countless studies have shown that offering refunds to customers increases profit in the long run, even when cash is being returned, not virtual coin. This will allow Riot to draw in the average customer, instead of just the extremely devoted. The average revenue per player for LoL is 3-4 dollars. That means I, who have spent 75 dollars, indicate that there should be around 20 other players who spend nothing on the game. If a single of those players spent 10 dollars the average goes up by 50 cents, and so on. If even one or two more people spend money because of this refund policy-even in their whole lifetime, Riot will have turned a huge profit.

D rokDec 19, 20151 votes

Having 3 free refunds will encourage and benefit those who spend LESS more than those who spend more. Riot is making money from those who make many purchases, and keep them. They're not losing money on those who spend less, because there's a safety net there that provides incentive to buy. I think you're arguing the wrong point - If you're worth 20 people who haven't spent anything, it's in their best interest to not allow you the same degree of leniency with your refunds, because they KNOW you will buy... You don't offer the cash cow it's milk back. No offense.

I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

Pierce The VealDec 20, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=D rok,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=IPPAGcUt,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-19T23:40:23.795+0000)

Having 3 free refunds will encourage and benefit those who spend LESS more than those who spend more. Riot is making money from those who make many purchases, and keep them. They're not losing money on those who spend less, because there's a safety net there that provides incentive to buy. I think you're arguing the wrong point - If you're worth 20 people who haven't spent anything, it's in their best interest to not allow you the same degree of leniency with your refunds, because they KNOW you will buy... You don't offer the cash cow it's milk back. No offense.

I think we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this one.

Whoever said they need to allow me infinite refunds?

However, if a few more people were encouraged to spend because of this, they would more than double their profit. Riot's strength isn't a few ridiculous fans, it's their huge playerbase.

RogueWillDec 19, 20151 votes

well.... If you were to see vidoes of the skin, the model itself and particles before buying it you wouldn't have problems. I also think 2 weeks is way too much, it shoudl be 1 game and 24h otherwise is a test drive and not an actual mistake buy.

Merl LesterDec 19, 20151 votes

best indie game gotta buy the dlc

ModKnightsKemplarDec 19, 20151 votes

I think two refunds per year wouldn't be that bad, but I also see them losing some money on that deal, so I can't blame them too much... Again, there's plenty of ways to do your research before buying the skin, so the burden is on you to do that research.