New Idea for Items: Cursed Items

BehemothsRoar··2 votes·1,040 views

So all of a sudden I had a thought, which has never happened before. I thought that it would be cool if there were items with stat penalties. But why would anybody buy an item with stat penalties you ask? Because they would give you a lot of power in a different area, and they would be cheap!

So I think a big problem with the new league which focuses teamwork and counter-play is that you can't counter-play a huge gold deficit. You have to simply wait until the enemy team makes a mistake somewhere, and at lower levels of play you most likely can't capitalize on their mistakes. But if you could buy a full tier Item for 1000-1500 gold cheaper, you can make up that item difference if you are getting stomped in lane.

Now, there are a lot of problems with making an item so powerful for so little gold, and that's where the penalties come in. Say you buy a cursed item that increases your attack damage by 40 or 50, it could have a stat penalty on attack speed or movement speed to balance it out. But that might still be considered overpowered and would only help people already ahead snowball more. The solution? Make the items completely undesirable for anybody other than people who have no other options. My solution would be that you could only buy one cursed item per game and you are unable to sell it. You would be stuck with a penalty the rest of the game and lose out on an optimized build late game, in exchange for a power spike that might help you or your team get back into the game. If that doesn't work I'm sure that you are all creative enough to find something that does, or you could just make the items and not care if they help the team with the large gold lead as well. New items = more diversity and fun!

(Note that the penalties don't have to be stat penalties either. They could increase the death timer, reduce gold earned from kills and assists, or any other number of things.)

Now the easiest way to incorporate Cursed Items is to just make them "unfinished items." For example, you could immediately upgrade to a cursed infinity edge using just 2 of the items instead of 3 and make the combine cost dependent on which items you buy. item 1038 1300 + item 1037 875 + combine cost 225 = 2400 gold; or item 1037 875 + item 1018 800 + combine cost 725 = 2400 gold. As for the penalty? How should I know what would balance that out?

However, you could make entirely new items with the same mindset. Cheap, strong, and risky; unlike all of the current items which have literally no risk (except item 3041 ) unless you pick the wrong item or you don't have enough gold. There are so many possibilities with champion builds if you start adding penalties to items. For example, a super strong ap item that gives like 140-160 ap at the exchange of 500 maximum mana. (I have no idea if that is balanced or not...Veigar ) The main problem with this line of thought would be balancing the items, especially if you used the more obscure penalties and not stat penalties which already have somewhat fixed values.

Closing out, you people at riot should consider adding some high risk/high reward type items. Not like item 3041 that just lets you snowball, but items that could help you comeback from losing or in turn could completely cost you the game.. and here i thought elo hell couldn't get any worse. Well I still think it's a good idea.

5 Comments

PandanDragon2 votes

This question has been asked all the way back in 2012-present. Riot have said no. ;x They would stagnate builds.

BehemothsRoar1 votes

Do you mind explaining how the builds would stagnate? In my imagination cursed items would be primarily for teams who are losing badly and need a desperate measure in order to even out the score, but if they don't turn the game around they will be punished for it by most likely losing. And if the winning team buys cursed items, then the penalties might allow the losing team to counter-play.

ModThe Djinn2 votes

{quoted}

Do you mind explaining how the builds would stagnate? In my imagination cursed items would be primarily for teams who are losing badly and need a desperate measure in order to even out the score, but if they don't turn the game around they will be punished for it by most likely losing. And if the winning team buys cursed items, then the penalties might allow the losing team to counter-play.

Sure!

A few things first. Let's talk about purchase satisfaction in games. Players like purchasing power. Players are okay with purchasing RISKY power (Mejai's Soulstealer in League, DotA's Divine Rapier).

Players do NOT like receiving penalties. The only time players will opt into penalties is if the rewards are unquestionably worth it

Now, obviously this isn't a 100% case -- this is just overall trends in the player population. Call it 95%+ certainty.

This is a big issue for such a design though. When you're behind, buying something to get yourself back into the game has to be worth it immediately, or you're better off waiting until late game and matching the enemy at full build. We have items like that in the form of consumable potions -- if you need a brief burst of power NOW, they're useful. Currently this is rarely worth it though, as sacrificing power later for a chance to do better now is still a good way to lose -- the enemy team is still ahead of you, and will now only pull further ahead in terms of late-game power unless you can match them and make up the difference.


So let's imagine a cursed item that is powerful enough to do that: make up the difference on a team that is, say, 4k gold behind. That team buys several cursed items to get back in the game. There are a few scenarios that can emerge:

CURSED ITEMS ARE MORE EFFICIENT THAN THEIR DOWNSIDES: In this situation, the cursed items really help, and let the losing team get back into the game. The problem here is that the items are clearly worth the cost and more, since they have to be under-costed for their benefits to be appealing. This means that a team that's already winning has a strong incentive to buy these: they're ahead enough to sacrifice more in order to keep that advantage, while the losing team is actually less likely to be able to run the risk of lowering stats they might need. A team in the lead may be able to afford a 10 second longer death timer if they're confident they can't die, for example -- while a losing team can't take that risk unless they're only SLIGHTLY behind.

CURSED ITEMS ARE TUNED TO NOT BE APPEALING TO TEAMS WITH ADVANTAGES: Then these items are largely trap items -- an item that you don't want in a full build is likely a trap item. Sure, it might provide power NOW, but it has to be tuned to be worse than other items in the long run, or losing becomes a strategy. If behind behind gives you access to very powerful items for cheaper costs, than it is advantageous to BE slightly behind, purchase them, win a fight handily, and secure a powerful lead.

CURSED ITEMS ARE TRULY DETRIMENTAL EVEN THOUGH THEY PROVIDE BIG BONUSES: Only bad players buy them, and they're DEFINITELY traps. Sword of the Occult was a good example, although it didn't QUITE fill the same place -- it appealed to melee assassins in particular for the massive AD it could bring, but required them to get kills without dying: something very difficult for an AD assassin to accomplish. The result is that it was either useless (the downsides outweighed the cost heavily, making the item worthless), or super overpowered (the character got lucky or was better than their opponents, used it to great effect, and stomped the game singlehandedly). Making things turn characters into this sort of glass cannon, feast-or-famine thing isn't good for design, and cursed items are inherently feast-or-famine -- get the stats you might need at the expense of being weaker elsewhere.


The end result of these is either that the game switches to a state where cursed items are mandatory for early/mid-game power, or becomes a state where cursed items exist, and are almost entirely ignored since they're not "worth it." It's going to be very hard to design a group of items that shore up the power of a losing team without making them tempting to the winning team as well, and without crowding out the other items in the game.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

The classic double-edged sword.

Sancre1 votes

Its sounds good, but only if focused on the adequate way

I recomend you to think in some examples and post them, as these kinds of things are more understandable with some examples, and I think that naming them like normal items would be a bad idea, there are many times where you must buy in a hurry, and if you are just following for example the infinity edge buildpath, you are in a hurry and suddenly you see a infinity edge on the list that is avaliable for building, without realizing the gold isn't enough, and you click it. If you banned reselling them, refunding them shouldn't be avaliable too, so this mistake could spell certain doom.

For the rest, I like how it sounds

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