Teemo, the Swift Scout [Rework]

SupportMeDaddy··5 votes·2,203 views

Teemo Ohhhhhh boy are we taking the devil by the horns today boys. Literally. Here is a champion who has been called the spawn of Satan, and with good reason. Depending on your matchups, he's either the most annoying little fuzzball to hit the rift, or he's the scrub who went 0/14 in the jungle. And while it's been a running joke in the community for a long time, let's be real here: it's time for his reign of terror to come to an end.

So let's get down to it: why does everyone hate Teemo so much?

A lot of it has to do with a phrase that League designers just love to use when talking about champion design: counter play. As of right now, Teemo's kit has little to no counter play to it. His Q is targeted, his E is a passive, and the only way to avoid stepping on his shrooms is to pink the whole Rift, and ain't no one got the gold fo' that. It creates an unhealthy state of play where the only way to not take damage from a Teemo is to stay away from him, and given that his mushrooms don't deactivate while he's not around like Heimer turrets (seriously Riot, that's one of the easiest changes you could make), even that doesn't work sometimes. Sieging is a nightmare, and just looking for a safe bush to hide in after a team fight can be a traumatic endeavor.

On the flip side of this, the stealth portion of his passive is fairly counter-intuitive, and for the most part, useless, and his W is easily negated by hard CC. So when Teemo gets behind, he has no outplay potential to save him. He just has to hope the enemy is greedy enough to chase, which often isn't the case if they're smart. But his lack of any real utility outside of a blind, which does nothing for him against ability-based champions, and a slow.

On top of all this, the conflict between the huge AP scaling on his Q, and the attack speed his passive gives him is quite the conundrum. Do you build him burst? Or sustain? It's unclear, though the consensus is AP/AS/Hybrid as far as I've seen.

So now the question is, how do we fix him? Here is what I propose.

We'll start with his passive, as it's essential to understanding the rest of his design.

Passive: Natural Camouflage

Each time Teemo uses an ability, he spawns a spore at his location. This spore will grow for a few seconds, during which time, it can be destroyed. Once it's finished growing, it becomes a mushroom that lasts 10 seconds, granting stealth to Teemo while he's near it. This stealth is broken when Teemo attacks, uses an ability, or takes damage.

Whenever Teemo attacks or uses a damaging ability while stealthed, it deals bonus magic damage and blinds the target, causing their next autoattack to miss. The blind will not apply to the same enemy more than once every 10 seconds.

Now, before you freak out, let me clarify a few things:

  1. This mushroom is fully visible to enemies and allies alike.
  2. This mushroom doesn't explode on contact, though it also can't be broken. It doesn't deal damage, doesn't slow, and can't be removed.

We good? Good. This passive will create an interesting lane dynamic for both players as it'll give the Teemo player something to think about in the timers on his mushrooms, while also giving the opponent the chance to keep the mushrooms from growing if they're willing to make a risky trade. In the worst case for Teemo, it'll either give the enemy something to attack that isn't him, or it'll give him an escape option.

The second clause is to add more clarity to his kit. Maybe he's played as an autoattacker right now, but I'm building him as a burst mage instead. If you disagree with that, you're welcome to click away and write up your own rework. In fact, I'd love to see it!

Now I'm sure you're wondering: But what about his ultimate? I'm getting to it. Don't worry.

Okay, with that out of the way, let's take a look at his new Q.

Q: Down To Size

Teemo slashes at target enemy, dealing magic damage and rooting them for 1 second.

Yep, you read that right. Slashes. While Teemo's signature weapon is the blowgun, if you look at Omega Squad Teemo's model, you can see him brandishing a knife. And what's a knife good for if you're not slashing anyone with it?

Teemo's old Q was particularly frustrating because it had lots of range, so it was all reward and no risk. Sure you had to step forward, but if the enemy wasn't primed to fully engage, they would just take lots of free damage and miss CS, which was incredibly frustrating. The new Q rewards Teemo for getting up close and personal, a range he's not usually comfortable with, and in case you don't feel like going in, the root can help punish those who wander to close, whether knowingly or not.

It's elegant in its simplicity, and a useful tool regardless of the damage it deals.

W: Tiptoe

Teemo creates a barrier that blocks the next enemy ability that hits him for the next 1.5 seconds. If Teemo blocks an ability, he gains a burst of movement speed and stealth.

As if the mushrooms weren't enough, this ability will help Teemo against ability users, and give him a lot of juke potential. It'll also help avoid getting hit by AoE abilities while he's in range of his mushrooms. But like many key abilities, it would have a long-ass cooldown, and thus must be used wisely. This would be especially useful if Teemo is having a hard time getting his mushrooms to stick.

E: Cultivate

The nearest spore to Teemo instantly becomes a mushroom.

Not much to say about this one. More tools to make sure his shrooms are around. This one would also have a decent cooldown, as it removes the inherent counterplay to his mushrooms.

And finally, the moment you've all been waiting for. His ultimate.

R: Noxious Blast

Teemo detonates all mushrooms around him, slowing all enemies near them and dealing magic damage over a few seconds.

So yeah, your mushrooms still explode! Only, they would do so on command, and require a bit of set up. All of the mushrooms are also visible, so enemies have more time to decide whether they want to make risky engagements.

I feel this kit is more thematically coherent than his current kit, and would be a ton of fun to play as and against if played right. The location of his shrooms being visible makes it easy to know where to place pinks, and though the stealth component of his kit is very prominent, he has plenty of utility to help him catch up if he falls behind. He has multiple ways to deal with different kinds of champions, but never in an inherently unfair way. His shield can be baited, and the blind component would be difficult to control timing-wise.

This has been a difficult one to think through, and is a lot more radical than the Urgot rework I previously proposed (which I would highly recommend you check out if you haven't already). But I think it succeeds at fixing many of the problems Teemo currently has, and gives him a more exciting playstyle.

Thanks for reading!

24 Comments

Leonidas Freedom2 votes

I'm a really big fan of reworks, as I like to see people's takes on the character's theme, however this drastically changes teemo's playstyle and overall purpose, which is not a good thing.

the reason that it was acceptable for Sion is because the former incarnation of Sion did not have a set role and his playstyle was a mess.

SupportMeDaddy2 votes

What is Teemo's overall purpose right now?

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

Teemo is and always has been the swift scout. He's a gank-heavy burst mage or magic damage Marksman who focuses on map control.

His passive allows him to essentially function as a ward and evade enemy line of site while providing it to his team. same goes with his mushrooms.

His Q, the core of his burst potention, also functions as a somewhat-supportive ability, preventing enemies from dealing basic attack damage for a set amount of time. and what would the best contigency for someone who's trying to evade capture be? blinding them maybe.

His W is exactly what makes him the swift scout. Movement speed buffs form the core of his gank potential and map control.

his E allows him to output quick, persistant magic damage on his otherwise weak basic attacks.

and last but not least, his ult, which functions as wards and area denial tools. Are you going to gank mid and dive through his mushroom? Did he realize that you just triggered the one in tri bush?

SupportMeDaddy1 votes

So Teemo's purpose is to be a ward? That is the most unfun concept I've ever heard.

Also, if you look at his bush passive, it makes no sense. Either:

A) The bush you just went into is warded, and even if you go into stealth, the enemy will know you're there! OR B) The bush isn't warded and the enemy won't see you regardless!

It's hardly ever useful, and literally everything about it aside from the bit of attack speed is completely negated by proper warding.

And no, for someone trying to evade capture, using an ability that makes you unable to move for a second, allwoing your opponents to gain on you, and only stops your opponent from AAing you is not the best idea. You know what is? Something that stops your opponent from moving. Like a root.

If the core of your gank potential is moving faster than your opponent, I weep for you. All that means is that you have no other way to keep your opponent from getting away while you autoattack them to death. You might as well be the old Fiora. And btw, we already have a Yordle who moves really fast. His name is Kennen.

His E could just as well be removed in place of a stronger autoattack to make room for a more interesting ability if that's the case.

And let's be honest: no one uses Teemo's mushrooms for vision. They stick them around the map in hopes of picking off a free kill on an unsuspecting low health enemy. Yeah, it works as area denial, but literally making your opponent afraid to walk isn't a good thing.

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

I agree that the bush portion of his passive doesn't make much sense, but it's saved my life more times than I can count.

teemo's purpose is not "to be a ward." It is to provide vision and map control. Like a scout.

all abilities make you unable to move unless they're mobility or specifically are designed not to do that. Considering the minor "root" (as if) duration which can be made shorter by properly animation cancelling, that portion of your argument is not only invalid, it's stupid to try to cling to.

The core of his map control and gank potential, like most champions who have great map control (hecarim, rek'sai, rammus) comes from being able to manuever around the map effectively. Teemo came out before kennen, so maybe you should argue that to kennen mains? It also isn't a thematic core to kennan, it's a thematic core to Teemo.

His E is not only Iconic AND thematic, it's DOT is a lot more utility-based than just a "stronger auto attack." Why don't we just replace Vi's W with "just a stronger auto attack"

and let's be honest: Bad players don't use teemo's mushrooms for vision or map control.

Ýones2 votes

Only ability for Teemo that needs to get reworked is his W. His kit is fine, it doesn't need such a massive change.

SupportMeDaddy2 votes

His kit really is not fine right now. He's in a spot where he's really difficult to balance because his damage is unconditional. As I said in the post, there's no way to play around it aside from not be near Teemo, and post 6 even that may not work. Currently, he's either really strong because he bullies his opponent out of lane because his autos do tons of damage for literally no reason, or he gets stomped because he has no reliable utility. Which is terrible.

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

damage isn't supposed to be conditional. League of Legends is a game that, at its base, is about numbers in and numbers out.

SupportMeDaddy3 votes

Yes it is. Look at Ryze. Why did they make his Q a skillshot? Because walking up to someone and clicking a bunch of buttons requires no skill, and losing to it feels bad. You get free trades in lane because that damage is unconditional. If you look at pretty much any mage, they're all skillshots. That is the core of conditional damage. Did you hit the ability? If yes, you get damage. If no, you get no damage. As opposed to: Did you click on the champion? Yes? You get damage.

There's only one role that relies on clicking, and that's marksmans and even they have conditional damage in some way or other. Draven's Axes, Ezreal's Q, Ashe's W. They're all conditional damage. It's what mechanical skill is based around. And not accounting for that is lazy design, and it's unhealthy because there's no way to avoid it. You can dodge a skillshot. You can't dodge a targeted ability.

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

I'm not sure where Nightmare Crawler got the idea that Teemo is an assassin, but the reason that his skills are often automatic are because he is quite literally an APC. that is to say that he is the hybrid between an ADC and a Burst Mage.

I've always said that his Q should be turned into a skill shot, though. Especially if it had a thin hitbox and longer range. It'd make playing and decemating people as him so much more satisfying.

As iKratosKlayton said, the only real thing that could be improved on Teemo is his W, but it's still thematic to both his character concept and role. Like I said, teemo's entire point is to be a map-controlling APC.

instead of being a movement speed steroid, I would keep the passive movement speed and make it a roll, swapping its location with his poison darts.

SupportMeDaddy1 votes

Let's take a look at a few situations regarding the "burst mage/marksman hybrid" idea.

A) He is on par with both marksmans and burst mages in their dedicated roles. He becomes a superior pick to any champion who is a dedicated burst mage or marksman because he does everything they can do and more.

B) He is on par with either marksmans or burst mages, but not both. He is still better than any of the dedicated roles because he can do everything they can do, but more. If you give more tools to someone who is already on par, they become above average, even if those tools are suited for a different role.

C) He is on par with neither. Why even pick him?

That idea just doesn't work.

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

except the issue exists that you can not build both effectively at the same time. You can be either a) a strong magic damage carry or b) a strong burst mage. you can not be both.

this is what comes from having a champion that encourages multiple play styles. It pains me to see new champion reworks like taric who get nerfed to all hell because they've got a kit that forces one specific play style. Taric used to be a strong jungler and top laner, which he still can be, but he's 100% a support. He has to be in order to use his full kit.

SupportMeDaddy2 votes

N- nerfed? You... you think he was... nerfed? I'm. I'm just done. I'm just... wow. You go on believing what you want to believe. I can't carry on with this debate.

Leonidas Freedom1 votes

he's stronger in a lot of areas, but when an entire ability has been removed and replaced with an ability that's clunky and heavily reliant on a duo lane, it's a nerf. compared to the ability that it removes, what else would you call it?

SupportMeDaddy1 votes

Clunky? What level are you operating on? You press W and a champion does everything you do. Bruh. It's not even that hard. How do you even make that difficult?

Compared to a little free armor and an AoE damage, having not one but two stacking AoE heals on top of the added spacial coverage on your stun is ridiculous.

And his ult makes, AT MINIMUM, two people completely invulnerable to damage for a whole TWO AND A HALF SECONDS. It is a super charged Kayle ult? That's what you call a nerf? I can't even.

Leonidas Freedom2 votes

you're really cherrypicking what I'm saying, but okay. Let me explain it in a way you should be able to understand.

Many champions (generally supportive champions) are viable for multiple roles. Many of the more recent reworks (and I used taric's as an example) instead force them into one specific role.

the reason I used taric as an example is because, as I said, he could be played as a top lane solo laner and jungler quite effortlessly, with differing build paths for each role. He had options.

Teemo, as he is right now, has **options.**he can be a very powerful DPS marksman who excells in bot lane. He can be a very powerful top lane mage. He can, if you are quite skilled, be an very effecient jungler with high map presence.

However, he can not be all of these things.

Taric's rework forces him to be a support with very few other options. This rework you've suggested has many problems with it

  • it completely changes Teemo's role
  • it destroys his current playstyle (something that a rework should never do)
  • it shoehorns him into a very, very specific role.

The reason that riot takes their time with reworks is because they have to maintain the balance of old and new. Sure, tarik's no longer the anti-tank tank he was, but he's still a tanky support with a heal on his Q and a skillshot stun. While those abilities have been redesigned, and his kit has been shoehorned into specific roles, it still feels reminiscent of his old play style.

Graves, Caitlyn, Quinn, Garen, Darius, Poppy. All of them sport changes to existing abilities or new abilities that are still heavily reminiscent of their former abilities, with little margin.

Garen is still the big guy with the sword who's great at ganking. Darius is still the dominating bleed-happy fighter. However, both of them have new properties on them that make them more interesting to play and only marginally changes their goals when laning. Darius needs to be even more consistantly in the thick of the team fight, healing and lining up his ult to get a penta. Garen needs to pull off of top in order to hunt down his villain.

Graves' rework repurposed him, and is actually the only rework in this list that opened him up to more possibilities instead of just redifining how to go about existing possibilities, or removing existing possibilities. He's always supposed to have been a short range high burst damage ADC. Now he's the epitome of that.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

SupportMeDaddy2 votes

I understand what you're saying. I just disagree. I don't think it's necessary for a champion to have options. Not the way the game plays right now.

And I don't think I'm completely destroying what Teemo is, since I don't think he is anything. I don't see anything unique about him. You want to talk movement? You brought her up, Quinn. She does everything Teemo does, but in AD form. She's a fast, gank-heavy AD caster/marksman who provides vision. The only thing she doesn't do is area denial, and that's arguably one of the most frustrating things about Teemo right now. It doesn't require thought or skill to put a mushroom in a bush. And if you look at it, she does what he does better because her ult makes her so fast you can hardly react to her ganks. You flash away from Teemo, and there's nothing he can do abut it. His mushrooms aren't going to help you with that gank.

So what does Teemo want to do? Gank? Or provide vision? One or the other? Because dividing up a kit among two discordant playstyles is super inefficient, and makes the kit confusing. Like, if his Q is burst, and his E is for sustain, then by building straight AP, you're underutilizing one of your abilities that could otherwise be helping you do even more burst damage, or reposition, or something. Yeah, you can build Teemo as either, but neither of them are good because his kit isn't dedicated to either of those roles.

Yes, it is making Teemo an assassin, but have you actually read his lore? He works best on solo missions. So why is he running bot lane with a support and providing vision for his team? That's not his style. His backstory is very assassin-esque. Maybe the changes are radical, but that doesn't mean they're unwarranted.

I'm sorry, but the way the game works, everyone fits one role. With the new champion select and dynamic queue, Riot's already made it clear that that's the direction they're pushing it. If you want to go blind pick and play whatever off-meta thing you want, that's fine. But if I'm a champion whose sole purpose is to burst you, and you have a skill dedicated to giving your autos additional damage, and you're not building for that, I'm going to be the better burst mage.

As fun as it is to have options, I'd rather have focus.

To recap:

His passive makes him a ward.

His Q makes him a burst mage.

His W makes him a ganker.

His E makes him a marksman.

His R gives him map control.

None of this is in any way coherent. He doesn't excel at any of this. Why should I pick him?

I made him an assassin. His passive gives him stealth, gives him damage, gives him CC. His Q gives him damage. Gives him CC. His W gives him stealth. Gives him movement speed. His E directly interacts with his passive. His ult gives him damage. Gives him CC. Directly interacts with his passive. It's coherent. It's efficient. Maybe the playstyle is specific, but at least it's clear. At least you know what you're picking Teemo for. The current Teemo's kit is eclectic. It's inefficient. It's unremarkable. And none of that is going to change if you hold onto this idea that a champion can be more than one thing at a time. Some champions can be built AP or AD because they have multiple scalings, but no champion is just as strong one way as the other. With the exception of maybe Shaco and Udyr, who are exceptions because their utility is so strong that it doesn't matter what kind of damage they're dealing, no champion does not lean toward either one or the other.

Riot designs them for very specific purposes. And if Teemo wants to be either or a burst mage or a marksman, then he's going to fail at both roles because one or more of his abilities don't support that playstyle.

You want to focus an entire kit on map control? Good luck making that balanced. Vision is one of the most powerful mechanics in the game. Early Teemo had an increased sight radius for a passive, and they scrapped that because even that was too strong. And area denial is, as I said, punishing players for /walking/. For just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You can put down pinks. You can buy red trinket. But despite your efforts, you're going to run out of resources. And if in that moment, you hit a shroom and die, I guarantee you the tilt will be so strong, you might as well be an old arcade pinball machine.

If you want to doom Teemo to a life of never being good enough at anything because his kit has split personality disorder, you go right ahead. But I'm designing for how champions are built now. One role. One purpose. Concise. Coherent. Efficient. As I said, I built him as a burst mage and not a marksman. That is, if you actually read my notes. To self-quote: "...if you don't like that, you can click away and go write up your own rework."

Leonidas Freedom2 votes

two things: just because you have opinions on something like teemo having a place or not doesn't mean those opinions trump fact

also, I do release rework ideas. I just understand the fundamentals behind them.

SupportMeDaddy2 votes

You have yet to present me with a fact that trumps my opinion. I've given you evidence that this is a direction that the makers of this game are pushing it, and you've even cited evidence yourself by way of Taric. I've listed why Teemo's kit right now doesn't work. I've given you a logical argument to why dividing a champion's kit to fit two different roles is inefficient. I've given you a champion who does everything Teemo does but better. You have yet to prove any of this wrong. I've explained that the only distinct part of his playstyle is harmful to the game because it creates a mentality of fear and frustration, and makes the game more toxic. I've explained why his playstyle needs to change.

And all you've given me is opinions. Of what a rework should or should not do. Should not shoehorn a champion into a single role. Should not change their playstyle. None of this is fact. You say Sion's rework was fine because he had no place. What about Teemo? You've said that he can be played marksman, top lane, I've seen him mid, jungle. What is his place? Everywhere but support?

And I suspect that your arguments come from you own bias, given your comments about "decimating people." You don't want Teemo to change because you like him the way he is now. That's not fact. That's an opinion.

A fact is that he's one of the most complained about champions on the rift because nobody likes seeing him. Not on their team or the enemy's. Because right now he is sub-par at everything because of the divide in his kit, and yet still manages to be frustrating by being present even when he's dead, and racking up kills with a brainless trap that deals lots of damage for no reason.

W isn't a key ability for ganking. People just recognize it because he runs away and leads you through a death trap of mushrooms. He is Singed levels of don't chase that.

The most definitive parts of his playstyle are the most toxic, and they need to change. That's not opinion. That's fact.

You're free to debate that all you want. I won't be responding.

NightmareCrawler2 votes

I actually really do like this. And as a rebuttal to the other persons comment: Teemo's current roll (if you could even call it that) isn't even a cemented one. He's a marksman, a mage and an assassin, with no particular focus on any of the above. With the appearance of this rework it seems to make him more of a mage/assassin. I like it!

SupportMeDaddy1 votes

Thank you for the kind words! =D

Dragonborn7391 votes

I honestly love this idea. I could see it as getting OP if left to farm or fed, but also very easy to fight against if you burst him while his W is down. One idea I had for this is that his E also gave him Movement Speed as well, kind of like his old W, but only if he's around a spore, and this would cause Teemo to plan out his escapes and engages before hand.

Elôhim1 votes

VU is needed bad, he's kit is fine

Sprisia1 votes

I like this idea. This would make playing against teemo bearable when ganking or trying to run through the enemy jungle. (I mean come on. We all know hes solo-q only, and teamates dont like to buy sweepers).

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