New scythe champion?

Rîven·Feb 26, 2017·6 votes·2,007 views

Was thinking about the champions and noticed we don't have a champion with a scythe (unless I magically missed it somehow if I did comment) where his/her range is slightly larger than a normal melee champion, I mean it's a scythe maybe have a mechanic kinda like Darius's Q where you do more damage with the blade and if they're too close they take less, have it be a very difficult assassin based around that mechanic^ or something very different, either way I think it'd be very cool to have a champion with a scythe and a larger range than most melees but also shorter than all marksman's.

40 Comments

SrbLudFeb 26, 20174 votes

Fiddlesticks

Chembaron YamadaFeb 26, 20171 votes

Even if his scythe doesn't look like one... seems like he has a pickaxe or something. xD My opinion: they should give Fiddlesticks a VGU, making him a true scythe swinging melee champion with new dreadful kit!

DynikusFeb 26, 20173 votes

Fiddle uses sickles, scythes are bigger and used two handed.

Chembaron YamadaFeb 26, 20174 votes

True for his ingame model, but it is pretty old and I am sure they will give him a real two-handed scythe if he gets a VGU someday.

I mean, he uses a scythe in the trailer "A twist of fate".

AtinizerFeb 26, 20172 votes

Thresh Uses what are basically scythes on a chain so shrugs I don't really see the point.

RîvenFeb 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Uses what are basically scythes on a chain so shrugs I don't really see the point.

That's not really what I'm talking about though it's on a damn chain...I think it'd be cool to see a melee champion assassin type or something to sweep that shit around and burst people

AtinizerFeb 27, 20172 votes

Okay, but Thresh already fills the grim reaper archetype even if he is a support rather than an actual personification of death. The soul-stealer thing is covered so I don't think the design space is there for another grim reaper especially since Kindred is the more traditional sense of it anyways. If you want to find a different design type that uses a scythe then by all means go ahead but I just don't think there's a point to making a whole champion just because there isn't some kind of weapon. In my eyes that would extend to: "Why not have a champion with a zwei-hander instead of a giant broadsword? Why not have a champion that uses brass knuckles? Why not have a champion that uses an elephant goad as a weapon?" If we wanted a champ for every weapon it just wouldn't be unique and it would be pretty boring. Champions are made to fill design fantasies as well as introduce new and interesting mechanics that make things feel fresh and like a natural progression.

SociopathFriendFeb 27, 20172 votes

The thing is- probably the main things that would make a "scythe-user" truly accurate are already taken. Darius Has a pull that would be perfect for a scythe- but he has it. He's also got the AoE sweeps under lockdown. XinZhao A 3-hit combo that performs an unorthodox move at the end to debilitate the enemy- but he has it Even that mini-scythe on a chain is take already Thresh And the death thematic is already gone Kindred and we've already got champions that enslave plus manipulate souls Mordekaiser Hecarim Karthus

There's just been too much dancing around the thematic to properly pull it off imo. Maybe an assassin but that'd be weird since, again, the normal things people associate with scythes are taken.

FloRaider42Feb 26, 20171 votes

Problem is that a scythe thematically fits a time lord or death aspect, but those themes already are covered, and besides Fiddle has a sickle already.

DemonBoneJanglesFeb 26, 20171 votes

scythes also fit into a fantasy demon theme, or legendary warrior theme, honestly aside from scythes I think riot should broaden their category of weapon types that characters can use or are at least able to use.

all the champions have unique weapons theres no doubt, but even jarvan uses a modified polearm type weapon, numerous champions use swords and types of bows (vayne is currently the only crossbow user), depending on how you view him thresh uses a kusari-gama , and talon uses a fan dagger, regardless they should be open to more types of weapons and might even get some interesting ideas for tactical gameplay when champions with those weapons are implemented.

FloRaider42Feb 26, 20171 votes

I don't really think scythes fit fantasy demon as much as demonic axe or greatwords to be honest and legendary warriors usually wield swords or lances. I think LoL does a pretty good job at having weapon diversity. Which weapons are you talking about for example?

DemonBoneJanglesFeb 26, 20171 votes

its not so much the specific weapons as types of weapons, sure you can make a champion with a gun (jhin) or give them claws but unique weapons all behave differently (this is coming from someone who plays dungeons and dragons).

ok lets use the OP example fiddles uses a sickle for his in game model but in the cinematic he indeed has a scythe, this isn't a problem itself but it does show the difference between in game and cinematic weapons on champions.

so my suggestion is that if a champion were to be made using a scythe or whip, they would obviously have a much longer attack range than a normal melee champ but shorter than even the shortest ranged champ (urgot), thresh is a good example of this because back in S3 and S4 he could use both runnans and hydra despite having what appears to be a ranged attack. he is in fact the only champion to change his attack animation based on his targets distance from himself. with his standard whiplike attack at long range and a less enthusiastic chop at melee distance. a scythe in this instance would function in a sweeping motion and instead of affecting a single target would hit targets in a cone or half circle depending on if its a single or double bladed scythe (or a full circle if its a two headed scythe with a blade at each end) of course it would also very likely have its own challenges and requirements for whatever champion its attached to because of animations and abilities and whatnot

A champion is a exemplar of skill and power, hence why they make it to the league of legends, or to some the inner machinations of vel'koz's mind. so their weapons would be quite different from normal weapons of the standard types above and beyond even simple changes

FloRaider42Feb 26, 20171 votes

Which types of weapons are we talking then ?

DemonBoneJanglesFeb 28, 20171 votes

well you can break weapons into several types. Light blades, heavy blades (the category the scythe consequently falls under), axes, polearms, bows/crossbows, claws (think voldo's vajra weapon from soul caliber), Maces and club like weapons, double weapons (weapons with a damaging head on more than one end), Exotic weapons (weapons with unusual characteristics or functions well beyond their obvious purpose), and lastly picks and hammers.

All these types are categories of weapons that could be used when making a champion, and since this game is heavily fantasy influenced it would make sense to have weapons that might not make the most sense sometimes

FloRaider42Feb 28, 20172 votes

Unless you are Jax who doesn't care what kind of weapon he gets handed and still would kick ass, why would a character willingly choose a weapon that doesn't make sense? Wouldn't that just be holding them back?

ParallelityFeb 28, 20172 votes

Well, depends on what you think "makes sense" as long as someone is trained to use a weapon they can use it whether they're a giant or a yordle

DemonBoneJanglesMar 1, 20171 votes

most champions I would guess are not trained in a single weapon, they do however use the weapon that they are most comfortable with.

a great example of this could be as follows. Garen is a soldier/general/commander ect so even though he is a master of the greatsword he might have still had training with a bow or crossbow depending on how the damacian military trains their units, he would have had to start at the bottom since unlike jarvan 4 he isn't royalty but not a commoner so he might have been tutored in many weapons with the greatsword being the one he was found to be "most" skilled with.

see a bow like weapon wouldn't make sense for a guy decked in full platemail unless he had a reason to use that bow but that doesn't mean he is incompetent with it

hope that made sense to what I said above in the weapons that might not make sense area

RîvenFeb 27, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Requiem of Bones,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=7kgEHdcY,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-02-26T17:29:51.206+0000)

scythes also fit into a fantasy demon theme, or legendary warrior theme, honestly aside from scythes I think riot should broaden their category of weapon types that characters can use or are at least able to use.

all the champions have unique weapons theres no doubt, but even jarvan uses a modified polearm type weapon, numerous champions use swords and types of bows (vayne is currently the only crossbow user), depending on how you view him thresh uses a kusari-gama , and talon uses a fan dagger, regardless they should be open to more types of weapons and might even get some interesting ideas for tactical gameplay when champions with those weapons are implemented.

I agree 100% to this

ParallelityFeb 27, 20171 votes

twitch uses a crossbow too

DemonBoneJanglesFeb 28, 20171 votes

yes I realized that after the fact, I was drinking while I was typing so yeah was alittle tipsy and forgot he had one lol

SIDE NOTE: lets get some upvotes for this thread, its not mine but its something that's at least getting some attention Woo!!

GreenLoreFeb 26, 20171 votes

I feel like Scythes could also go well with supernatural beings.

FloRaider42Feb 26, 20171 votes

Well those mentioned are supernatural beings :D Which do you mean specifically ?

GreenLoreFeb 26, 20171 votes

Scythes fit pretty well with the supernatural in general.

I know that time and death are pretty much the first elements that come to mind(as chronos and the grim reaper use scythes),maybe plants(because scythes are used by farmers). Now that means that scythes actually go well with undeads and we have a whole nation of undeads,so that is an option.

However scythes also go well with themes like madness,tricksters,judgement and and erratic movements.

The judgement thematic especially makes it kinda fitting for celestials or god-like beings in general.

FloRaider42Feb 26, 20171 votes

I thought scythes are always assoziated with time and death, since their purpose is to reap wheat, which happens annually during harvest -> You reap/kill when the time for harvest/death has arrived.

Never heard of scythes being associated with undeads, madness, trickery, judgement or erratic movements, but I guess I learned something new today. Could you maybe link some of those examples? I got curious

Forged of MoonFeb 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I thought scythes are always assoziated with time and death, since their purpose is to reap wheat, which happens annually during harvest -> You reap/kill when the time for harvest/death has arrived.

Never heard of scythes being associated with undeads, madness, trickery, judgement or erratic movements, but I guess I learned something new today. Could you maybe link some of those examples? I got curious

Think the Grim Reaper

FloRaider42Feb 26, 20171 votes

I'm sorry if I got you confused, but I already said that scythes are associated with time and death = grim reaper (someone that brings death when it is time) Now I am asking for representations of other associations with scythes...

Forged of MoonFeb 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry if I got you confused, but I already said that scythes are associated with time and death = grim reaper (someone that brings death when it is time) Now I am asking for representations of other associations with scythes...

Didn't read what you said earlier.

Another example; http://castleage.wikia.com/wiki/Aspect_of_Death

Edit:

Also, Soul Eater, the anime.

FloRaider42Feb 26, 20171 votes

But an Aspect of Death and Shibusen students under Shinigami still falls under Death or am I missing something there?

GreenLoreFeb 26, 20171 votes

Its not really about what people associate scythes,but more about what goes well with scythes.

Judgement for example is a theme that goes well with scythes,because scythes are associated with death,so giving it someone who judges if people are allowed to live or die is fitting.

FloRaider42Feb 26, 20171 votes

Isn't what you associate with something usually also something that goes well with it though? I mean judgement is only a thematic because it's part of the death theme, which we already discussed. I feel like all associations boil down to those two aspects in a way...

GreenLoreFeb 27, 20171 votes

They are more like extensions of these themes.

For example,just because we have death itself,doesn't mean we covered all thematics that are associated with death;).

FloRaider42Feb 27, 20171 votes

I think we got a lot of the aspects of death covered by champions, intoducing another without steppin into an already covered territory sounds hard. Why not focus on another theme and just make a Reaper Darius skin instead?

GreenLoreFeb 27, 20171 votes

Well if skins would satisfy the need for a scythe champ,then we wouldn't need one as we have reaper hecarim already.

And in general,the scythe doesn't have to be the center of the champion thematic. I mean Sejuani is a flail user,but is that core to her thematic?No her themes are heavy cavalry/warmonger,the flail just goes well with these themes.

For example they could make a scythe wielding ghoul champ,which would fit as ghouls eat corpses,thus are linked to both death and even to harvesting to some extend.

FloRaider42Feb 27, 20171 votes

Weapons are hardly ever the defining aspect of a champion and only ever serve to highlight their main theme, but the main theme of death and time already have been done making a scythe kinda redundant. Yorick already has ghouls btw

GreenLoreFeb 27, 20171 votes

Yeah,but Yorick himself isn't a ghoul(also they are called mistwalkers now),I mean we have taliyah,an earth mage, and Malphite,an earth elemental,so a ghoul champ would easily be still possible. Heck in general undeads go well with scythes,because every undead is strongly related to death.

Also like I said,there are different aspects that relate to death,time,etc.that can easily be small parts of a character and that would still go well with scythes. A mad or frenzied champion can go well with a scythe regardless what their powers actually are.

CancerBasedGodFeb 26, 20171 votes

Why not just make a Yorick reaper skin?

Forged of MoonFeb 26, 20171 votes

I have actually messed around with making an ice/scythe champion, but she is my OC.

I like the idea in itself, though

Forged of MoonFeb 26, 20171 votes

Another note;

I think the reason the Grim Reaper is one of the most prevalent is because it is present in most, if not all cultures. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_(personification)

ShriekMaulerFeb 28, 20171 votes

i'd agree for this. it'd be cool if they had like a knock back/disengage mechanic that allowed them to push back enemies too close and swipe them with the scythe.