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4 years since last Cassiopeia skin – Riot, comeon...

OH CHEEKY··20 votes·1,964 views

Cassiopeia, just like Yorick/Urgot etc., hasn’t had a skin for several years while skins are churned out for the more popular champions. I understand you're focussing on the majority but as you've made a game with 100+ champions surely you want them all to be played not just the ones that look sexy AF.

You’re a company who encourages diversity – sticking new skins onto the same old champions is hardly encouraging people to play other stuff and is a contributing factor to why some people don’t play these champs as much– they just look ugly even though they have great mechanics and are really enjoyable.

The people who play these champions have been waiting quite literally YEARS for something new – think about how happy you will make them and how many of these people will buy them – instead of the, “meh, I don’t really need a 7th skin for Ahri/GP/Lux/Ezreal etc.”

Any of Riot’s skin designer team who read this – have a think about how refreshing it would be to work on skins for champions who’ve not had one for years and the creative designs you could come up with- pitch this to your boss please!

38 Comments

OH CHEEKY2 votes

Bump bump bump... rioters please read

zlumpy2 votes

Some characters don't recieve skins because riot has said it's too much work to make new ones for them. Zac and zyra come to mind. Thats a pretty flimsy excuse to not make skins for them imo.

As far as skin ideas go thats gotta be easy. All they gotta do is go to the concepts and ideas thread section. The player base yives them tons 9f legit good ideas.

Still waiting on the whacky waving arm inflatable tube man illaoi!

OH CHEEKY1 votes

+1, completely agree with you and those ideas would also be free to the business!

I am sure they would be able to justify spending some of their revenue on making extra hires into these teams – which will in-turn bring in more money for them as a business. The company also apparently has one of the best cultures, packages etc. so I am sure that they would be able to.

That’s a very niche idea but I like it!

tman30002 votes

cass is such a hard champion to make skins for, but riot can do it.

Chaos6891 votes

#Rengar

Three skins, one of which is unavailable.

OH CHEEKY1 votes

And yeah rengar also has like no skins - but at least his last one was 1 year 9 months ago instead of 4 years! Def need more for this champ i agree :-)

Chaos6891 votes

Two great skins, on unavailable skin which is awful, and most people dislike on or the other of his skins.

OH CHEEKY1 votes

I actually really like nighthunter and quite like headhunter, i don't think i've ever seen SSW in game but definitely think none of them are flashy skins. I think a project rengar skin would be good, but thats more because i think the project skins in general are very good - so yes i'd like to see a new skin on him BUT i would like riot to make another line of skins like the PROJECT line. Those skins are excellent, i also really like the program and Mecha line, they are lovely designs and you feel like a boss when you are using one. Riot's skin team need more budget to just push these out - either skins in those lines or just new variety, the blood moon new ones are a step in the right direction but its just so slow. Pushing out more options within each of these lines would be a great opportunity for them to please a lot of players and make a lot of money.

Chaos6891 votes

What about Bargain Hunter or Project Rengar?

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

Because Garen and Azir are top teir, highly popular champions. Remember when Aatrox got a Seahunter skin? You probably don't, because few people play Aatrox. Still, Riot gave him a skin.

OH CHEEKY2 votes

Not sure what your point is + what you are trying to say? Are you agreeing with me and giving more examples or what?

Lexyy1 votes

I am sick of Ahri, Ezreal and Lux getting skin so often. God damn. I hope Lux doesnt get new one in a loooooong time.

MrHaZeYo1 votes

pfft Ahri needs about 6 more skins.

Ahri is love, Ahri is life.

FloRaider421 votes

Do you seriously believe skins are created like this: "We really should make a new skin for Garen, Azir and Vi" Instead of: "Hey it's chinese new year, which champions would look good in a chinese warlord skin?"

OH CHEEKY4 votes

I think you've misunderstood my post, I am saying some champions have received much less skin attention (which is not an opinion, this is objective) than other champions and that this would be great to change/draw attention to. Urgot is currently coming up to the 5 year mark without a new skin!

The example/argument you’ve made is flawed – obviously, there are different themes and different champions fit different themes better than others do. However, if you think that is the entirety of how the decision making process works for developing new skins for league then you are a bit naiive...

Obviously skins will be specifically produced for the more popular champions – that’s a no brainer, it will please a greater volume or players, provide meta champions with new skins – that’s great for business!

If anything, I think yes that sort of decision making SHOULD be followed more – “we really should make a new skin for XYZ”, I think it would make a lot of Riot’s loyal player base very happy.

Apologies if the wording of my post has caused any confusion for you.

FloRaider421 votes

Ignoring champions that don't get a skin, because of future reworks (Galio, Urgot etc.), most champions that didn't recieve skins for longer times are the more distinct looking champions (Skarner, Alistar, Cass, Viktor, Zyra, Illaoi etc.), as it is much easier to create skins for champions that work well with multiple themes (prime example would be annie). Which obviously leads to more skins, since those champions manage to fit into more skin lines. (popularity also plays a role yes, if it didn't Riot would be charity instead of a business)

But forcing the design team to "make skin for X", wouldn't lead to good skins. As collecting ideas is a process that takes time and works easier when you don't have any restrictions. Personally I'd rather wait for Riot to find a theme that is a perfect match for champion X, instead of just making a skin for a quota. Maybe you have a different opinion on this and that's why my comment came off as misunderstanding.

OH CHEEKY2 votes

Ok so you’re saying they produce certain skins for certain champions because its easier to do – ok yeah that’s probably part of it but it doesn’t change my post or the situation. It may be ‘harder’ to think of a certain skin design for a certain champion, but that’s not a compelling argument to neglect a champions skins for multiple years... just means more work/planning/brainstorming or whatever skin designers do in preparation to come up with a good skin.

I didn’t say ‘force a team to make a skin for x’, obviously I’m not suggesting we start up some sort of conscripted service for riot’s design team where they must meet this quota and churn out skins for the sake of it!

It’s great that you are more patient than me, one of my many flaws, but 4 years+ waiting is a ridiculously long time to wait for the “perfect match”. This post is just to try make sure those champions aren’t forgotten utterly when it comes to new idea time.

FloRaider421 votes

just means more work/planning/brainstorming or whatever skin designers do in preparation to come up with a good skin.

The problem about creative work is that put in X more time doesn't mean you get Y more results. Thinking of a skin or champion starts with an idea and then lots of reworking and tuning, but if you don't have an idea you can't start working.

I think a problem is that popular champions are on the minds of the designer more often, because you see them much more often (LCS, cosplay, fanart etc.) so I guess your post could help in bringing it back to their attention. Another problem is that with 133 champions any theme you can think of that would work with Cass might work better with another champion. Don't know if in that case they should make the Cass skin...

Edit: Heard Zac as another problematic champion, but try to think of a Zac skin that isn't just a recolor and you will realize why he is one.

OH CHEEKY2 votes

Very valid point.

A different user posted suggesting they trawling through the suggestions players have provided. I myself would like to see some sort of programme/mech/robot cassio idea and i've not spent any time thinking about what could work. I do think that this problem could be fixed by just hiring more into that team if its a limited resource.

Zac - i've just dont a quick google and people have made concept art for him - flying spaghetti monster zac and marshmallow zac. Which both sound awesome to me but yeah agree he is hard to think of. You don't necessarily have to make a skin that follows a theme, there are so many good ideas out there.

FloRaider421 votes

My problem with most of these suggestions is that same skin theme would go much better with another champion. Should Riot still make the Cass skin then or make the X skin that would be better? Dunno if adding more members would actually solve things, as too many cooks spoil the broth

don't need to make a skin that follows a theme, there are so many good ideas out there.

Then how are you gonna call the skin when it has no theme ? xD Personally the only skin idea of Zac I like is Debonair (where he finally gets his suit) the others feel really bland.

Honestly looking at Cass skins, apart from desperado (which turns her into a rattlesnake) all her skins are just different interpretations of the snake lady in different cultures (chinese white snake legend, Greek Medusa and Siren), it kinda feels like Cass is to unique for her own good as most themes just don't fit her that well.

OH CHEEKY2 votes

It might go better on a another champ sure - but then just do both and then BAM you have a new 'theme' or suck it up and make a skin for the champion that actually NEEDS a new skin even if its not the optimum pick. I feel if a champ hasnt had a skin for that long it takes priority even if its slightly not as good than if it was on another champion, but i think you feel the other way on this.

Disagree, its insane to suggest the entire skin team will work together on every single skin as a group so too many minds will ruin it. There will be skin designers who build these skins solo or in a small team = if you hire extra designers they can be given there own creative space/independence to work on a new skin. If you have 100 designers working on the same thing sure, but i cannot think for a second that's the way their design team works as it would just be so inefficient.

How do you mean? Coming up with the name of a unique skin? I honestly think no player who has been waiting this long for a skin even cares at this stage if they have to play with a skin called 'King of the noobs X' if they get a nice looking new skin! ;-)

Yeah they are, so theres room for a creative skin designer to really make a massive impact with an awesome idea- this is an opportunity. Even updating the textures would be SOMETHING - like with jade fang even turning people stunned into jade, there's honestly so much they COULD do, they just need to open their eyes and turn the attention to her.

FloRaider421 votes

Problem is that Riot only releases a handful of skins at a time, which means that the Cass skin would most likely replace another skin instead of being added as a bonus. But yeah four years is quite long so they definetly should show some love for her. Honestly I'm kinda split there...

Not really what I said: I imagine that most aspects are seperated (sfx, textures, model changes) so if you want to increase the teams size, you have to make an addition to every subgroup and you have to guarentee that there is enough work for them for the next years. Not really as easy as you might think.

You said that you can make skins without themes, which sounded absurd since theme is what seperates the skin from her default look. Warring Kingdom Azir gives Azir a Chinese Warlord theme for example.

Skin updates usually only come with a VGU since you basically spend money and gain nothing from it. Well let's hope for that awesome idea then

OH CHEEKY1 votes

They do indeed release just a few skins at a time - so having a larger team working on new skins would mean more released at once (hypothetically) 😉

I also feel your terminology there highlights part of the problem - this is being seen as a 'bonus' rather than fairly looking after all the champions in league overall.

With the amount of money riot make as a company - even if they make a loss on 10 new designers (which wouldn't happen as they would make crazy revenue off releasing skins for champs waiting for them), it would be worth it to retain playerbase and make them happy instead of neglecting further and (eventually) making people change games.

What i mean regarding themes is you don't need to limit your options to "oh lets make pool party yorick and follow that theme" - start a new chain of skin themes, or make a unique skin - pretty much all the legendaries don't follow a theme of type of skin, so why does a new skin for these champions need to conform to whats been done before? E.g. those zac skin ideas don't follow a skin theme - if riot are struggling for ideas to that extent and its because they want champions to conform to group of themes- that's a laughable excuse for neglecting specific champ skins for so long.

P.S. Suspected it from previous posts, but are you in someway working in the design space?

FloRaider421 votes

When I talk about themes I talk about the idea that is represented throughout the work and not skinlines. Those Zac skins follow themes as well (Marshmellow Zac has a Mashmellow theme etc.) and so does Elementalist Lux (Avatar theme). Sry if I confuse you with my terminology there, sometimes I just assume people know the jargon I use :I

The biggest problem is Cass compability with themes (pls read text above), because honestly what can you do with a champion that is half snake? I'm actually kinda worried Riot is afraid of making a cass skin in fear of backlash "we waited four years for this" I mean would you be okay with a Programm/Elderwood/Blood Moon/Infernal Skin for her ?

P.S. Not professionally, why?

OH CHEEKY1 votes

Well just make any snake related skin lol - or just copy existing ones and apply to her - like the bloodfury renek skin but on her would look awesome. Even saw a guy mention some sort of dragon-themed snake skin - that would be sweet.

Any of those skins I would actually LOVE. I think its been so long now that people waiting for skins on champs like cass, swain, urgot etc etc etc are past the point where they would criticise for a bad skin - they'be been disappointed for so long that anything would go down well.

Just your lingo/way of looking at things is different from normal player base so got that feeling.

FloRaider421 votes

Well if people agree with you on that then I don't see a reason for Riot not to make a Cass skin in fear of backlash. Considering that they recently fulfilled a lot of fan requests (BM diana, sandbox mode etc.) I hope they will soon get to those forgotten champions.

Wow great observation skills there xD

SOLOQSUPERHERO2 votes

Azir totally was a great candidate for the Chinese Warlord skin. The Vi skin also was pretty directly taken from a concept posted on the boards.

OH CHEEKY1 votes

Bump bump bump... a chain with rational discussion without abuse and an angry message, might be worth reading riot!

Zane Zephyr1 votes

Swain Rumble Viktor

OH CHEEKY1 votes

Yup 3 more champion examples with swain coming up to the 5 year mark as well!

Bobo1131 votes

However, the fact that they made animation changes to her tail this patch means they might be trying to implement new content.

VęX1 votes

Which also made it harder for people to do reverse ult. After faker did it in LCS they probably wanted to remove it. Praying for the best tho

OH CHEEKY2 votes

Actually, it seems that they have deliberately removed it (and not made an announcement on this) theres a couple of cass mains who have posted saying they've tried for ages on sandbox and cant do it anymore, whether this is just the reversed animation or the mechanic where the ult no longer goes in the direction you flash i am not sure.

VęX1 votes

exactly...

OH CHEEKY1 votes

I hope so!

OH CHEEKY1 votes

BUMP, still waiting for an update or riot employee to offer some wisdom.

P.S. Pleased to see Zyra has a new skin at long last and it looks great!

CobaltTheMadMage1 votes

[{quoted}](name=OH CHEEKY,realm=EUW,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=2pHTXTap,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-04-10T14:24:02.509+0000)

BUMP, still waiting for an update or riot employee to offer some wisdom.

P.S. Pleased to see Zyra has a new skin at long last and it looks great!

Riot generally doesn't bother with these unless you get a lot of upvotes and/or invoke a Rioter by name.

CobaltTheMadMage1 votes

And now I could see her being in that Chemtech line I thought of (started with Vel'Koz) where it looks like her half-snake nature is due to Zaunite augmentation like Warwick instead of a Shuriman curse.

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