Riot, do you care anymore?

RedFøx·Jan 5, 2015·6 votes·1,560 views

I'm beginning to feel more and more like Riot has just become a big, cold, unfeeling machine that doesn't care about its players anymore. After having my thread deleted multiple times, trying to voice a real concern of mine. Me, a player that has invested hundreds of dollars and countless hours into this game. One who loves the game, the community and the service Riot provides (provided?) to the players. I feel like Riot doesn't care about us anymore. The honeymoon is over. It isn't about us anymore. Its about making cool enough stuff, to keep us buy RP so that we can fund the pro tournaments, and sweeping under the rug, things that they don't deem worthy of their time, i.e. our concerns. The players concerns. The players that love and miss the Riot that once loved us. The Riot that stole us away from Dota2 and HoN and even games like WoW and D3. Riot that gave us a game that quickly became one of, if not, THE greatest game of our time. What happened Riot? Do you truly care about what we have to say? Our suggestions? Players, do how do you feel?

16 Comments

DaenJan 5, 20154 votes

I think it's less about being a big, cold, unfeeling machine and more along the lines of Riot getting massively outscaled by the community and not being prepared for it. In the early days of Season 1, the ratio between Riot and the community was a lot smaller. The game wasn't anywhere near as insanely huge as it is now, and it seems like the community management systems didn't scale up with the huge explosion of League of Legends' popularity.

Keep in mind, assuming 1,500 Rioters and 70,000,000 people in the community, the current ratio is roughly 1:46,667 (Rioter:player). That's a ton of players per Rioter on average, and it would seem that the majority of Rioters don't communicate externally in an official capacity.

Hyrum GraffJan 6, 20152 votes

{quoted}

it would seem that the majority of Rioters don't communicate externally in an official capacity.

This is the issue, IMO. If, as a company, you're not going to hire a community manager, whose job is soley to interact with the community, you need to have a company policy of communication. While I love the concept that we can talk directly to devs, it seems like there are so many who we can't talk to, because they're absent from Boards or elsewhere.

Sir ArmaMalumJan 6, 20152 votes

I agree wholeheartedly. While, yes, the idea of "killing the community manager" and breaking the barriers of dev player worked very well while it was smaller we've reached a point of saturation where no matter how much reds like IS, Sweet, Baconhawk, Phreak and anyone else talk on any medium there will be players who feel left out. As such you need a way to address the community as a whole instead of just individuals, and CM's would be an answer to that. They would (hopefully) ask the right questions internally to get a bearing of the company's direction and ideas and be able to keep the community informed enough to be at least more satisfied than they currently are. Now, the fear of this de-incetivizing reds to speak to players is still valid with this, but at the same time I personally feel having CM's will not change who wants top talk to to players and who doesn't.

However, the biggest con to this would be the danger of contradiction. What happens if a CM or another Red says conflicting information? Would there be an internal argument? Who was right (from the community standpoint)? How do they stay on the same page? It would, at least require an extra step or two, which would definitely dissuade the lighter talkers from returning. pros/cons....eh

Hyrum GraffJan 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir ArmaMalum,realm=NA,application-id=bzRrPGQO,discussion-id=ZMKK6TTJ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-01-06T08:00:42.140+0000)

I agree wholeheartedly. While, yes, the idea of "killing the community manager" and breaking the barriers of dev player worked very well while it was smaller we've reached a point of saturation where no matter how much reds like IS, Sweet, Baconhawk, Phreak and anyone else talk on any medium there will be players who feel left out. As such you need a way to address the community as a whole instead of just individuals, and CM's would be an answer to that.

I'm not sure I agree with you here. Sweet, IS, Baconhawk, Phreak, etc. How many Rioters would you say post regularly on the forums? 15? 30? 50? 100? Now, how many Riot employees are there? I know they're not all game devs, but there's more to running a gaming company than the actual developers, and I, for one, would be interested in talking with everybody. Rather, I think the problem is that they don't have an express policy of "Rioters should communicate online." They're given training and encouraged to jump in (though the training seems to, amongst other things, instill fear of making promises, which doesn't help encourage Rioters to join in discussion), but there's no express policy of "you should be interacting with players." I understand the argument that they don't want to force devs into interaction, but as the self-proclaimed most player-focused gaming company, whether a dev is willing to interact with the community should be a job qualification. Riot can also continue to produce dev blogs, which address the community as a whole without requiring a CM.

They would (hopefully) ask the right questions internally to get a bearing of the company's direction and ideas and be able to keep the community informed enough to be at least more satisfied than they currently are. Now, the fear of this de-incetivizing reds to speak to players is still valid with this, but at the same time I personally feel having CM's will not change who wants top talk to to players and who doesn't.

However, the biggest con to this would be the danger of contradiction. What happens if a CM or another Red says conflicting information? Would there be an internal argument? Who was right (from the community standpoint)? How do they stay on the same page? It would, at least require an extra step or two, which would definitely dissuade the lighter talkers from returning. pros/cons....eh

These things are the reasons why I don't think Riot should have traditional CMs. However, you bring up a very important point: asking the right questions internally. Or, rephrased, figuring out what the community wants to hear about. These are things that a Riot Community Manager (RCM) can do. However, they don't need to actually answer those questions themselves.

I see RCMs as people who are:

Members of the community. They're just out and about on the forums, maybe not on the red tracker, just interacting, reading everything, and getting a sense of the pulse of the community.
They know everybody at Riot. Okay, not everybody, but when the community has a question, they know who should answer it.
They connect the people who should be answering questions, with the questions that should be answered, without actually answering themselves. benefits of this system:
- RCMs act as a force to get people to post who otherwise wouldn't
- Now there's a dedicated person (people) who's JOB is to be in touch with the community.
- RCMs can spend the time to find threads that are worthy of response but not super popular.

DaenJan 6, 20151 votes

Well said. One quick thing that you brought up:

However, the biggest con to this would be the danger of contradiction. What happens if a CM or another Red says conflicting information?

To my knowledge, this actually happens a bit already. It's not much of a con assuming two factors:

Consistent communication - The more communication there is, the less pressure the community puts on each individual message.
Tactful application - If it's found that provided information is inaccurate, an expert can provide correct information under the pretense of an update or change to the released information.

Basically, I don't really see this as much of a con. It's impossible for all information to be 100% accurate, and (imo) significantly raising communication effectiveness for a slight reduction in absolute accuracy would likely be worth it.

DaenJan 6, 20151 votes

If, as a company, you're not going to hire a community manager, whose job is soley to interact with the community, you need to have a company policy of communication.

To my knowledge, Riot does have a company policy of communication. I can't pretend to know anything about the internals of the company, but it's interesting that despite this policy there are a lot of discussions that are really difficult to have.

Hyrum GraffJan 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

To my knowledge, Riot does have a company policy of communication. I can't pretend to know anything about the internals of the company, but it's interesting that despite this policy there are a lot of discussions that are really difficult to have.

Well, they have a "we encourage you to participate, but we don't require it." I'm suggesting that they do require participation in the community.

DaenJan 6, 20151 votes

Eh, that's a difficult thing to enforce and might end up feeling like a chore for Rioters. To me, the main issue is that there doesn't appear to be anyone in the company with the express purpose of providing external communications. For a position like that, you can require posting since it's essentially their job. For a software engineer or a systems designer, not so much. They are busy with other things, and communication with the community basically functions as a diversion from that work.

Hyrum GraffJan 6, 20151 votes

I'll preface the rest of this with, I'm mostly just ideating here -- I haven't thought through any of this.

{quoted}

Eh, that's a difficult thing to enforce and might end up feeling like a chore for Rioters. To me, the main issue is that there doesn't appear to be anyone in the company with the express purpose of providing external communications. For a position like that, you can require posting since it's essentially their job. For a software engineer or a systems designer, not so much. They are busy with other things, and communication with the community basically functions as a diversion from that work.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask even a software or systems engineer to take an hour of their time per week to sit down and talk about what they do.

Heck, do it like this: Make a dedicated Board called "Rioter AMAs." Only Rioters can post threads there, though anyone can comment. In the OP, they give a general job description, and talk very briefly about what they're working on right now. Open the AMA for an hour, then the Rioter goes back to doing whatever they do.

disregardableJan 5, 20153 votes

I'd argue that they never cared, and it was always about expanding the game. When they were small, the best way to do this was to be generous and personal to players. When they became a household name, the best way to do it was to be big, flashy, and impersonal.

RedFøxJan 5, 20152 votes

Both of those comments are pretty valid. And thanks for your opinions. But, Daen, remember that Riot is a business, and that mitigating the valid concerns of players or working on making customer service a priority, hasn't happened, (or at least not apparently). Which is why there is so much unrest among the Riot community. Have you ever read 1984? In the book, there's a chute, made for comments and ideas, that the workers can send to Big Brother to be reviewed and considered for future improvements. The chute leads to an incinerator. I think that all too often, players feel like their concerns go into the proverbial chute, and straight to the incinerator, you know? And don't get me wrong, I'm not raging or disgruntled. I'm just disliking the way I feel; invisible. And I'm frankly leaning more toward going back to Dota2. Maybe if more players do, Dota2 will influx with a larger community of old LoL players and Dota2 will actually become fun. One can dream...

Or Riot can see this not as a bunch of nerds whining online, but as its own customers concerned with the service (or lack there of) being provided to them and consider them as valued customers. Unless Riot is too big now, and as many now suspect, don't care anymore.

DaenJan 5, 20152 votes

remember that Riot is a business, and that mitigating the valid concerns of players or working on making customer service a priority, hasn't happened, (or at least not apparently).

I agree, and I talk about this a lot both on the Boards and with friends of mine. There's a weird disconnect between Riot's communication policies and what the community desires out of those policies, and it seems like it's incredibly difficult to reach the communications teams within Riot to discuss these issues. This might be incorrect, but it seems to me that the Communications team is one of the most difficult within Riot to get a hold of. Bit ironic.

I think that all too often, players feel like their concerns go into the proverbial chute, and straight to the incinerator, you know?

Yes. Firsthand, I know that feeling. I'm just not sure how to really get dialogue going on the subject any more, as it's been something the community has passionately discussed for years without any real breakthroughs or deep conversations.

I'm just disliking the way I feel; invisible.

Agreed, and this one is near and dear to my heart. I am very active on all forums I have ever felt I wanted to use, and the design philosophy on the Boards of making the person almost invisible in favor of the content bothers me. I understand the mentality; content should be the main focus on a platform dedicated to communication, I get that. However, completely devaluing the person posting that content really doesn't make people feel as though they have a home or any real investment in the community.

I think the overarching problem is what I just mentioned above; investment. There are very few tools available to us that allow the community to really get invested in, well, the community. Not only does it make it difficult for us to interact with each other and create bonds, but it also makes it harder for Riot to parse through what is being said and get to the heart of issues.

CzechErfaceJan 9, 20151 votes

OP, go work support for a game with as many players as LoL and tell me how many you get through in a day.

RedFøxJan 9, 20151 votes

Well, if my company not managed well, especially in this sort of area, i would be frustrated. if its understaffed all they need to do is higher more people. its not like they dont have the money. LOL

NarogJan 10, 20151 votes

Last year Riot made an amazing Season 4 bringing more money to supports and junglers they increase the amount of viable champions too , This year Crabs, lazers , colorful smites and less viable champions on the jungle , they call it strategic diversity compare to last year were riot have much more clear and specific goals . RIot seem to have lost sense of what really going on in the game going from amazing balance of gold income to a crab and multi color smite is a massive change of objective. I feel that Riot is separate in way to many different teams that have little to none communication making riot loss what made it special and what separated them from other companies . am also extremely unhappy with some personality changes in champions like Sion that used to be a fun arnie champion and Alistar used to have more of a personality than the new angry generic Minotaur he is in the update, new Alistar looks like any other Minotaur that i seen in other games.