LoL has been out since October 27, 2009 and no one likes the banning system still

Fiddlemediddles·Nov 2, 2015·3 votes·1,293 views

You'd think it would have been improved in SIX YEARS. But I read so many posts about how people hate the system. GG Riot, GG

41 Comments

EvilDustManNov 2, 20158 votes

There are two fallacies in this.

First: People on forums are actually 'the vocal minority'. That is to say, they are the people who have a strong opinion and feel they need to share it. I've seen about 10 threads about being banned in the last week? And maybe 3-5 other users post about being unhappy about the system? There's a couple threads, but it's not enough to be called 'a public outcry'. These few people are the people who are either upset that cannot flame openly or upset they got banned. 15 people in one week over the TWENTY. SEVEN. MILLION. USERS. 27,000,000. These people on the forums aren't even the 1% of the populus. They are closer to the 0.01%. The people who complain about the bans are 0.0001%

Second: They were banned, of course they hate the system.

RueianNov 2, 20152 votes

The system does have some major flaws in stifling criticism.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The system does have some major flaws in stifling criticism

How so?

RueianNov 2, 20152 votes

The system is fundamentally flawed in the fact that the behavior is always compared to real life equivalents that are not at all equivalent. People are called toxic and threatened with reports and in some (rare) cases punished not only for destructive comments but for neutral and even constructive comments. This does not drive strangers closer, the introduction of the concept of 'toxicity' has actually torn apart most forms of teamwork in games between randoms. So many comments of unsatisfying and overall hostile games are everywhere, not just in the forums, not just on reddit. People are allowed to not care about the game and effectively ruin it for you without any consequence.

The system and public opinion of the game just leads to people not wanting to play the game, and if they do play they fear making any comment that isn't blatantly positive. You aren't allowed to make a comment on anything anyone does that you think is wrong. Champions in non standard roles, non standard builds, making bad calls/choices, not warding, etc. Anything you can think to complain about is effectively against the Summoner's Code to comment on. You just have to be held hostage by your teammates till the game is over and hope you never see them again. You cant say 'anything' or you are toxic and are threatened/reported.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The system is fundamentally flawed in the fact that the behavior is always compared to real life equivalents that are not at all equivalent. People are called toxic and threatened with reports and in some (rare) cases punished not only for destructive comments but for neutral and even constructive comments. This does not drive strangers closer, the introduction of the concept of 'toxicity' has actually torn apart most forms of teamwork in games between randoms. So many comments of unsatisfying and overall hostile games are everywhere, not just in the forums, not just on reddit. People are allowed to not care about the game and effectively ruin it for you without any consequence.

The system and public opinion of the game just leads to people not wanting to play the game, and if they do play they fear making any comment that isn't blatantly positive. You aren't allowed to make a comment on anything anyone does that you think is wrong. Champions in non standard roles, non standard builds, making bad calls/choices, not warding, etc. Anything you can think to complain about is effectively against the Summoner's Code to comment on. You just have to be held hostage by your teammates till the game is over and hope you never see them again. You cant say 'anything' or you are toxic and are threatened/reported.

The meta thing is up for debate, the other things are not. Now, people do not take constructive criticism to heart, that's true. But it's always the better alternative to being inflammatory. The other parts, well, you know what, I just don't believe you. You want the system to be against you, but it's not. Learn to be excellent.

Unward49Nov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The meta thing is up for debate, the other things are not. Now, people do not take constructive criticism to heart, that's true. But it's always the better alternative to being inflammatory. The other parts, well, you know what, I just don't believe you. You want the system to be against you, but it's not. Learn to be excellent.

You compare me to a bat man villain, but what you espouse would have us going around with creepy joker grins plastered on our faces all the time.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You compare me to a bat man villain, but what you espouse would have us going around with creepy joker grins plastered on our faces all the time.

THE REVENGER, lurking in the alleyway, waiting to post in a thread!

Uh, no. I mean, if you think making an effort to be positive or at least let things go is the same as going through life with a big happy face mask on, I'm actually kind of sorry that your life is so depressing.

I hope things get better for you.

Unward49Nov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

THE REVENGER, lurking in the alleyway, waiting to post in a thread!

Uh, no. I mean, if you think making an effort to be positive or at least let things go is the same as going through life with a big happy face mask on, I'm actually kind of sorry that your life is so depressing.

I hope things get better for you.

Pretty sure you're basically a troll at this point, but never mind.

Maybe this is what you don't understand.

I have never had the thought "They shouldn't be allowed to say this". When I hear people state this opinion, on whatever topic, the idea that there ought to be a rule that says you can't say x, no matter WHAT x happens to be, I immediately dismiss them as ignorant and intellectually bankrupt.

That is what the report system is. It is a set of rules of things you cannot say. It is ignorant and intellectually bankrupt. I have no desire to support a system that is both of those things. Not only that, but the specifics of what it is you are and are not allowed to say are so vague and obfuscated that most people after having been reported for one thing are just afraid to say ANYTHING AT ALL for fear of offending Big Brother Rito's type-police.

THAT is what I take issue with.

It is not a desire to simply flame and insult and bully and harass anyone I feel like any time I want, it is because it stifles the very thing it was meant to encourage. I cannot properly work as a team if I am not allowed to risk offending my team mates. I can work just fine as an individual by ignoring my team, but if I'm to work as a team, they need to know what I think. That might be offensive to them, the way I choose to communicate it might be offensive, but if I need to worry about whether I will be reported for saying it, then I will not say anything.

Probably there are many people who are OK with this. They don't take the initiative in games to be the leader, they simply bumblefuck around and maybe they win and maybe they don't. But there are a good percentage of us who CANNOT play that way. It isn't FUN to play that way. It isn't satisfying. It isn't any of the things that make it worth our time to play a video game in the first place.

It is censorship in it's basest ugliest form, it offends me right to my moral core. And it also makes the game less fun to play.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted} EDITTED It is censorship in it's basest ugliest form, it offends me right to my moral core. And it also makes the game less fun to play.

I showed this one to my friends, they thought it was pretty hilarious. Where do you rank this with regards to the recent cartoonists getting murdered?

Unward49Nov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I showed this one to my friends, they thought it was pretty hilarious. Where do you rank this with regards to the recent cartoonists getting murdered?

Troll confirmed.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Troll confirmed.

You are the one who used the phrase 'BASEST UGLIEST FORM', man.

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

Not really the meta thing is not a debate. Players don't make the meta, game state makes the meta. Game mode (normal/ranked aswell as solo/premade) however does change how serious each player should take the game. Playing a normal game in solo queue means you should be respectful to the rest of your team and play seriously. The only time you shouldn't play seriously is if you have the agreement with your team, otherwise you are ruining the game for everyone.

Even if you aren't being destructive. You could simply ask a person to ward more, or to group, or to not dive towers, etc., people will get pissy, tell you to shut up, call you toxic, call for reports. It is what this community has devolved into.

The system is against everyone that isn't in a constant premade.

And 'learn to be excellent' makes no sense.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Even if you aren't being destructive. You could simply ask a person to ward more, or to group, or to not dive towers, etc., people will get pissy, tell you to shut up, call you toxic, call for reports. It is what this community has devolved into.

The system is against everyone that isn't in a constant premade.

People keep saying THIS. I've never seen it. And if they report you, it won't do anything, so what's your point?

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

Play ranked, its much more prominent. With the system automated it is more likely to have false positives. If there are any of games being actually toxic, they use that as justification for punishment. Players that are borderline or close to it are effectively rolling the dice that they dont have a few bad games followed by a bunch of false reports. This system boasts promoting Reform, but the players trying to reform are hurt the most.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Play ranked, its much more prominent. With the system automated it is more likely to have false positives. If there are any of games being actually toxic, they use that as justification for punishment. Players that are borderline or close to it are effectively rolling the dice that they dont have a few bad games followed by a bunch of false reports. This system boasts promoting Reform, but the players trying to reform are hurt the most.

And there's the false positive argument. It's just like a good ol' fashioned LoL thread, where people cry 'false positive'. I missed those. I have my bingo card out, I need one more square for bingo, but I'm not saying what it is.

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

You can't ignore the truth. The more automation the more mistakes can happen. You are like everyone else in the fact that you dont care for those who try to reform but fail. Try bringing counter arguments instead

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You can't ignore the truth. The more automation the more mistakes can happen. You are like everyone else in the fact that you dont care for those who try to reform but fail.

No, no, I already have conspiracy nut on my card.

Yea, and that's why there's human checking on stuff like bans. The rate is false positive was... 1 out of 1000? I'd need riot confirmation. High, but that's why there's still a human involved.

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

They check a handful of punishments, and only review permanent bans. You yourself say that there are so many players, even if only 5% of the entire community gets punished that is a lot of punishments that happen and only a handful are checked for consistency. The non-vocal majority wont contest a punishment so that is a lost statistic.

And when they become complacent with their system and check even less? Automation can not understand context, intent, etc. It only understands if a person was or wasn't reported.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

They check a handful of punishments, and only review permanent bans. You yourself say that there are so many players, even if only 5% of the entire community gets punished that is a lot of punishments that happen and only a handful are checked for consistency. The non-vocal majority wont contest a punishment so that is a lost statistic.

And when they become complacent with their system and check even less? Automation can not understand context, intent, etc. It only understands if a person was or wasn't reported.

I'm pretty sure if there was an honest false positive, people would contest it instead of falling under the corporate machine like blind sheeple.

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

That comment is exactly why they don't contest it. It is too much effort. People would rather follow the flow of events then go against it.

SmokedAlmondsNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You can't ignore the truth. The more automation the more mistakes can happen. You are like everyone else in the fact that you dont care for those who try to reform but fail. Try bringing counter arguments instead

You talk about false positives, but where are they all? Sure there are some, but they are few and far between. Most people claiming false positives that I have seen just disagree with or are wrong about what is punishable.

Automation does not inherently increase mistakes. You are arguing about the potential for something to happen, not something that is happening.

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

For the case of judgement, Automation increases mistakes as it does not have the capacity to understand situational variables. Again, the vocal minority are the only ones who will come out to protest, the non-vocal majority are less likely if at all to contest any judgement even if they feel it is false.

The perception of the community (people making posts about being reported and not sure if they will get punished) that they can get punished for small infractions creates a discouragement of communication in game.

the general response for people is 'mute and report' or 'mute all at start of the match' because the community is perceived as such a negative and uncooperative environment.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

For the case of judgement, Automation increases mistakes as it does not have the capacity to understand situational variables. Again, the vocal minority are the only ones who will come out to protest, the non-vocal majority are less likely if at all to contest any judgement even if they feel it is false.

The perception of the community (people making posts about being reported and not sure if they will get punished) that they can get punished for small infractions creates a discouragement of communication in game.

the general response for people is 'mute and report' or 'mute all at start of the match' because the community is perceived as such a negative and uncooperative environment.

You claim the non-vocal majority's opinion is unable to be defined due to the fact they are non-vocal in one post, then in the next one, you act like you are voice for that majority. Which is it?

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

If a player wont vocalize an opinion they wont defend it either.

ModUlanopoNov 2, 20153 votes

{quoted}

The system is fundamentally flawed in the fact that the behavior is always compared to real life equivalents that are not at all equivalent.

Usually when I see this, it's someone trying to make the argument, "It's just a game" or "It's internet. Wear a helmet", neither of which strike me as particularly convincing.

I feel that the opposite is more true: It costs you nothing to be kind to someone over the internet.

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

And criticism is actually a kindness. It shows you want someone to improve.

FiddlemediddlesNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There are two fallacies in this.

First: People on forums are actually 'the vocal minority'. That is to say, they are the people who have a strong opinion and feel they need to share it. I've seen about 10 threads about being banned in the last week? And maybe 3-5 other users post about being unhappy about the system? There's a couple threads, but it's not enough to be called 'a public outcry'. These few people are the people who are either upset that cannot flame openly or upset they got banned. 15 people in one week over the TWENTY. SEVEN. MILLION. USERS. 27,000,000. These people on the forums aren't even the 1% of the populus. They are closer to the 0.01%. The people who complain about the bans are 0.0001%

Second: They were banned, of course they hate the system.

This is a well thought out reply except 27 million? You know 75% of those are the asian community who have an entirely different culture and perspective on gaming.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is a well thought out reply except 27 million? You know 75% of those are the asian community who have an entirely different culture and perspective on gaming.

You are right, I apologize, this forum only handles the english speaking parts, let me see if I can find a better estimate. Annnd, I can't but 75% is hyperbole. Still, even if half are non-english speaking, it's still a staggeringly large number compared to the amount of complaints(or even compliments) on the forums.

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

The majority may very well feel the same as the minority but say nothing because they dont care to voice their opinion.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The majority may very well feel the same as the minority but say nothing because they dont care to voice their opinion.

There's that conspiracy mind set again.

RueianNov 2, 20151 votes

You cant say they do or dont agree.. because no one knows what the non-vocal majority actually feel.

SmokedAlmondsNov 2, 20151 votes

Punishment systems have been improved massively over the last 6 years. You are reading posts that are almost exclusively made by people who are banned and should be taken with a mountain of salt.

Deep Terror NamiNov 2, 20151 votes

LoL has been out since October 27, 2009 and toxic cheaters still don't like being banned

ftfy

FiddlemediddlesNov 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=x5FZnveF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-11-02T02:31:51.560+0000)

ftfy

I haven't been banned but neither has all the toxic players I've reported which is the problem.

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I haven't been banned but neither has all the toxic players I've reported which is the problem.

Except that you don't get notifications right now if they do and you don't know what the followup was(maybe just chat restrictions) or if they reformed. If they were toxic, it'll catch up to them.

ModPrandineNov 2, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I haven't been banned but neither has all the toxic players I've reported which is the problem.

And how do you know they haven't been banned? To me it seems like the people saying that "oh no one I report gets banned" are people that don't fully understand how the system works. One isn't punished for just one or two games unless they're extreme enough to warrant a punishment. No, it takes consistent negative behavior and reports across multiple games to get punished.

Many people have been banned before, but the vast majority of people complaining about how the banning and reform systems work are the people who have actually been punished by them and are mad.

FiddlemediddlesNov 2, 20151 votes

WRong. It takes one instance of a player making severe verbal attacks on others making IRL threats and posting doxing information and the like to get an instant ban. If RIOT did not do that they would be legally liable based on federal cyber criminal laws.

And you know they have been banned because you can look them up and see they haven't been able to play any games for a week.

Deep Terror NamiNov 2, 20153 votes

Do you get a weekly report of player punishments for people you've reported or something?

No, you don't, so please don't make claims as if you know.

Man In SkyNov 2, 20151 votes

I've bee around since season 1. I have seen MASSIVE changes to the system in which is currently put in place. I'm sorry, but your post is based off just recent changes in the system. Not truly overlooking all changes.

Android CowboyNov 2, 20151 votes

Fanboi extraordinare evil dust, seriously, you are jocking rito so hard, it's really quite embarrassing. Were you born without a sense of shame? Gnar

EvilDustManNov 2, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Android Cowboy,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=x5FZnveF,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-11-02T20:07:05.509+0000)

Fanboi extraordinare evil dust, seriously, you are jocking rito so hard, it's really quite embarrassing. Were you born without a sense of shame?

This stuff is important to me. I want to see a change in how we communicate over the internet and what we view as legitimate communication over the internet.