I have heard that saying "ggez" is against the TOS?

Grymmstrike·May 8, 2017·5 votes·8,814 views

Is that the case or was I told wrong?

37 Comments

AeroWaffleMay 8, 20173 votes

Technically? Yeah, it's a bit unsportsmanlike.

But will it be something that you will be punished for by itself (unless you constantly spammed it)? Extremely unlikely.

GrymmstrikeMay 8, 20172 votes

After he consistently says "Ez" or "ggez" about 10 times in the game and says we suck on more than one occasion, this is the after battle chat:

Grymmstrike: Why so toxic, Yi? Toxic Master Yi: Cause you guys suck Toxic Master Yi: try me jet Grymmstrike: That's alright, you are getting reported for being toxic. Toxic Master Yi: Easy anyways Toxic Master Yi: you guys are nothing Other Person: shhh Toxic Master Yi: ok Other Person left the lobby Toxic Master Yi: no kisses? Toxic Master Yi: man I am out of here Toxic Master Yi: gg easy! Toxic Master Yi left the lobby

AeroWaffleMay 8, 20172 votes

Yeah, I would say that would be reportable.

OnlyYouCanHearMeMay 8, 20171 votes

I would report for that sort of behavior. While it's not flaming, it is unsportsmanlike, and in my personal opinion that sort of attitude is immature and unnecessary.

Quote from Riot Tantram on GG EZ:

Yes, it's reportable. Yes, it's negative. Yes, it's unsportsmanlike. Yes, it could help contribute to a penalty.

No, a single ggez by itself, without further history of unsportsmanlike behavior is not going to result in a penalty.

If someone does it consistently, that's one thing. But don't expect to get a feedback message saying a player has been penalized for each and every time a person says ggez.

That was in response to a player asking why players weren't being punished for saying it after a match. Which would be why he mentions the feedback message part at the end. But you can see from the rest of the quote that Riot doesn't appear to like that sort of thing any more than most players do.

MysterQMay 8, 20171 votes

I feel like I can't find Unsportsmanlike Conduct in the aftergame report anymore.

SoulhavokMay 8, 20171 votes

It's goes in negative attitude. Then in notes type unsportsmanlike and what they did.

NylisaMay 8, 20172 votes

gg ... i dont think it should be. but ez is just annoying and wrong . i use good game when i fail too if the game was actually good.

good game : everyone play fair. no one insult anyone. both teams are at same skill level (not getting farmed by smurfs)

Douglas FunnieMay 8, 20172 votes

You'll be straight up perma'd if you're caught saying those word. The intentional feeder on the other team wont get banned. The champ select troll who held people hostage but failed to make anyone dodge wont get banned. The player trying out a new champ in ranked wont get banned. The Afkers wont get banned. The boosters wont get banned.

The person who says "ggez" will get banned.

èGirl NamiMay 8, 20171 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/AzLpNdRg-is-saying-gg-ez-punishable

Shades2doMay 8, 20171 votes

Officially it is punishable....but after talking about it with the support(various ones), it seems that not only is it rather unlikely that someone will get punished by it(even if he writes it in hundreds of consecutive games) but also that it might negatively influence the value of your reports.

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 9, 20171 votes

apparently they dont do the report value thing anymore. each players report is just as valuable as anyone else

Shades2doMay 9, 20171 votes

Well after talking to the support...it still is a thing. Why wouldn´t it be? any quotes on that?

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 9, 20171 votes

I think because they didn't like people asking for reports since it is a pretty negative thing to do. but I'm not sure.

riot tantrum posted this yesterday in https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/oii1yyRe-pretty-pathetic-how-riot-so-so-desperate-for-new-players-that-they-allow-premades-free-will?comment=0005

"This isn't how the system works. A pre-made has no more power than a solo player. A report simply flags a game for review. A 4-man pre-made reporting you does not improve the chances of a game being reviewed."

so a report simply flags a game for review. which means no report has any more or less power than any other. it flags the game and causes the program to review it.

Shades2doMay 9, 20171 votes

that seems only to refer to premade groups. Meaning if a premade group of 4 ppl report you, then it does not count more than basically 1 report. And any report can flag a game for review, of course, but tantrum does(other than groups not having more impact than a solo player) not really say anything about report value and its exact impact.

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 9, 20171 votes

ive read other posts about it im just too lazy to look them up. any report will flag for a review is basically how it works. they have said repeatedly there is no point in asking for reports in chat because 1 report is the same exact thing as 9.

RiotRiot TantramMay 10, 201712 votes

There's no such thing as report value.

Reports trigger reviews of the game.

Shades2doMay 10, 20174 votes

so is this post not relevant anymore?

http: //na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/reports-how-do-they-work

specifically the following statement:

"We can detect false reports, filter them out, and decrease the effectiveness of future reports from consistently dishonest players."

this sounds to me that while you technically cannot lose value through reporting someone very often, you can still lose value if the system considers your reports as dishonest.

Shades2doMay 10, 20171 votes

and what does triggering a review mean?

I always thought that the report system has some kind of threshhold, meaning that in a certain amount of time you have to be reported a certain amount of times. and once that point is reached then every report can be the straw to break the camel's back. So whenever i read that every report can trigger a punishment or in this case trigger a review i think of this concept.

Am i totally wrong?

Lets asume we have 2 different players. P1 is toxic (and gets reported) on a regular basis. P2 is not toxic (and never gets reported). Both now behave very toxic for one game (they do so the same way) and both get reported once. Does "reports trigger reviews of the game" mean the same for them? Are they now both being reviewed manually or by the system and do they receive the same punishment?

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 10, 20171 votes

i believe a report triggers the system to run a program that scans the chat for toxicity, does a check for afk, and an ineffective test for feeding.

if the program finds any of those it doles out the appropriate punishment.

if the player has been reported in a large number of games, (i dont know what this number is, maybe reports in 5 out of the last 10 games or something similar) and the system has not assigned a punishment, then the player will be marked for a manual review.

in your example P1 and P2 both will be reviewed by the punishment program and depending on the level of the toxicity they can both recieve punishment. even if P2 has never been toxic before if he uses hatespeech or extreme toxicity he is likely to be punished.

i dont think riot will reveal too much about their system to you. they dont want to teach people how much they can get away with and still avoid punishment.

Shades2doMay 11, 20171 votes

the problem in my eyes is that most things we talk about here are assumptions, but as you said riot will not reveal too much about their system(they told me so when talking to a supp), which is rather annoying to me. Theres 4 different ways to approach this attitude from riot:

The system is so easy to abuse, that any knowledge helps abusing it (which would be really sad)
The system is simply not very good, so that opening up about it would show how flawed it is, which then would lead to an insane shitstorm by the community(think of when riot said they would not do a training mode)
number 1 and 2 combined
they might be working on an updated version(could be considering how much they did withing the last 12 months), but in a lot of discussions this still would not make much of a sense.

The best possible version for riot would prob be number 1, which in my esey is still really bad. I mean its not like the system could not adept. ppl already abuse the system for example by ping spamming. and now riot finally adds ping mute. if new terms for "gg ez" are being used, then add them to the filter. I really would like to get a few examples of what exactly they fear players learn to abuse if riot opens up about their system.

maybe the problem is that they are way to forgiving. If really every report triggers a review and if triggering a review means that this one review leads to a punishment(remember this is all unclear), then i wonder what riot actually considers as worthy of a punishment. I´ve seen ppl write "fuck you" after u asked them a simple question. Same goes for "gg ez". this still happens on a daily basis. I asked riot supp how they handle this and their answers were really demoralizing. (if interested i can post screenshots, would i have to black out the names of the rioters?)

"There's no such thing as report value."

look at the article i posted. I have now seen riot tantram say on numerous occasions that a report value does not exist, but some of them actually refer to the RV being gone for about 3 years. thing is though, that the article above is only one year ago. and even if he is not talking about the RV from 3 years ago, it can still be that RV and dishonest players are not considered the same by riot. So as long as a riot employe does not spcifically say that the nonexistence of the RV does also include the nonexistence of dishonest players, i will not believe that there is no RV. If it doesn´t exist anymore, then i really wonder why they did not make a follow up statement telling that to ppl.

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 12, 20171 votes

i guess you can believe whatever you want but he cant really say it any more clear than "there is no such thing as report value". but if it makes you happy then i say believe in it.

Shades2doMay 12, 20171 votes

its not that difficult to clarify why they came up with the dishonest system and what happened with it.

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 10, 20171 votes

There's no such thing as report value.

Kei143May 10, 20171 votes

ya, that article is out dated.

Since Aug-2015, they don't have report weights anymore.

Shades2doMay 11, 20171 votes

on the bottom of the article it says that it is only 1 year old, meaning it should be from 2016, so if report value does not exist since 2015, how come they post an article 2016 to tell the ppl that it does? Of course the timestamp could not be perfectly accurate, but lets assume the article was actually before august 2015. who says that report value is considered the same as dishonest players?

and do you have a quote from 2015? i would like to read it myself.

Kei143May 11, 20171 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/9VrUtrJo-being-solo-and-having-a-team-report?comment=0000000000020000000000000000

and any other comment Tantram has made within that thread.

how come they post an article 2016 to tell the ppl that it does?

Updating knowledge base articles doesn't mean it was written before that. Whatever they updated in 2016, they probably forgot to touch upon certain things, such as report weight.

Shades2doMay 11, 20172 votes

ok lets look at the relevant comments:

"Reports haven't lost weight since the instant feedback system was put in place"
"That was the old system. 3 years ago? We have since then iterated many times that only one report is needed to flag games."
Question from a player "Could you clarify; are you saying there is no such thing as report weight at all with the IFS?" Answer from riot tantram: "Confirmed. Reports do not lose value based upon the number of times you report players. This used to be the case. It is no longer true."
player question: "In other words, even for false reporting making it less likely to trigger a case review?"

riot tantrams answer: "Yes. Every single report triggers a review." and "Yes, every time a game is reported, it is reviewed by the system."

so in the first 2 comments i assume he talks about the same timeline. this arcticle from 2 years ago: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/instant-feedback-powers

talks about the instant feedback system being launched months prior "A few months back we launched instant feedback bans". so its rather safe to say both comments refer to the same point. In that article they also talk about patch 5.19.

a few weeks later though they post the article we talked about: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/reports-how-do-they-work

they talk about 5.21 "We updated reports in 5.21". so this article definately came afterwards(now though it actually shows that its 2 years old, not one).

so on a timeline we have:

3 years ago(old system with old report value has been removed)
5.19 and months prior (Instant feedback system has been added instead)
5.21 (clarification on the feedbacksystem (INCLUDING dishonest players) has been added)

taking all that into consideration the quotes from riot tantram above mean the following to me:

quote 2 is about the old system, so irrelevant.

quote 1 and 3: 1 can be considered relevant, but is doubtful cause of quote 3, where he clarifies, that reports dont lose value BASED UPON THE NUMBER OF TIMES YOU REPORT PLAYERS. If you look at the question from the player you actually see that riot tantram is not really answering the question. the player asks if there is "no such thing as report weight at all with the IFS?" and riot tantram then only answers regarding the NUMBER OF TIMES. In my eyes this is not a real answer, he is just dodging the bullet with half-truths.

He DOES NOT clarify if reports dont lose value because of their "dishonest" reports.

quote 4: Now we get to 4 where it gets tricky:

"Yes. Every single report triggers a review." "Yes, every time a game is reported, it is reviewed by the system." In this case we get to another discussion. what does triggering a review mean? Because between a report and the eventual punishment/pardon there might as well be more than just this one process(triggering a review) in between. There still has to be some kind of decision making and that is where a report value could still have a meaning. And if report value has no influence at all cause every report triggers a review, then why come up with dishonest players at all?

On a personal note, I talked to a support about this as well. I brought up the same article and quote regarding dishonest players and described a hypothetic situation. to make a long story short, he did not deny(or correct me) in any way that the dishonest system does exist, but he told me that its unlikely the system would consider the player (from my hypotethic situation) to be dishonest. If i dont interpret this completely wrong or that riot employe did not get updated within the last 3 years about the system, then this means that there is a system judging your honesty and consequently lowering your report value in some way.

"Updating knowledge base articles doesn't mean it was written before that."

dont know what u r trying to tell me with this.

"Whatever they updated in 2016, they probably forgot to touch upon certain things, such as report weight."

If it really is a mistake on riots behalf, than this would have to be a really huge one. I mean they distanced themselves from the old system months ago, but when writing this article they still accidently added a report value system? this seems so unlikely that i simply doubt it. and they did not forget to touch upon the report value. they did so indirectly by talking about dishonest players.

Kei143May 11, 20171 votes

you are over thinking it.

People are lazy when it comes to writing knowledge base articles. So they copy and paste from the old article and change a few things for the new article.

Some specific points probably got missed.

Shades2doMay 12, 20172 votes

srsly lazyness is a silly excuse. and even if such a mistake happened, they could just clarify that dishonesty does not exist in any way anymore and they should also explain why after they got rid of the report value they started the dishonest system. if it was a mistake, then clarify it. nothing easier than that.

Kei143May 12, 20171 votes

I'm pretty sure only one person wrote the knowledge base article, another person updated it and probably didn't bother reading over the whole thing.

I'd be suprised if they knew that "report values" were in the article. If they did, they probably aren't the ones writing the code thus didn't know that "report values" have already been scrapped.

(We didn't know that either until Tantram came out and wrote it).

Just communication things with article writers and coders. Having been in the same field, I'm pretty sure that's how it went.

Shades2doMay 12, 20171 votes

and again...clarifying that is not that difficult.

Edit: and that still does not explain why riot tantram always answers in a very sepcific way when it comes to the report value. if he would say that there is no report value at all in any kind of way (including the dishonest system), then it would all be fine. But as i described with quote 1 and 3 and then again with quote 4, he always specifies it down to certain parts of the report system. Its like you ask a person if he has never stolen anything in his life and he answers "yes, i never stole something in the last 5 years".

Edit 2: message somehow got mixed up, so i deleted it and reposted it under your comment....but it still somehow doesnt work the way i intend it...well nvm.

Huang ShaotianMay 10, 20171 votes

Any report triggers the AI review, but the result of that review (aka weather you get banned or not) takes into account the number of reports you received.

True or false? 4 reports will result in a punishment more often than 1?

You're just playing word~fu to avoid the topic.

TrulyBlandMay 10, 20171 votes

He didn't avoid the topic, you just decided to ask a different question. Not answering a question that wasn't asked is not word fu. Nothing would suggest the amount of reports that triggered a review has an impact on the outcome of that review, and I'm fairly certain they've even denied this explicitely at some point.

GrymmstrikeMay 12, 20171 votes

So if there is no weight, I can just report everyone in every game and let the system decide if it thinks anyone should be banned, and I would not have any negative side effect? Like...

"Enuntio eos. Novit enim Machina qui sunt eius."

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 9, 20171 votes

ggez is going to get you eventually punished for toxic. just use gg zz or izi and you should be ok until they become meta