Why is it a crime to get mad in game?

i404notfound·Apr 8, 2018·1 votes·834 views

I would keep posting in my last thread but apparently because I was making progress with ONE member of the crew and NOT everyone available it got locked by a bADMIN. Aside from this picture being a more fitting logo for Riot these days,

https://i.redd.it/jwb3sxhs4jq01.jpg

Why is it so acceptable to have player guidelines that allow Riot to selectively punish the victims of trolls/inters without punishing the inters? Whats so hard about simply having a "competitive" section where reports for verbal abuse physicaly dont exsist while then having a section for "4 fun" players who would rather selfishly play for themselves over their teammates?

Why force conflicting ideologies to "ban" each other due to conflict rather than simply have them separated?

22 Comments

EvilDustManApr 8, 20188 votes

You get banned for being an ass. You can be competitive without being an ass.

If you went to mini golf and constantly yelled "fuck you" and "deez nuts" at your opponents, they'd kick you out. Not because they are fascist, but because they have a business to run and no one likes having you around.

JustMonika13Apr 8, 20186 votes

Don’t use pictures without knowing the context.

It’s made in response to Cowsep’s current issues with Riot Korea, centered in SOUTH Korea. The flag is a joke likening Riot KR to North Korea.

i404notfoundApr 8, 20181 votes

It's rather fitting given the totalitarian state they try to rule in.

archerno1Apr 8, 20185 votes

{quoted}

It's rather fitting given the totalitarian state they try to rule in.

If you dont like it here then why dont you leave?

JustMonika13Apr 8, 20184 votes

{quoted}

It's rather fitting given the totalitarian state they try to rule in.

Why would it be anything but a “totalitarian” rule? It’s Riot’s company. They can do whatever the fuck they want with it and their property (your account) as long as it doesn’t break any laws.

YOU waived off most of YOUR own rights the moment you joined and agreed to the ToS.

You’re still using the image completely out of context either way.

Cowsep’s situation with Riot KR is seen as silencing/censoring him after he “exposed” the Korean server’s rampant toxicity issue, something Riot HQ in NA has yet to do to this date.

FOR JUSTICEApr 8, 20185 votes

But riot does punish inters and trolls, it just takes longer to do so. by retaliating at them you become a flamer, which is also punishable. Youre no longer the "victim" at that point, but rather the aggressor. 2 wrongs dont make it right.

Also a seperate queue like that is esentially the player opting into toxicity, which riot is strictly against in any way or form.

i404notfoundApr 8, 20181 votes

Check any recent thread about inting and trolls. Nothing is being done about it. We've heard the "algorithm is hard" statement since season fucking 4 now. If you dont look to solve the problem but instead look to ban everyone by labeling everything they could possibly do as "being the aggressor" how can you expect to get a better game?

Toxicity is such a subjective thing that it NEEDS to be adjustible to different tastes. I hate having to play with people who dont care about winning but I'm unaffected by people who "verbal abuse". others hate "verbal abuse" while not being affected by intentional feeders.

Why do BOTH of us get banned?

Imperial PandaaApr 8, 20188 votes

Then figure out an algorithm to figure out inters and trolls. Because there is no cookie cutter solution to it. We can't simply go "x deaths = int" even if we went "x deaths in y time = int" as soon as that knowledge gets out, they get better. And then only people actually having a bad game are getting punished.

What about trolls? Riot won't impose a meta onto the community because we don't want one. So while they could get more obvious ones "ap zed" others would have to remain open "ad janna" "Taric Top". As for abilities what are you going ro do about TK, Anivia, and Trundle (I spose Taliyah too.) with eating/terrain. Maybe they were trying to help separate a teammate and close enemy. Am I to be punished because I was off a few pixels or whoever I ate spat themselves back out?

Maybe it has been talked about since season 4, but it isn't exactly a simple thing to change, especially since we all have brains. It is also why chat/flamers get more chances before a perm ban might fall on them (pending escalation form 0 tolerance) and troll/inting starts with a 14 day ban.

A recent thread? What about the Sion Ornn Mid guy? It got banned from trolling/griefing. Yes, it is a single case; but it shows that they are trying.

i404notfoundApr 8, 20181 votes

You can argue all you want about how hard it is, but it does nothing to justify how the current game is. Simply segregating the community into these two groups is more than enough. Everyone who isn't interested in winning goes on one side and get judged on their words and behavior. They all play with each other. The other side gets judged only by their play. blocking someone with anivia, as troll as it is, doesn't trash the game unless you do it all game. This BESIDES the fact that reviews on gameplay would be much more viable if you didn't have to judge walls of text.

If your judged on gameplay then the report system could be tailored as such. It would be simple to report someone for troll build, have a look at their build, and determine from there. But instead you would rather mass ban people for words AND WORDS ALONE. Like do you know it's considered a casual sport now to get people banned by antagonizing them?

I am well aware how hard it is to make a functioning anti-troll algorithm, but until that is set you shouldn't punish players for getting mad at YOUR OWN design failures.

Again, the issue is not that the algorithm doesn't work so much that VICTIMS are getting punished via permaban. I would say innocent but you have a VERY different opinion on that word I would imagine.

Imperial PandaaApr 8, 20184 votes

Splitting the player base into two will only make queues longer, maybe unbearable at times. You also fail to mention if I am forever stuck in one of your two groups. Am I or can I switch either way I still don't want it. How the hell is gameplay blocked by walls of text? It isn't, unless you make it so.

You still can't design a a report system based on gameplay. Again, the only time something is a "troll build" is honestly only ap. If someone has no scaling with ap then that can be troll to have, unless a byproduct (Rage Blade). Everything else would be fair game to do, because again, no forced meta.

No, I would like the system to be improved for dealing with trolls and inters. I expect people to be able to control themselves and not throw a tantrum in game because a team mate is doing bad. I expect people to learn from the multiple chances from chat punishments (because again you get 3 before a perm) to stop. I only report for zero tolerance because that stuff had no place. Do you know assholes exist everywhere who try to get you in trouble doing whatever? If you know what they are trying to do, why do you give them what they want? Isn't one of the first rules of the internet "Don't feed the Troll"?

It isn't really a design failure. It is more of a human interaction problem than it is a game problem.

I don't see victims getting permabanned. The victims are the players who had to deal with both the cause(troll/int feeder) and the effect (flamer). The only time the cause is a victim is if it is a case of a bad game, which is more likely than it being a troll. The moment it isn't about defending yourself, and is about striking back to hurt; is the moment you are part of the problem.

BijeesnyApr 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rvfcWb46,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-08T06:40:04.247+0000)

Then figure out an algorithm to figure out inters and trolls. Because there is no cookie cutter solution to it. We can't simply go "x deaths = int" even if we went "x deaths in y time = int" as soon as that knowledge gets out, they get better. And then only people actually having a bad game are getting punished.

What about trolls? Riot won't impose a meta onto the community because we don't want one. So while they could get more obvious ones "ap zed" others would have to remain open "ad janna" "Taric Top". As for abilities what are you going ro do about TK, Anivia, and Trundle (I spose Taliyah too.) with eating/terrain. Maybe they were trying to help separate a teammate and close enemy. Am I to be punished because I was off a few pixels or whoever I ate spat themselves back out?

This could be easly solved by asking the community what they have found to be troll strats? What kind of trolling did they encounter in their games and give a detalied description.

Maybe it has been talked about since season 4, but it isn't exactly a simple thing to change, especially since we all have brains. It is also why chat/flamers get more chances before a perm ban might fall on them (pending escalation form 0 tolerance) and troll/inting starts with a 14 day ban.

A recent thread? What about the Sion Ornn Mid guy? It got banned from trolling/griefing. Yes, it is a single case; but it shows that they are trying.

He got banned after being reported 511 TIMES IN ONE MONTH!! Thats more than 10 reports per day my dude... If they can't tell some1 is trolling after 50 reports, their PB team is either:

stupid
lazy
were forced to take some actions..I'm assuming at least 1/5 of people that reported that guy also submitted a ticket about him

Imperial PandaaApr 8, 20181 votes

That isn't a grand way to go about finding troll strats. Do you remember the "Name the Dew" contest a fee years ago? (honest question because don't know if it was only a States thing) Long story short, they had to cancel it because what ended up in first place was "Hitler Did Nothing Wrong". Was it because of trolls? Probably. But lets take that same results to this idea. Legitimate tactics slowly become labeled as troll strats: proxy singed, ap support, ranged tops, teemo.

Again it breaks down to no enforced meta. Gragas supp would have gotten reported as a troll strat prior to people seeing it in effect via pro play.

I agree, it should have raised a flag sooner. I think it was with you that we agreed like x reports over y games in z category should trigger a manual review.

BijeesnyApr 8, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rvfcWb46,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-08T15:30:31.712+0000)

That isn't a grand way to go about finding troll strats. Do you remember the "Name the Dew" contest a fee years ago? (honest question because don't know if it was only a States thing) Long story short, they had to cancel it because what ended up in first place was "Hitler Did Nothing Wrong". Was it because of trolls? Probably. But lets take that same results to this idea. Legitimate tactics slowly become labeled as troll strats: proxy singed, ap support, ranged tops, teemo.

No I don't remeber, I never heard anything bout that tbh. Now, when I tink about it, I dont think it would be a good idea xD Sry, was a little bit tilted when I was writing that comment, but you're right, it wouldn't be a good idea

Again it breaks down to no enforced meta. Gragas supp would have gotten reported as a troll strat prior to people seeing it in effect via pro play.

I agree, it should have raised a flag sooner. I think it was with you that we agreed like x reports over y games in z category should trigger a manual review.

I'm pretty sure I had that discussion with HaclonDweller ( I hope I didnt butchered his nickname xD) but yea, we came to that conclusion

Imperial PandaaApr 8, 20182 votes

That contest became a cluster and it was hilarious. I understand, Bijeesny, and the idea behind it is good and I may just be overly pessimistic about potential flaws.

I'm hurt, you don't recall our conversation from about 8 days ago.[sg-soraka] (obviously I am just picking and messing around with this part.)

BijeesnyApr 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Imperial Pandaa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rvfcWb46,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-08T17:19:37.195+0000)

That contest became a cluster and it was hilarious. I understand, Bijeesny, and the idea behind it is good and I may just be overly pessimistic about potential flaws.

I wish I could participate in that, sounds fun :P

I'm hurt, you don't recall our conversation from about 8 days ago.[sg-soraka] (obviously I am just picking and messing around with this part.)

I'm sowwy [zombie-nunu-tears]

ModiApr 8, 20183 votes

{quoted} Toxicity is such a subjective thing that it NEEDS to be adjustible to different tastes. I hate having to play with people who dont care about winning but I'm unaffected by people who "verbal abuse". others hate "verbal abuse" while not being affected by intentional feeders.

It already is adjusted to the others in your game. If no one in your game found your behavior unacceptable, then you would not be reported. By not being reported, you will not be punished.

What I think you are saying (or trying to say) is:

Because I don't find my chat as toxic, I should not be punished for it.

That would be the worst system ever. You are not your own judge and jury. You do not police yourself. That is not how the world works.

BijeesnyApr 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But riot does punish inters and trolls, it just takes longer to do so. by retaliating at them you become a flamer, which is also punishable. Youre no longer the "victim" at that point, but rather the aggressor. 2 wrongs dont make it right.

You mean 511 reports in order to get manually reviewed only to get 14-day banned? (Just like one guy couple of days ago ended up)

Also a seperate queue like that is esentially the player opting into toxicity, which riot is strictly against in any way or form.

At this point, it's the only solution.. Trolls are let to freely run around for too long until something is done in that regard

o brigid oApr 8, 20185 votes

{quoted}

Whats so hard about simply having a "competitive" section where reports for verbal abuse physicaly dont exsist

then having a section for "4 fun" players who would rather selfishly play for themselves over their teammates

Having a competitive spirit isn't the same as being verbally abusive. Like... at all. Being competitive is actually a healthy thing. Losing your shit when your team doesn't do well and establishing a pattern of abusive behavior toward your peers is NOT healthy. Abusive behavior is not and should not be excused just because you want to win « « extra hard » ». Players who want to use ranked as an excuse to be abusive don't deserve their own queue. They deserve to be removed from the community.

Calling people who want to play a GAME for FUN selfish has got to be one of the most ass backwards pieces of logic I've seen in a long time. It is a video game. Its entire purpose is to be utilized for fun with the only exception being if your income and livelihood relies on you playing it as your job. Ranked exists for players of any skill to see where they fall on the ladder. That doesn't mean players should stop playing for fun just because a game counts towards their position on that ladder.

You're not a professional. You're not master or challenger. You're silver. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But don't act like players who want to play for FUN are somehow the reason people have bad games or that "for fun" players are impacting your income or livelihood. It's not. And you selfishly demanding a separate queue so you can be abusive without consequences is, quite frankly, hilarious.

i404notfoundApr 9, 20181 votes

Apparently it is wrong that I'm silver to you, since I have to be master or challenger in order to get teammates who actually want to win.

I you really find "I just play for fun" ass backwards, ask anyone who intentionally feeds and incites poeple to get perma-banned for words. You know what their response will be? "it was fun" You cant say "lul if it's fun it's ok if it isnt it isnt". Thats like arguing good tasting food is good for your body. Looking past the more complex terms, you can use a SUBJECTIVE detail to get an OBJECTIVE result.

You want people to have fun, the more you target the less fun each individual has. You want people to play well, you build a box and who ever fits in it is playing well all from challenger to bronze.

But since I expect you to NOT abandon the "but MY fun is more important than ANYONE ELSE'S fun" standpoint, let me ask you this.

Person A has fun playing the game to win, they dont have fun when others ruin their chance to win.

Person B has fun playing the game "for fun", but doesnt have fun when others actualy try to win for any reason.

Which of these people is WORSE? no "they are both just players", no "which ever is more toxic",

YOU DEFINE which mindset is worse. Until you do I fail to see any argument I could have with such an insular mindset.

Razzle N DazzléApr 8, 20182 votes

Because it's 2018 and everyones a sensitive snowflake and get upset about everything

Lord of MathApr 8, 20181 votes

I get a message saying that someone was penalized like every ten games, I also report more than I probably should, but they still get penalized. Sometimes my teammate was just doing poorly and then got triggered by me asking them to trade lanes and decided to mute me because they expected me to get toxic then missed me enemy missing pinging my midlaner