It really boggles my mind that a competitive game such as this wants you be happy you were force fed a loss that you have NO control over to the extent of perma banning people who actualy want to play the game as a reward for those who want to ruin it for others.
Jo0o11 votesA couple weeks ago, I lost a ranked match. In bot lane, we were doing pretty damn well. But up in top lane, our Rumble was having a difficult time against the enemy Nasus. Our mid laner started making comments like "Bronze Rumble GG" and similar, insulting the Rumble for no good reason. Rumble decided to overreact, and said in /all something to the effect of "Free farm top for Nasus", and abandoned his lane to farm jungle and mid. We lost a winnable game because of this.
As a bystander to this argument, I can't mute it to make it go away. I tried to diffuse, but got ignored. Two assholes couldn't keep it in their pants, and I'm left with the loss.
So fuck yeah, I say chat abuse deserves a punishment. Figure out a way to play effectively with your team, or fuck off to a different game. If you can't handle losing without screaming at somebody, stick to single player games.
i404notfound1 votesA. how was it winnnable when a rumble was losing to a nasus? B. was midlane winning lane or not? C. was jungle actualy attempting to fix toplane or not? D. How is this an example of how player action DIDNT lose you the game but WORDS and WORDS ALONE did?
Your answer to D is the most important as it either justifies or destroys your own argument.
RallerenP7 votesNot Jo0o but I feel qualified to answer:
D. How is this an example of how player action DIDNT lose you the game but WORDS and WORDS ALONE did?
It's a combination of both. In Jo0o's case words triggered a player to do actions that intentionally lost the game.
BOTH parties are wrong. Had the midlaner been positive the rumble may just have played safer and not inted. Instead the midlaner chose to flame him and lost the game because of it.
Words alone didn't cause Jo0o to lose, but they had a HUGE impact on it.
i404notfound1 votesHow did they have a HUGE impact? they are words. The impact they have is FELT to be huge because the current player behavior system punishes words FAR HARSHER than any action you could take.
Explain to me, using ONLY gold value to objectify this, how words are far worse than ANY action you can take.
I'd really like to know how much gold I'm dragging away from my team by using a text box.
RallerenP7 votesHow did they have a HUGE impact? they are words.
If you think words have no impact you are ignorant and there is no point in discussion.
The impact is huge BECAUSE THEY TRIGGERED THE ACTIONS THAT LOST THE GAME. Without the words, they might not have lost the game. It was because of the words the rumble decided to int!
BOTH Rumble and the midlaner deserve punishment. They both contributed greatly to intentionally losing the game.
The impact they have is FELT to be huge because the current player behavior system punishes words FAR HARSHER than any action you could take.
Words are punished LESS harshly, but it's easier to prove that words are intentionally meant to harm than to prove an action is. You don't understand the system, so look it up next time.
Explain to me, using ONLY gold value to objectify this, how words are far worse than ANY action you can take.
Ok: Words MADE the Rumble int, meaning the enemy gain gold from him.
I NEVER claimed Rumble was innocent, but the discussion is that the midlaner was guilty aswell.
I'd really like to know how much gold I'm dragging away from my team by using a text box.
You are the jungler in this scenario.
So let's say top lane misplays accidentally.
You write "GG report top inting".
This tilts the toplaner even more making him play worse, feeding the enemy further.
You indirectly caused the enemy to gain gold.
Had you instead said nothing, or encouraged him like
"Almost out..." or "I'll gank top soon" or even "play safer :)"
Then he wouldn't have tilted and he would play better. He might even comeback and get a kill, in which case you indirectly gained gold for your team.
Both cases you ONLY used chat.
Jo0o5 votesRumble was losing, but bot was winning. The game was probably still in the 50/50 range, before rumble got provoked by mid and started inting. As Ralleren stated for me, both mid and top were in the wrong. But mid picked a fight through chat with top, causing top to troll. If mid had shut up and focused on their own game, bot lane probably could have carried a losing Rumble.
i404notfound1 votesTheres fare more to a game than "bot was winning" I get we're in a weird jungle meta where jungle has the most influence but adc still decides whether you win or lose but you cant call it 50/50 on ONLY two lanes. I fucking doubt bot would carry against a fed nasus. How were your junglers doing, what did you have as your botlane. Between player skill Jungler play Botlane play and words, WHICH of these has the MOST influence in the game and which of these has the least? If your gonna put words above ANY of them, then put a gold value on verbal abuse. You can cry it's all mid's fault all you want, but if you cant do it without copping with "well it's both of their faults" then your own argument on the subject has no value.
Jo0o7 votesWhat the fuck does any of this have to do with the topic at hand?
I'm not gonna arbitrarily assign gold value to shit and play your pointless game. My point is that verbal abuse can destroy team cohesion and, in some cases, provoke trolling. I don't know how to calculate the negative gold value of a top laner abandoning his lane to AFK farm jungle/mid, but it's pretty fucking bad for a team.
And it IS both of their faults. How is that a cop-out? My game got destroyed because two people would rather argue with each other than focus on winning the game, and I can't mute my way out of a situation like that. I reported both of them.
Awf Meta1 votesChat wasn't the root cause.
But up in top lane, our Rumble was having a difficult time against the enemy Nasus.
If Rumble was having a good game, mid wouldn't have said anything. (assumption, since it appears mid wasn't harassing bot lane)
Some one should have physically helped Rumble.
So, we have 2 actions that started the entire situation.
What is the natural result of those 2 actions?
If a player plays poorly and no one helps them. The enemy is going to be fed and is more likely to win the game.
I'm not going to argue that the chat abuse was warranted. I will say though, even without the chat abuse, the game was already leaning towards a loss. Fix the root cause and the game would have been winnable. Prevent the root cause and the toxicity never would have happened.
Jo0o3 votesTop was losing, but bot was winning. Mid was neutral.
We had a good shot at winning the game, before top started soft-inting after mid flamed him. Neither is justified in their actions, but if mid had just shut up and focused on themselves, the rumble could have been carried.
Awf Meta1 votesAs a bystander to this argument, I can't mute it to make it go away. I tried to diffuse, but got ignored.
That is your problem. No one on your team was willing to take ACTION. Someone needed to physically help the Rumble. Rumble didn't need a cheer leader, they needed a team mate.
Since no one was willing to take ACTION, the Rumble was destined to continue to lose lane.
Chat was not the root cause of the problem. You are trying to argue the problem could have been overcome if the mid laner kept their mouth shut. While that may be, you have still not acknowledged the initial problem.
The initial problems:
Punishing mid lane for verbal abuse, does nothing to solve the original problems.
Punishing mid DOES NOT make Rumble play better. Punishing mid DOES NOT make other players help Rumble.
Now let's consider a hypothetical. What if mid never said anything about Rumble?
Rumble is still playing poorly. Still, no one is helping Rumble.
Take out the chat abuse and the problem is still there.
One more hypothetical. What if Rumble played well?
Mid wouldn't have said anything. Rumble wouldn't be feeding. No one would need to help the Rumble.
All 3 problems are solved by Rumble playing well.
CHAT WAS NOT THE ROOT CAUSE.
ModPeriscope2 votesYou have a long rant to excuse someone from berating their teammate. You're expected to work together towards the common goal of winning.
Toxicity has many causes, but anyone at any time can stop it. I don't queue up to listen to folks arguing, nor do I care for discouraging/insulting chat, because all it does is steer the focus away from winning.
I get that negative chat doesn't affect you, but you're not Rumble. Everyone's affected by negativity differently, but it is safe to say that the reaction to a toxic teammate is "never positive." This leaves you with 2 scenarios, where the midlaner is spouting crap mindlessly to a deaf/muted audience, or it negatively impacts the experience and play of other individuals.
Awf Meta1 votesOMG GO AWAY.
I'm not going to argue that the chat abuse was warranted.
ModPeriscope2 votesBut you're pointing to something worse that should be punished? And giving reasons why other things should be punished more? You may not outright say that it was warranted, but you're (at the least) giving it a free pass while going after something else.
Jo0o3 votesYou act as though a player losing lane and a player actively trolling and abandoning their lane entirely for a Nasus to farm are equivalent in how bad they are.
Rumble losing lane does not by itself lose us the game. We can carry from bot. Rumble giving up and acting to the detriment of the team, however, is significantly worse. No lane is guaranteed "help", especially not top lane.
Just because there was a potential problem with our team's strategy doesn't mean that the mis-use of chat actively damaged our chances of winning the game. I carry or contribute to carrying games all the time, and the Rumble probably wasn't too heavy when he was simply down a few kills. But once he actively gave up and quit trying to win due to the argument between him and mid, we were sunk. An underfed Rumble that can still ult in a team fight is much easier to carry than a full-on 4v6.
Awf Meta1 votesYou act as though a player losing lane and a player actively trolling and abandoning their lane entirely for a Nasus to farm are equivalent in how bad they are.
No I am not. STOP IGNORING THE PROBLEMS.
THE PROBLEMS:
Rumble was playing poorly. No one was helping the Rumble. Verbal abuse from the mid laner.
Solve ALL of those problems.
Jo0o4 votesI'm not sure what you're getting at. Maybe there were strategic avenues to rescue Rumble's lane. Does that invalidate the issue presented when the mid-laner chose to flame?
Because sure, I'm down to help shut down that Nasus and get Rumble back into the game, but him opting to troll kinda threw that plan out the window. I can't swear that the game would have been won if Rumble hadn't trolled or if mid hadn't flamed, but chat abuse had a tangible negative impact on my chances of winning, independent of anything I was doing in the game. Do you disagree with that?
Awf Meta1 votesI'm not sure what you're getting at.
I can't make it any clearer. SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS PRESENTED.
Does that invalidate the issue presented when the mid-laner chose to flame?
NO. The mid laner was ONE of MULTIPLE problems. SOLVE ALL OF THE PROBLEMS.
Because sure, I'm down to help shut down that Nasus and get Rumble back into the game, but him opting to troll kinda threw that plan out the window.
No, it didn't. Your entire team choosing not to help shut down that Nasus was the down fall of that plan. Just considering a plan is not very effective. You have to actually TAKE ACTION. None of you TOOK ACTION. You tried to talk your way out of the situation.
Jo0o3 votesDude, I was the support. My job in the laning phase is to babysit the ADC. ADC's job is to farm bot lane. We're both on hand to grab Dragon with the jungler when possible. There's rarely a realistic moment when support gets to top lane during the laning phase, and even if there is, I know that I'm not an experienced enough support to recognize that window and take action on it. I'm sure I'm not teaching you anything new here.
Top got tilted by mid. Are you seriously saying that all would have been well if I'd magically gotten my ass up to top lane? Should I have done so preemptively, knowing that mid would push top over the edge?
You and this 404 guy are treating my example like it's some problem to solve, like there's some way I could have carried the game and un-tilted my team. And hey, maybe there was! BUT THAT IN NO WAY EXCUSES WHAT HAPPENED.
Mid flamed top. Flaming is against the rules, without exception. Top reacted to this by trolling, which is also against the rules. Trolling is notoriously difficult to overcome in League. OP asked why flaming in chat is treated so harshly, so I offered this experience as an example.
Now please, stop acting like you could possibly know the correct macro play to make based on a bare-bones recounting of the situation in a game that you weren't present for, and tell me whether I have the right to be upset about the turn of events and blame them, at least partially, on the behavioral transgressions of my teammates.
Awf Meta1 votesDude, I was the support. My job in the laning phase is to babysit the ADC. ADC's job is to farm bot lane. We're both on hand to grab Dragon with the jungler when possible.
No, that is META. Riot does not enforce META.
There's rarely a realistic moment when support gets to top lane during the laning phase, and even if there is, I know that I'm not an experienced enough support to recognize that window and take action on it.
You are not the only person on your team though. Any of you could have gone to help top lane.
Top got tilted by mid.
While probably true, mid likely wasn't the only contributing factor. Would Rumble have gotten tilted if they were stomping Nasus?
Are you seriously saying that all would have been well if I'd magically gotten my ass up to top lane?
I can't say that. I would say, any amount of help would have made the situation better. Any one farming that lane would have been better than leaving the lane open.
BUT THAT IN NO WAY EXCUSES WHAT HAPPENED.
More than just chat abuse happened. You hyper focus on the chat abuse while ignoring everything else that happened. I'm not excusing ANY behavior. I'm trying to show you that there is more to the story than "chat abuse ruined my game".
Imagine you have a blocked shower drain(toxicity) that is collecting hair(chat abuse). Sure, remove the hair(chat abuse). You have to fix the original blockage as well, or the hair will just collect again.
Jo0o1 votesMore than just chat abuse happened. You hyper focus on the chat abuse while ignoring everything else that happened. I'm not excusing ANY behavior. I'm trying to show you that there is more to the story than "chat abuse ruined my game".
I don't know why you're trying to show me that.
We're in the PB boards, OP is asking about chat abuse. I weighed in on an example of chat abuse, and the toll it took on my game. Your point is that other things were also going wrong in that game. Okay, sure. Is that all we're talking about here? Because it doesn't seem worth this back and forth to establish that flaming a player for losing lane tends to go hand in hand with a player losing lane.
Awf Meta1 votesYou are treating the symptoms while ignoring the disease. Until you are willing to acknowledge and work on the disease, the symptoms will return.
Jo0o1 votesOkay, I'll... try to be a better player?
Awf Meta1 votesThat is a simplistic view.
For you in particular, I would say try to be more active and pro active. Actions speak louder than words.
Offer lane swaps. Spread your influence to more than a single lane. Some one refuses to group? Group on them instead. Cover lanes without "pushing" them.
Be more forgiving with chat. Sure, being called "stupid" isn't great. It's not going to ruin your life though. Save the reports for the really bad offenses.
Jo0o1 votesI'm plenty forgiving in chat. I can't forgive on behalf of somebody else, though. Had mid flamed me instead of top, I'd have ignored or muted them.
My understanding of trying to win bot lane with a losing top lane is that it would be better to snowball my ADC than risk having them shut down vs a fed top laner. Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm not. Still, this is all strategy. I'm not at all interested in theorizing strategy here. If I was, I'd move over to the gameplay boards.
Awf Meta1 votesClearly, bot lane can't win 2 v 5.
I just suggest you to start thinking (and then acting) about the entire team. It doesn't have to be "snow ball every lane". Some times, just showing up to a lane can give breathing room for the laner to get some farm. Some times, you can hold a lane while your team mate shops so you don't lose the tower. Some times, bot can go gank top lane. The main idea is to be flexible.
ModThe Djinn11 votesIt's not a crime to get mad. It's not a problem to express that anger respectfully.
It becomes a problem when you express that frustration in a way that insults or belittles other community members.
Anger is a normal emotion, but not every way it can be expressed is acceptable.
i404notfound1 votesand yet you dodge the question of why is it acceptable to muzzle the ones who complain WITHOUT doing ANYTHING about the ones they complain about?
Why is it perfectly justifiable from your perspective to intentionally feed and troll PROVIDED you are "respectful" about how you go about it but it's an outright perma-bannable offense to COMPLAIN about said trolls and intentional feeders?
ModThe Djinn8 votes{quoted}Why is it perfectly justifiable from your perspective to intentionally feed and troll...
I never said that. It should be (and is) punishable to do those things, and I personally would like to see Riot find a more reliable way to detect these behaviors. They do punish them more aggressively than all but the very worst chat behavior (which earns an equal level of punishment -- an immediate 14-day ban), but they are currently harder to detect accurately.
The fact that I think it should be punishable to verbally abuse other community does not mean I think it's okay to intentionally ruin games via gameplay either. It's more accurate to say that I feel it's punishable to disrespect your team, whether it be through your gameplay or your chat.
In short, Riot DOES do something about the troll and intentional feeders. The system that detects them is just a bit more cautious to avoid catching players having a bad day. It's something they're working on improving, albeit more slowly than many of us would like, but it's not true that they're ignoring it or endorsing that behavior.
i404notfound1 votesAnd yet you entirely condone poeple being banned for complaining about trolls and feeders. You encouraging perma-banns for people who are ONLY disrespectful in chat while giving a free pass to those who genuinely hurt gameplay through gameplay under the excuse of "building bots is hard".
You dont have to word for word say something in order to state an opinion. can you deny that you find it acceptable that verbal abuse is punished far more often and far harsher than intentional feeder/trolling? It really doesn't matter that you hide behind the copy pasta excuse Riot regurgitates when this issue is brought up.
To put it similarly as someone else argues in another thread, If I break the rules then I have broken the rules and that's the end of it.
So do please state your opinion on whether or not it's "ok" that verbal abuse is enforced to a far harsher degree than intentional feeding or trolling as there really is no argument to be had without it.
Do also keep in mind I am no way or form saying verbal abuse is a non-issue/dimissing it's existence. I understand why the system is in place, I just fail to see why it was designed SPECIFICALLY to reward intentional feeder and trolls. if you really need reference on this last sentence refer to the opening post.
ModThe Djinn7 votes{quoted}You encouraging perma-banns for people who are ONLY disrespectful in chat while giving a free pass to those who genuinely hurt gameplay through gameplay under the excuse of "building bots is hard."
I'm not giving it a free pass -- I'm saying that it's silly to say that we'll give one form of abuse we CAN readily detect a free pass while we improve our methods of detecting another.
Can you deny that you find it acceptable that verbal abuse is punished far more often and far harsher than intentional feeder/trolling?
Yes, I can deny that, actually. I just think the solution isn't to lessen punishments for verbal abuse, but rather to work on strengthening accurate detection of non-verbal abuse.
So do please state your opinion on whether or not it's "ok" that verbal abuse is enforced to a far harsher degree than intentional feeding or trolling as there really is no argument to be had without it.
It is not okay, but it is worse to give leeway to verbal abuse cases (which makes people think that is acceptable) in the interest of "fairness" only to roll that back when troll detection improves.
I just fail to see why it was designed SPECIFICALLY to reward intentional feeder and trolls.
As above, it is not. It is designed to detect one type of behavior, as other IFS modules are designed to detect others. The fact that people feel it advantages feeders and trolls is an unfortunate side effect of that bot being less quick at detection currently, but that is a side effect of that process being more complex, NOT an intentional design to favor those behaviors.
Again, the solution is not to reduce the effectiveness of existing bots and, in doing so, enable more abusive behavior.
i404notfound1 votesAgain, dodging the point. All you literally had to answer was "the current system of banning complainers NOT working as well as intended but better than no system" OR "the current system of rewarding trolls is acceptable to no system"
Instead you literally reworded your last post resulting you going several miles an hour to the EXACT same spot you started. keeping in mind how cute it is that it was INTENDED to cut down on ONE behavior type, it is undeniable that by punishing the complainers BEFORE the actual trolls you are rewarding them by accomplishing their end further than they alone are capable of.
As such, how is this an acceptable system given that troll/int detection isn't working? or in otherwords,
How is a system that, though not intended for it, was unintentionally designed to reward trolls by doing far more damage to the victim than the perpetrator while the system being built to catch trolls/inting was KNOWN to be so far behind that a majority of cases would get by with little if ANY action taken against them considering "perfectly acceptable and not worth changing at all because it is right"?
ModThe Djinn7 votes{quoted}All you literally had to answer was "the current system of banning complainers NOT working as well as intended but better than no system"OR "the current system of rewarding trolls is acceptable to no system"
The chat detection portion of the system is working as intended though. It is banning those who are verbally abusive to their teammates. The fact that people often choose to be verbally abuses due to provocation by trolls and/or intentional feeders is problematic, yes, but it still a conscious choice to engage in that abusive chat behavior by those players.
My personal stance is "the IFS could benefit from improvement in several respects, but reducing its existing effectiveness in one aspect just because another is underdeveloped is a step backwards."
As such, how is this an acceptable system given that troll/int detection isn't working?
Because that system is working, just somewhat inefficiently. One fully working system and one working but inefficient system is better than two inefficient systems.
How is a system that, though not intended for it, was unintentionally designed to reward trolls by doing far more damage to the victim than the perpetrator while the system being built to catch trolls/inting was KNOWN to be so far behind that a majority of cases would get by with little if ANY action taken against them considering "perfectly acceptable and not worth changing at all because it is right?:
Because the only two solutions seem to be this:
Riot does not want the solution that takes a step backwards by enabling more chat toxicity, nor did they want to delay the solution to part of the toxicity problem simply because another wasn't as swift as they'd like.
AeroWaffle7 votesNo one is telling you to not get upset. You're just expected to control your behavior.
If I get upset that someone cut me off while driving to work, no one is expecting me to not be upset. But I'm still required that I refrain from driving recklessly despite being upset.
i404notfound1 votesand yet if you look at game play and end of game stats I didn't drive recklessly, yet players on player behavior, Rioters, and the automated system will throw you in jail for DARING to expect people to drive proper. Again, how is this a tolerated mindset? Why is player behavior so locked into a self destructive system that REWARDS the people who cut you off?
AeroWaffle3 votesBeing belligerent through chat, such as insulting them and flaming them is also against the rules. You don't have the right to do it just because you're upset.
i404notfound1 votesAgain avoiding the argument. This isnt a "I wasnt breaking the rules" argument. this is a "the rules are wrong" argument.
AeroWaffle4 votesWhy? Just because someone is insulting you doesn't make it right to insult them back. You're just lowering yourself to their level.
Many establishments, such as restaurants, bars, theaters, etc. don't care who starts an argument. They'll throw out anyone who was continuing the disturbance because you're bothering the other customers.
Why is it wrong that Riot would also follow this principle?
i404notfound1 votesAre you really gonna argue that a small text box on the bottom left hand side of the screen has a GREATER influence on your chances of winning than any in game action that can take place?
There is no volume on text, there is no forcing you to read it, there is no gold awarded or farm lost from words typed.
The restaurant analogy is broken because your trying to equate essentially what can go on a piece of paper with that which cannot be properly represented on said piece of paper.
Besides this, how in ANY way is it right to PERMA-BAN people who complain about trolls and int feeders instead of punishing said trolls or int feeders.
To follow your restaurant analogy as flawed as it is, this is the same as another customer spitting into your food just before it hit your table but the restaurant drags YOU out and bars you from entering ever again because you dared to complain about your food being tainted by another because "the food quality bot is hard to build".
Oleandervine4 votesIf the chat box was as insignificant as you claim, why are you clearly SEVERELY triggered by things you read there, to the point where you feel you have to retaliate?
If you believe that you and someone else spewing insults at each other doesn't immediately make the game uncomfortable and intolerable for the rest of your team, you are badly mistaken. No one wants to be in a game where their team is infighting and stopping to type insults at each other every two minutes. That DOES affect your chances of winning, as does causing your team to simply give up because they don't want to deal with the chat log bullshit anymore.
i404notfound1 votesbecause I'm not triggered by it. My complaints are made during downtime when I dont have to engage with the game. I dont ruin everyone's chances of winning by REFUSING to play UNLIKE the trolls and intentional feeder I'm complaining about. Yet you still insist I am the greater evil because?
Again, give me a solid gold value relative to each word typed as gold lost and I can understand this. Until then, your still trying to cure malaria by fixing the fever alone. Complaints are a sign there is a problem, complaints are NOT the problem until you decide to be so insular you can only blame the loudest voice.
How is this concept so hard to grasp?
This problem was solved in a simple shooter, I dont remember which battlefeild it was, with the simple invention of PTFO. Play The Fukking Objective. You werent banned for complaining, you werent banned for using words, you were banned if you were causing a measurable disadvantage to your team. Somehow you along with most of the community are trying to run player behavior with the POLAR OPPOSITE idea in mind, with mannerism and cencorship taking precedence over actual gameplay.
Oleandervine3 votesSo if I am to understand you, because being verbally harrassing or abrasive to your allies doesn't cause a distinct, immediately noticeable change in gold or gameplay, you are content to allow verbally harassing or being abrasive behavior towards people? That's not how the world works, and you know it. Just because you can't quantify in game terms how people being dicks in chat is affecting the game doesn't mean that affect doesn't exist or affect the game. People being dicks in the chat logs makes other people angry or causes them to mentally throw in the towel, both conditions of which will cause them to not play as good as they could with a focused concentration. If people aren't focused because they're too busy being angry or exhausted with dicks in the chat logs, that will cost you the game. It may not be immediately quantifiable, but breaking a player's focus and immersion in the game will cause the game to go badly, no matter how much you believe otherwise.
RallerenP1 votesNo. Riot and the automated system will punish you for intentionally smashing into someones car, because someone accidentally drove badly.
i404notfound1 votesWrong, it doesn't ban you for smashing into the car, it bans you for COMPLAINING about smashing into another and GETTING CRASHED INTO by another car. It does nothing to prevent you from getting into the crash or punish the one who crashed into you unless they chat about it.
RallerenP4 votesI don't think this car metaphor properly works.
Complaining only serves in making chances of a win less. You are only demoralizing everyone.
IT DOES NOTHING ELSE.
i404notfound1 votesWhy is it that "why hasnt top gotten ganks" get taken as an instult instead of "I should gank top"?
Complaints only serve to demoralize those who are too selfish to think of others and consider WHAT they are complaining about. This is infact the exact behavior I based this post on.
You would rather ban me because you dont like my COMPLAINTS rather than find WHY I am complaining.
RallerenP5 votesWhy is it that "why hasnt top gotten ganks" get taken as an instult instead of "I should gank top"?
I assume you meant "Can I get a gank top?" and not "I should gank top?"
The answer is that one is an accusation of the other player being bad, while the other is a simple question with no malicious intent. One is taken as an insult because it is HEAVILY implied that it is.
Complaints only serve to demoralize those who are too selfish to think of others and consider WHAT they are complaining about.
Explain how.
I say complaints demoralizis EVERYONE. Those who complain are the selfish ones who can't see their own mistakes.
You would rather ban me because you dont like my COMPLAINTS rather than find WHY I am complaining.
Yes. You're complaining is entirely unnessecary, harmful and intentional, whilst what you are complaining about isn't necessarily intentionally harmful.
i404notfound1 votesI assume you meant "Can I get a gank top?" and not "I should gank top?"
The answer is that one is an accusation of the other player being bad, while the other is a simple question with no malicious intent. One is taken as an insult because it is HEAVILY implied that it is.
Isnt it highly fragile of you to say that ANYTHING that can be accusation of a player being is ONLY an accusation of a player being bad? While not extreme, this is within a similar veign to feminist being "triggered" by literally every opposition. Do you not see how this fosters professional victimhood instead of actual thinking?
If I ask for a news paper and dont recieve one despite them appearing to be readily available is it logical to ask for a paper again or to ask why you didn't receive one? Similarly, despite the accusation and regardless of it's implication, why is it acceptable to ban someone for that choice of words instead of trying to improve yourself.
Explain how.
I say complaints demoralizis EVERYONE. Those who complain are the selfish ones who can't see their own mistakes.
Criticism isn't nice. It's not suppose to be. but if you choose to take it as pure insult and NOT AT ALL question yourself for it how does that make me, the complainer, selfish? It's positively insular that ANYTHING that isn't sunshine and rainbows is unacceptable behavior from you. This without even touching on the generalization that EVERYONE is ALWAYS demoralized by complaints as according to you everyone is incapable of processing them.
Yes. You're complaining is entirely unnessecary, harmful and intentional, whilst what you are complaining about isn't necessarily intentionally harmful.
oh, intentional feeding and trolling isn't intentional harmful. Your so full of sh!t. Reread that sentence and remember that we aren't agueing a specific player in a specific spot but assuming the troll in question IS trolling the complainer is ONLY complaining.
RallerenP2 votes[deleted]
i404notfound1 votesNot at all. One is directly meant as an insult, one isn't. You can't call anyone professional victims because the reciever of an insult is quite literally a victim.
It is insular because you cant comprehend the idea of something being both insulting and sudgestive. You know what the difference between "go left" and "go left idiot" is? Yes it is the insult, but the insult does NOT invalidate ALL OTHER INFORMATION. This is what I mean by calling you fragile. you see ONE WORD and lock out all other information because there cant possibly be ANYTHING useful coming from someone who isnt calling you perfect right?
This only works if we are talking about inting. If they accidentally dropped the newspaper trying to give you one, then asking why you didn't recieve it is really rude.
We are only talking about inting and trolling. For fuck sake read the context. I'm not talking about suspect anything because then you have to have a way to verify which we currently dont. So for the sake of MY argument I am asuming the inter is infact inting. You can cry about how unrealistic that is, but it doesn't affect my argument.
Telling him to improve himself to not drop newspapers in the future and berating him because he dropped it is the definition of harrassment.
I'm really starting to think you didnt even complete reading the opening post since your getting all high and mighty about harassment instead of the current point.
Because you are talking about complaints that are insults. You will NEVER get punished for telling someone to play safer or to not chase a kill in the future. (Just examples. The points is that you will not get punished for critizing someone constructively.)
You're selfish because just complaining only serves to make YOU feel better while demoralizing everone else.
Then maybe you should have mentioned that somewhere along the line. This is the first time you've even mentioned that we are only talking about inters. Give me any "critism" and by your own words I can undeniably twist it into an insult, simply because if I can find ANY implication of me not being good at ANYTHING you claim it is is ALWAYS harassment.
No really. Give the safest critism you think is possible I can prove it to you.