The desecration of the support role and lack of tanks

This Is Your Dad·May 29, 2017·1 votes·478 views

I see so many more players now playing ad carries or assassins as support with no gold income item or wards. They never do well enough to win. I see so many adc top laners that fail so hard even with an easy lane. What has gotten into these people? There's no way 3 adcs can win vs a rammus. No freaking way. And that's just what I had last game. I get that MOAR DAMAGE is MOAR EXCITING but come on people, they buffed tanks for a reason, play some! The one thing that seems to have destroyed my matches lately is lack of a good team comp. It's all damage all the time. It just doesn't work. So my actual question is, is it not punishable to play the support role with no intention of supporting? No sightstone, no wards, no support items, no defending the adc. Nothing coming from this guy, not even a "plz i can't support trade me" in champ select, which I would have happily done.

22 Comments

DeRagonSlayRMay 29, 20171 votes

What rank?

KartagiaMay 29, 20172 votes

Rank does not change game rules.

DeRagonSlayRJun 1, 20171 votes

This thread had nothing to do with the rules, it's about the game meta. Support is the most team dependent role in the game, and in silver and bronze solo queue where cooperation is the weakest carry and CC supports are going to be the most effective. I don't imagine a good Janna player being as effective as a support brand in those eles, hence my question.

KartagiaJun 1, 20172 votes

I am playing at silver / bronze, but when I played on gold (when I could team with platinum player), things are not as simple as you see. Brand can be played different ways. As can Annie, or Zyra. Only problem is the traditional supports who has way more limited kid which cannot be affected much by your item picks.

I hate current lack of co-operation as this is team game. I try to do my best to get team work together, but it is hard as I am called trolling as I define my strategy from game mechanical facts, not community opinion. Community opinion despises tanks, despises supports, and despises warding. Thus the community in general despises all that is really important in team. K/D/A contains not a single objective of the game. It is also really bad metrics as it does not give any situational information or any other context, and it also gives you false information: From K/D/A you cannot make difference between executed, first blood, killing spree gold giving, or enemy team scored kill. Thus, K/D/A is not useful at all, as you cannot use it alone. It can give you some tonal information with other details.

Only reason I play this game is good teams. Even when team loses, if they are good team, there is no shame losing to better enemy. There is plenty of shame going intentional feeding due support have creeps or kills.

This Is Your DadMay 29, 20171 votes

It's just a silver 5 game. See, I think lower elos have those guys that first time something without the skill to pull it off. I imagine some people at higher elo do make mistakes like this but the guy ruined the team dynamic by choosing to support as full ad pantheon, and our top lane lucian was really not doing well after they started teamfighting because I was the only person able to not get one shotted when providing peel, and I couldn't stop them from getting at the squishies by myself

DeRagonSlayRJun 1, 20171 votes

Support is also frustrating at lower elos, if you want to climb in the support role you either need to be creative or just really good. That's why carry supports became a thing and probably why that troll didn't care about what you think about his pick and build.

If a person is neglecting the needs of the team then report them, it is a team game and you deserve that much respect. Just remember that conventional supports aren't the only kind or necessarily the best supports

I climbed out of silver going support Nunu with exhaust/smite and counter JG. IDk if that will work now b/c the whole player base is better than it use to be back in season 4.

KartagiaJun 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Support is also frustrating at lower elos, if you want to climb in the support role you either need to be creative or just really good. That's why carry supports became a thing and probably why that troll didn't care about what you think about his pick and build.

If a person is neglecting the needs of the team then report them, it is a team game and you deserve that much respect. Just remember that conventional supports aren't the only kind or necessarily the best supports

I climbed out of silver going support Nunu with exhaust/smite and counter JG. IDk if that will work now b/c the whole player base is better than it use to be back in season 4.

And what if team is neglecting the needs of support? This is the main problem. Supports are seen role which should not take my kills or my creeps. Support are seen 2nd coming of JEsus who can save adc from mistakes adc did himself and then survive, or get flamed for dying.

If a support has an idea and seems to have off-meta build, I would help him. Most likely he know what he is doing unlike majority of adc players who took adc role as it is the king of the team with right to take all kills.

KartagiaMay 29, 20171 votes

I disagree with you. Gold gain items are not very good if you do not need it. And sad fact is current rules make harass supports way better than healer supports as healers cannot help team to win as easily. This is due overt focus on damage by Riot.

Harass support has been valid line of support from start of LOL. The fact you start on era of ignorant idiot community does not change facts. If you follow alternate facts, the problem is you, not facts.

This Is Your DadMay 29, 20171 votes

The only thing he was harassing was his adc.

Kei143May 29, 20171 votes

GP+5 / SS are just META items.

When I play Bot lane and see that I don't have peel, I make sure I get enough sustain (18-0-12 w/ warlords) and position correctly, so I don't need to rely on them. I sometimes take even exhaust on marksman.

Plus at lower ELOs, people don't know what they are doing anyways. Why would anyone rely on proper peel?

This Is Your DadMay 29, 20171 votes

At lower elo teams fall apart due to not following a meta because they don't trust their ally to not be an absolute idiot. Playing a support with no actual support kit that is a melee range champion with inadequate harass is and then treating the support role as a joke often creates a rift between teammates. In the end we had 3 adcs and they had 3 tanks. I chose to tank because we lacked any but it wasn't enough to stop my 3 adcs from getting one shotted because 2 of the other tanks got around me. And let me tell you, a rammus on three adcs is like a fat boy at an ice cream parlor.

Kei143May 29, 20171 votes

pretty sure your ADCs didn't get last whisper early aggainst rammus. either did they get life steal and MR.

Support kit is not necessary in low ELO, everthing works in low ELO. Even garen support. Death is the best CC.

This Is Your DadMay 29, 20171 votes

He also refused to communicate with his adc or anyone else on the team. We didn't start out being negative towards the guy. I always try to give a guy a chance to show me why he picked that champ but when you don't communicate any intentions at all and just play the whole game that way, it starts to seem like a lack of thought was involved in picking that champion.

Kei143May 29, 20171 votes

super off meta champ, in a weird off role, facing a stronger opponent, gameplay typically ends up going in the wrong direction.

While everything works at low ELO, it's the consistency that matters when climbing. My urgot tanky support (VS assassin comp) has worked a few times, but certainly not consistent enough that I'll say it works everytime.

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anti Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=kUlABrrk,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-29T05:15:15.308+0000)

I see so many more players now playing ad carries or assassins as support with no gold income item or wards. They never do well enough to win.

in matchmaking Everyone wins 50%. you might as well play something that is fun if you get support because you are losing half your games no matter what you do.

This Is Your DadMay 29, 20172 votes

In matchmaking, the guy with a real support wins more.

MUSHROOM MIDGETMay 29, 20172 votes

wrong. you should study how matchmaking works

KartagiaJun 1, 20171 votes

I am sorry, but how often do you play support? Most players talking like you do, despise playing support, and have very narrow way of seeing what supporting is. This is due the fact they think support is servant and slave of adc. This has never been the case among support players, as support players have best understanding of game tactics. It is the hardest and the most important role.

Why players like you think support is not important? Answer is quite simple: You yourself cannot play team at all. You cannot play with other players, but instead take role you think as ruler of the team. You have no social skills, as you think ruler says and team work is that others do what you say. I suggest you leave your house. You go to talk with people. Talk with them as peers, not as royal subjects. In reality those co-operating with others are way more successful than the "takers" who only look out for number one - their own arse. There has been several studies that takers only poison the well and destroy productivity of any community. And we have living perfect example of taker ruler in White House at the moment.

KhNj5GilJ9Jun 9, 20171 votes

So you encourage people to troll do you?

KartagiaJun 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

So you encourage people to troll do you?

Define trolling. IF you define it "playing unlike majority of players play", yes I do encourage it. I do encourage people go off-meta especially on low elo, as most players there cannot play the way LCS does. Meta is not just build. Meta contains tactical level majority of players cannot grasp.

Every season past 1st the level of skill of players have tanked. The smart play of team on season 1 is now trolling. Stupid play which got you reported on season 1 is the way to play for majority. Thus, yes, I do encourage trolling in the way majority of unskilled players see it.

If I use real definition of trolling used on season 1, no, I do not encourage intentional losing of game, or having fun bashing enemy team players. But this definition has been lost with player skill.

KirotheImmortalMay 29, 20171 votes

Why do you make this sound like its common? I rarely see this shit. And anyway in bronze its more valid to go something you can carry with as a support. I play adc and i prefur having an ap lux or annie. And as someone mentioned healer supports are always getting hit by riot. Riot hates medic supports. Theres only a few and riot hits them as soon as they show signs of beeing in meta. Hell. Sona is stronger as an ap support then healer support.

This Is Your DadMay 29, 20171 votes

ranged mages are doable, but melee ad carries are not.