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Discussion about this " Support Singed " incident

IPlayToTiltYou··2 votes·1,548 views

So a lot of heat has been felt from someone being suspended playing support singed using smite to cheese the enemy jungler from a buff. Now I made a previous thread being the memer I am and taking the (excuse my language ) piss out of the situation, taking a video from a well-known singed streamer. As soon as I posted that thread after a few minutes it instantly got removed ; maybe from a bot or a tired Rioter who is tired of the backlash expierienced from this.

Honestly, I don't get the problem. The meta has been broken before,countless youtubers such as Brofesco Anklespankin, even in the LCS. Don't think we didn't notice that cheeky miss fortune support instalock. It proved quite well, as with the singed support as well. I really hate the "meta" sure it makes everything neat and orderly and give you a better chance to win, but it feels too restrictive you know.

Anyways, in the end riot suspended the person's account due to negativity received from his team mates. This situation is equivalent to " Hey you are doing something different that is doing okay but people don't like it, so sorry but suck it up and enjoy the detention. " Another thread has been saying " refusing to cooperate with the team ". I'm sorry but that is just absolutely ridiculous, from what it seems the guy says that he is just going to steal a buff, after that he whole-heartedly supports the adc. Riot created a champion who use this idea of roaming in the jungle leaver their ADC in their Plat series being harassed by an enemy laner. ( I'll give you a hint, it's this guy ->Bard ) Would that mean all summoners playing this champion are now banned/suspended due to being non-compliant to the ADC?

Sorry for re-kindling a fire but this has been bothering for days now and I just wanted to give my opinion in a form other than a comment. Anyways, what do you think guys? [slayer-pantheon-popcorn] [zombie-brand-mindblown]

23 Comments

Sona Ping7 votes

Honestly, I don't get the problem.

Short answer: "Meta" and champion choice have nothing to do with it. He queued as support (where you get shorter queue times) but bought talisman and jungled instead. Spending 90% of the time clearing camps and only going to lane when you have Ghost up or to take farm when the laner is dead is not supporting, that is jungling. Typing a paragraph where you go "No, no, this is 'Support Singed'. I'm not jungling, this is a strategy " does not change the fact that is jungling.

With all the "mid or feed" players or guys announcing that they will be playing Top and autolocking even though they got ADC, taking another player's assigned role is a bannable offense so he got a two-week ban for it. And that's not even getting into all the BS things he did that griefers do, like smiting buffs away from his team's jungler.

Your impression is wrong. He did not "wholeheartedly support the ADC", he barely went to lane and falsely reports his teammates for intentional feeding.

Kartagia1 votes

THus the point is Support has strict limitations set by players who never play support. Players who never respect support. And this punishment is due the fact support dared to be better than they. You seem to ignore the fact, most players use reports for vengeance, not for justice. And too many people are so petty, they cannot endure the fact someone weaker in their prejudices is stronger.

Apparently you have strong belief support should be tagging along with adc. I hated it when RIot started to back that and limit support play style. Support can support any other role. THe fact is ADCS are so weak and bad players, they cannot survive 1 vs 2 most of the time. It is not fault of support. It is fault of adc who refuses to learn to play.

midnight oil242 votes

I'm a support main, and I think that your point as support is that you are supposed to back up the adc. That's why bard's chimes spawn in his general vicinity and he has health packs to drop. It's so that the adc can survive while bard is gone. Also, I know a ton of incredibly strong adc players. You're assuming about everyone, and you know what they say about assuming.

Desolas Arterius2 votes

That's not how reports work at all. A report is only considered valid if the player being reported is in clear violation of the ToS/SC. If they did nothing wrong, then the report is thrown out.

There is no such thing as vengeance reporting, so please don't throw that around as "Fact". False reports are thrown out and instead hamper the credibility of your own account if you are prone to reporting anyone and everyone.

Also, no one is saying the Support HAS to tag along with the ADC. What people are saying is the support needs to support the** team**. The ADC is the weakest early game, so it's better to have the support in botlane to help with that early game lead. Does not mean the support can't roam correctly to help other lanes or get objectives. But what the "meta" has found is that having a support in botlane is the most efficient strategy to helping that lane win. Especially in early game when the ADC is weakest before they get enough gold for their first item.

But the most important part about this is communication. If you are not communicating with your team that you want to Support top or mid, and they aren't agreeing with it, then you shouldn't do it. The majority of the playerbase is used to a support helping bot in the first few minutes of the game, so trying to change it last minute is not going to help anyone, and instead disrupt the game.

This is not because "supports dared to be better". This is because people lack the ability to communicate effectively when they want to try off-meta strategies that are vastly different from the norm (hence "off-meta").

Kartagia1 votes

I would hope the things would be like you stated. Unfortunately there is no evidence that is true. RIot has done all they can to remove all references to the scoring system they never dismantled. All information Riot has given out is the fact system is made more and more automatic without human involvement.

Communication is important, but I constantly get STFU from players who cannot ward. I get called troll more often than 50% of games. The sad fact is MAJORITY if players are not honest. They are not playing team. Nor they are following summoner's code. They cannot basic facts of game but instead goes with feelings and opinions. Opinions like despising warding and assists as they are something weak gets. People who use ks every time someone saves their ass, but does not give them kill.

Desolas Arterius1 votes

Some info for you to read regarding your questions:

False reports.

Examples of Reportable Behavior by Riot.

Examples of Acceptable Behavior by Riot.

As for the system, it's more of a half and half. The system automates reports filed by players by creating a case against that player. The more they receive the more the system files them under that case. When enough reports are made towards that player, it is then flagged for review by a Rioter. Sometimes faster or slower depending on the severity.

Sometimes the reports don't even go through the automated phase and skip right to manual review due to the nature. But claming the system has almost no human involvement is false. Mostly because we as a community help the system learn what is acceptable and what isn't. The system learns and adapts to what the majority in the community find acceptable, and it also learns from what Riot finds acceptable as well (see Summoner's Code). It's a balance of automated and human interaction by the players and by Riot. And in all honesty, the IFS is way better than what the Tribunal used to be. There are more cases of players reforming behavior, and less cases of error. It's slowly helping create a better environment compared to Season 1-2 when players could get away with a lot more and pretty much ruin games via extreme trolling/griefing.

Kartagia1 votes

Community does not teach the system well. Everyone who has basic understanding how AI teaching works know this. Community only gives negative cases - cases which are not valid. AI cannot learn from that as they need "this is not violation" to learn. I am worried for the fact the blatant flame I get due playing harass support with smite, is not leading to punishments. This is due scoring system you totally ignored. All data seems to indicate Riot still uses the old system.

I give you one case: one person starts flame on support. Support mutes him. He continues to agitate the team leading team to report support. Support reports all players involved, but due scoring system, these cases are considered false. Instead the system takes it "valid report" for agitator and his companions for report the support. Support gets punishment due "arguing against flamers" as Riot cannot admit the system is broken. The system ignores totally the behavior of other players. That makes the system totally flawed ignoring important information whether the case is valid or not.

IF system is automatic, it does not matter the training data comes from community: the system is still automatic. If human would sort out the data and match it "this is valid" or "this is false report", then there would be human involved. For some reason people have totally false understanding how AI teaching works.

Desolas Arterius1 votes

I'm curious if you read any of the updates Riot put up detailing how the IFS works when they first implemented it? Because a lot of that is answered in their posts. The "point" system doesn't exist. Your reports only become invalid if you consistently file false reports against a player. Every report is still checked to ensure they're valid. Though since so many reports are filed a day an automated system is usually the one checking it to ensure the legitimacy of the reports. It's not a plus/minus system that tallies your success rates on what you got right and wrong. Obviously we all make mistakes. What it prevents is players spamming reports against anyone every game.

In the scenario you described, the agitator would still receive a successful report against them, and the "victim" doesn't get punished if all he did was report the team, even if the Support reported the ones not directly involved. The "victim" only gets punished if they showed unacceptable toxic behavior in turn to the original toxic player (which Riot does have examples of what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior in their Support page and Summoner's Code).

But that is a separate issue. Usually because it involves people being responsible for their own actions, and to never fight fire with fire.

Instant Feedback TLDR.

IFS and how it works.

Player Behavior: Punishments

Kartagia1 votes

Instant and fast punishment is good. These news are good news. Unfortunately RIOt did not put this on front page of client... And I bet there is nothign of this on EUNE forums. I hope Riot removes childish "colorful language and cursing" from the list of violations. Colorful language is not verbal abuse.

I have got report card for defending victim of flamer and trying to get team work regardless the actions of flamer. That was all on reform card. I do sincerely hope such days are past. At least Riot admit the punishment of singed support was not based on facts. They still did not revoke the ban nor reimbuse the support. Not communicating is what riot tell us to do when someone attacks us. And people do start that flaming on champion selection. I do hope Riot AT LAST got that part of game logged. They have promised it for 4 years now.

Desolas Arterius1 votes

This was over a year ago and it was on the front page of the website. The client back then didn't have the little "news" slots, so they didn't really have a way to put this out to everyone. So unless you followed news sites or the main page you probably got left out in the dark (I'll admit, outside of NA Riot doesn't do that great sharing info on major changes).

Colorful language and cursing usually involve direct insults towards players. Such as "You're a fucking retard shit face". This has no reason to be in the game, nor should people be flinging that towards others so willy nilly. Obviously cursing is fine. You can say "Fuck" randomly in a game and you wont get punished for it. I know I have. But when you direct such language towards an individual then you can be punished. That's explained in the Riot Support Page if you're interested under Acceptable/Unacceptable behavior examples.

The smite support was a whole slew of issues, but it boiled down to failure to communicate and be respectful towards allies. I mean, it could have gone either way, but I do understand Riot's stance on it.

Also, pregame and postgame chat is recorded, but isn't usually used in a case against a player unless specified. Such as writing in your report "harassment started in pregame/postgame chat". They can easily pull up those logs, but for clarity sake they usually leave them out of reports unless requested. I've successfully reported plenty of players that were toxic in pregame chat, so I definitely can say it's been working.

HexaDecimel2 votes

As a support I believe it is important to assist the adc early, I will ward, zone the enemy, and protect my partner. My goal is to get them ahead and try and secure the first tower.

If the adc is backing and I am not required to protect the turret I will start to roam, I will ward the enemy jungle and ward for my midlaner. I may help mid secure a kill or blow a flash. I will join my jungler in a quick invade and back him up.

I will help my team take objectives and even randomly gank top if the opportunity presents itself. I will clear wards, keep vision, watch the minimap, make some objective calls, and build according to my teams needs.

The champion I choose is not the issue, the issue is am I filling a role that will help my whole team. Am I communicating and cooperating. There is nothing strict or limiting about being a support.

Leaving my adc high and dry, stealing jungle camps from my jungler, and refusing to work together with my team is a big issue.

BeatzBoyFTW4 votes

Riot created a champion who use this idea of roaming in the jungle leaver their ADC in their Plat series being harassed by an enemy laner. ( I'll give you a hint, it's this guy ->Bard )

At least Bard can place health ports for his ADC & he doesn't require killing monsters to gain XP when he can just collect chimes simply by walking to it instead of taking 5 minutes killing monsters, plus he can get back to lane faster with the bonus movement speed from chimes & his E. And Singed on the other hand, well, he has none of those.

Bídoof2 votes

Theres been like 19 other discussions on this topic lol

IPlayToTiltYou1 votes

So I guess people are getting tired of the whole situation and on the downvote train?

IPlayToTiltYou1 votes

Such a shame I tried to write thought out rant only to be downvoted. So.

Bídoof1 votes

Yeah like, everyones tired of people picking sides, its done lol

Kartagia1 votes

No, majority is down voting every article not supporting their opinion. And in Post-Factual world, RIot has supported that kind of behavior for ages. If you criticize majority behavior, they down vote you. Enjoy playing support, as support is never part of majority.

Sarutobi2 votes

{quoted}

So I guess people are getting tired of the whole situation and on the downvote train?

it could be that people are tired of this especially since it's "old" news. Or it's probably because you have a lot of misinformation in your post.

You are making it out to be that Riot only ban him for picking an Off Meta champion, when that was never the case. It was more because he wasnt actually communicating with his teammates. You brushed it off and even gave false information (yet again) claiming that he was. Copy/pasting what you plan to do, ignoring your teammates response is not communicating. You are forcing someone to only play how you want to play and that is wrong. That was the main reason why he was ban. You shouldn't be forcing people to do anything. Had he actually discuss his plan with his teammates and accepted feedback he wouldnt have gotten punished. But he didnt learn from his previous punishment and that is what happen when you move up in the tiers of punishment!

Kartagia1 votes

IF this not communicating with team is case, you got banned by FOLLOWING RIOT SUGGESTION.

RIOT HAS TOLD US FOR 3 SEASONS WE SHOULD MUTE ALL, as Riot cannot and will not do anything to flaming majority who does not report others behaving like them.

Kei1432 votes

maybe you should read the whole story first

midnight oil242 votes

Their problem seems to lie more in the lack of communication. Sure it can work, but it requires coordination, and I sure as hell couldn't suddenly adapt to having my lane support be a singed that runs off and leaves me alone without prior knowledge and a plan on how to survive on my own.

Pandemic Punch1 votes

Break the fucking meta wide open

Xsett1 votes

This is not a "meta" issue so much as it is a Griefing issue . I had someone in one of my games play Singed Support they proceeded to go top (my lane) and proxy and starve me out so i ended up bot lane level 1 vs a level 3 lane can you guess how that worked out ? i had no money for Support items nothing and i was Yorick. game lasted like 25-30 and no one on my team left saying boy that was fun. This is the same thing to me are just running it up mid ...its not my idea of fun but i am sure it is someones. but i can tell you its not fun for the other 4 people on that team . i think the 3 Voting choices are kinda unfair in that i am fine with people breaking meta but not if it causes Grief and ruins the game for people.

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