Say you get a chat-mute, you play through it then get another chat-mute, play through it and still don't change. You get punished for being toxic and what do you get? A ban. Right because being toxic in chat, CHAT. Being toxic in chat gets you banned from playing the GAME. Not inting in game, nothing bad in the game but you still get banned from the game. I think that's stupid, just make the 4th offense a perma-mute.
RallerenP8 votesI think that's stupid,
And I think you need to read up on the system.
We used to have this. Infinitely scaling chat-restrictions. And do you know what happened? People started inting instead, and inting is waaaaaay harder to detect.
Riot experimented with this alot, and found that people who recieve higher than 25 games chat restriction have a VERY high chance of never changing and just begin inting instead.
Anyways, the system isn't the problem. If you're toxic, then YOU are the problem. It's only about 0.006% of all account that have ever been permabanned, so it's not even like it affects the vast majority of players, only the absolute most toxic ones. And the absolute most toxic ones shouldn't even have a say in the system IMO.
kaling 2321 votesLies Lies and More lies.
Int'ing is actually easier to detect, i mean if we are talking about 0-10-0, Yes, you cannot identify if the player was int'ing but at the same time no one says to themselves "Hey this dude pissed me off, gonna run into fountain 10 times", No they say "Oh you think im trolling" Runs into fountain "Ops, i went a little to far" or something like this, this is actually very easy to dectect but instead riot using there penality on people who been flammed and "Fight back" the real toxic players.
Also lets get this straight, the % of toxic accounts being banned is a much higher number, your not only forgetting that there are some account inactive which they do count, but also Hundred and Hundred of accounts are being "Botted" to lvl 30 and being sold, and why do people do that? because they are toxic and get account ban. So based off that logic to say .006% are toxic is false, if i had to guess from playing since season 4, its more about 30% at least toxic of some sort in games, and 60% Banned from toxic behavior.
kaling 2321 votesAlso people who usually int go for troll builds, example shaco building Tear's, and yes that is identified and yes that is a perma ban, so in reality
Actually identifying toxic player < Banning int'ers are easier.
kaling 2321 votesI am curious to why two people i responded too( Riot advsior and one of riot chosen summoner) have stopped responding? Did i not answer the questions that where asked in a civil and understandable manner? but check dis out.
https://gyazo.com/46e539b19d1075df4bb0ea3645a01adc https://gyazo.com/a39d2da31ea6eec76c81776b549cf4a0 https://gyazo.com/6cbc38bf4a9f0c361be183fa52d9e185 https://gyazo.com/5e20a6bf319a93babeb999df6be23f53 https://gyazo.com/8060f6e3ba00e4292a670e1acfad13a7 https://gyazo.com/84bdec1654cf3bdae2942351ee53c222 https://gyazo.com/607f308e0c4d3889fc0f45de498752da
Tell me if you notice a pattern, because the pattern i notice is when i explain a previous topic my Like or Dis-like toward the reply goes down into the negative, but im curious to why? Even tho explaining how i feel towards this idea/How the community feels overall/True facts unlike Bettanchleger which stated random stuff i have never mention and clarified his own confusion its not a popular "Upvote"
Once again the people who use the forum aka the people who believe there non-toxic ways gave them a sense of "Superiority" is the real problem in the community, i mean if this is untrue then im about 19 hours in waiting for a response on the TYLER1 reply which broke all of "False statements" Bett.... have implied and 14+ for a RIOT advisor to reply on the fact i have provided above that disagree's with Riot player support lead. So what is true and what is false?
ModPrandine5 votes[{quoted}](name=kaling 232,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=evEusqHE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-05-14T23:13:38.987+0000)
Lies Lies and More lies.
Int'ing is actually easier to detect, i mean if we are talking about 0-10-0, Yes, you cannot identify if the player was int'ing but at the same time no one says to themselves "Hey this dude pissed me off, gonna run into fountain 10 times", No they say "Oh you think im trolling" Runs into fountain "Ops, i went a little to far" or something like this, this is actually very easy to dectect but instead riot using there penality on people who been flammed and "Fight back" the real toxic players.
Also lets get this straight, the % of toxic accounts being banned is a much higher number, your not only forgetting that there are some account inactive which they do count, but also Hundred and Hundred of accounts are being "Botted" to lvl 30 and being sold, and why do people do that? because they are toxic and get account ban. So based off that logic to say .006% are toxic is false, if i had to guess from playing since season 4, its more about 30% at least toxic of some sort in games, and 60% Banned from toxic behavior.
Trolls and inters do get banned but because they're getting smarter about how they avoid detection* (and because Riot wants to try to avoid punishing innocent players as much as possible) it's harder to catch them in the act compared to simple chat-related offenses. Gameplay related offenses when proven to be on purpose are assigned a 2-week ban as the first punishment. In case you don’t believe me on this point here are some examples of gameplay trolls being banned. Yes it’s just a few examples, but it proves that they do get punished.
*By smarter I mean by not making it blatantly obvious that they're inting. The more "creative" one per-say forgo the use of trolll builds and outrageously poor kdas to make it look like they weren't inting when really they were. While it may be easier to tell on the inside looking out that's not always the case from the outside looking in if you know what I mean.
kaling 2321 votesIm sorry? did i hear this right...... someone please... i need to understand what this Riot "advisor" just said....
"*By smarter I mean by not making it blatantly obvious that they're inting. The more "creative" one per-say forgo the use of trolll builds and outrageously poor kdas to make it look like they weren't inting when really they were. While it may be easier to tell on the inside looking out that's not always the case from the outside looking in if you know what I mean."
Lord have i finally caught a riot employee being terrible as i said i have.... thank the lord.....
Here we are again! The case of “Unusual Pick that Throws A Game on Its head” vs “The Teammates going WTF Is Going On”.
If you’re just tuning in we previously covered this topic with a similar case in December: “Support Singed isn't bannable, but that's not the point”.
We feel that the situation between these two edge cases are very similar. But it’s obvious we need to keep updating a few processes to smooth out any rare repeats in the future. And rare is what we’d call this; it’s a very unique edge case that seems to only present itself once every few months among thousands of audits that we process.
Let’s re-iterate our stance from before:
~~_**Q: Can I get banned for choosing a champion or strategy that is outside the current meta?
A: 100% no. Choosing a champion or strategy outside of the current meta is not a factor we take into account when reviewing accounts. On any given day tens of thousands of players are making unusual picks in the game and they’ll never receive penalties in any form.**_~~
Q: So why does this issue keep coming up? What makes it different?
A: Riot Gromp said it best in the previous post when they stated: “...common sense and good sportsmanship say that experimenting players need to clearly communicate intent and win conditions to their teammates.” League of Legends is a team game and sometimes the biggest challenge can be coordinating with 4 other strangers who share a common goal; victory. If a player is going to rewrite the rules for the rest of their team then there is more pressure to properly communicate to everyone what they want the plan to be, and what they think everyone should do to achieve it.
But wait! Communication doesn’t stop after you press the Enter button on your keyboard; and that’s where we saw a problem in this particular case. All of us need to be aware of the difference of communicating “with” someone vs. communicating “at” someone. Telling your team what you’re going to do and then ignoring them isn’t really working with them it’s holding them hostage. Telling your team what you want to do and actually working towards a common plan is a central part to playing any team based game.
In this case what we observed was an expert Nunu counter-jungler throwing the meta on it’s head with a respectable win rate of 53%. While pretty impressive on it’s own, we also found that nearly 50% of their games were reported by teammates as frustrating and unfun. Keep in mind, this isn’t just teammates in losing games, this is teammates across all of his games; victories included.
The message was pretty clear to us, this player is serious about Making Nunu Great Again but they are leaving a trail of dissatisfaction, frustration, and anger in their wake.
Winning is not the end all be all of League. We want players to have fun but not at the expense of teammates. Ideally this means players will coordinate among themselves in a given match and react to the unique circumstances they end up in. If a player is consistently forcing “their vision” on the rest of the team and refusing to adapt to their needs we reserve the right to intervene. That’s what happened here (and before with the Singed case); players cried out how terrible the experience was for them and we intervened.
Moving forward we’re going to keep updating our processes for these edge cases. We will still be on the lookout for situations where a player is creating a really negative experience for everyone else and we will intervene when necessary. In this case it’s undeniable that TakeTheDraw wants to win even if their approach leaves a lot to be desired. The effects on others in his games were enough for us to lock the account and we stand by that. But our agents were not properly prepared with a process to handle this edge case when they wrote in and that is on me. I will be working with the team to clarify an escalation process that emphasizes clearer feedback and opens the door for ban reductions if we believe that someone can make changes to their play style allowing them to continue crushing the meta but not at the expense of their teammates.
^A statement pulled from your Player Behavior Lead. Please notice the Bold/Italics/Quote because that just undermined your statement.
To what degree do you consider troll is what i have to ask.
Example if bannable :
Ekko build's Nashor tooth
Ekko build's crit/ad and build Essence reaver
Riven builds Triforce, even tho the mana doesnt apply to riven because she has none, the Sheen+Triforce passive is a lot better then Clever depending on the situation (Laning wise)
Yasou builds like riven; Hydra+Cleaver+CDR boot's
i have so many more but id just like to point out according to your Player behavior staff these are non meta builds and they should not be punished, so when you say "*By smarter I mean by not making it blatantly obvious that they're inting. The more "creative" one per-say forgo the use of trolll builds and outrageously poor kdas to make it look like they weren't inting when really they were. While it may be easier to tell on the inside looking out that's not always the case from the outside looking in if you know what I mean." it doesnt make sense, because the only reference i could imagine you saying is building AP/CDR on a pure AD champ or vice versal. So here is the real question, why is Nightblue3 still playing in league?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmbt4i1Sbe0 - *NEW* BEEMO JUNGLE SPOTLIGHT | (21 kilIs MAX ATTACK TEEMO) THE BEST SKIN EVER | HE'S SO CUTE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-J_7rUuRZw - TAHM KENCH JUNGLE IS ACTUALLY BROKEN!! NEW META CRIT BUILD | IS THERE ANY COUNTERPLAY?! - Nightblue3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DzGyo9LtNU - CAN I CARRY ANY HARDER?? THE FASTEST JUNGLER | NEW CRAZY BUILD (22 KILLS RAMMUS JUNGLE) - Nightblue3
Here are just some "Videos" of Nightblue3 playing out of meta champions with some out of meta builds. Now lets think rationally.... Nightblue3 can do this because he is of a higher "skill level" (I do not believe this is true, i believe NightBlue3 just knows his Micro mechanic's well but in reality he plays in a elo where teamwork is a thing unlike Bronze-Gold, so i do not believe is good, but he has a decent amount of knowledge about the game and his game play to rank up, that also has to due with patience ) So i ask you, these video's are linked to Nightblue3 with different accounts, lets not even get too how many alts and the rules regarding ults is because we could go on forever, but he clearly post these videos of "troll builds" and here is the final final issue im pushing, Nightblue3 is human..... just like someone commented on me before on a different post, "Everyone feds, everyone loses lane and everyone have bad games", what happen when Nightblue3 fed's one game with these item build? are we giving the insta ban? i mean he keeps posting these videos with different alts/his own acc.... where is the penalty? i mean if anything hes showing viewers its ok to go out of meta builds aka troll builds which then you punish us for doing aswell.... hilarious :D
The funniest part about this is all riot support staff/employee's just look at the big picture, they look at build and KDA like you said, that might work for that particular issue but not ALL THE ISSUE'S.... Toxic shouldnt be looked as one side punishment it should be reviewing the game play or watching key parts of the game and arguments and see who was truly in the wrong. If a Jungler flames a mid laner for missing the finishing blow or vice versal, the person who reviews these "penalties" need to look more then stupid key trigger words, kys, your bad , blah blah blah.... but it also works like a double edge sword, because from ACTUALLY REVIEWING THE GAMEPLAY~yes riot, you need to give work to your support staff holly molly and you see that the person who was able to finish him off let him go shouldnt that person be held to blame? i mean i dont know how it would work for low elo, but from a certain silver rank they need to understand or hopefully understand that 1 kill is a snowball and that could be a game changer from early to late.
Instead we are viewing the "Outcome" of the game just like you said, but somehow this "Troll" streamer still post these video's? it is not ironic? you say equality but in the end streamers get more of a right, just like Tyler1 who has been "Banned" from league for about 1 year max??? while every year since early season 6 i have been asking for help to remove the ban on my first ranked account for being passive aggressive like currently. but nope, all i get is a Riot support player saying a generic sentence like this "Your ticket has been answered in blah blah blah, we will not lift the ban, please see this dude message because i dont want to deal with you".
So once more i ask....
Tyler1 has been "Perma" ban for 1 year trolling high elo summoners which include Plat-Diamond-Challenger-Masters-LCS players, while i have been banned for about 3 years because i was passive aggressive to some bronze kids and they wont even give me a new response.
Now your saying troll builds need to be address more frequently, i just gave you a streamer who promotes troll builds that work, where is his penalty? very lost..... 
kaling 2321 votesAlso i am very sorry for using black quotes ...... i had no idea it was this different from usual text...#RIP i will try to fix it if possible without messing up the paragraph:C
Bettnachleger6 votesTyler1 has been "Perma" ban for 1 year trolling high elo summoners which include Plat-Diamond-Challenger-Masters-LCS players, while i have been banned for about 3 years because i was passive aggressive to some bronze kids and they wont even give me a new response.
You should inform yourself before you spread false information. Tyler1 never got his accounts back. He's allowed to stream again after they lifted his ID ban. But his 20+ accounts? All remained banned ...
Edit: He got ID banned. And the ban was indefinite, not permanent. His accounts got permabanned.
kaling 2321 votesYou should inform yourself before you spread false information. Tyler1 never got his accounts back. He's allowed to stream again after they lifted his ID ban. But his 20+ accounts? All remained banned ...
Edit: He got ID banned. And the ban was indefinite, not permanent. His accounts got permabanned.
Nothing was i said was false, i think you misread and lack the intent to understand. I never said he received the account, Tyler1 was perma ID ban, yes i do realize it is an indefinite ban, but you must understand something your not seeing, the point of the ID ban is to stop the streamer at all cost, is this not true?
Tyler1 toxic = streaming toxicity/promoting it =League ban acc's (Like you said 20+ acc with his main still ban)= he continues to stream and be toxic = League has to do an ID ban which is indefinite.
Now lets compare to an average person
Summoner toxic = penalty= peanlty= Perma ban
Now let's compare between tyler1 and a regular summoner, u know what the difference is? people will donate a lot of money or alts acc to tyler1 while any other regular summoner needs to pay for it, now that we see the difference we can understand the the ID ban was placed for "twitch acc" but once again why would tyler1 care about this acc's? in general why would he? the goal, correct if mistaken, to stream a game on twitch.tv is basically saying you want people to watch and donate, so once again are we letting tyler1 off with the perma ID? the same concept as perma bad for a regular summoner? but now...... tyler1 got off the ID ban and playing. Here is the kicker, we all know that during tyler1 "break" he still had a league account, and he still played that game from my info on League baords/reddit, Yes, i understand you cant ban every "draven main", but in all due respect tyler1 has a play style you can notice from far, so if it was just sitting a monitoring an acc of tyler1 it could have definitely been spotted and the worst part in all of this is that Riot allowed tyler1 to stream because he was showing "reform"....
here is a statement i found from RIOT, correct if me i am wrong once more....
"Tyler1 will be Unbanned as of January 2018 if his accounts are found clean and satisfactory."
this is where i find trouble understanding riot and questioning there motivates because the purpose of the ID ban was to stop him from playing and streaming which was the equivalence of a banned account for a streamer. From this statement you can understand that tyler1 was still indeed playing and riot gave him a "Reform" option even tho the "ID ban" was placed on his stream, but wait.......... I am very very very lost....... Doesnt this statement from riot kinda assume they know he had more acc's? i mean we literally just agreed that his 20 +accounts he streamed on where banned.... so how did he play? why does riot assume he is playing? What "Logs" did tyler1 send that showed riot, Hey the most toxic player in league history has become clean...
Oh gosh darn it.... i remember now... HE WAS TOXIC, trolled in game if he didnt receive a gank, he talked smack on his stream about players(Which sadly i dont even think riot watch's his stream, because personal belief is that he found a loop hole, instead of talking smack about the people he is playing with in chat, he just claps them on his stream which sadly is still promoting toxicity......)
so lets talk about what we learned, when comparing the most famous toxic streamer to a normal summoner we see that an ID ban is basically a Perma ban? how so? ill explain once more.... to a streamer, streaming is basically getting donations while playing, Riot put a ID ban so he would stop playing that game, exactly like a "Perma" ban on an account, so i ask you once why does tyler1, the most toxic league player throughout the seasons , prompt's toxicity, and best troll release from the ID ban, does it not feel impartial at this point? Where does the "equality" as riot keep spouting come in? im very lost in the whole equality with punishments but streamers punishments dont affect them as much as it affects the normal summoners....
TrulyBland2 votes[{quoted}](name=kaling 232,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=evEusqHE,comment-id=0000000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-15T14:03:30.242+0000)
the point of the ID ban is to stop the streamer at all cost, is this not true?
Yes... fom streaming, and for an indefinite amount of time.
Your entire argument is built upon the false premise that an ID ban is the "equivalent" of a permaban for a streamer, but it's not. A permaban is the one and only equivalent of a permaban. And ID ban is by any meaningful definition a harsher punishment. A punishment that "regular" players are never even subjected to. So where is the equality indeed, given that regular players are clearly in a more favorable position.
As for Riot knowing Tyler had other accounts: Yeah, because he obviously didn't actually stop playing, and never pretended that he stopped playing. The trouble isn't in knowing that he owns other accounts, it's knowing which accounts are his and being able to prove it. Apart from that, an ID ban is primarily a means by which they prevent that person from streaming their games. Preventing somebody from playing the game is next to impossible.
kaling 2321 votesYes... fom streaming, and for an indefinite amount of time.
Your entire argument is built upon the false premise that an ID ban is the "equivalent" of a permaban for a streamer, but it's not. A permaban is the one and only equivalent of a permaban. And ID ban is by any meaningful definition a harsher punishment. A punishment that "regular" players are never even subjected to. So where is the equality indeed, given that regular players are clearly in a more favorable position.
As for Riot knowing Tyler had other accounts: Yeah, because he obviously didn't actually stop playing, and never pretended that he stopped playing. The trouble isn't in knowing that he owns other accounts, it's knowing which accounts are his and being able to prove it. Apart from that, an ID ban is primarily a means by which they prevent that person from streaming their games. Preventing somebody from playing the game is next to impossible.
Please read what i wrote more carefully, i have answered everything you just questioned.
Yes... fom streaming, and for an indefinite amount of time. : The point of the ID ban was to stop him playing league overall while promoting toxicity, there is no other reason then that, how did he promote it? Using twitch.tv, and once again the acc's are all perma ban which i agree but to remove the ID ban is something thats basically saying to a regular summoner "Account unbanned" and that is something you cannot lie about because streamers (At tyler1's level) are not regular players, that something that needs to be said, i dont care if you say "Yea but they get perma bans too" because in reality Yes they do get acc's perma ban but heres the difference in our status, how many people will give me a lvl 30 account with champions i play for free and how many people will give tyler1 accounts to play in order to stream, thats the basis of this...... We know TYLER1 is a toxic player and once again i do mention he has been toxic on stream to his teammates after the reform but he doesnt type it which is why i believe riot is a joke, because now we have a toxic player who on some level breaks the alt account code with the summoner code but gets away with it because hes just talking on his "Stream" which is still "Promoting toxicity", difference from past tyler1 to current tyler1 is he just talks smack on stream and says bull shit in chat to make riot happy. So in reality was removing the ID ban on tyler1 fair to regular players? Of course not~ did they? Over course! why ? because TYLER1 is a league of legend icon... there is no way they would perm remove him, hes been on twitch con multiple times, hes very skilled player in high elo and he looks funny~!!!!!
As for Riot knowing Tyler had other accounts: Yeah, because he obviously didn't actually stop playing, and never pretended that he stopped playing. The trouble isn't in knowing that he owns other accounts, it's knowing which accounts are his and being able to prove it.: Once again i repeat, TYLER1 has a special play style u can identify that people dont see, his micro mechanics are very well with adc's, but for some reason his draven game is soooo special... like as someone who tries to play adc at that level... nah man... he finessing the adc game. So from watching an account that is believed to be tyler1, if he plays a draven game and it has some "Similarities" as Tyler1 then riot should take action of some sort instead of saying unable to determine his account, because trust me... there are not a lot of high elo draven mains who will play with such great mechanics and as frequently as well.
Apart from that, an ID ban is primarily a means by which they prevent that person from streaming their games. Preventing somebody from playing the game is next to impossible. : Once again read the statement above. Tyler1 is known as the most toxic player in league, to let him back in for getting over 20 accounts ban alone is reason enough to suspend his twitch.tv ACC(ID Ban Basically) I mean if i was a RIOT head i would not want players to watch this guy play anymore... but he does~ why? hes a valuable asset to riot and that will always be true.
TrulyBland2 votesIt's pretty obvious you've made up your mind. Your way of "answering what I questioned" is simply repeating your own viewpoint over and over again while actually ignoring just about everything I've said.
But let's focus for a second on one specific part here:
So from watching an account that is believed to be tyler1, if he plays a draven game and it has some "Similarities" as Tyler1 then riot should take action of some sort
which in conjunction with
there are not a lot of high elo draven mains who will play with such great mechanics and as frequently as well.
can only mean that you are absolutley fine banning "not a lot" of innocent players, as long as Tyler1 is punished. I don't like Tyler, but I cannot fathom how much hatred you must have for you to be emotional enough to imply that punishing him is more important than not punishing innocents.
Either way, you are clearly way too emotional on the subject to be reasoned with.
N631 votesI mean this is good and all, but what has this got to do with perma-ban from the game for being toxic in chat?
N631 votesI mean if they were banned unfairly it does say that they can make a ticket in the Reform Card you see in the launcher.
ModPrandine1 votesI mean if they were banned unfairly it does say that they can make a ticket in the Reform Card you see in the launcher.
If someone wishes to contest their ban then they can file a Support Ticket and/or come here to PB asking for feedback on their punishment. Some punishments have in fact been overturned (or sometimes even escalated) in the past, so anythings possible so long as they're mature and respectful about it and don't start lashing out the moment they start hearing disagreements.
N631 votesYou literally said everything I was about to say lol.
comedybingbongs1 votesAs long as NA chat system encourages people to have a "weak-mental" with our above-average IFS strictness, then we will continue to be one of the least competitive regions to play League in.
You don't have to take my word for it. This is the opinion of countless high elo players who actually know what they are talking about and how to play the game
kaling 2321 votes@ComedyBingBongs @Prandine you here this? because i totally agree 100%.!
I didnt want to even bring this point up in "forums" where the chosen riot summoners believes that theeee statement is toxic and nothing should be said in chat, but this person is preaching the truth...
End of the day Player support staff is a joke as i stated earlier and multiple times throughout the forum, the reason i point this out is for this exact reason.... just like my post which was closed for being passive aggressive, riot is taking this punishment way too far for the "weak-mental" and this statement is blandly obvious i am shocked no one has mention this sooner.... sadly in previous years i have posted similar thoughts and was shut down by the staff/chosen summoners,
There was legit no reason to close this forum post... even tho the forum was "not holding any real discussion" you took it out on a summoner who is trying to understand his punishment, instead of blaming the people who are clearly "Chosen riot summoners" and tell them, "Hey Summoners, settle down, i know this might sound weird in your view, everyone has a view and everyone needs to respect these views" you closed the forum post which was asking how did i get in trouble for being passive aggressive? well it leads to the player support staff who as this gentleman says " NA chat system encourages people to have a "weak-mental" with our above-average IFS strictness, then we will continue to be one of the least competitive regions to play League in." And at that point it makes you think, is being passive aggressive really toxic? Should the "Forum" leader really closed a discussion where 4 people(Not including herself) are writing the same generic forum answer and keep saying the same stuff? like once again where does the sense actually make sense? does anyone not find this weird???????
Riot heres the solution to fix the problem and this ideal, Stop banning people who were clearly not aggressive(Means actually telling riot employee's to watch reviews and view the content of the situation fully and understand everyone's point of view, i know sad.... riot employee's gotta work instead of playing league) or create a new "punishment system" because clearly this one is a busted system.
kaling 2321 votes@RiotDev can i get Doublelift personal phone number? ill ask him and record the call if he believes this statement is true >:D