anyone else kinda wanna know who got punished when you get the notification for someone you reported

KennysDreamGirl·Jul 5, 2017·1 votes·417 views

title

(I saw a post that someone hates when people write posts like this so I wrote it like that)

17 Comments

ChermorgJul 5, 20171 votes

By releasing information to you regarding others' punishments beyond "you helped punish someone", not only would it be violating others' privacy, but also would encourage witch hunting. People would complain to Riot "I got a notification that so and so got punished, but not one that this other person did what's going on Riot".

KartagiaJul 5, 20171 votes

And in most judical systems punishments are public to show criminals are not protected.

Riot policy is following in reality:

Protect wrongdoer as long as you can - they are important customers
Ensure nobody can defend themselves against wrong doers, as it is bad PR if wrongdoing is public.
Summoner's code is PR document, and should not be followed by anybody. Only clueless snitches believes we care anything but money.

ChermorgJul 5, 20171 votes

Riot gives people less chances than many online games. 3 strikes and you're out (10, 25, 14, out), even just 1 chance if it's egregious enough.

Nobody can "defend" themselves against wrongdoers because your idea of defending seems to be "publicly shame" and/or "flame them back", both of which are also banned in most other online games.

Actually, Riot bans people for violations frequently. Look at these boards.

KartagiaJul 5, 20171 votes

You are totally getting me wrong. I am saying that punished players should be made public as part of punishment. Making all punishments public including chat logs. Just like court rulings are public in real life. I am not saying other players should do the naming and shaming.

And apparently you cannot grasp how to defend against flaming? By saying them they are doing wrong. By defending victim of bullying. But riot has made that worse crime than saying Kill Yourself.

ChermorgJul 6, 20171 votes

Why should Riot make people's punishments public? Most online forums I have seen have a rule prohibiting what's known as "gravedancing" - that where a person goes and comments publicly about someone who's either banned/suspended/punished. Riot understands much of this community is filled with high schoolers/young adults who are still immature and would do such a thing. Thus, they probably don't make things public to help avoid the desire to do this.

Further, saying "kill yourself" is an immediate 14 day ban if detected/reported and verified. General retaliatory flaming follows standard escalation - 10/25 game chat restriction, then 14/perma ban. Thus, it's not a worse crime. It's just repeat offenders of retaliatory flaming have a chance of getting a higher punishment than a one-time offender of saying "kill yourself" who then reformed.

KartagiaJul 6, 20171 votes

Important aspects of the system you do not get.

Kys has to be reported by multiple players in the game to have any effect.
When you cannot defend yourself, and mute him, the flamer has free reign talk team mates to report victim, not him.
Thus system ensures that victim cannot talk people not to report him, but allows the rule breaker to talk others to join him. This is the way how schoolyard and workplace bullies operate.
This makes opposing rules breaker more likely get punished than actual rules breaking. Thus it is de facto worse punishment.
In order to make punishments work, you have to make them public in order to prove everybody you are doing it. Otherwise people think you are just talking and talking, and not doing.

ChermorgJul 6, 20171 votes

I will refute each point individually, even though all of them are wrong.

No. Actually, kys doesn't even need a report - the system flags egregious hate speech like that automatically.
Doesn't matter what they say, one report flags a game for review the same as 9 does, and false reports are thrown out like a used diaper.
Again, doesn't matter. You can be reported by 9 people in every single game, but if you're not doing anything wrong nothing will happen at all.
Again, if they're false reports, the person "opposing" won't get punished. If the person "opposing" was in fact just flaming back, under the guise of "opposing" the "true" flamer, then yes, they'll get punished.
The amount of people complaining on the boards about their punishments isn't enough to make you think it's working? Trust me, Riot hands out a ton of punishments each day.

If you're going to try and make points like that, you at least should make sure they're logical, if incorrect. All of your points are illogical, and incorrect.

KartagiaJul 6, 20171 votes

I am sorry, but I do not see nay proof any of your points are true. For me they are just PR bullshit without any proof. And I never SAID I WOIULD FLAME BACK. Telling someone they are not acting properly IS NOT FLAMING. It is scolding.

THe riot main assumption: You cannot make those who enjoy making others feel bad to feel bad!

And your point of "person opposing is not punished" has been proven false, as there is NO HUMANS INVOLVED. The whole punishment process is handled by Artificial STupdity System, as it does not emulate human intelligence but stupidity.

And Riot know this as they remove all context making reporting players look bad.

I have not seen single proof that saying KYS would result in any action unless enough people report him.

ChermorgJul 6, 20171 votes

Go say kys in a game where everyone on your team is your friends. Do it two or three times. Watch the punishments roll in.

The onus is not on me to prove my facts, as they're generally accepted as true on these boards, and in League in general. Riot's assumption is this: You cannot make others feel bad. I don't care if they called your mom fat, or died 10 times to someone they're supposed to counter. You cannot flame others.

Singling someone out for criticism on how they are behaving is a) not game related, b) directed at an individual, c) overwhelmingly negative, d) calling someone wrong/incorrect. All of those are signs of flaming, and if you're legitimately scolding someone in game you're certainly flaming.

My point is this: If you are truly just opposing someone's ideas, thoughts, or actions, but doing so in a constructive way, you cannot and will not be punished. If you are singling people out, spamming how they lost lane/their score/their cs/etc, cursing at people repeatedly, etc, then you will certainly be punished. Your idea of "opposition", as evidenced by your hostility, anger, and lack of coherence in your replies here, seems to be that of constantly reminding someone how wrong they are, by using sarcastic, sassy remarks, and using "Alternative Facts" that do not coincide with reality or facts that have been proven time over.

You honestly sound like one of those people who goes around screaming that vaccines gave their baby autism right now - it's not true, the entire scientific community ostracized you, and so you keep spewing alternative facts in anger about people disagreeing with you.

KartagiaJul 6, 20171 votes

If you can give me real proof, I would believe you. And I ask real proof not anti-vac shit proof. Riot is doing their best preventing you to believe how system work by lying to us all the time.

And fanboys are quite likely paid by Riot as they do the same as Putin Trolls for Russia. Not a single word admitting flaws of Riot and always telling how "official truth" is true. Ignoring all facts proving it to be false.

And all I ask Riot giving us something we could believe in. Giving us statistics of reports ignored and reports resulting bans.

All I am asking RIot becoming more transparent with their policy as it is blatantly apparent that abusers of system has reverse engineered it, as they have dozens of hacked accounts on their disposal. They can do that kind of testing. Honest people cannot. THus all I have is your word. And RIot word. And latter has been proven to be wrong more often than it is true.

IF someone is incorrect, how telling him how things really are is flaming? You are yourself acting like side you blame me to be. Antivacs does that. They say "you should not prove me to be incorrect due my opinion matters".

And Riot is doing the same thing as antivacs. THey tell us not to tell how things are as it is rude to opinion of those who believe otherwise. That is the basis of anti-vaccine thinking. For your knowledge, I am scientifically thinking person with dozens of years study in university. I do know logic. I have done my share of math proofs due major side subject of math.

ChermorgJul 7, 20171 votes

Once again, I am merely reiterating things that everyone else accepts as fact because they have been posted here by Rioters time and time again.

If you think I or others are paid by Riot to be "fanboys", please tell me where my paycheck has gone, cause I sure as heck haven't gotten it.

I can fully understand that you may be very well educated, but you seem to lack an understanding of basic psychology. Coming from someone who is well versed in psychology (hint: it was my undergraduate course of study), there is no need for Riot to change anything.

The reason for the number of hacked accounts is due to low password security, people using the same password for everything, emails getting hacked, etc. It has nothing to do with any Riot policy, and the fact you think it does shows me you have little understanding of computer security and internet moderation. From someone who has experience in internet moderation and the computer engineering related thereto on other websites, Riot does a damn good job at their punishment system.

To reiterate, all of your desired "proof" is on the boards and likely on other sites such as Reddit as well. You just have to search for it.

KORGtunersJul 5, 20171 votes

You kinda might be a bad person.

Leaf on BushJul 5, 20171 votes

For what do you need the names?

And yes, if this was a good discussion you would most likely have answered my question already instead of saying "title".

The title actually looks like a question without question mark. It's not even a statement. If you think that we need the names for something you can just say so and explain it.

KartagiaJul 6, 20171 votes

Because those who bullies do not want their names to be public. It creates social feedback and ruin their reputation as it should. Without this real punishment, they will continue, as temporary bans or permanent bans are just delays, and due small chance getting them, quite unlikely.

And because it gives the majority of players tool they can confirm RIot has actually punished the perpetrator. I did not say I want ONLY the names public, but also chat logs so people can review the judical procedure.

KartagiaJul 5, 20171 votes

I would like to see it, but it is against policy of Riot to expose wrongdoers, but punish those who dare to oppose them.

AlienPrimateJul 5, 20171 votes

I always know who was punished. I get a notification about 90% of the time that I report someone because I use the report button very sparingly. The times that I do report 1 person, I get a message either later that day or the next day and know exactly who it was. People abuse reporting way too much and I have a hunch that the system keeps track of how often and what kinds of players people report to determine whose reports should get a closer look at. Way too many people report people who just have bad games. There is a difference between getting a little salty about a bad game and raging at the game (not their teammates) and someone who constantly flames people for every mistake that others make. There is also a clear difference between feeding and getting stomped. A score of 0/7/0 could be either. I can tell when people are making an active effort to come back and are just getting hammered harder each time they get back to lane. I can also tell when people don't care and just run it down the lane to die on purpose. There shouldn't be nearly as many reports as there are. False reports overload the system which is why I think it has priority report detection for people who use it responsibly.

KartagiaJul 6, 20171 votes

Then you let lots of flaming and rules breaking players get away with it.

Riot makes one false assumption: If someone reports verbal abusers often, they are not real reports without investigating. Thus reduction of score for lots of reports is common.

They do also make false assumption that team mates would not gang against victim by charismatic and brutal bully. THus Riot ignores all mechanics of bullying. They act like rector of school - defending false reputation of school by doing all they can to hide bullying and silence the victim, as it looks bad for their reputation if bullying case is proven true. The victim is treated as cause of case, as handling victim is easier. Bully is harder to handle, especially when he has important parents, whose reputation is on stage like reputation of school is on stage. Riot does same. They do ensure that victims keep their mouth shut and "enjoy" being verbally abused as there is something wrong in them to get verbally abuses. There has to be, as otherwise the winning taker social archetype followers would be the real culprit. And that is against "proper social order":