Riot-Tantram lying, why?

Keldjur·Aug 10, 2018·5 votes·9,135 views

Hello. 1.5 year ago I was permanently banned , I got a chat log that I posted in these forums and most people thought it was BS that I was permanently banned for the reason: Targeting. What did I do? I said "morgana" <-- This is the explanation I was given by the ticket-support.

This is what Riot-Tantram wrote about me(but not to me): Riot Tantram (NA) Senior software engineer - 12 months ago "This was the only game I was banned for, there are no more log and no more games."

This isn't entirely accurate.

This is your 11th penalty on THIS account and have also been banned from the boards. You get reported so much that my browser had a difficult time paginating the results. I scrolled through 30 PAGES of reports, and based upon what I saw you are justly reported in about every game you play. The severity of the chat logs shown aren't extreme. They do however show consistent negativity and similar behavior trends to your previous penalties. As such, the system decided, and rightfully so, that you are not learning from your previous penalties.

I spot checked your recent games.

One game, you loaded in and 28 seconds into the game informed the player they were on an 8 game losing streak, and were bad. You 'soft trolled' a few games, intentionally feeding but trying to stay under the detection radar. You argue with people in literally every game I checked.

All of these are lies, I did question him about it in the original thread but he never replied back. Others had questions as well about why Tantram would make things up and take things out of context.

I have allways been open and allways said that RIOT is allowed and permitted to share anything I have ever done on thier clients as long as they dont take things out of context... His entire msg is out context... and I did explain this in the other thread as well.

"This is your 11th penalty on THIS account and have also been banned from the boards. " <- He forgot to mention the account is 7+ years old and that I have a lot of "BS" punishment on that account, such as me trying so save my apartment complext from a fire and had to leave a game.. I got punished for this. I also had to take an urgent doctors appointment, was punished for this... etc etc etc. If you look at it for what it is, its really Riot-Tantram taking things out of context to make me look worse then I am.

Yes Im banned from the boards. Im banned for promotion of 3rd pary services... when talking to ticket support about it I was in reality banned for braging about my loss-strak... the thread was about how do I end this current loss streak and I did 1 error and used sarcasm... So I was life-time banned from the forums. I also was banned from the forums for calling moderators here nazis... in reality I did explain to them that the same methods they use are the same that Nazis used to use to get a power-hold over the other person... For this I was life-time banned.

I also got banned for showing a newly promoted moderator how his "crew" is not following their own forum rules... After he asked me to show him this information... Its like the police asks you to break the law, and when you do it they punish you for it.

"You get reported so much that my browser had a difficult time paginating the results." Yes ofc I do, because there are no negative consequences by false reporting. Some games I report my entire team even though maybe 3 out of 4 did somethign wrong... Anyone can report anyone after the game for any reason. So rather then bring up number of reports, how many of those were valid? like 0.0002%?

" I scrolled through 30 PAGES of reports," <-- This is taking things out of context (And I didnt allow this) Riot-Tantram was asked how many reports on each of those 30 pages... he didnt answer.

"and based upon what I saw you are justly reported in about every game you play. " <-- This is his opinion... but what is it based on since he didnt tell any of use what I had done that makes the reports valid. Last time a rioter did research on me he came back to me called me a liar and then went on to lie in 15 sentences straight about me... so plesae do us all this favor and explain your opinion Tantram.

"The severity of the chat logs shown aren't extreme." <-- This is what ~20% of the comments in the original thread said... one comment was "I can use this log as a bed time story for my children"

"They do however show consistent negativity and similar behavior trends to your previous penalties." Allow me to somewhat quote Rainman. You have 5 people with 5 different ideas on how to play the game and there are nothing to help set up a system where they can cooperate. 5 strong willed people will complain on each other becusae they feel they play the game as its supposed to be played. Ofc there will be negativity and "drama" cause riot never implemented standards... Remember that interview where a rioter talks about they wanted LOL to be an open game and not strict to 1 top, 1 jungle, 1 mid and 2 bot? They wanted anyone to be able to go anywhere to develop any strategy... this was killed when they added the extra armor for towers the first 3 levels to prevent the top/bot swap. This being said... No Im not negative and please quote what I said and we discuss it. As things are now, Riot tantram is god and his word is the truth... he never have to prove he is correct nor that what he is saying is the truth, we should just take his word for it.. becuase he is no man, he is a god and gods are never wrong.

"As such, the system decided, and rightfully so, that you are not learning from your previous penalties." <- This is also a lie and I did challenge this as well. Its very easy to prove this is a lie, I never got banned for the same thing Twice and RIOT never explaiend why the things I got banned for were bad enough to ban me.

I would like to end with a few words from Scarra as it hit the mark: You dont see pro players type that much in game cause riot made these systems that bans people for basically saying anything. Before I(Scarra) was able to have friendly banter among friends and familiar players and nothing would happen, it was great and fun. Now the way the game and ban-system is set up people dont dare to talk and noone dares to challenge the system cause they get banned. Basically riot made us all in to mindless robots unable to talk to each other because the risk of saying something wrong is too high. "Chat when was the last time you did see me have friendly banter with another player ingame?" <--- He could not answer this question himself cause it was so long ago.

So I played on my EUNE account, got punished for new BS reasons and Im more then willing to share the log.

Few friends who still play, they play on EUW so I made an account there... holy crap. I challenge any rioter to make a new account on EUW and play it up to level 15... Why ? Because you have no clue what it like! If you did you would do something about it.

This thread is about Riot-Tantram and why he did lie. <--

Sources: Scarra talking about lol: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiOBO4sKBBQ Rainman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypLC1Ei2WRY

187 Comments

VoldymortAug 10, 201825 votes

fyi

linking a video made by some well known player concerning his opinion on the game for the purpose of backing up your own argument is what is known as

Confirmation bias

it destroys your argument most of the time

downvotes thread and moves on

AnAggravatedPimpAug 10, 20185 votes

{quoted}

fyi

linking a video made by some well known player concerning his opinion on the game for the purpose of backing up your own argument is what is known as

Confirmation bias

downvotes thread and moves on

This

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

This

There are leaders who think by themselves and then there are followers. Followers follow different codes, most of the time they allways back up the one the have a relationship with rather then thinking for themselves and make up their mind of what is right or wrong. I know what you are but do you know what you are?

I wish we all could think freely without taking someones back just because of a relationship. If my dad drinks and drives... I will not treat him any differently then I would have any other who had been drinking and driving... those are my morals and principles.

AnAggravatedPimpAug 10, 20189 votes

{quoted}

There are leaders who think by themselves and then there are followers. Followers follow different codes, most of the time they allways back up the one the have a relationship with rather then thinking for themselves and make up their mind of what is right or wrong. I know what you are but do you know what you are?

I wish we all could think freely without taking someones back just because of a relationship. If my dad drinks and drives... I will not treat him any differently then I would have any other who had been drinking and driving... those are my morals and principles.

Red herring, more ad hominem

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

fyi

linking a video made by some well known player concerning his opinion on the game for the purpose of backing up your own argument is what is known as

Confirmation bias

it destroys your argument most of the time

downvotes thread and moves on

I can understand that you think like this but it's also logically wrong and is based on your assumptions of my motives behind the thread, I ask of you to read my thread and understand it before you judge it... By the looks of things you have judged the thread before you read it.

And also... if you are to understand things.. please look at the dates. My ban was 15 montsh ago, his comment 12 months ago and the video not that long ago. What does this mean? It means that its not confirmation bias its me saying one thing that was ignored 12 months ago... but now is backed up by every person who talks about the subject. I was ahead of my time and that's what the videos is meaning, not confirmation bias.

I would prefer if you ask me questions like why use scarra as a source? <-- and we can talk about that To jump to your guns and assume the worst is really not that productive nor helpful at all.. in fact its very toxic behavior and boarderline bullying.

AnAggravatedPimpAug 10, 20185 votes

{quoted}

I can understand that you think like this but it's also logically wrong and is based on your assumptions of my motives behind the thread, I ask of you to read my thread and understand it before you judge it... By the looks of things you have judged the thread before you read it.

And also... if you are to understand things.. please look at the dates. My ban was 15 montsh ago, his comment 12 months ago and the video not that long ago. What does this mean? It means that its not confirmation bias its me saying one thing that was ignored 12 months ago... but now is backed up by every person who talks about the subject. I was ahead of my time and that's what the videos is meaning, not confirmation bias.

I would prefer if you ask me questions like why use scarra as a source? <-- and we can talk about that To jump to your guns and assume the worst is really not that productive nor helpful at all.. in fact its very toxic behavior and boarderline bullying.

We're calling it confirmation bias because you got banned a year ago and now that Scarra, a big name that you can flash to earn favor, is speaking about players leaving, in a video that is most likely unrelated to player behavior, you're back on the boards to acuse a Red of wrongdoing.

Your thread is bias, and players are getting burnt out after playing this game as a job for 6+ years. Confirmation bias, straw man, ad hominem.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

We're calling it confirmation bias because you got banned a year ago and now that Scarra, a big name that you can flash to earn favor, is speaking about players leaving, in a video that is most likely unrelated to player behavior, you're back on the boards to acuse a Red of wrongdoing.

Your thread is bias, and players are getting burnt out after playing this game as a job for 6+ years. Confirmation bias, straw man, ad hominem.

This is not true at all and also its offtopic. Once again you assume the worst rather then ask me what's up. I can prove you are wrong, but would that matter to you at all? It still wont be on the topic on why a rioter did lie about me , my behavior and what I have said.

Im sorry to inform you that Im neutral. Its not a straw man argument and I dont even know waht ad hominem is... can you explain it and still be on topic? That is the quesiton... also, can you answer quesitons or is this just another comment trying to provoke me? Your comment has been reported.

AnAggravatedPimpAug 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}

This is not true at all and also its offtopic. Once again you assume the worst rather then ask me what's up. I can prove you are wrong, but would that matter to you at all? It still wont be on the topic on why a rioter did lie about me , my behavior and what I have said.

Im sorry to inform you that Im neutral. Its not a straw man argument and I dont even know waht ad hominem is... can you explain it and still be on topic? That is the quesiton... also, can you answer quesitons or is this just another comment trying to provoke me? Your comment has been reported.

Ad hominem is throwing petty insults at people in order to disprove their arguments rather than disproving their arguments with you own. E.g. "I hav a high iq, it's not my fault you don't get my argument

Burden of proof is making a claim then refusing to elaborate on your claim for no real reason. E.g. "I could explain my point but I won't because you're mean to me"

Red herring is a change of subject though as opposed to a strawman you don't expressly claim to hav defeated the opponents argument. E.g. "Your valid point is off topic. Please stay on topic"

Good luck with your big brain there, my dude. You might want to add logical fallacies to your knowledge base btw. I learned em in my first semester of college and they were really helpful in poking holes in spotty arguments.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

fyi

linking a video made by some well known player concerning his opinion on the game for the purpose of backing up your own argument is what is known as

Confirmation bias

it destroys your argument most of the time

downvotes thread and moves on

I ask of you to find a single person that can prove what I said is wrong... cause that is was confirmation bias is all about.... If Im correct, then what is the problem? If Im wrong, where am I wrong?

What i see is judgement without reasoning nor understanding from your part. I wish we could have a productive discussion about the topic and subject rather then accusing one and another for things that doesnt even matter.

VoldymortAug 10, 20186 votes

Can't converse with players that already decided what the answer is.

It's a waste of time.

If the post 18 months ago didn't change your mind to such an extent that you're back now then the very ideea of debating with you is something one would call an exercise in futility.

Pika FoxAug 10, 201819 votes

You claim he lied, but have nothing to back up that claim and expect us to take your word for it at face value.

KeldjurAug 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OiNysnZn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-08-10T15:05:25.052+0000)

You claim he lied, but have nothing to back up that claim and expect us to take your word for it at face value.

Not really. You know human behavior? If you are presented with 2 people, 1 is lying... how would you know who is lying with only this data?

And yes it was proven. If you make a claim like he did, that I had been "soft-inting" (whatever that is) and at least 5 people ask you for evidence... then I am sorry but the ball was on his side and he did drop the ball. He didnt present any evidence for his claims and I have permitted rito to share my information cause I know tantram is and was lying. What proof do you want from me and what do you intend to do with it?

Pika FoxAug 10, 20185 votes

How do i know which is lying? Its you. Next question.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OiNysnZn,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-08-10T15:18:27.215+0000)

How do i know which is lying? Its you. Next question.

That makes no sense pika fox. If you make the claim you can walk on the sun... Me and 5 others say you cant and ask you to do it... you dont do it. Then a year later I come back to your town and remind everyone "Hey Pika did claim he could walk on the sun" .... Am I the one lying or you? <-- Logic and reasoning.

Pika FoxAug 10, 20183 votes

It makes perfect sense; the number of times people on player behavior have claimed "i didnt do anything" and were smacked down is more than enough. Not to mention ive been a mod for a private server for a different game, and have dealt with these types of posts and people. Its clearly you.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OiNysnZn,comment-id=00020000000000000001,timestamp=2018-08-10T16:27:17.840+0000)

It makes perfect sense; the number of times people on player behavior have claimed "i didnt do anything" and were smacked down is more than enough. Not to mention ive been a mod for a private server for a different game, and have dealt with these types of posts and people. Its clearly you.

Thing is I wasnt smacked down at all... if anything tantram was smacked down as he couldnt answer a single question nor put forth any proof or evidence for his claims about me and my behavior.

And Im an adult and have dealt with people all my life, I have seen bad behavior a lot, especially from my time wokring in schools. I have also seen and heard people lie... just because I have this experience doesnt mean there isnt a person who is good and that doesnt lie. Your limited personal experience regarding how others who isnt me act is not a valid argument for me being what... lying? Toxic or what do you imply the player on this server did that was bad that you think Im doing? Or what is the problem? Once again, leave contact info and tell me the problem cause you aer very much offtopic right now and Im force to report your comment.

Pika FoxAug 10, 20182 votes

Its very easy to prove youre the one.

you make a claim with 0 supporting evidence.
you type a lot to make it seem like youre saying something, but almost all of your post says nothing, and explains nothing.

Let me make this clear; you are making the claim you were falsely banned. You are providing zero supporting evidence of this and are asking us to believe you over a rioter. Either bring supporting evidence to back up your claims, or get out. Riot doesnt need to tell you anything or list examples, as it allows people to get around their punishments easily, and ive seen your type repeatedly. Even if he were to post proof positive of you doing wrong, youll still argue against it. Even in your OP you said he gave you examples of things you did that are bannable and ypu STILL deny it. Either get proof, or i dont care. You wont, because youre the one lying.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OiNysnZn,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-08-10T17:21:12.658+0000)

Its very easy to prove youre the one.

you make a claim with 0 supporting evidence.

you type a lot to make it seem like youre saying something, but almost all of your post says nothing, and explains nothing.

Let me make this clear; you are making the claim you were falsely banned. You are providing zero supporting evidence of this and are asking us to believe you over a rioter. Either bring supporting evidence to back up your claims, or get out. Riot doesnt need to tell you anything or list examples, as it allows people to get around their punishments easily, and ive seen your type repeatedly. Even if he were to post proof positive of you doing wrong, youll still argue against it. Even in your OP you said he gave you examples of things you did that are bannable and ypu STILL deny it. Either get proof, or i dont care. You wont, because youre the one lying.

Im one what?

what claim did I make and what evidence do you want?
Maybe its because you didnt understand it.

No you are dead wrong and I ask of you to read both threads again. I never made that claim, please stop making things up Im here and you can ask me.

Your comment is reported as it is not on topic at all, its just lies.

TerozuAug 10, 20182 votes

You claimed you were wrongfully banned and tantran lied.

Give evidence of either.

Your posts have like no substance.

And Pika's comments are not punishable. They are entirely on topic.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You claimed you were wrongfully banned and tantran lied.

Give evidence of either.

Your posts have like no substance.

And Pika's comments are not punishable. They are entirely on topic.

Not really.

Okey, what evidence do you want? you tell me what you want and I give it to you.

That is more your opinion based on ignorance. Ignorance means to ignore information.

It depends on the rules and how strict the moderators are. No they are not on topic. I made the topic and i know what is ontopic and what is not. Just like if I were to discover a star I know what I named it. If I make a country I make the rules and if I write a song or book I determine what its about... and when I make this thread I know whats on topic and what is not cause I made the topic.

Please ask open quesitons rather then assume, you are also offtopic

TerozuAug 10, 20182 votes

Im not off topic.

You claim "tantram is lying".

Back it up.

TerozuAug 10, 20182 votes

You actually did not back it up.

And this is on topic.

Give actual evidence that what he said was a lie.

ModThe DjinnAug 10, 201811 votes

As you requested my input on how to make a thread that is more likely to achieve your desired goals, I've taken the liberty of doing a draft for you. I've made it a top-level comment for clarity, and to make discussion easier.

#Title: Riot Tantram: Seeking Clarity on Previous Ban

Hello.

1.5 years ago I was permanently banned, and received input from Riot Tantram on this thread. While I understand my behavior may have been deemed unacceptable, I'd like to ask for more clarity on the specifics of the accusations against my account Lovepet [EUW], as I am still unsure what precisely led to my punishment.

I would like to request more information on the following:

Examples of my improper behavior from the games mentioned. I give you permission to post part or all of my chat logs.

A list of previous punishments, preferably with the date of the punishment.
If possible, an estimate of the percentage of reports I received that were considered valid vs. the percentage considered invalid.

I hope you are able to provide this, and I thank you in advance for your time. If you cannot or are not willing to, I understand.

This will focus your concern on the core issue at hand -- what data was cited against you. It avoids the accusations of lying, bias, etc. that cause people to push back against you, removes the rambling about other issues and attempts to justify your behavior, and cuts to the core issue: was your behavior bad enough to earn a punishment.

It also comes across as significantly more level-headed, mature, polite, and willing to have a discussion, all of which help if you are actually seeking a response.

If/when you post this, avoid getting into arguments or debates in the discussion. Simply wait, and do not respond to anything you feel is intended to provoke or anything you feel is off-topic. Just show that you can be the bigger person. Finally -- and most importantly -- be willing to admit that you might be wrong, and this could be deserved. If you are not willing to at least potentially admit fault, Tantram's time is wasted.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

The Djinn Im impressed, that was very well written. I can absolutly repost this in another thread a day I have more time.

This is not the issue I have really and not what this thread is about, dont get me wrong Im very thankful and getting the information about my ban would just be a bonus in my book. My thread is deeper then me asking about the specifics about my ban or information. As you can see I have never requested that you unban me, that's not what this is about and never has been.

Im not here to argue and I thought I have made that very clear. I said it here in the forums, over at you on discord,twitter and ticket support. Im not accusing he is lying, I state it as a fact and I try to point at it as the reason for your problems, the problems both Scarra and Rainman talks about... Again, I thought I was clear about this and since noone asked about it I thought you got it... Did you watch both videos? Because they talk about this specifically... No not that Tantram is lying or about my ban, but why I am banned. This is where Tantram comes in. Tantram assumed the worst about me and pulled up statistics that were very basic and didnt tell the real story of what had happen. He also stated that I had done things I had never done. I concider this lies... Once again its not the point, the point is in the video.

Another point and this is really important that you listen and understand, I say it with all the love I can no hate at all. You really need to understand that your main language or knowledge of the English language is on another level then others. In my cause Im self taught Swede with dyslexia, you cant expect me to be able to express myself the way you do or anyone else who have english as their mothers tounge... Its not just you and its not just here, it goes for entire riot. I have been banned beucase of you missunderstanding things I said, both here in the forums and in game. <-- This is the one thing Scarra and Rainman doesnt talk about because they dont understand it because English is their main language. I believe you need to allow people to explain themselves rather then assume the worst, judge and punish them. When people dont understand English as well as others they can act out. I have problably 1000 reports from people who are not good at english, who are just annoyed with me trying to shotcall for "Baron guys" , "Can we do drake?" etc... They have even told me this "I dont know Eng, f-u, you talk to much and you annoy me" <-- They say this to me.

As previously stated, if I were to talk to tantram I believe we can solve this fast and smooth.

ModThe DjinnAug 10, 20185 votes

{quoted}The Djinn Im impressed, that was very well written.

Thank you.

Im not accusing he is lying, I state it as a fact and I try to point at it as the reason for your problems, the problems both Scarra and Rainman talks about...

Then your post will get no traction, and no rewording can assist you. An accusation of lying is not a basis to build a thread around, especially as there is no evidence you can provide to categorically prove that.

you cant expect me to be able to express myself the way you do or anyone else who have english as their mothers tounge

I don't expect that. I do expect a certain level of respect for other individuals when seeking a response from them though, and that is not something that is only associated with a certain language.

As previously stated, if I were to talk to tantram I believe we can solve this fast and smooth.

As long as your thread is premised upon nothing but the assumption that he is lying to you, I can all but promise you he will see no reason to give you the time of day.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

I don't expect that. I do expect a certain level of respect for other individuals when seeking a response from them though, and that is not something that is only associated with a certain language.

I see you say that but I dont see the action. I call it as I see it, its a lot deeper then I believe you think. I did try to explain parts of it with a logical explanation for some of my reports. I can give you numbers of exampels where you have missunderstood me and assumed the worst when I believe you should just have asked me to explain myself. Not everything is what it seams to be. I have been trying to be as respectful and as clear as I can and you see the missunderstandings and the number of times I have told people they are offtopic, they have missunderstood and they assuming things that are not true. This would never happen if I was able to explain myself rather then having to defend myself <- This is what is going on really. I dont want to sit here and defend myself, and why would you attack me rather then use me for your benefits? <- This is what I felt happening... not only from summoners commenting in this thread but also from Riot tantram and that other moderator.

ModThe DjinnAug 10, 20184 votes

{quoted} This would never happen if I was able to explain myself rather then having to defend myself.

My only suggestion then is to take the additional time to clarify your points concisely ahead of time to prevent confusion. This very thread seemed to have multiple rambling points and to attack a Rioter without any evidence other than the "my word against yours" argument, which is not a good place to start a thread.

Best of luck to you, but I will warn you that taking the direction of saying "Riot Tantram lied to me and I need to talk to him" will not get you the results you seek.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OiNysnZn,comment-id=00100000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-10T22:51:21.759+0000)

This would never happen if I was able to explain myself rather then having to defend myself.

My only suggestion then is to take the additional time to clarify your points concisely ahead of time to prevent confusion. This very thread seemed to have multiple rambling points and to attack a Rioter without any evidence other than the "my word against yours" argument, which is not a good place to start a thread.

Best of luck to you, but I will warn you that taking the direction of saying "Riot Tantram lied to me and I need to talk to him" will not get you the results you seek.

I understand I can be clearer, but once again this is not about me and it never was. Im not the only one where English is not my main language. You can expect all the respect in the world from me but it doesnt change anything. There are still millions out there that are unable to reach your level of expected respect due to their limitations in the English language.

This is why I would like to suggest to you that you ask for people to explain themselves rather then you assuming things about players and their motives. This is what happen to me, I can prove this over and over again if you want and allow me to. (I explained to you how I concider it lies) Im here, I can answer questions and I can hopefully make you understand the points Im trying to get through.

Also please, I never said I needed to talk to Tantram. I want to talk to him but its nothing I need. Riot tantram never lied to me, he never spoken to me... and I find that very odd since he did lie about me. <-- This is important and you need to allow me to explain this to you without you feeling resentment towards me. I dont think it's fair of you trying to speak for summoners, and you(riot) have done this towards me in the past as well. Once again its all about allowing summoners to explain themselves rather then you assuming. This is also what Riot-Lyte did talk about when he worked for riot. This is a topic I have been trying to push as well but without success... This is where I need you. And hopefully you are willing to help me.

EvilDustManAug 10, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I understand I can be clearer, but once again this is not about me and it never was. Im not the only one where English is not my main language. You can expect all the respect in the world from me but it doesnt change anything. There are still millions out there that are unable to reach your level of expected respect due to their limitations in the English language.

This is why I would like to suggest to you that you ask for people to explain themselves rather then you assuming things about players and their motives. This is what happen to me, I can prove this over and over again if you want and allow me to. <- Im here, I can answer questions and I can hopefully make you understand the points Im trying to get through.

Also please, I never said I needed to talk to Tantram. I want to talk to him but its nothing I need. Riot tantram never lied to me, he never spoken to me... and I find that very odd since he did lie about me. <-- This is important and you need to allow me to explain this to you without you feeling resentment towards me. I dont think it's fair of you trying to speak for summoners, and you(riot) have done this towards me in the past as well. Once again its all about allowing summoners to explain themselves rather then you assuming. This is also what Riot-Lyte did talk about when he worked for riot. This is a topic I have been trying to push as well but without success... This is where I need you. And hopefully you are willing to help me.

http://gifimage.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/moving-goalposts-gif-4.gif

TrulyBlandAug 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

There are still millions out there that are unable to reach your level of expected respect due to their limitations in the English language.

I've very recently in a different thread made a point which is applicable here as well: The only way for communication to work, is if both people involved put in a certain amount of effort. The person who talks can make an effort to be understood, by making precise and unambiguously worded statements, the person who listens can make an effort to understand, trying to not just read the words but anticipate what the speaker tried to express.

Both parties are only in control of the effort they respectively choose to put into the conversation, but it's important that both of them ultimately lose when there is not enough of a combined effort. If the listener misunderstands the speaker's point, there's nothing to gain.

Now let's talk about your case specifically: I hate being so blunt but it feels like you don't put in any effort in either of the two.

There seems no cohesion in what you are saying. To be clear: I'm not attacking your English skills. Neither your grammar nor your spelling are the problem. The problem is how you construct your arguments and posts. You seem to be unable to focus your attention and state outright what you want. Instead you are jumping between entirely unrelated points. Even when people do as you frequently demand, and ask you for clarification on specific points, you seem either unwilling or unable to put in enough effort to give a clear and concise answer.

This is paired with being extremely nitpicky with virtually everything people say to you. As an example, you are very insistent here to clarify that Tantram lied "about you", not "to you". That is not at all what you should have focussed on. It bears no relevance to the point Djinn was making and even with the little understanding I have regarding the point of this thread, it seems to not really be relevant to your point either. Once again you seem to be unwilling or unable to put in enough effort to understand the main point somebody is making, and instead focus on small and irrelevant details.

Ultimately, nobody really knows how much effort you put into these two things. But what I can say is that at least to me it feels like you are expecting everybody else to do the heavy lifting in this conversation. At the end of the day, however, it doesn't matter. If both parties don't put in enough combined effort, nothing good will come of any discussion. I recommend thinking about this when you answer to what others write to you.

Just so you know, I'll be happy to read your reply to me, but I won't respond any further. I've had enough conversations with you to know it is pointless. Even before I read your other account's name, and even before clicking that link to the other thread, I recognized you purely from the fact that you endlessly accused others of going off-topic. Another practice that speaks to the little effort you put into actually understanding the point others are trying to make.

PrimaquariusAug 10, 20188 votes

I dont have enough popcorn for this post

RiotRiot TantramAug 10, 201833 votes

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OiNysnZn,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-08-10T18:28:34.749+0000)

[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Hello Tantram. Why did you decide to lie about my behavior after I was open and presented my log and was 100% ready to cooperate. You were asked plenty of questions about my ban but only did answer a few but not any of the real quesitons... Like why would you take things out of context, why did you claim I soft-inted and trolled game. Why did you claim to had to load 30 pages of reports without telling us how many reports on each page and over what time. There were a lot of errors and lies in your post.

Im here, Lets talk.

HalcyonDwellerAug 10, 20186 votes

You claim that some of Tantram's information was incomplete. And that because some of the information was bad, all of it must be bad. This is a logical fallacy. It is not a proper way of arguing, and it hold absolutely zero water in a discussion. Even if Tantram was counting the 2 times you were punished for leaving, that still leaves 9 other times of doing punishable things. A difference of 18% does not magically make your situation sympathetic.
You're acting as if you are a victim of mistreatment by Tantram, and you are acting like your victimhood somehow absolves you of guilt for the other things you have done wrong.
As for getting information about your reports, you won't. Riot doesn't disclose that much information about how punishments are earned, so that people don't have such an easy time of reverse engineering the system and finding ways to circumvent it. You aren't entitled to know every in and out of how and why you were punished. You should be smart enough to figure out that it's not okay to try to make other people in the game have a bad time, especially after at least 8 warnings throughout the years.
You have also suggested that we should see the chat from the game, to see what you were dealing with. Even getting harassed by teammates would not excuse your behavior. It doesn't matter if everyone else was doing it, nothing makes it okay to go out and act terribly yourself.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You claim that some of Tantram's information was incomplete. And that because some of the information was bad, all of it must be bad. This is a logical fallacy. It is not a proper way of arguing, and it hold absolutely zero water in a discussion. Even if Tantram was counting the 2 times you were punished for leaving, that still leaves 9 other times of doing punishable things. A difference of 18% does not magically make your situation sympathetic.

You're acting as if you are a victim of mistreatment by Tantram, and you are acting like your victimhood somehow absolves you of guilt for the other things you have done wrong.

As for getting information about your reports, you won't. Riot doesn't disclose that much information about how punishments are earned, so that people don't have such an easy time of reverse engineering the system and finding ways to circumvent it. You aren't entitled to know every in and out of how and why you were punished. You should be smart enough to figure out that it's not okay to try to make other people in the game have a bad time, especially after at least 8 warnings throughout the years.

You have also suggested that we should see the chat from the game, to see what you were dealing with. Even getting harassed by teammates would not excuse your behavior. It doesn't matter if everyone else was doing it, nothing makes it okay to go out and act terribly yourself.

No I did not make that claim. Please re-read the thread as you have missunderstood what it is about. Its in the topic and at the end of the thread. No thats not the way quality of an argument is determined. You still have not understood the points not the discussion nor the thread... and 18% that can be a lot and basically nothing.... again your opinion about if its a big number or not is as you stated... an argument that doesnt hold any water because its based on your opinion that is based on basically nothing since you have not understood the thread and you have not re-searched what happen. So please allow yourself to not assume but to ask questions. It moves the discussion forward and not putting it at this... where I have to sit here explaining to you how you are wrong and have missunderstood.
Thank you. Once again I dont get why you are venting your opinion to me and what you think that is suppose to give me or how it is productive or on topic... So how can I hlep you? I can sit here and tell you what you act like, but then I get banned.
Im not asking for information abuot my reports, please dont assume and dont make things up. Im right here able to answer qustions and I can cooperate. You should understand what they are saying in the 2 videos I posted at the end of the video... because they are basically tellign you that you are dead wrong as well.. since you probably wont listen to me maybe you listen to Scarra and Rainman.
Yes it does and here you are dead wrong again. I had this argument with riot before and they had no counterargument. I have 2.
In every country with a functioning system of laws, you are not allowed to provoke others.
If you find your mother getting beat up, you wont interact... becuase you are not allowed to be provoked and you should call the police and watch your own mother geat beaten for your eyes while you wait for help. <--- Welcome to your logic.

Also, you are very much offtopic and wrong about everything.

HalcyonDwellerAug 10, 20183 votes

{quoted}

No I did not make that claim. Please re-read the thread as you have missunderstood what it is about. Its in the topic and at the end of the thread. No thats not the way quality of an argument is determined. You still have not understood the points not the discussion nor the thread... and 18% that can be a lot and basically nothing.... again your opinion about if its a big number or not is as you stated... an argument that doesnt hold any water because its based on your opinion that is based on basically nothing since you have not understood the thread and you have not re-searched what happen. So please allow yourself to not assume but to ask questions. It moves the discussion forward and not putting it at this... where I have to sit here explaining to you how you are wrong and have missunderstood.

I read many of your comments throughout this thread. You have repeatedly asserted that part of Tantram's information is wrong. I have no idea what other reason there would be to assert this besides to claim that all of what he said was wrong. So what is your purpose in calling Tantram a liar? Maybe you can prove that he got some information wrong, but even if you do, he still has most of it right. You're not proving anything by saying he got some of it wrong. So what's the point? Are you trying to run a smear campaign against him?

Thank you. Once again I dont get why you are venting your opinion to me and what you think that is suppose to give me or how it is productive or on topic... So how can I hlep you? I can sit here and tell you what you act like, but then I get banned.

Ok then how about this: If you want people to respect you and listen to you so that they might change their minds to agree with you about this situation, then stop acting superior to everyone and calling everything you dislike as being off-topic. If you don't show us that you're willing to treat dissidents with respect then why should anybody treat you with respect?

Im not asking for information abuot my reports, please dont assume and dont make things up. Im right here able to answer qustions and I can cooperate. You should understand what they are saying in the 2 videos I posted at the end of the video... because they are basically tellign you that you are dead wrong as well.. since you probably wont listen to me maybe you listen to Scarra and Rainman.

Neither of those videos have to do with Tantram being a liar. So I don't see the point of what you're trying to make by including those in a post accusing Tantram of being a liar.

I'm sorry for accusing you of asking for info. But if that isn't the case then your claims seem incredibly illogical.

"Why did you claim to had to load 30 pages of reports without telling us how many reports on each page and over what time." You're basically suggesting that he did something to make less reports take up more pages so that he could say that it took multiple pages to show all of the reports you got. Do you have any idea how implausible and silly that sounds?

Yes it does and here you are dead wrong again. I had this argument with riot before and they had no counterargument. I have 2.

In every country with a functioning system of laws, you are not allowed to provoke others.

If you find your mother getting beat up, you wont interact... becuase you are not allowed to be provoked and you should call the police and watch your own mother geat beaten for your eyes while you wait for help. <--- Welcome to your logic.

In the law, there is a such thing as "reasonable force." In the real world, you can defend yourself and your loved ones so long as you do not exceed reasonable force. Reasonable force in the real world is only as much as is necessary to stop continuation of abuse. Retaliating in a videogame is like walking up to the guy after the fight is over and slapping him. It just antagonizes him into fighting again, thus causing another fight.

Retaliating in a game doesn't make them stop, because that's not how psychology and ego function. Thus it does not fall under the protection of this figurative "reasonable force" online (which doesn't even exist by the way). Reasonable force in a video-game would be to mute the aggressor. Retaliating by being toxic yourself is never okay. Period. End of story.

Don't equate the real world violence to behavior in a video-game. They're not even close to the same thing. And they don't operate under the same rules, dangers and problems. There's a reason the Rioter you claim to have argued with wouldn't have made a counterargument. Because it doesn't need one. It's not relevant to the discussion. Ironically, it is kind of "off-topic."

Also, you are very much offtopic and wrong about everything.

This is what I'm talking about. Every one of my points in this comment pertained to things you yourself have said in this thread. None of it was off-topic from that. Every time you dislike something somebody says you accuse them of being off topic and threaten to report them. I remember one comment you even said, "I'm forced to report you for off-topic." Nobody is "forcing" you to do anything. You chose to report them for saying things that you didn't like. Being "off-topic" is just a veil to cover for that intention.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I read many of your comments throughout this thread. You have repeatedly asserted that part of Tantram's information is wrong. I have no idea what other reason there would be to assert this besides to claim that all of what he said was wrong. So what is your purpose in calling Tantram a liar? Maybe you can prove that he got some information wrong, but even if you do, he still has most of it right. You're not proving anything by saying he got some of it wrong. So what's the point? Are you trying to run a smear campaign against him?

Ok then how about this: If you want people to respect you and listen to you so that they might change their minds to agree with you about this situation, then stop acting superior to everyone and calling everything you dislike as being off-topic. If you don't show us that you're willing to treat dissidents with respect then why should anybody treat you with respect?

Neither of those videos have to do with Tantram being a liar. So I don't see the point of what you're trying to make by including those in a post accusing Tantram of being a liar.

I'm sorry for accusing you of asking for info. But if that isn't the case then your claims seem incredibly illogical.

"Why did you claim to had to load 30 pages of reports without telling us how many reports on each page and over what time." You're basically suggesting that he did something to make less reports take up more pages so that he could say that it took multiple pages to show all of the reports you got. Do you have any idea how implausible and silly that sounds?

In the law, there is a such thing as "reasonable force." In the real world, you can defend yourself and your loved ones so long as you do not exceed reasonable force. Reasonable force in the real world is only as much as is necessary to stop continuation of abuse. Retaliating in a videogame is like walking up to the guy after the fight is over and slapping him. It just antagonizes him into fighting again, thus causing another fight.

Retaliating in a game doesn't make them stop, because that's not how psychology and ego function. Thus it does not fall under the protection of this figurative "reasonable force" online (which doesn't even exist by the way). Reasonable force in a video-game would be to mute the aggressor. Retaliating by being toxic yourself is never okay. Period. End of story.

Don't equate the real world violence to behavior in a video-game. They're not even close to the same thing. And they don't operate under the same rules, dangers and problems. There's a reason the Rioter you claim to have argued with wouldn't have made a counterargument. Because it doesn't need one. It's not relevant to the discussion. Ironically, it is kind of "off-topic."

This is what I'm talking about. Every one of my points in this comment pertained to things you yourself have said in this thread. None of it was off-topic from that. Every time you dislike something somebody says you accuse them of being off topic and threaten to report them. I remember one comment you even said, "I'm forced to report you for off-topic." Nobody is "forcing" you to do anything. You chose to report them for saying things that you didn't like. Being "off-topic" is just a veil to cover for that intention.

TL:DR waiting for tantram or a moderator to help me out... maybe I take a look at it in the future.

HalcyonDwellerAug 10, 20183 votes

Mmkay, have a nice life. It looks like the Djinn wrote a very helpful comment and pinned it. I suggest you heed their advice.

redniwediSAug 10, 20187 votes

So what did he lie about, exactly? Your post here doesn't really prove that he lied anywhere, it's just you picking apart everything he said and using some horrible leaps of logic to try and show how he was wrong.

Your thread is a horrible mess if I'm being honest. You draw attention away from the point he was making, but you do it in a way that aims to show that he was wrong about ANYTHING, as if that would help your case here. I would pick this thing apart and point out every case where you brought up something that doesn't actually help you, and is just a conversational distraction, but my reply would end up being longer than your main post...

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So what did he lie about, exactly? Your post here doesn't really prove that he lied anywhere, it's just you picking apart everything he said and using some horrible leaps of logic to try and show how he was wrong.

Your thread is a horrible mess if I'm being honest. You draw attention away from the point he was making, but you do it in a way that aims to show that he was wrong about ANYTHING, as if that would help your case here. I would pick this thing apart and point out every case where you brought up something that doesn't actually help you, and is just a conversational distraction, but my reply would end up being longer than your main post...

Im used to others using words and sentences like "You think you are so smart dont you?" "stop acting smart" "your logic is flawed" and the one you used... "using some horrible leaps of logic to try and show how he was wrong." ... For me that got information its really funny and absurd. I have a logical IQ well above 150+ determined by government testing facilities and I also aced (perfect) the logic IQ test in the army. SO no its not what you think it is and if you tell me what you dont understand or get Im more then willing to explain it to you. I dont like it when others assume. Its like, just becuase you dont believe in gravity doesnt make the gravity stop existing... same here, just because you dont undestand the logic doesnt mean there is no logic there, it only means you didnt get it... thats where I come in and can help you.

You made the claim that I draw attetnion away from the points whe was making... and those were? cause everything he wrote was a lie that he never commented on. He was asked in that thread to put forth evidence and proof. He was given permisison by me to post anything and everything that i hav ever written on their clients as long as he doesnt take it out of context. You do understand taht "30 pages or reports" is taking things out of context as he doesnt present how many reports on each page. <-- This is important

You seams to know about my case... what is my case you think? Cause most of hte people assume things about me, the wost often. They are allways wrong and I think you are wrong about my case too. You probably like most people think I want my account back, never said that <- This is important.

Please go ahead and pick my msg apart and I be more then willing to assist you where and when you go wrong.

redniwediSAug 10, 20189 votes

For me that got information its really funny and absurd. I have a logical IQ well above 150+ determined by government testing facilities and I also aced (perfect) the logic IQ test in the army.

And you know what that IQ doesn't help you with? Explaining what you're trying to say. You might have some perfectly logical points to make here, but you're utter shit at explaining yourself. You type too much and say too little at the same time, and that makes your posts difficult to read.

If you can't write what you're trying to say in a readable way you're completely wasting that IQ of yours.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I have a logical IQ well above 150+ determined by government testing facilities and I also aced (perfect) the logic IQ test in the army.

And you know what that IQ doesn't help you with? Explaining what you're trying to say. You might have some perfectly logical points to make here, but you're utter shit at explaining yourself. You type too much and say too little at the same time, and that makes your posts difficult to read.

If you can't write what you're trying to say in a readable way you're completely wasting that IQ of yours.

Once again you are offtopic (like most people who comment here) IQ helps me a lot. If I said something that you dont undertand, then please tell me what you didnt get and Im more then willing to explain it to you. Dont say that Im shit or bad at something that you either dont undestand or missunderstood. THat is just bad manners.

Please give me examples as to what you didnt get and I try my best to help you understand. I can not read minds I dont know your problem nor how I can help you with the info you provided.

DrCyanideAug 10, 20189 votes

How is he off topic if IQ is a topic you brought up?

He gave you some examples of content to fix. Read and understand their 5 sentences, then consider the revisions that would need to be made to fix or improve those 3 expressly mentioned points. Then consider if there are other revisions that would help your content flow and be more clearly understood by the reader.

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

How is he off topic if IQ is a topic you brought up?

He gave you some examples of content to fix. Read and understand their 5 sentences, then consider the revisions that would need to be made to fix or improve those 3 expressly mentioned points. Then consider if there are other revisions that would help your content flow and be more clearly understood by the reader.

I think you missunderstood and you are offotopic as well. Its a comment and not the topic of this thread.

What you say is also not true. There were no examples in there. Also the entire comment was a missunderstanding on his part... but once again its offtopic and not to this discussion, if you leave contact info where I can see it we can continue the offtopic discussion there.

DrCyanideAug 10, 20186 votes

It may be in a comment, but it's still a topic you brought up in the course of discussion. If you think it is "off topic" to talk about, you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

You're in a position where no one can discuss your original post because of how you presented it. Thus comments like redniwediS's are asking you to restructure your post to make it easier to understand.

They did give examples, they just described them instead of quoting them from your text.

I think it's pretty clear throughout both OPs and the various comments that you've got a hard time communicating with others. It led to your punishment in the first place, and has led to a lot of comments about how you're saying things instead of what you're trying to say. Is English a second language for you, or is social interaction something you struggle with?

VoldymortAug 10, 20185 votes

You type too much and say too little at the same time, and that makes your posts difficult to read

It is known as a "word salad"

[sg-ezreal]

redniwediSAug 10, 20183 votes

I'm going to have to remember that one, well said!

HalcyonDwellerAug 10, 20187 votes

Every time someone disagrees with you in this thread, it is because they "misunderstood" or because they are "off topic" - according to you at least.

You have repeatedly raised examples or anecdotes, and as soon as the discussion surrounding those examples turns out of your favor you declare it off-topic and refuse to cooperate in any further discussion with the person. So what's the deal? You can make statements that are off-topic but other people can't? This sort of thing comes across as very hypocritical.

If you are unwilling to try to communicate effectively with others then how can you expect them to agree with you? You don't have a magic argument, people aren't going to just magically change their minds. And you can't just call anything you dislike a misunderstanding or off-topic. Engage with people, reasonably. Or they won't engage reasonably with you.

ModPeriscopeAug 10, 20182 votes

Where previously I have been asked to post this msgs.

? Really. Who said that?

KeldjurAug 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

? Really. Who said that?

That was 12 months ago and if you can with only the names of my other accounts find it out Im more then willing to help you. As of now I wont log on to any of those just to find out who directed me where I first went.