If there's a surrender vote and you think there's a chance of winning

5000000000000000·Jan 11, 2017·27 votes·1,795 views

Please, tell your teammates how they can win, and what they need to do to win. People use surrender vote because they think they can't win, and just want to move on. Most likely, your team is very far behind in kills, and the enemy team has one or several fed carries.

But maybe, your team is stronger late game. Maybe your team has a strong splitpusher and can defend well with waveclear. Maybe only one of the enemy team is fed, and the others are still pretty weak.

Whatever it is you're thinking, let the others know. Your teammates are hopeless, and another failed surrender vote can just tilt them even more.

36 Comments

PaladinNOJan 11, 201712 votes

"It's not over till the fat lady Gragas sings" is my motto. I don't press "Accept" to a surrender unless the game has taken 3 turns for the worse, and I never accept a surrender at the first vote. I seriously don't even know how to start a surrender vote myself, as I've never done it.

But what actually angers me, is that the surrender vote is usually started by the one with the worst KDA on the team. If they want help or require assistance to improve themselves in any way, they can ask - and I for one will then help if I can - but I cannot stand such a defeatist attitude from people.

5000000000000000Jan 11, 20171 votes

It makes sense that the person doing badly is starting the surrender vote, no? They feel like they can't do anything.

PaladinNOJan 11, 20172 votes

We can do this very much theoretical discussion - though I don't think it would result in anything - about the different "whys" when people decide they are playing at their best, but they're still 2/12/9 and just can't take it anymore.

But even then, no one is stopping them from asking "how can i improve?". Common sense would dictate they do ask for advice before the game has tipped beyond the point of no return, but yet they rarely do, and just throw a surrender vote instead.

The reasons for such a defeatist attitude would in any case be purely speculation, but as long as they won't ask for help, they will have to bear that responsibility come end screen, should the majority decide to accept the surrender.

NotSpecialDudeJan 11, 20171 votes

Here's my two cents in that regard. Odds are their team wouldn't be friendly to them.

Let's be honest, a 1/6/0 player is only asking for insults akin to "this x" or worse from his teammates if he/she decides to ask for help. The worst thing you could do is show weakness towards your allies cause they will rip you apart if they sense it.

For example: "Why the f$@& did you go jayce if you werent godlike with him" or "How did you lose to a jinx/sona as cait/Leona?" or even "Why did you pick Kat into an Annie?"

You might not say these things but community as a whole is known for doing this and far worse.

Best Foxx NAJan 12, 20171 votes

"Why the fk did you go Jayce if you weren't godlike with him" or "How did you lose to a Jinx/Sona as Cait/Leona" or "Why did you pick Kat into an Annie"

It's definitely true, the League community has a bad rap for making comments like this. I've been on the receiving end of this some games when I decided to play Yasuo (keep in mind this situation happened in a normals game; I rarely play Yasuo in ranked anymore). Our top lane picked a Wukong and many times dove in well ahead of me and ulted the enemy team usually getting about one or two people knocked up. The moment he got focused down and killed, he flamed me for not going in with him, forgetting that he dove ahead and didn't think to consider the range on Yasuo's ultimate before engaging.

In response to the "How did you lose to a Jinx/Sona as Cait/Leona", you'd be surprised when mid or jungle intervenes a lot and sits on the lane. Any ADC with few escapes is dead if caught by a jungle, and some supports don't have an escape besides Flash. This tends to happen a lot more when the mid or jungle have a lot of engage and catch potential (like a Malphite, an Ahri or a Lee Sin). In response to "Why did you pick Kat into an Annie", perhaps they picked it for teamfights - sure Kat gets shit on by an Annie with Flash-Ult in lane, but one wrong move by that Annie or their team and Kat can ruin their game.

The KnightOwlJan 12, 20171 votes

It's not necessarily a "defeatist attitude", it's a calculated decision that people (including myself) often make after weighing several factors and making a prediction about the outcome of the game.

After playing league of legends for several years... or even just months, you get an understanding of how a game is going and where it is headed at any given time.

Let's talk theoretical: You've been playing like crap, fed the enemy team several times, you're team has played like crap, fed several times, never wards or gets vision before doing anything, etc. You have lost all of your outer turrets and they have lost none, the enemy team has late game champs and you don't, you're team isn't keen to team-fight or even play at a decent enough level to play safe and not feed anymore regardless of what you have tried to tell them.

At this point in a game, it's a calculated decision to take the loss early so that you can use that time you would've spent on a game that is obviously not going to be won, to work on and play a game that you have a much higher possibility of winning. Of course you COULD win, anything is possible, but chances are... no. Especially in low elo when like I said before, you've played out these scenarios many times, and you already know based on the way your teammates are playing and the enemy team is coordinating against you, that you are simply outclassed/beaten. It really becomes an annoying waste of time when you are trying to climb.

In my opinion, some people may have a defeatist attitude, sure, but in most cases, players are simply making a calculated decision to move on from a loss to a possible victory. I understand the whole "never give up, never surrender" type of attitude, but when it comes to gaming, it really doesn't apply in the same way as it does in real life. There are no lives at stake, it's a game, and you lose sometimes regardless of your attitude. Maybe you've won a couple more games because you never surrender, maybe I've won a couple more because I surrender early and get more games in, different strokes for different folks.

TL/DR -It's a calculated decision to take the loss early, rather than late.

PaladinNOJan 12, 20171 votes

True, it is a calculated decision, but as a rule of thumb, the first surrender vote comes just because one player "admits" he doesn't belong in that game, and just want out. I never agree to such a vote.

That said, I do have agreed to first time surrender votes as well, but, as we both can agree on, that is something circumstantial, taking number of towers lost, the champion matchup, individual skill and so on into the calculation.

The KnightOwlJan 12, 20171 votes

I think we are on the same page here, I may have ranted a bit simply because I've played far too many games where people refused to surrender just to troll and make me play a 40 min+ game while the enemy team purposefully doesn't end so that they can farm you for kills and get full build... It's exhausting.

LooknookJan 11, 20171 votes

I can understand wanting to improve while doing badly and not surrendering in Ranked. But when it's any or the Non Ranked game modes people wanna have fun. It not fun being useless and always dying. It not fun when the game is 0-20. Heck I've won games that I totally didn't think were worth the effort and time to win because they just weren't fun. At the end of the day it's a game and people wanna have fun and that's why people start surrerender votes. So they can do something more enjoyable to them.

drakuIa421Jan 11, 20172 votes

when i dont think we can win or when im not having fun, i spam surrender.

DanjengJan 11, 20174 votes

But if you're the one starting the surrender vote, please don't spam it. It'll just lower the morale of your whole team. You can try hard, maybe lose, maybe win, but still have a good time. Or you can not try at all and definitely lose, and not have any fun at all.

(P.S How are you doing with Ryze? Hope you're improving!)

5000000000000000Jan 11, 20171 votes

That's also a good point!

(Stopped playing Ryze after a while :/ Definitely got better than before though! I just suck at a backline role, so for now I'm just experimenting with a bunch of different stuff. I didn't like how he couldn't become tanky until pretty late into the game, so I picked up Swain. I'll work on bruisers, then transition working on squishies maybe)

DanjengJan 11, 20172 votes

Why build squishy when you can build tanky :)? item 3027 item 3116 item 3157 item 3001

5000000000000000Jan 11, 20171 votes

Usually because I rush item 3010 item 3070 then start working on durability. Should I just sacrifice the Archangel's staff, maybe?

DanjengJan 11, 20171 votes

No, never! You should always have a item 3040 at full build, regardless of the situation. However, if you want to build other items, you could delay it. But remember to always save one slot dedicated to item 3070 , in case you make it to the late game.

Sometimes in a rough matchup, I buy resistances item 1057 item 3024 to survive the laning phase. You don't necessarily need to get a tear by first back. But by 20 minutes, you should have a tear bought by then.

Ryze has fairly good survivability if you stack up at least one rune before engaging in a skirmish. For example, E minion (1 rune). Enemy approaches you. E enemy/fluxed-minion (2 runes). Q for shield/MS (0 runes). Now with a shield and MS boost, this allows you to reposition yourself for the next shield and MS boost, which in turn, allows you to reposition for another shield and MS boost, and so on. You should be shielded about 2/5 of the time come late game. Also item 3040 has a big shield which gives you temporary tankiness.

5000000000000000Jan 11, 20171 votes

I'll try delaying tear sometime. I've always gotten it first item so I can start stacking it. And staying at half rune is definitely a good tip.

Ariel the CruelJan 11, 20174 votes

Please, tell your teammates how they can win, and what they need to do to win.

For starters, stop flaming me when I tell you. (>_>)

5000000000000000Jan 11, 20176 votes

Flaming never does any good :/ Also, "stop feeding" is usually not very helpful.

Best Foxx NAJan 12, 20171 votes

Sometimes, people don't want to hear something, regardless of how many times they die. If they respond negatively after one helpful comment, just leave them alone; they're not worth helping.

Supreme Senpai69Jan 11, 20174 votes

10/10 post. Upvoted

Meowing MangoJan 11, 20173 votes

I only surrender games I know that are going to be a loss. What really grinds my gears is when my teammates refuse to surrender, BUT they do not try to win. It is just wasting time. I am all for comebacks, but comebacks are earned - not given.

5000000000000000Jan 11, 20172 votes

Yeah, not surrendering out of "never surrender" mentality isn't helpful at all.

ZialeskaJan 11, 20173 votes

My favorite is the adc who dies once and says gg and gives up right then and there XD

JUST KIDDING THIS IS THE WORST

Snowman ArcJan 11, 20172 votes

Sometimes, I see a way to win, and I tell them, but they still 4-surrender.

5000000000000000Jan 11, 20171 votes

Rip, then that game was just not winnable. Sorry to hear that.

Crawford881Jan 11, 20172 votes

I think they should let you surrender with 3/5, at least in normals. And I think the surrender timer should be at 15 minutes. I feel like I am held hostage in some of these games.

And it's not usually a guy who has a chance to carry voting it down. It's usually the player who took a troll pick champ and fed 8 kills in the first 10 minutes.

SarutobiJan 11, 20171 votes

See I don't surrender till the nexus is down. Not unless it is obvious. With that said though if we do tell you how to win, and you still don't follow through or even try why is that our problem? Any game is winnable, but that's not going to happen if we all (on the team) don't try.

5000000000000000Jan 11, 20171 votes

I think, unfortunately, we need to accept that not all game is winnable, and one of that reason is bad teammates (whether that's skill, attitude, or afk/dc). If they don't want to follow through, maybe there's nothing more you can do. But with your MMR (and sometimes LP) on the line, isn't it still your problem?

CowseedJan 11, 20171 votes

Basically this post is saying: "Assume your team is full of 12 year olds and you have to explain things to them veeeeeeerrrryyy slooooowwwwllyyyy when you know you can win when the score is 14v13"

5000000000000000Jan 11, 20171 votes

If they do try to surrender in a close game, then yeah they have a poor understanding of the game and needs some help understanding the advantages. Or they really like surrendering. It's also basically shot calling.

GigaPubeJan 11, 20171 votes

these egotistical little shits wont listen. all you can say is, koreans surrender more than anyone, because they know they've lost. they respect their opponents to know they wont throw cos they know how to play the game. in a meta where snowballing is far more prevalent than it has ever been, there are no late game chances when the entire map is against you and your own towers go down easier than ever before. and people wonder why everyones so toxic and ragequits or feeds or opens mid even at the challenger level. its cos everyones lost their minds at having to deal with these stubborn brats who wont surrender cos their parents told them thats their last game and they wanna suck as much of your lifeblood through the internet as possible

ZT XperimentorJan 11, 20171 votes

Sadly what most people overlook; is that just because the enemy team is ahead, doesn't mean they'll always be ahead. Unless they've got one of a select few champions, they'll cap out. They can't get more than 6 items (ignoring potions), and can't go over level 18, your team will catch up eventually, too bad most people aren't patient enough to try.

VitalitaJan 11, 20171 votes

I looked at this post just before going into a game... worst game I ever played. I explained how we have a chance of winning, but one guy AFK'd, two kept going back and forth talking about how bad the other is and when I intervened they turned on me, and one just kept dying to Darius. I tried to win, but they just didn't want to

BigBellBruteJan 12, 20171 votes

Never surrender. 100% of surrendered games are lost. Less than 100% of games that are not surrendered are lost.

Surrendering is bad strategy.

I had a game where the other team was on our nexus. All they had to do is kill it. There was absolutely nothing we could do. This was a game that looked as lost as lost can get. Two of us refused a surrender vote and got chewed for refusing. But then the other team chose to suicide in our fountain because they thought they were being clever and disrespectful. Well I came alive and got their minions and saved our nexus with one hP, The rest of the team came alive soon after. we then drove straight down mid and won that game. Not surrendering got me a win I otherwise wouldn't have.

Best Foxx NAJan 12, 20171 votes

On a personal note, I never lose hope. I don't start surrender votes in ranked games and I despise when people do this. This is mostly driven by the fact that in ranked, those who are wanting to surrender are often forgetting that there are 4 other people who like the surrendering teammate have wagered their MMR, their LP, and in some cases, their Promos on that game. They're not going to surrender, so you (the surrendering teammate) have a few options.

You can feed the enemy team and take the reports. (I'm not condoning this behavior, I'm stating it as an option. You can do it but that doesn't mean you should.)
You leave the game. (Again, not condoning the behavior, rather I'm stating it as an option. I despise people who leave ranked games and leave their team at a disadvantage.)
You suck it up and realize your team is not surrendering, and you reassess the game and figure out how you can contribute to your team's chances to get back in and win the game. If all else fails and you realize you are dead weight in terms of damage, you can figure out how to play a more supportive role and focus down the enemy carry (or carries) in the hopes that your team can burst them while they focus on you.

If this were a normal game, I don't think surrender votes are bad. Normal games don't affect your ranked MMR and they're meant to be a means of practice. It certainly sucks to lose them, but it doesn't matter in the long run. If you or someone wants to surrender a normals game, it's your choice.

ItsOrvalJan 12, 20171 votes

Please, tell your teammates how they can win, and what they need to do to win.

Telling low elo players what to do in 2k17 Lul

No but honestly, I do tell them what they need to do and they do the opposite. "Bot dont push lane, Vi is down there." Bot proceeds to push lane, gets ganked and die Facepalm.