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Is League of Legends an inhospitable place for Women?

Rand0mH3r0X··14 votes·4,316 views

With the recent death of Christina Grimmie, I really started to take into account the rhetoric surrounding women in online gaming, in particular Leauge of Legends.

There seems to be a relationship between Streaming, and a general distaste for women gamers. Even on the lowest level of streamers, you begin to notice a pattern vs. the ones with the largest following.

There's a lot of hate, and streaming apparently lifts you up on the pedestal for it. Any successful female streamer I've ever seen has been called a "cam whore." There's too many ways I can say people are wrong, but honestly, I wish I could get paid for doing jumping jacks. What is the difference in paying for someone's thoughts? You guys got this for free, cause I'm generous or stupid.

I do actually watch various streams while doing other online activities (like research) because I've always been able to listen to stuff like NPR and what not. Some of the things I hear are just crazy, especially when I heard about the success of 10 year old Brazil streamer who's plat 5, people paste in plain English sexual acts they would do to her, and they fly right over her head because she doesn't even understand English.

While I may not be considering the casual female gamer, because let's face it, they make up ~10-30% of the player base.

Does the majority of the League community create an inhospitable place for women in general? I would argue that point most definitely on twitch.tv, since there are plenty of people willing to pay certain streamers to do certain things. I would feel obliged to give someone a "Thank You" for even just a quarter, so I personally believe twitch.tv community is pigeon holing.

I've played on Xbox Live, Nintendo, other PC games live, and I have never once witnessed as intense misogynism as I do here. Gender shouldn't be relevant, but as soon as the party finds out there's a girl here, the rhetoric changes very quickly.

I don't know, but I would just like to start the discussion on how we as a community are treating the minority, and that it's becoming a real-world threat to safety, and this may dissolve that minority to a miniscule amount unless something is done actively.

I would hope more for someone to disagree via words instead of DV, but we will see my point in action when people wouldn't want to talk about this issue.

116 Comments

Shifue Draven13 votes

Honestly league is to inhospitable for humans in general you will not find a place more vile and hateful than this community.

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

Well, I've seen a worse Community in Runescape, where players were losing livelihoods and money because of Jagex's inaction. In particular, defrauding techniques used in the Grand Exchange that would normally put people in prison.

That being said, it wasn't as misogynistic as this one.

Agamemnon96662 votes

but only 0.0069% of players are toxic enough to deserve pernament bans

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

.0069% of 49 Million Accounts is 3381 accounts. Seems small, but even that number seems to define the community as whole.

Agamemnon96663 votes

Damn I think in the year ive been playing I must've encountered every single toxic player to exist across the world! riot is clearly lying about this number to make it seem like if you get banned that you are scum of the earth, when in all reality at least 25% of their player base is toxic, maybe not toxic enough to get caught on a regular basis or get multiple permas but they are clearly pulling numbers out of their ass

JeboteS1 votes

its a troll community,stop taking everything anything seriously...only way we have

Doctor Jarvis8 votes

The world is kind of inhospitable for women, isn't it? The League community is really more of a reflection of that

SeekerofSilence2 votes

Not in the West. It's perfectly fine in Western societies, which is why I think feminists should move their attention to Eastern countries and third world countries instead, where it's actually needed.

Instead they're blabbering on about gender identity ("I'm not special enough for society, let me assign myself a non-existent gender to prove my worth/have something to fight for") being opressed and having a major fit of "too much to do".

Girard5 votes

Any successful female streamer I've ever seen has been called a "cam whore."

To be fair, the majority of "successful female streamers" ARE cam whores, it's a shame that video stream services (cough, Twitch , cough) allow it while it makes a mockery of gaming. Go on Twitch right now and you'll find a few of the great "booby streamers" as they've been dubbed by the gaming community.

That being said, League is an awful cesspool of people (don't get me wrong, I've met some nice people) and it doesn't matter if you're a male OR female, because you're still a "f&&$^#$ g^@ damn feeding son of a b!#!@!"

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

If I paid you $100 to take a seat, I guarantee you, you'd do it.

Shopping as a woman can be very hard to find anything that isn't form fitting for any size under 6. You either dress like a granny, or deal with it. So fanaticism with boobs, which have no role in sexual reproduction (this means production, not already produced), is a social thing. I couldn't stop a person from appreciating a certain aspect about another person, like feet. So, in conclusion, "Just because I dress this way, does not mean I'm a whore."

I haven't heard or read the stories of male streamers being killed in an attempted rape, so I'm going to stick to my thought that there may be a difference, unlike what you stated.

Girard2 votes

There's a difference between not finding anything appropriate to wear and intentionally choosing to dress like a "booby streamer". I'm not arguing to say that women have it easier when it comes to clothes when I know they don't, but I'm not talking about that. Twitch and other streaming sites like Hitbox are comprised largely of female streamers that abuse their audience and use seduction and sexual imagery to get large donations and followings.

_I'm not against female gamers or streamers, I'm saying that the statement you made of successful female streamers being called cam whores turns out to be true in about 60% of cases. _

Śmęlls Fïshÿ2 votes

Send me a link to the new article where you saw a "streamer being killed in an attempted rape" and yes male streamers are forced to follow the same rules are females....

_ A msg from Twitch to its streamers_

Dress…appropriately

Nerds are sexy, and you’re all magnificent, beautiful creatures, but let’s try and keep this about the games, shall we?

Wearing no clothing or sexually suggestive clothing – including lingerie, swimsuits, pasties, and undergarments – will most likely get you suspended, as well as any full nude torsos, which applies to both male and female broadcasters. You may have a great six-pack, but that’s better shared on the beach during a 2-on-2 volleyball game blasting “Playing with the Boys.”

If it’s unbearably hot where you are, and you happen to have your shirt off (gents) or a bikini top (ladies), then just crop the webcam to your face. If your lighting is hot, get fluorescent bulbs to reduce the heat. Xbox One >Kinect doesn’t zoom? Move it closer to you, or turn it off. There is always a workaround.

We sell t-shirts, and those are always acceptable. #Kappa

redniwediS5 votes

League is no worse than any other area of the internet. If you end up in the right crowd you're fine, but if you end up in the wrong crowd you're not. There's a wrong crowd for everything under the sun, be it race, gender, political ideology, or age. It's a part of the internet, and will require greater efforts than you or I could possibly make to change.

A better question would be whether Riot in particular is doing enough to be hospitable to all people who wish to play. Personally I say no, but that is a mixture of the learning curve of the game, the environment they have created for the different queues, and how they go about deciding which behaviors are punishable and which are not. That's not to say they are not trying, it's only to say I believe they have not gone far enough just yet.

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

I feel like this community is a bit like a discount Reddit. The percentages of the people (Intellectual/Race/Gender/etc. based) are the same, but, the majority of people haven't had hacks sent to uncover their webcams multiple times a day like some female streamers do. I might be jumping the gun on that, so what do you think Riot can do to prevent the specific issue I pointed out?

redniwediS1 votes

The reason I said a better question to ask is what Riot can do for their game is because that's all Riot is really able to change. They can make changes that support a game environment that is hospitable to everyone with better tutorials and doing more to make sure the normal queues are a place for learning, rather than competition between the teams. A more constructive environment, along with more of the current punishments for unconstructive language, should support a shift in the community as a whole. Whether the community is willing to move things in that direction on their own is a question I can't answer, but Riot can at least show them the path.

What happens on twitch is an entirely different problem, and one Riot really has no say on. All they could do is ask that streamers follow certain rules when playing their game. They can't actively change anything, and I'm not even sure they could enforce the rules they would ask for.

There may be overlap between the League community and the twitch community, but each has it's own set of very separated problems. You can't fix one by focusing on the other.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

Breaking problems apart, and fixing them piece by piece isn't a bad strategy.

Twitch without League is just people screaming "WAASSSAAAUUP" into my ear while playing GTA5. There's no display of skill, or insight into a section of the game I'm not in.

So, since twitch.tv's audience has a large carry-over from League, we can actually start here. The issue is that harassment of female gamers has reached levels where they're getting sexually assaulted in real life, by other gamers specifically. LoL has a lot of

Riot is quite unable to really change or influence their community in a dramatic way. I'm hoping that Riot spot the trend as early as I did, that soon League of Legends will be associated with stalking, harassment, and putting women in danger for playing their game. Let's hope that they don't dwell too long on the issue before it's too late.

redniwediS3 votes

League of Legends will most likely never be associated with stalking or putting women in danger. The game simply isn't set up in a way that makes it easy for people to do this to female players.

Twitch, on the other hand, which is outside of Riot's authority, does make it somewhat easy. Other games may make it easy as well, but League is not one of those games. You're talking about problems with twitch being associated with League, which simply won't happen. Problems with twitch will be associated with twitch, and must be fixed by twitch.

The problem isn't the overlap of the communities, it's about who has the authority to fix this situation. Twitch is the one who should be pressured to end this, not Riot.

SeekerofSilence5 votes

Nah. Just don't tell your gender in champion select, as if it was relevant anyway.

Everyone will be met by douches online, men as well. If you look at all the hate messages male streamers get, you'll see it's nothing worse than the female streamers out there get. Honestly, if they're being called a cam-whore they probably are one (I've seen many of these, and whilst sending a small girl such messages is uncool there will as said ve dicks out there everywhere).

Before you ask any questions, I'm a girl myself. My gender is irrelevant to my gaming, nobody cares. I tried actively telling people in-game to see if there was truth to what you brought up a few months ago, but nope. Still treated like the regular gold scrub. As I should be.

Women are far from opressed in Western societies. Sexualized by some, yes, but instead of brushing all men under the same comb you should consider that there's good men out there as well that doesn't deserve this generalized bullshit.

Young Jerk1 votes

[deleted]

SeekerofSilence1 votes

Whoa dude, that's a bit over the top.

I've had many good male friends as I'm a bit of a tomboy, and I'm positive they weren't trying to get into my pants as they had girlfriends already, and my own boyfriend (whom is a gamer and an athelete; now ex due to distance and unsure feelings) was acquainted with them. Heck, I even play LoL with them to this day.

Yes, there's pigs/socially awkward men (and women) out there. But to assume every man is, is a complete bull assumption. My cousin is a great man, as are all my male friends.

I've felt nothing but respect from the vast majority of men, and the few who were being rude were removed with the blocking tool.

Instead of insulting me you might want to come with some valid arguements?

Young Jerk1 votes

[deleted]

SeekerofSilence1 votes

Your arguements are effectively invalidated by the way you speak, dear. You posed your opinions on it, but chose to keep insulting me anyway, which makes a constructive debate rather pointless.

You may have nasty friends who believe that, but I know for a fact that my friends weren't. They hooked me up with my ex even, if they wanted to keep me to themselves then that'd hardly be the most reasonable thing to do, right?

You're right, our instincts tell us to mate and have children, but believe it or not our brains has been wired to work in social settings as well. If a girl has a boyfriend, any interested male will be turned away and vice versa. If you're only looking for friendship you wouldn't turn your back on her/him regardless of their relationship status.

Not to mention the gay guys I'm friends with. You mean to tell me they were only trying to get into my pants as well? I think that contradicts their sexuality (which they were open about).

Shadowatom2 votes

I'm pretty sure this is all wasted breath, let him live his world and you'll live yours. Also there's no point in continuing the debate anyways, you both have completely different opinions and at least one of you doesn't want to budge, if not both. Better just to leave it and continue with your day doing more constructive things. Have a good one!

SeekerofSilence1 votes

Agreed. At least I got to be the mature person in our little "quarrel". :)

If he responds more I'll probably end it with a final comment, if he continues in the same manner it's time wasted trying to convince him his ways of getting his opinion across breaks every rule of a debate.

Thanks, you too!

Iri the Eerie1 votes

I definitely agree about gender being irrelevant to both gaming skill and attitude. There have been several matches whereby someone says they're a girl, and no one cares. Not even a reaction. You would think that by now, in 2016, people are beyond the whole "girl gamers don't exist" thing, but when it comes right down to it, if you aren't actively searching for a mate, then what does gender matter, anyway?

However, I must challenge the statement, "there's good men out there as well that doesn't deserve this generalized bullshit." It isn't just men who perpetuate the attitude; please keep in mind that there are several prominent women in the fashion industry, and women who speak out against what some consider social injustices (such as the wearing of burqa / chador / hijab, etc). It's generalized because it's open-ended. When people say "The League community is toxic," most of us kind of nod and go, "Yeah, for the most part, which sucks." In general, we tend to agree, even though we ourselves are included in that community. Still generalized, but true nevertheless because of the overall attitude (with a few notable exceptions, of course).

SeekerofSilence1 votes

Whilst I respect you for not going ballistic like the other guy whom replied to me, I can't say I agree.

The majority of men aren't pigs. I don't believe for a second that the majority of men would go on a 10-year old girl's stream and sexualize her. You can't claim that the overall attitude for men is said mentality, because it isn't.

That's what I meant with "generalization" anyway. People tend to generalize from the worst, negative people. It's human nature to remember the negative experiences more than the positive, that's why I say it's wrong to generally say that men are pigs whom can't keep their heads out of their pants.

I don't know jack about fashion so I can't really comment that, but I dare say calling "every" man sexist is worse than challenging someone's clothing.

HeYoo2 votes

If there were more woman playing this game the interest in boobs on stream would decrease so the "cam girls" would dissapear. I wish the moajority of players would be females so the tables would turn and you'd see "muscle guys" half naked on stream not even playing the game because they don't have time to learn such thing (being too busy at the gym) and then you would be able to judge and tell if there is a thing like "CAM WHORE" in the gaming community or not. The quality players that are here are just and like to believe that one's succes is based on merit and wit not on physical appearance (if it were based on physical appearance we would've not played this game or waste any time in front of the computer).

stealthfox942 votes

At times it's inhospitable for everyone not just women.

MAN OF INTELLECT1 votes

The entire gaming community has more or less been inhospitable for women.

You can tell simply by the gender that the games are tailored for (including League).

I don't know if it's a social stigma or mores, or if girls in general don't enjoy gaming as much, or if it's simply because of the gaming community environment.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

I can see League trying to shift away from the image it started with, especially with the release of Taliyah. (Although, I really feel like they were just trying to meet a quota, therefore she was never going to be good.)

When was the last Champion released with a bust exposed being the central identity of the character? (Think Elise.)

Girls do enjoy gaming, especially app gaming. My sister, girlfriend, female cousins, and girlfriend enjoy GTA 5 a lot, and there's little to no issue with misogyny there. And that really surprises me that League is worse than GTA 5 with this regard.

MAN OF INTELLECT3 votes

It's not necessarily images of the females portrayed in a game that indicate that League is inhospitable for women, but rather, the gameplay style and intensity of the game that really indicate whom its geared for. GTA5 is much different than League on this regard. For example, a FPS game versus a racing game will attract different kinds of people. I believe that mobas in general will attract a more intense gaming community (since it requires so much dedication to really enjoy the benefits of the game). Some girls enjoy intense gaming, but a majority seem to be male.

Also BTW I would stick to only having one girlfriend. Two might be excess.

TankofGod1 votes

I actually try to find girl gamers and currently have like 6 on my friends list that are girls. I remember this one time a person on our team was talking shit to one of the girls i knew and I told him that my friend was a girl and he starts apologizing and being super nice to her. We were in a skype call laughing our asses off .

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

I don't know what the deal is with people having any different rhetoric to female gamers, nice or otherwise. I would prefer people to trash talk me like I'm neither a woman or a man, than for them to treat me nice based on my gender.

I know plenty of people online who've gotten hitched, they met online, and live happily. I work with a woman who met her husband on Everquest, and they still play together.

That being said, that doesn't have to be what male gamers are out to do. I've never gone to Jack-in-the-Box expecting for someone to ask me out on a date, and I never have. I expect that to happen in social environments, and League is pretty social, but you'll almost never meet the person you're trying to reach. A true first world problem, I might add. "Met a cute girl on League. Oh well."

Friendly Ram1 votes

Nah honestly online communities have groups of trolls who want to insult everyone. Honestly the league community isn't that bad towards women.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

Aside from bullying, the gaming community is having a real-world impact on women. How many more deaths will be associated to women by gamers? Playing video games will be associated with not just misogyny, but an actual detrimental effect. This could make congress pass more invasive security laws, something I'm very strongly against.

True, there are trolls. But the women who are making money off trolls aren't dumb whores, they're conning the idiots dumb enough to pay $3 to ask if the table's okay. This abusive relationship between women and gaming is going to be noticed.

Aptest2 votes

Now female gamers are being targeted, killed, and assaulted by other gamers.

Prove that there was 1.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

Sure, maybe you could help me find the specific woman I'm looking for because I honestly forget her name.

She was a half-asian Canadian female who streams a lot, was sexually assaulted by someone who recognized her in real life. She does have a twitch.tv stream, and people accuse her of faking the whole thing, even the cast on her hand, based on the only notion that, "She wouldn't meet me to help her."

Oh, and hello, I was figuring I had a NA audience, since EUW isn't the same continent.

Aptest2 votes

could not find the story in 10 min of google. odd, considering your choice of words previously: "how many more women". you make a case for an epidemic, and your evidence is maybe a single, disputed isolated case.

with respect to sexual assaults, rapes et cetera, let me just say this:

they are not usually perpetrated by strangers. The vast majority of sexual violence is done by people the victims know well in real life.

so putting the blame on gamers, making the "gamers VS women" case is totally out of sync with reality.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

I know her names started with Jenny, or Jen. That's about it.

Mass shootings are still viewed by a large majority as isolated incidences. Interesting thought I could share there.

So, what I'm trying to construct is a bubble in which their exists a minority that is seemingly having more negative events occur than the majority. If we title this, women around the world, then this is true, no? Now, does it still apply inside of League of Legends, or gaming in general. I know, there's a lot of conceptualism in this Square-Rectangle argument, but just think about it.

Aptest2 votes

What you're trying to do is to construct a narrative, while alleging it is true and making conclusions from an assumption that it is true; this, without providing justification that the narrative is reasonable.

you're saying "women are being harassed, women are being targeted, women are being assaulted". not "a specific woman" (hi phantomlord) and not "gamers in general (because everybody who plays this game has had cancer wished upon him/her at some time)" but women as a general case being a specifically more injured and specifically targeted group. Then you seek to continue a discussion from a point where this is assumed to be correct; And you ask me, in discussing with you, to have an assumption that this is true in my side of the discussion.

your assumptions have not yet met the minimum burden of proof, to be considered reasonable assumptions. Therefore the most correct way of treating them is that they are a "false narrative".

SexySoapTurtle1 votes

Im not being sexist. But im going to use an example here. When guys make names for games we don't put "totallyAGuy45" or "GUyGamer341 in our names. We make up some stupid shit that doesnt show our gender. The reason girls receive so much hate in gaming is because most girls like to think they're a special snowflake for picking up a controller or casually sitting at a desktop to play a game. They garner attention to themselves. I'm not saying any death threats are justified, but when you have a game like league where there isn't any way you can tell if a person is a girl unless they tell you, it makes me wonder how exactly they found out she was a girl. It also doesn't help when 90% of the girls on twitch represent women for gaming, but don't play the game at all. I honestly blame the beta guys for making it so easy to get a quick buck out of them to support these "gamer girls". Im all for girls playing games, i think its pretty cool. But the only way someone is going to harass you is if you enable them to. Gaming used to be a casual thing for actual gamers to enjoy, i guess people just dont like being invaded by people who legitimately dont care about gaming.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

I created my girlfriends name, "unicornp00p" and she loved it. She even uses it for other stuff now.

I agree that, women who wish to be treated equally, will be TREATED equally, so hold your own damn door. I have watched three dainty girls on there phones squeeze through a door (after some guy walked in) before it closed, with the last girl hitting her face on the edge of the door.

I still, and probably always will hold the door though. I get stuck sometimes holding it between passing periods because I can't let a door close on a girls face. :c

SexySoapTurtle1 votes

{quoted}

I created my girlfriends name, "unicornp00p" and she loved it. She even uses it for other stuff now.

I agree that, women who wish to be treated equally, will be TREATED equally, so hold your own damn door. I have watched three dainty girls on there phones squeeze through a door (after some guy walked in) before it closed, with the last girl hitting her face on the edge of the door.

I still, and probably always will hold the door though. I get stuck sometimes holding it between passing periods because I can't let a door close on a girls face. :c

You should be holding doors for both genders. Thats just common courtesy. Women are no different

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

Here's where I can put my 2nd Wave bomb in. (Referring to 2nd Wave Feminism)

As a courtesy, I hold the door to whomever I see coming by. As a rule, I hold the door for every lady.

I actually believe that men are physically superior to women. I struggled accepting that, because of my realization of the differences between men and women, and the accommodations I made for, actually made me a feminist. Specifically a second wave feminist. I'm okay with that, despite me being very patriarchal somehow I was a feminist.

I don't agree with 3rd wave feminism. That's women taking back their sexuality and the other exhausting list. One thing I can tell you about that though, Feminism doesn't agree with itself. Women can't agree even if they themselves are feminist, and sometimes they're fake feminists. Women making money off twitch.tv by twerking is upsetting, and that's 3rd wave feminism.

I'd implore you to read on the differences between the different feminist ideals, see which one you think is most common and whether or not you found yourself aligning with the ideals at all. (First, second, or third wave feminism). I can actually tell you're one of those three already.

SexySoapTurtle2 votes

{quoted}

Here's where I can put my 2nd Wave bomb in. (Referring to 2nd Wave Feminism)

As a courtesy, I hold the door to whomever I see coming by. As a rule, I hold the door for every lady.

I actually believe that men are physically superior to women. I struggled accepting that, because of my realization of the differences between men and women, and the accommodations I made for, actually made me a feminist. Specifically a second wave feminist. I'm okay with that, despite me being very patriarchal somehow I was a feminist.

I don't agree with 3rd wave feminism. That's women taking back their sexuality and the other exhausting list. One thing I can tell you about that though, Feminism doesn't agree with itself. Women can't agree even if they themselves are feminist, and sometimes they're fake feminists. Women making money off twitch.tv by twerking is upsetting, and that's 3rd wave feminism.

I'd implore you to read on the differences between the different feminist ideals, see which one you think is most common and whether or not you found yourself aligning with the ideals at all. (First, second, or third wave feminism). I can actually tell you're one of those three already.

I would die before i became a feminist. I mean this as no insult to you, but you sound cucked Hard . I can tell that you're a liberal, and you reside on the left side. With the introduction of feminism, chivalry is dying, Fast . But can you blame people? Feminsm itself is literally another form of cancer. Men are of course superior physically to women. Why would you struggle excepting that, its literally biology. I really don't care about the 2nd , 4th, 500th, wave bullshit terms that liberals think up to confuse people. You're either a feminist or you're not. If you think women are being attacked in todays society you need to open your eyes.

Soraka Rules1 votes

League?? No way! Its the bored nerds who care enough about gender in a video game in the first place! Besides attention whores who take advantage, just knowing you're a girl in a video game attracts a ton of unwanted attention/special treatment. I have tons of friends who could care less as well so lol. Christina was killed a psycho btw (rip)

Rand0mH3r0X2 votes

There are people who take advantage of men who think they're taking advantage of women. Irony really is god's humor.

Any person that broadcasts anything about queing up with a girl, I immediately follow it up with pictures of grills.

Looking for cute girl to duo with high gold/low plat title^

.

Rand0mh3r0X: Bruh, got you. http://s4.thisnext.com/media/largest_dimension/65BB197B.jpg

Unfortunately that psycho had an LoL account, followed her on twitch.tv, and isn't the only person with the same classification. There's more people like that out there. Mental illness is a tough issue, I'm not sure how the League community, can deal with it in a way that protects its own players, even just to protect a minority of players.

proud and bronze1 votes

league is an inhospitable place for Everyone. if you are a woman then yes people will hate on you for that. but dont think that it makes you special ladies. they also will hate on you if you are fat, jewish, gay, black or anything else.

give people an opening and they will jump on it. that is the internet in general and especially online gaming.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

And do you think it will ever change?

proud and bronze2 votes

i think it will never change as long as people are anonymous. when no one knows who you are then you are free to act however you want without repercussions. and apparently most people want to act like jerks.

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