Boards›Player Behavior

20 minute FF creates Toxicity.

Tocosrevenge··3 votes·1,097 views

You want a toxic free environment so bad? Remove the 20 minute Surrender. Make it 5-10 minutes.

To honestly expect people to sit there for 20 minutes in a game that was over in the first 2 minutes is 100% what causes people to flame others.

I don't even need to add more to this post because its common sense. You expect people to wait and set up a game @ approx. 10 mins from que to game start. Then be force to play another 20 minutes minimum. You start taking a half an hour out of peoples lives and they are going to start getting angry. When 3/5 of your team have 5 deaths already at 5 minute mark its a joke to make them wait until the 20 minute mark. Honestly Riot is setting people up to be toxic so they can ban them, and have them start a new account raking in more and more money throwing out more and more bans. Riot is bad people.

EDIT: I keep seeing lots of downvotes and people flaming me for being a noob, but only 1 logical response to the post. GJ community, you are good at foruming.

30 Comments

DeynaTaggerung5 votes

There are very few situations where the game has actually been decided by the 10 minute mark(very very few) simply because fed players can be shut down, cohesive mid game decisions and teamfights can easily swing gold back, and consistent csing makes the kill gold a smaller percent of the overall gold. The only place it's been decided is inside your head and possibly the heads of your teammates.

On the mental side of things, you probably shouldn't consider a losing game a waste of time, because then you'll waste half your time playing League (Your MMR will change till your winrate settles around 50%) and that really doesn't sound like a great idea. Learning to find meaning in just playing the game as best you're able is really helpful. Learning to get better at your champ's mechanics, learning how to play from behind. Make smaller goals to shut down their most fed member, try to do an effective split push, think about how you could position in teamfights to be more effective(teamfigting when you don't have the power to just charge in is a tricky business and actually really fun to pull off). There's so much you can learn and enjoy while "losing" that I don't think you need to just run away as fast as you can. Who knows, you might actually win ;)

Of course if you can't afford to put in a chunk of time for each game then maybe League isn't necessarily the game for you? It's the nature of the game that each match is a time commitment.

Tocosrevenge1 votes

Thank you for being the ONE person who actually responded to the post instead of just flaming me for being a noob.

I agree with you and 99% of the time I will just keep giving it my all through the full game even if its long gone. There are those 1% of games though, when there is no comeback. The skill level between the teams is a huge difference and even playing it out doesn't help because when the enemy team is 1 shotting your whole team there is nothing to learn. You can try but you wont learn anything, what you will learn is that when the other team is that fed you just want to surrender because the only way to stay alive is stay under your inhibitor turrets and hope the other team doesn't dive you.

Im not saying that comebacks are impossible, I am saying that the 20 minute mark is too much and creates toxicity. That is all. Someone is forced to play 20 minutes with absolutely no chance of winning because he has 4 teammates afk or intentionally feeding. That's a bit ridiculous and its irresponsible or Riot to think that people should keep playing the 20 minutes. 20 minutes is not a long time, its not a lot of time, but sitting for 20 minutes to accomplish nothing can get extremely frustrating when you are an adult and time is valuable.

DeynaTaggerung2 votes

I see what you're saying. I think the idea behind the 20 minute mark though is because as you said, the majority of games need at least that long before it's clear surrendering is necessary. You're right, there are a few games where there's really no hope for the team from early on, but since those are so obviously the minority Riot doesn't want to encourage people giving up too early in all the rest of the games, because there are people like that, who just want to give up way too soon. I think the reason there's been a lot of negativity is because it wasn't clear whether you were one of them or not.

I think in those 1% of games you might be best off just messing around to keep yourself interested somehow. My go to in those situations is going on a warding mission of their base, try to get a ward in their fountain without dying. Go farm in their jungle, etc. The game will end quickly anyways if you're not defending and you won't be bored while doing it. Just make sure it really is that edge case and not something that happens too often.

Tocosrevenge1 votes

Yeah you're right. When I look at the big picture a game like that doesn't happen as often as good games. They stand out a lot more and can be frustrating but I guess it would be more frustrating to have people surrender on a winnable game than it is to wait 20 minutes on an unwinnable game that rarely happens. Thanks for your input.

DeynaTaggerung1 votes

No problem, I'm really glad I could help you think about it :)

Zen Fury4 votes

Opposing team scored touchdown on opening kickoff. Clearly the game is over. #nologic

Gated D Latch4 votes

First Blood (in favor of enemy team)

OH ITS GG FOLKS BETTER FF AT 5 MINUTES

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Tocosrevenge1 votes

At low ELOs depending on the Champion that gets first blood it literally is over with the snowballing right now.

Tocosrevenge1 votes

More like opening play the opposing team scores a touch down while breaking the legs of every player on the team. PLAY MUST GO ON UNTIL ATLEAST THE 20 MINUTE MARK. AND THEY BETTER NO ASK FOR A WHEELCHAIR THEY BETTER KEEP PLAYING WITH BROKEN LEGS UNTIL THE 20 MINUTE MARK.

Dedraak1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zen Fury,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=AyxsEhjl,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-03T22:24:36.595+0000)

Opposing team scored touchdown on opening kickoff. Clearly the game is over. #nologic

Ehhh... I mean I can see where he is coming from... if your team is up 31-0 by the end of the first quarter... no way you're losing that game. Unless you're Oregon, then your best player dc's and you lose in OT.

xReadyPlayerOnex1 votes

{quoted}

Ehhh... I mean I can see where he is coming from... if your team is up 31-0 by the end of the first quarter... no way you're losing that game. Unless you're Oregon, then your best player dc's and you lose in OT.

  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monday_Night_Miracle_(American_football)
  2. http://www.profootballhof.com/football-history/greatest-comebacks-in-nfl-history/

I have beaten a 24/4 Miss Fortune by mid game and by game end she was 28/10. Many other examples, but this was recent. In the immortal words of Yogi Berra, "It ain't over 'till it's over."

You can fight every second you have available to come back. You can choose not to die again, you can play better, cs more, clear jg, steal baron and dragon and backdoor while 5 people hack at your nexus and STILL win if you believe it can happen. Because the best players in this game choose to do these things and more and come out on top. You believing it can't happen is an assumption of the mind, defeat weighing on the soul and as all mentalities that hold us back, a complete lie. Every loss isn't always a surrender, but EVERY surrender is a loss.

Dedraak1 votes

{quoted}

  1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monday_Night_Miracle_(American_football)
  2. http://www.profootballhof.com/football-history/greatest-comebacks-in-nfl-history/

I have beaten a 24/4 Miss Fortune by mid game and by game end she was 28/10. Many other examples, but this was recent. In the immortal words of Yogi Berra, "It ain't over 'till it's over."

You can fight every second you have available to come back. You can choose not to die again, you can play better, cs more, clear jg, steal baron and dragon and backdoor while 5 people hack at your nexus and STILL win if you believe it can happen. Because the best players in this game choose to do these things and more and come out on top. You believing it can't happen is an assumption of the mind, defeat weighing on the soul and as all mentalities that hold us back, a complete lie. Every loss isn't always a surrender, but EVERY surrender is a loss.

Yeah you're totally right. I was just looking for a way to make fun of Oregon for blowing that game (for those who didn't get it, they tied for the biggest blown lead in a bowl game ever). Love the Yogi Berra reference too!

BeatzBoyFTW4 votes

Oh great, so now you want people to surrender just because:

  • someone gave off first blood.
  • having a lower CS advantage of 3.
  • when your mid laner plays Galio instead of your everyday Zed.

This is so pathetic.....

Tocosrevenge1 votes

I don't remember saying any of that.

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

And you thought FF at 5 minutes is only related to toxicity because.........?

Tocosrevenge1 votes

I said that when people have to wait 20 minutes to surrender in obvious unwinnable or skill difference game, they are going to flame and rage(toxicity) which is what apparently this community does not want.

If you're wondering why someone would be toxic for having to wait the 20 minutes is because when you are an adult you don't always have a lot of free time to play video games, and when people ruin your experience and you are forced to wait 20 minutes and you cant leave the game, you can't do anything but keep getting rekt, you have no choice.

So you have 1 hour to play some league. You spend a few minutes logging in, queing up and going through champ select and load in screen. Then you have 2 afks and another is raging already because of the 2 afks and the other is just oblivious to anything. 5 minutes in the other team has basically run over you, killed the oblivious player 3 times and taken turret. You have no jung because you only have 3 people playing. The rager is just running through jung getting picked off and basically you are trying to stay under turret and get a kill but get turret dived by the rest of the other team. You've already spent 15 minutes so far (log in, champ select, load in, first 5 mins.) and now you have no choice but to keep getting rekt for 15 more minutes until you can surrender. Most likely the enemy team will be loving it and getting every jungle camp, dragon and rift herald instead of going for the nexus. Game is finally over. 30 minutes of your hour are thrown out the window because even though you tried, you learned nothing from the game. So you have 30 minutes left, except its irresponsible to que up if you don't have an hour of time.

So you lost the only hour you had all day to play league because of some randoms. You're telling me you cant understand why someone would want to have an option to FF earlier? You cant see why someone might have a hard time not raging until the 20 minute mark?

xReadyPlayerOnex3 votes

Do you have ANY idea how many games I've WON while 1 asshole and 2 people agreeing with him spam surrender from 20 minutes to 50 minutes?

I'm for removing FF altogether. You're there to win. Not to give up half way through. It's FUCKING DEATHMATCH... you don't give up cause you need to make a sammich.

Tocosrevenge1 votes

Myself as well, I do my best to keep the attitude you have every game, I slipped up though. I admire your determination.

HEAljvLykd2 votes

[deleted]

Tocosrevenge1 votes

[deleted]

Gated D Latch1 votes

You're the toxic one here

Tocosrevenge1 votes

hahahahahaha Here we go. Come at my League Community. Flame me for being toxic in your eyes.

Gated D Latch1 votes

Can you just look at yourself for a moment? Look at how you react to someone just pointing out the truth on the internet.... it's ridicuous

Tocosrevenge1 votes

[deleted]

Gated D Latch1 votes

Teach me how this game should be played then.

Question: How much angrier can you get at some stranger (no pun intended) on the internet?

Tocosrevenge1 votes

Ive seen you tell 4 people already to "get good" and ive been on the internet for 5 minutes.

Do you have an real logical arguments for me? Why do you think the 20 minute FF should stay? Why does 20 minute FF not seem like a good idea to you? It certainly would keep people calmer and refrain from flaming.

IR3ALLY3NJOYC0CK2 votes

didnt you just post the other day talking about how you were banned? Add me on your smurf after your permaban.

Tocosrevenge1 votes

Super Relevant to the post.

Immane1 votes

I think they should remove FF altogether and stop allowing players to chat with each other =) Make it so if you AFK for a game you get banned for a week. Then see what happens.

Tocosrevenge1 votes

I would actually be for this.

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