Boards›Player Behavior

Return banned bought/botted accounts

SolidBaby··1 votes·4,753 views

Awhile ago Riot had some kind of internal initiative to identify and ban any accounts which had been botted. There were likely various reasons behind this and some of them valid however overall it was very a poor choice.

This hasn't reduced botting at all. It only punished the players who are most committed to League. You can't stop people from wanting to have a smurf, or many smurfs so you may as well embrace it. Because of this I think you should return the accounts to players and start selling accounts in the game store to qualified players (perhaps gating them based off solo q ranked since the people buying these are doing so to smurf in ranked).

Prohibition is ineffective and only exasperates the problem on a number of fronts. The main two being; it gives third party sellers incentive to bot accounts and it puts extremely high skilled players in extremely low skilled games (for those choosing to level an account). Neither is desirable and current state of things dramatically increases the occurrences of both. You're also forgoing a ton of free revenue. Instead it's being collected by people who causing your costs to increase by putting load on your infrastructure in order to produce their product. It just doesn't make any sense.

Lastly, to address the comments. This clearly isn't a popular opinion to have. However, none of these players have any reason to even participate in the discussion. They don't even play ranked. They have no interest in another account because they're not in gold, plat or diamond and looking to be able to play a less serious game with their friends occasionally or something along those lines. Their account suites their very casual, low skill, league needs just fine however, their irrational dislike for the idea of selling accounts isn't any reasonable argument against it. It's just a remark of jealousy. Apparently some people below are offended at how my 3rd or 4th smurf has higher elo than they've ever been able to achieve... Whatever.

31 Comments

PIMPSMOOTH11 votes

you banned my property and the property of other players who had violated the summoners code

It was never your property, and you agreed to that.

How much money you spent means nothing if you can't follow their rules which you agreed to also.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

SolidBaby1 votes

I don't think you understand the rules... People who have bought an account violated one clause of the summoners code and therefor had the account banned. That doesn't make the account any less my property, I bought it. That's how things work in the United States. If you cuss at someone in a game you also violated a clause of the summoners code. If you had your account banned how would you react to that?

alasarcher4 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you understand the rules... People who have bought an account violated one clause of the summoners code and therefor had the account banned. That doesn't make the account any less my property, I bought it. That's how things work in the United States. If you cuss at someone in a game you also violated a clause of the summoners code. If you had your account banned how would you react to that?

If u buy property that doesnt belong to person thats selling it,that doent make it ur property. Whoever sold u account did it illegaly, it was never his,so it could never be yours.

SolidBaby1 votes

OK I'm not going to bother arguing the semantics of this after this comment. I violated the user agreement. Riot does not dictate what is and isn't my property, that's the role of our government. The account was legally my property. That is not up for debate. Riot did not take it away because it wasn't mine to begin with, they banned it because I, the owner of the account (my property) violated the user agreement I signed.

Do you get the distinction? I would be willing to bet that over 90% of players have violated the user agreement on one or more occasions. Everyone who does something 'toxic' in game is in violation. Riot happens to not strictly punish those actions.

Once again, "illegally" "so it could never be yours" these are all completely false statement. Riot does not make the laws in the United States or whatever country you live in in Europe. I violated their user agreement and I'm suggesting they change that.

Daen5 votes

I violated the user agreement.

Yes, yes you did. Why are you surprised at the outcome?

Riot does not dictate what is and isn't my property The account was legally my property.

Well gosh, I wonder if Riot has something in their user agreement about account ownership.

Wait, they do?

"NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO THE ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF RIOT GAMES."

I think that's pretty clear wording, don't you?

would be willing to bet that over 90% of players have violated the user agreement on one or more occasions.

Feel free to find an actual statistic, otherwise this statement is completely meaningless.

I violated their user agreement and I'm suggesting they change that.

In other words, because you don't agree with Riot's rules you decided to break them, and now that Riot has punished you for it you want them to change the terms? That's not how it works, my friend.

DrCyanide3 votes

The thing is, my account wouldn't be banned, because I (like most players) stay inside the rules.

And buying something from someone not authorized to sell it doesn't make it your property. I could buy your house from my cousin for $5, that wouldn't legitimately mean I own your house.

Awkward Couch2 votes

Well you are wrong on several accounts. You act like you violated the Summoners code, the SC is a guideline for behavior. What you violate when bought an account that's level 30 is the Terms of Use.

NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND YOU FURTHER ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO THE ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF RIOT GAMES. source

Even the account that you played with all this time isn't even your property.

D. Account Sales. The Account supplied to you is personal to you, and Riot Games does not recognize and expressly forbids the transfer of user Accounts. You shall not purchase, sell, gift or trade any Account, or make any such offer, and any attempt shall be null and void. Any distribution by you of your Account and/or your Login Credentials (except as expressly provided herein or otherwise explicitly approved of by Riot Games) may result in suspension or termination of your Account.

Again from the Terms of Use, which is the legal binding contract that you agree to when you make a profile, specifically states that you may not sell an account.

SolidBaby1 votes

OK, you're right on both points. But it would still be better for both players and Riot if they were selling accounts instead prohibiting it.

PIMPSMOOTH2 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you understand the rules...

{quoted}

OK, you're right on both points.

Glad that's settled. Next!

Awkward Couch1 votes

You are defiantly entitled to your own opinion. I just happen to disagree with you.

Raka Flaka MD8 votes

"I cheated but i spent money so suddenly i think it belongs to me. Common riot cheating never hurt anyone". kappa.

SolidBaby2 votes

It's not about money. It's about player experience and economics. Can you explain how that is cheating? What is unfair about it? How does it negatively effect other players for me to buy a level 30 account that has nothing unlocked? How is it fair to a new league player to have gold-diamond elo players in their game?

Lastly, work on your semantics. I didn't cheat, and yes I bought and it legally belongs to me. Riot can ban it because they have a user agreement I signed which I violated one of the many points in. You mocking other players is also a violation of the summoners code. They just happen to be permissive of your bratty immature attitude.

alasarcher4 votes

{quoted}

It's not about money. It's about player experience and economics. Can you explain how that is cheating? What is unfair about it? How does it negatively effect other players for me to buy a level 30 account that has nothing unlocked? How is it fair to a new league player to have gold-diamond elo players in their game?

Lastly, work on your semantics. I didn't cheat, and yes I bought and it legally belongs to me. Riot can ban it because they have a user agreement I signed which I violated one of the many points in. You mocking other players is also a violation of the summoners code. They just happen to be permissive of your bratty immature attitude.

It doesnt legally belong to you, you didnt buy it from owner

TheSeltzerBaron7 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

ModKnightsKemplar5 votes

Oh boy... where should I start.

Botting is not harmless AT ALL. It's incredibly frustrating for new players, and it dilutes the experience significantly. Your arrogant assumption that other players don't care is just flat out wrong. I'm glad they were banned, and if I ever heard they weren't anymore I would be angry as hell.

Most of us played long hours to get to lvl 30, and we learned a TON about the game during that grind. Taking that away is also super harmful for the game. Having lvl 30 players that have barely played trying to win is just... stupid. So there's at least that reason for not allowing it.

And I've never understood why people need more than 1 account. I have exactly 1. Not even any smurfs. I don't get it, and I think they are super unhealthy for the game, especially for new players. What is the deal with all these secondary accounts? What kind of time do you people have to have 3-8 league accounts? WTF. Get a job or something, jeez.

BladeSteel1 votes

I have two because I stopped playing for a few years, lost my email to my first one, made the second because I didn't think i'd be able to get the first one back, and after the second got to level 16ish, i got the first one (this one) back. So I have two. When my friend started playing I used the other account so it would be closer to their level of play. (i wasn't very good after taking a 3 year break.)

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

That sounds much more reasonable than the 6 accounts the OP claims to have had. I do understand why some people have 2. 3 feels silly, and 6? 6 means you have a problem. See a doctor.

SolidBaby1 votes

Firstly, this suggestion is intended to reduce botting. Accounts are botted because Riot doesn't sell them. Instead some third party has written a not very sophisticated piece of software to emulate the act of playing and is leveling up accounts in mass quantities for resale. This has nothing to do with me or you. There is plenty of demand for this product and someone is going to supply it, I'm suggesting Riot be that person in order to reduce the negative experience it's currently creating.

Regarding the hours put in to leveling. I too did that once, I don't need to do it again. Me playing those hours is silly. I work more than full time. I have plenty of money, not a lot of time. It is far more economical for me to pay someone else to do this for me. That is solely the reason why accounts are being botted and bought.

Lastly, I've noticed most of the comments here are from people who don't play ranked. That's largely why you don't understand. If you were in a high elo bracket you would see that unless all of your friends happen to also be in similarly high elo (this probably begins at about gold and there is a big gap between each league) you can't really play a game with a lot of your friends and have it be an enjoyable experience. Like my friends won't queue with me on my main account because they get stomped and don't have the same desire to be good at league that I do and therefor rather than viewing that as a learning experience they rage and quit and refuse to play if it's with my main.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I do play ranked, and I'm gold. No, it isn't that high. Getting a hard science PhD takes a lot of time...

Point is, your post, as pointed out by Daen, is basically summarized as "I don't like Riot's rules, so they should chnage them."

I'm not here to tell you that's invalid. I'm here to tell you I strongly disagree, and so does Riot, at least for now. Your post makes this sound like it would be good for players, and I disagree. Your post makes it sound like the majority of the community buys accounts and uses bots. I doubt it.

Riot supplying it doesn't make it good for the game. It's still bad, and applaud them for banning those accounts and continuing to take a hard stance against it, instead of caving and making the game suck more.

Daen4 votes

Firstly, you banned my property and the property of other players

Your account is not your property, it's Riot Games'. You, the player, are effectively leasing the account, and Riot can terminate this lease at any time and for any reason. In this case, the reason is breach of their rules.

For example, I had an account banned that I bought at lvl 30 with no champs or runes and about 30,000 IP. You then banned that account because 3 years ago, the person who I bought it from ranked it up from lvl 1 to 30 using a script of some sort.

So let me get this straight: You knowingly broke Riot's rules by purchasing an account and are surprised that they banned it?

These players happen to be your best customers Rito. People who were into League enough to not only play all the time on one account but to spend time and/or money on other accounts as well. I

[citation needed]

Here's the down-low: If you break Riot's rules, they will address that breach in conduct. The reason they punish people for buying/selling accounts is that they own the content, not the person selling it.

Kei1432 votes

Not saying that botting is correct, but I do see the economics of "legalizing" purchasing accounts.

This underground market is still going to happen, even though Riot bans out the accounts. People are still willing to purchase the accounts, knowing the risks. Legalizing purchasable accounts means Riot can make more money by selling accounts. It'll help reduce botting at low level games and toxic smurfs as well. It'll also remove the need to monitor and enforce the rule, hence saving cost for the company.

One of the downsides is that match making for lower level games will be much harder as the population reduces.

Real life example: Canada is legalising Marijuana as 50%+ of the population smoke it. The government is going to tax the heck outta the sales hence making extra revenue while reducing police / court / jail cost. If you can't stop them, join them, providing if the ones making the policies agree with the morals behind it.

SolidBaby1 votes

Yes I don't think botting is correct, I just think Riot should return the accounts to the players at this point. Likely in Canada people who are incarcerated for marijuana related offenses will be released after legalization, kind of the same idea.

The intent is to reduce harm like with the repeal of other forms of prohibition. Thanks for getting the idea.

Awkward Couch1 votes

Botting would exist in any senario. Why would I spend years playing enough games to gain IP to by all the champs and 20 rune pages, not to mention the expense of the runes themselves, when I can have a bot do it for me while I'm at school or work? This may be an option to stop from forming fresh level 30 accounts, but botting will always exist. I used to play a lot of TF2, there were always bots in games because the drops would occur even if you just sat idol. Instead of playing for 10+ hours, I'd just turn on my program when I went to bed and then by the time I'm done with class I'd have my drops for the week.

Awkward Couch1 votes

Bought accounts ruin the experience for everyone. No one wants to play a bunch of games with bots, and if they buy a high level account that is higher MMR than the actual player, that ruins the game for at least that player's 4 team mates. Bought accounts are the worst and no one wants to deal with them.

Secondly, you did cheat, with all that IP that you get from a clean level 30, you can buy almost all the champions and possibly some runes. I had to play a lot of games to get my account where it is today, you just bought it. Now if you were going to buy all the champs with RP that is a different story. You are directly supporting Riot and buying champs with RP is allowed. The fact that you can have almost all the champs or all the runes by spending a couple of bucks is completely unfair.

Just because boting and reselling will still exist, doesn't mean that we should just give up on the rules. If we gave up on rules just because the weren't 100 percent effective at stopping the crime, we would live in anarchy.

As far as Pro players goes, the only time they get level 30 accounts is when they are doing bootcamps in other regions. These players are there for several weeks before they leave. After the boot camp, if they want to play on that server, they have to start a new account just like everyone else. This is particuarly prudent for regions like Korea, where you have to get a gaming licence that is tied to you Social Security Number. Not only that, but all LCS players are paid by Riot as employees.

IcyPepper1 votes

Firstly, you banned my property and the property of other players who had violated the summoners code, yes, but in a way that is not particularly harmful.

Yes it is harmful. Why? Because you broke your legal agreement with Riot Games when you play this game.

IV. OWNERSHIP

A. Intellectual Property. All rights and title in and to the Properties, and all content included therein (including, without limitation, user Accounts, computer code, titles, objects, artifacts, characters, character names, locations, location names, stories, story lines, dialog, catch phrases, artwork, graphics, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions and recordings, Riot Points (defined below), audio-visual effects, character likenesses, and methods of operation) are owned by Riot Games or its licensors. The Properties, and all content therein are protected by United States and other international intellectual property laws. Riot Games and its licensors reserve all rights in connection with the Properties, including, without limitation, the exclusive right to create derivative works therefrom. You agree that you will not create any work of authorship based on the Properties except as expressly permitted by Riot Games. Additionally, except as otherwise set forth in this Section IV.A, Riot Games does not authorize you to make any use whatsoever of any Riot Games trademarks, service marks, trade names, logos, domain names, taglines, and/or trade dress (collectively, the "Riot Games Marks") under any circumstances without a written license agreement. Any reproduction, redistribution, or modification of the Properties, or use of the Properties not in accordance with the EULA or this Agreement, is expressly prohibited by law and may result in severe civil and criminal penalties.

Notwithstanding the above, Riot Games may make a "fan kit" available to you (which may be located on the Site) that includes a limited license to use certain Riot Games Marks and other proprietary material. Except for the license expressly granted with the "fan kit," Riot Games reserves all rights, title, and interest in Riot Games Marks and all other intellectual property, and does not authorize you to display or use such in any manner, including but not limited to use on websites, on blogs, in forums, in signatures, on products, or in printed or electronic publications.

That's right, your account is not your property, it's Riot's property.

SolidBaby2 votes

Breaking an arbitrary agreement doesn't mean it's harmful. Unless you can explain how me buying an unranked level 30 account detracts from your experience as player then how can you say it's harmful?

IcyPepper4 votes

It's harmful primarily to Riot, which you seem to forget is one of the parties involved in the agreement you've made when playing this game.

It's like if there's a brother and sister (for example). The brother gives a bike for his sister to use, but he owns the bike but it's only for her to ride. One day, without telling him, she sells it to someone else.

It's a betrayal of trust, for one, not to mention all the security issues that could crop up. It's harmful to Riot because you're breaking a legal agreement, not to mention that they could potentially lose money if someone were to buy an account from someone that already has skins. Yes, the skins had to be purchased in the first place, but rather than two peope buying it's only one person buying and another person buying it secondhand. Secondhand markets, for the obvious reason, doesn't profit the original owner.

It hurts Riot, and there are ways for it to hurt players too. It's not okay, it's not legal, and it's not your property to give away in the first place. DIdn't your parents teach you it's not okay to give other people's stuff away (or worse, sell it for your own profit and the actual owner who is a business loses out on potential profit)?

SmokedAlmonds1 votes

{quoted}

Breaking an arbitrary agreement doesn't mean it's harmful. Unless you can explain how me buying an unranked level 30 account detracts from your experience as player then how can you say it's harmful?

Someone botted to get that account to 30 which ruined countless people. Usually by the time you are 30 your normal MMR would be somewhat accurate. So you harmed another huge amount of players by having a MMR that is less accurate than it would have been for 100+ games while it calibrated to your skill level.

Some of that could be mitigated by riot selling them since it would take bots out of the equation but it still plops people at level 30, overwhelmed by everything that exists and 0 data to base matchmaking off. Riot selling accounts doesn't even guarantee that bots will stop. They would still possibly be able to undercut riot. Since the price would probably be at least $30 but probably should be more to discourage people from actually doing it. Riot also doesn't really want people to have other accounts as they often do more harm than good. It also reduces the effectiveness of perma bans.

Raw1 votes

{quoted}

**They have no interest in another account because they're not in gold, plat or diamond and looking to be able to play a less serious game with their friends occasionally **

My Master friend has no problem playing normal for fun with me and here you are as a gold V think he need a fucking smurf just to play for fun lmfao http://www.auplod.com/u/upodal6d995.png Here, me and my diamond friends doing 5 man premade in normal. http://www.auplod.com/u/lupoad6d997.png http://www.auplod.com/u/uopadl6d63e.png

COBRA C0MM4NDER1 votes

OP sounds like he's saying this : "I like sex, but cannot invest myself in a relationship, I'll hire me an escort instead"

or " you banned me because I like to walk into a playground and stomp the little kids with my skills"

just saying, it's what that sounds like to me.

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