General discussion about ban for chat related offenses

DarthArchon·Aug 5, 2019·1 votes·1,666 views

So i got ban permanently for chat offenses, not gonna pretend i'm not guilty of it and it doesn't matter cause it does. However i have a bunch a worthwhile opinion that i think have value and should be discussed.

First off in infinite punishment is always unfair, no matter the crime. Banning someone forever isn't fair, show the mindset that people can't be redeemed and change. Also in my opinion the ban is too strong of a punishment to begin with for basically words. It will sound like excuses, but i almost never start flaming, however if someone tell me something dumb and plain wrong or start flaming me, there's no way i'm not gonna continue and be worst then the guy. I'm like that i don't start fight but if it happen i finish them a winner. Unfortunately this as the effect of me getting reported more often then the one initiating the flaming. I also know that even when i dispise someone in a game i don't change my in game behavior toward that player, even if i hate the guy. If a kill is better spent on him i won't steal it, if i can die so one of us can get away i will die. Raging doesn't affect me all that much, however i know it can others.

In my humble opinion riot failed to make the community less toxic, maybe because our brain ain't design to humanize chat boxes online, this issue is widespread, not secluded to online games, virtually every online platform has this syndrome. Doesn't mean we shouldn't thrive for a healthier community. We should however be careful about the methods. Personally i wouldn't really care about being permanently banned from chat, it would be fairer imo and directly related to the issue. Also am i the only one who feel like riot's hammering on chat offenses didn't actually make the community less toxic, player still throw low punches and flame, the game is just way more quiet. People don't talk most of the time, no planning in pre-game lobby, no in game coordination through chat. Death silent most of the time.

Let's face an obvious truth about LoL. The game is clearly targeted toward young teenagers, sexually suggestive skins and childish champion (zoe, yuumi, etc) That explain alot about riot's behavior to justify themselves as protector of the players. Online toxicity can be negative to young people and is much easier to do online, however it's also easier to dismiss. The way i see it, it'd be better to tell players that they have agency and power to mute player they don't like and encourage them to do so, and tell the muted person they're getting muted. This build self-confidence, having riot taking care of it doesn't.

Lastly Most of my friend stopped playing league over time, none stopped playing cause of toxicity, it's never an issue for 20+ yrs old guys. The main reason is inconsistent match making. Having randomly good or bad player all the time, lane going 0/6/0 in 8 min isn't supposed to happen in gold and up. Playing a recently release champion, make it clear to everyone you don't care about playing a character you can't possibly be familiar with. Having lane partner as a support that can rekt a lane then having some that can only afk farm mean there is no distinction to the actual players in game skills. Having jgl who have no objective control all game long in gold isn't supposed to happen. Basic game concept are missing for so many players and elo ain't very accurate in general. I know all these thing are hard to take into account. however it took riot's 4 season to implement role match making 4 YEARS, when other moba made it a possibility months into the game's release. There seem to be a mentality of pumping more of the same (skins, champion) and not make the game better overall and more competitive, there is little return in investment to make those complicated algorithm that take into account a player average dmg, cs count, trade profits, etc. However on the long run you win cause player keep playing the game, they feel less like game are roll of the dice every third games and keep playing. The main reason i rage is because player play poorly, troll or don't care and we all no trolling and inting ain't really punished, not as much as chat offenses and does anyone really think players skills is less important than a healthy chat?? Why not make a tutoring game mode where highly honored player can coach willing player for some shards? make player connect instead of thinking you can rule over them your way. Like a society, forcing behavior on people doesn't work, empowering them the right way does.

Hope this discussion goes a long way, this game is still worth playing and we know it's dwindling right now, let's change some stuff!

5 Comments

rujitraAug 5, 20195 votes

Permanent punishments shouldn't be given.

You are saying Riot should just let people keep ruining games? The permanent ban is only given when you have refused to change your behavior after multiple very clear warnings. Riot doesn't want you playing League.

Permanently banning chat is better.

No it's not. It caused more trolling and intentionally feeding when Riot tried it.

The game is targeted to teenagers.

The rules apply to everyone equally. If you can't control yourself, not our problem. Over 80% of players never even get a chat restriction, much less a permaban.

My friends all left because of matchmaking.

Sounds like your friends are childish and looking for someone else to blame. If you deserve to be ranked higher, you will get there. There's 4 teammates and 5 enemies, thus there's a higher chance the "bad" players are on the enemy team causing you to win the game.

Regardless, this doesn't mean toxicity isn't a problem.

Imperial PandaaAug 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Permanently banning chat is better.

Just sort of to tack on for OP to see. A player can effectively do this for themselves. All chat was off by default and now you can disable Ally.

If the player can't decide "Well, I just got a 14 day ban; I should effectively remove myself from chat." Then I don't feel they get to ask for permanently banning chat.

DarthArchonAug 7, 20191 votes

-Permanent punishments shouldn't be given. -You are saying Riot should just let people keep ruining games? The permanent ban is only given when you have refused to change your behavior after multiple very clear warnings. Riot doesn't want you playing League.

Well first off it's a control freak mentality to think they can and it's their job to change people's behavior. Also there are clear and less extreme way to deal with it. You can condone that self-righteous attitude but imo it doesn't work and might blind them to see other means to achieve the exact same end. Thinking like you're the defender of the downtrodden can inflate an ego beyond the point where your actions actually serve to protect those individuals.

-You are saying Riot should just let people keep ruining games? The permanent ban is only given when you have refused to change your behavior after multiple very clear warnings. Riot doesn't want you playing League.

Riot can do w/e they want, still unfair and their way aren't working, people still whine about how much LoL is toxic, no matter how hard they're trying for years now.

-No it's not. It caused more trolling and intentionally feeding when Riot tried it.

Sure then actually ban troll and inter, we all know not much is done against them. Over punishment over the mentality that some player will troll/int after getting chat ban is a stretch. Also personally i wouldn't troll nor int because i can't chat seem only fair to at least try it.

-The game is targeted to teenagers. -The rules apply to everyone equally. If you can't control yourself, not our problem. Over 80% of players never even get a chat restriction, much less a permaban.

You seem to have missed the point here, the argument is that riot is cater to the young audience. Say w/e you want against me but go talk to any other moba player, they'll all say the same thing "league is for kids" and it's getting increasingly harder to argue against that.

-My friends all left because of matchmaking. -Sounds like your friends are childish and looking for someone else to blame. If you deserve to be ranked higher, you will get there. There's 4 teammates and 5 enemies, thus there's a higher chance the "bad" players are on the enemy team causing you to win the game.

Missing the point again, most player can tell when they play badly. Doesn't change that for many games if not most games there is such heavy swing in team strength from game to game it actually feel random. Stomping a game and wining in less than 20 min, to have the next game be with feeder and griever who lose the game in the first 5 min, it ain't fun and there's probably something to do about it.

Can you tell me your opinion about empowering players to mute those they don't like? Because it's seem to me, when the option is clearly on the table anytime you want and you keep talking to a rager... well you kinda condone it and are ok with it. Am i wrong? or are we infantilizing everyone as being incapable of agency over their own mute button?

rujitraAug 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Well first off it's a control freak mentality to think they can and it's their job to change people's behavior.

Riot doesn't want to change peoples' behavior. Riot merely wants them to behave while playing Riot's game.

Also there are clear and less extreme way to deal with it.

And these ways (such as more chat restrictions/bans) have not worked in the past.

Riot can do w/e they want, still unfair and their way aren't working, people still whine about how much LoL is toxic, no matter how hard they're trying for years now.

So, because they can't fix it all and make it perfect, they should stop trying everything?

Sure then actually ban troll and inter, we all know not much is done against them. Over punishment over the mentality that some player will troll/int after getting chat ban is a stretch. Also personally i wouldn't troll nor int because i can't chat seem only fair to at least try it.

The problem is trolling and intentional feeding is a lot harder to confirm - meaning potentially dozens or hundreds of games ruined until there is enough concrete evidence to ban an account.

You seem to have missed the point here, the argument is that riot is cater to the young audience. Say w/e you want against me but go talk to any other moba player, they'll all say the same thing "league is for kids" and it's getting increasingly harder to argue against that.

And this matters why?

Missing the point again, most player can tell when they play badly. Doesn't change that for many games if not most games there is such heavy swing in team strength from game to game it actually feel random. Stomping a game and wining in less than 20 min, to have the next game be with feeder and griever who lose the game in the first 5 min, it ain't fun and there's probably something to do about it.

If you feel it's "random" and that you're not climbing when you deserve to, I can't change your mind. But that doesn't make it true.

Can you tell me your opinion about empowering players to mute those they don't like? Because it's seem to me, when the option is clearly on the table anytime you want and you keep talking to a rager... well you kinda condone it and are ok with it. Am i wrong? or are we infantilizing everyone as being incapable of agency over their own mute button?

The mute button is to prevent my game from being further ruined. The report and punishment features are so you do not ruin other players' game in the future.

DarthArchonAug 7, 20191 votes

-Riot doesn't want to change peoples' behavior. Riot merely wants them to behave while playing Riot's game.

Read that slowly... Riot doesn't want to change peoples' behavior >> Riot merely wants them to behave ........ My mother doesn't want me to drink 4 liter of water a day, she merely want me to drink my 4 liter of water a day, if not banned from house, no pressure.... My father doesn't want me to come home early, he merely want me to be home before sunset if not banned from house, no pressure.... either dishonest or your cognitive dissonance got the better of you lol

Every argument until this one: "The problem is trolling and intentional feeding is a lot harder to confirm - meaning potentially dozens or hundreds of games ruined until there is enough concrete evidence to ban an account." is solve as soon as they find a way to successfully ban troll/inter. We all know it's hard, it doesn't legitimize irrational and over bearing methods. Troll and inter do ruin "dozens or hundreds of games" almost nothing is done against them. So let me get this straight. It's hard to prove an actual troll is ruining a game, so let's do nothing about it and let's overkill chat rager instead because, we can prove something more? lazy ass way of thinking and fundamentally debased of rational.

-And this matters why?

Well if it doesn't matter to you fine.. but it does to so many player, many who left for other games because of it.

-If you feel it's "random" and that you're not climbing when you deserve to, I can't change your mind. But that doesn't make it true.

This argument like the one of the same kind you did before, is basicly a sneaky ad hominem, trying to make it look like i don't know when i play poorly and when my team play poorly... before i got ban i was winning almost twice as many lp for a win then losing for a loss. Meaning i know very well that i was under ranked and with time i'd reach my elo... doesn't change anything about the 0/6 laner at 10 min

-The mute button is to prevent my game from being further ruined. The report and punishment features are so you do not ruin other players' game in the future.

Yet again you're putting chat rage on a pedestal as if it was the worst sin... inter and troll and player who play stuff they aren't used to are much more toxic for the game then rager, but because it's harder to prove, people just sheep themselves into thinking banning rager is more important.

We all know the game could go a long way toward being healthier and more competitive, yet you still hold the belief that catering to the young audience and doing the most minimal stuff to look virtuous (while it's not even working) is the best way to go. It nurture player who are likely to spend impulsively while more competitive player will leave...

all in all there are clearly other way but you seem to prefer laziness and quick/unsuccessful methods to cater to the young audience.