Forcing people to dodge

GIVE ME THE HELL·Jul 14, 2017·30 votes·3,256 views

Theres nothing worse than see someone was autofilled, and locked evelynn with cleanse and ghost, without saying a word. Thats pretty much forcing people to dodge so you dont need to support. I just had to Dodge game like that on last second, and not fun to lose 3 lp and waste like 15 min because of some clown cant play support once in 10 games. He could Dodge himself or ask if someone can swap roles, if there is no way he cant play one game support. But I see that as extremely toxic behavior and it should be reportable somehow. Feels worse than if someone calls you noob in game...

36 Comments

KVbqbFsC8eJul 14, 201714 votes

Isn't autofill great?

HalcyonDwellerJul 14, 201721 votes

That's not the fault of auto-fill. Don't shift the focus around.

This is about people being selfish trash who are willing to ruin the game for others if it means they won't have to do what they don't want to.

It's not that bad to get auto-filled, literally like once in 10-20 games. If someone is truly unable to do a role, they should ask for a swap. Most people are understanding or accommodating.

Role-stealing and going disco-nunu is such a douchebag move. People who do this are such shit-stains. And it is the most infuriating BS ever when you get one of them on your team and they force YOU to dodge and wait a queue timer instead of them.

Some Noob DudeJul 14, 20178 votes

But, people play games to have fun, and getting forced to do something you don't want to do is not fun. I personally don't mind supporting, but I can see why people wouldn't want to get forced into what they don't want to do. A lot of people wouldn't mind longer queues just to have autofill removed.

GIVE ME THE HELLJul 14, 20176 votes

Being forced to not be toxic towards your teammates isnt fun either?

If you cant autofill in any situation, go play normals, and have fun. Ranked is competitive mode, and you have to accept autofill as part of it. I don't like it either but its not that terrible once in 10 games.

Beas7ieJul 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=GIVE ME THE HELL,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0muY5woX,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-14T22:10:00.963+0000)

Being forced to not be toxic towards your teammates isnt fun either?

If you cant autofill in any situation, go play normals, and have fun. Ranked is competitive mode, and you have to accept autofill as part of it. I don't like it either but its not that terrible once in 10 games.

Playing in the "competitive mode" should be even MORE of a reason to not have to autofill. People have their own preferences, requirements of what makes the game fun, and positions their good at. Even if someone who normally jungles or plays top lane and very rarely if ever plays a role like support is willing to suck it up just because he got dumped into support, I still do NOT want him playing that role. First of all he doesn't really want to play it, and also, he's probably not going to be near as good as the enemy support who mains that role, knows the best champ matchups for that lane, and knows the ins and outs of to be successful.

Riot has compared this game to "real sports" like basketball, football(americano) and otheres on multiple occasions. Well all the pro players of those sports mainly play one, maybe 2 positions. That's their roles, that's what they like, that's what they're good at. You don't take your main quarterback and suddenly make him the safety, or a lineman and have him be quarterback, nor do you suddenly have the smallest guy on the basketball team be center doing the tipoff, and doing all the stuff that centers are supposed to be, while making your biggest guy the main ball handler. This shouldn't be any different, and while many times players do handle it poorly, I'd be lying if I said I always handled it well when I get autofilled(I usually just dodge) it's obviously something that can be very infuriating to someone who just wants to play their main role they're best at and have the best chance of climbing through elo hell.

HalcyonDwellerJul 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Playing in the "competitive mode" should be even MORE of a reason to not have to autofill. People have their own preferences, requirements of what makes the game fun, and positions their good at. Even if someone who normally jungles or plays top lane and very rarely if ever plays a role like support is willing to suck it up just because he got dumped into support, I still do NOT want him playing that role. First of all he doesn't really want to play it, and also, he's probably not going to be near as good as the enemy support who mains that role, knows the best champ matchups for that lane, and knows the ins and outs of to be successful.

I understand where you are coming from. It's unfair in a competitive environement to be forced to play a match handicapped and have it affect your overall ranking.

Personally I think Riot should implement a new ranking system where each player has a base MMR and then their experience or 'ranking' in each role modifies that to affect the skill level of players they are matched with and against by matchmaking.

Riot has compared this game to "real sports" like basketball, football(americano) and otheres on multiple occasions. Well all the pro players of those sports mainly play one, maybe 2 positions. That's their roles, that's what they like, that's what they're good at. You don't take your main quarterback and suddenly make him the safety, or a lineman and have him be quarterback, nor do you suddenly have the smallest guy on the basketball team be center doing the tipoff, and doing all the stuff that centers are supposed to be, while making your biggest guy the main ball handler.

You're talking about team sports where the team has played together many times. In Ranked 5s this is how it works. People are not switched off of their roles. But in solo-queue there is no guarantee you will find someone of the correct role to fill the empty slot on the team. This season Riot chose to use autofill to deal with this, as it only affects each player every once in a while, and they can speed up queue times considerably.

Maybe once they have made support fun enough that its pick rate is higher they will remove autofill and switch back to everyone playing what they want all the time. I'd like that as much as the next person.

This shouldn't be any different, and while many times players do handle it poorly, I'd be lying if I said I always handled it well when I get autofilled(I usually just dodge) it's obviously something that can be very infuriating to someone who just wants to play their main role they're best at and have the best chance of climbing through elo hell.

Fun fact, queue-dodging doesn't prevent autofill. It just pushes it a little further into the future. If you're due to auto-fill and you put it off for long enough the system will auto-fill you nearly every game until you stop dodging and play it.

Beas7ieJul 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You're talking about team sports where the team has played together many times. In Ranked 5s this is how it works. People are not switched off of their roles. But in solo-queue there is no guarantee you will find someone of the correct role to fill the empty slot on the team. This season Riot chose to use autofill to deal with this, as it only affects each player every once in a while, and they can speed up queue times considerably.

That's how a lot of "pick up games" in those team sports are played too even if the players just met. Ever since I was a kid just messing around with friends, checking local organizations, or even going to places at the Y, people have mostly been able to play their preferred positions. Riot shouldn't get to compare their game to real life sports and then suddenly flip flop and get to be the "special snowflake" on this. There was also talk of a veto option which a player gets one position to select to NEVER EVER EVER EVER get filled into, but Riot took this out as during testing 70% of people vetoed support.

A problem like this is bigger than autofill as in this case the big picture is that there's one position that a majority of the community doesn't want to play, doesn't find fun, isn't as good at, whatever, but Riot keeps trying to force it down our throats.

{quoted}

Fun fact, queue-dodging doesn't prevent autofill. It just pushes it a little further into the future. If you're due to auto-fill and you put it off for long enough the system will auto-fill you nearly every game until you stop dodging and play it.

Yeah, I know how that's set up. Once someone fills they get protection for 2 games(this includes remakes) and then a lower chance of getting filled immediately after. That chance increases each game but the final chances depends on "who filled last" so if you avoided the fill for 10 games, dodge, and then get matched with someone who hasn't filled in 15 games, then they're more likely to get filled. There are other factors too like maybe someone put their first preference down as a role you would normally get filled or you get filled but a teammate trades.

Of course it can also be pretty wonkey as I have had people claim that TWO people on the team have been autofilled into the preferred positions of the other. I can't verify the claims as I just read those from other threads on this forum about the great debate with autofill.

HalcyonDwellerJul 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's how a lot of "pick up games" in those team sports are played too even if the players just met. Ever since I was a kid just messing around with friends, checking local organizations, or even going to places at the Y, people have mostly been able to play their preferred positions. Riot shouldn't get to compare their game to real life sports and then suddenly flip flop and get to be the "special snowflake" on this. There was also talk of a veto option which a player gets one position to select to NEVER EVER EVER EVER get filled into, but Riot took this out as during testing 70% of people vetoed support.

I don't know which sports you've been playing but I have not had the same experience. For pickup games I see plenty of people fill off-roles if needed so that we can all play the game.

A problem like this is bigger than autofill as in this case the big picture is that there's one position that a majority of the community doesn't want to play, doesn't find fun, isn't as good at, whatever, but Riot keeps trying to force it down our throats.

The issue isn't having to play it every once in a while, the issue is with the players that act like little shits when it is their turn to auto-fill. The existing system is a huge improvement to the uncertainty we had before we could select roles before queueing up.

Players would pull pick order over one another and toxicity was much higher and more frequent. During all this, we simply attributed our lack of getting the roles we wanted to other people being shitty and that was that. Now that Riot has fixed that but imposed auto-fill, it's suddenly such a problem that Riot is being authoritative and forcing us to do it every once in a while... when in reality you actually get what you want a lot more because the toxic shits who would steal your role are simply given a different team most of the time and there are less role conflicts. Draft pick is better for auto-fill, even if we have to do something we don't want to some of the time.

Beas7ieJul 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't know which sports you've been playing but I have not had the same experience. For pickup games I see plenty of people fill off-roles if needed so that we can all play the game.

The issue isn't having to play it every once in a while, the issue is with the players that act like little shits when it is their turn to auto-fill. The existing system is a huge improvement to the uncertainty we had before we could select roles before queueing up.

Players would pull pick order over one another and toxicity was much higher and more frequent. During all this, we simply attributed our lack of getting the roles we wanted to other people being shitty and that was that. Now that Riot has fixed that but imposed auto-fill, it's suddenly such a problem that Riot is being authoritative and forcing us to do it every once in a while... when in reality you actually get what you want a lot more because the toxic shits who would steal your role are simply given a different team most of the time and there are less role conflicts. Draft pick is better for auto-fill, even if we have to do something we don't want to some of the time.

I don't know what games you've been playing but in most pick up sports I play, people usually play their preferred roles. There may be one or two guys that will fill as needed(usually the ones that don't play that much to begin with) but for the most part, people mainly get the roles they want and are best at.

I know how horrible the old system, I also know that there the much needed Teambuilder. Yes games took longer to queue, but it gave EVERYONE the chance to play the roles they wanted and not get forced into a position they didn't want.

Now we need the option to turn autofill off. If Rito really wants more people to play one of the less popular roles like support, then they should look into offering incentives to play able and willing to play those roles. Give the people who leave autofill on and play an a game they get autofilled into extra IP, better chances at getting key fragments and chests, or some other incentive. They do that, and they'll have no problem getting people into those roles. That route would be much more successfull than trying to force it on everyone.

HalcyonDwellerJul 14, 20177 votes

I wouldn't mind longer queues too, but that's not how it works right now.

I understand people not wanting to do it either, but they ought to have the common decency to ask their teammates for a switch. Flat out roll-stealing or hostage taking of select to force others to dodge is unacceptable no matter what the reason. It is avoiding responsibility and forcing others to take the fall for the stealer/troll.

SiredorJul 16, 20171 votes

So if you are autofilled force your mate to dodge locking trollpick is fun?

There are people that brags about it

HalcyonDwellerJul 17, 20171 votes

I don't see why they would brag, there is nothing skillful or impressive about it. Just someone being a really crappy person by ruining things for their teammates.

VectrosJul 15, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That's not the fault of auto-fill. Don't shift the focus around.

This is about people being selfish trash who are willing to ruin the game for others if it means they won't have to do what they don't want to.

It's not that bad to get auto-filled, literally like once in 10-20 games. If someone is truly unable to do a role, they should ask for a swap. Most people are understanding or accommodating.

Role-stealing and going disco-nunu is such a douchebag move. People who do this are such shit-stains. And it is the most infuriating BS ever when you get one of them on your team and they force YOU to dodge and wait a queue timer instead of them.

Auto fill may not be forcing them to act toxic-at the end of the day, it comes down to the individual-but it does act as a catalyst.

HalcyonDwellerJul 16, 20171 votes

You're right, but it's still the responsibility of the individual to not be a shitty person to everyone else.

VectrosJul 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You're right, but it's still the responsibility of the individual to not be a shitty person to everyone else.

Yeah, I said that in my post >_>

Beas7ieJul 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

That's not the fault of auto-fill. Don't shift the focus around.

This is about people being selfish trash who are willing to ruin the game for others if it means they won't have to do what they don't want to.

It's not that bad to get auto-filled, literally like once in 10-20 games. If someone is truly unable to do a role, they should ask for a swap. Most people are understanding or accommodating.

Role-stealing and going disco-nunu is such a douchebag move. People who do this are such shit-stains. And it is the most infuriating BS ever when you get one of them on your team and they force YOU to dodge and wait a queue timer instead of them.

It's a combination. Autofill may not be COMPLETELY the blame but it does play a role. Rito can do everything they can to try and reduce toxicity but the fact of the matter is you teams of 5 competing against each other where each player is playing a drastically different role and where it takes only one noob on the team to ruin the chances of winning when everything else is going well, it causes the potential of a completely toxic environment. It doesn't help that Riot keeps on trying to force in a fairly unpopular role like support on people that have no desire or motive to play that position. They don't even have a "veto" option where you can select one role for autofill to absolutely NOT put you in under ANY circumstance.

HalcyonDwellerJul 16, 20171 votes

The system is what it is, it's not changing until at least the end of the season. That much is clear.

It is still the responsibility of players who get auto-filled to not be shitstains about it. We all get autofilled. For many of the times that you got the role you wanted, somebody else who wanted it got autofilled. Others pay the price of autofill so that you can play what you want 95% of the time. It's fair to expect you to reciprocate the other 5% of the time.

Beas7ieJul 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The system is what it is, it's not changing until at least the end of the season. That much is clear.

It is still the responsibility of players who get auto-filled to not be shitstains about it. We all get autofilled. For many of the times that you got the role you wanted, somebody else who wanted it got autofilled. Others pay the price of autofill so that you can play what you want 95% of the time. It's fair to expect you to reciprocate the other 5% of the time.

Yeah, I've played my preferred role and had teammates and/or enemies who've been autofilled. Sometimes they handled it no problem(usually they play that role a lot anyways so it wasn't a big deal) but usually they just did poorly. It's great that someone is willing to "take one for the team" and play a role they aren't good at or even like, but in the end we all still get screwed over. Because there's a good chance that teammate will have to go up against an opponent who MAINS that role. Regardless of whether or not I'm the one that autofill decides to target that game, I still don't want my teammate who only plays that role when autofilled and most likely has a very limited champ selection for that role to go up against that opponent who plays it all the time.

And at worst we have the negativity and hostility and champ select in the game. While very rare, I have seen a time when someone got so pissed about being autofilled that he just ran down all the lanes inting while typing in /all "FUCK YOU AUTOFILL!"

Yes, he handled that very poorly, but at the same time I kind of feel for him. The MAIN PURPOSE of this dynamic queue is to set up teams where everyone gets the role they want and avoid the crapshoot of blind pick or "pick order above call". Having a system set up that goes "Hmmm, I see you selected top and jungle as the roles you want to play, well I'm going to dump you in mid because screw you" completely defeats that.

HalcyonDwellerJul 17, 20171 votes

I mean, I feel you there. But I think you aren't seeing the point of the system.

Personally I prefer being able to be guaranteed my intended roles 95% of the time and getting to choose when that one time in 20 is that I have to play support or fill. I like not having to argue over roles, or stress out about the uncertainty of playing my off-roles all the time because I have lag and can't keep up with call-order most of the time.

People can avoid getting autofilled entirely if they just choose to play as support or fill once in a while. Over the past several months I've only been autofilled maybe 2 or 3 times, this is because most of the time I queue for support and fill of my own accord every once in a while, long before the system marks me for getting randomly forced into it.

LaughingStaplerJul 14, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0muY5woX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-14T21:22:05.874+0000)

Isn't autofill great?

Remove flex que and we wouldn't need autofill till Diamond.

I suck at JhinJul 15, 20172 votes

After being autofilled, next time you queue have autofill protection, stfu.

PinkajJul 16, 20171 votes

I...don't think that's how it works. I'm pretty sure you have to choose the Support or Autofill role to get autofill

Siegfriedx1Jul 15, 20173 votes

You babies keep using auto fill as an excuse. I used to play this game when the only option available was auto fill. There was no option that was not autofill and you had to know at least 2 camps per role to go beyond d3.

This role argument around autofill is a new season/generation problem that exist only in people's minds. We just need a report button after you dodge something. If the person is guilt we get the pdl back, easy like that.

RacoonHunterJul 15, 20173 votes

It's not just auto fill.. it's the fact that riots system punishes YOU because of THEIR actions. I've had to dodge a few ranked games in recent weeks, causing me to be locked out for 5-15 minutes because someone was super toxic and locked in something like Teemo support with ignite/cleanse.

Riot needs to allow you as a player 1-2 dodges before you get locked out of queuing. it's kinda rediculous that you're basically trapped because of these trolls.. even more rediculous that riot doesn't quickly punish these players. Hell, I reported a toxic player recently, and got the message that he was dealt with 2 hours and 4 games later... Instant feedback my ass..

GIVE ME THE HELLJul 15, 20172 votes

That would cause people to dodge even there isnt even "real" problem. And that would cause even more waste of time.

But would like to see possibility of voting dodge with 4 votes, if there happens to be troll, and nobody but the reason should get punishment. This would of course cause some problems also, but those could maybe be solved somehow also.

Beas7ieJul 16, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=GIVE ME THE HELL,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=0muY5woX,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-07-15T19:52:33.037+0000)

That would cause people to dodge even there isnt even "real" problem. And that would cause even more waste of time.

But would like to see possibility of voting dodge with 4 votes, if there happens to be troll, and nobody but the reason should get punishment. This would of course cause some problems also, but those could maybe be solved somehow also.

I think that if Riot has a system where everyone gets one and ONLY ONE free dodge per day, it wouldn't be that bad. You get ONE free dodge with no lp loss, no queue lockout, nothing. You can go back and requeue. But you get one and ONLY ONE per day. So if you use it on ARAM because you didn't like your random champ you got, then you can't use it later on in ranked if things start to go crap. So use it wisely.

With something like this, it will help people avoid a LOT of horrible games and situations where things get so bad in champ select that at times everyone gets the trolliest selection they can think of and it becomes a game of chicken of who's going to dodge first and eat the penalty.

At the same time, people only have the one so there still shouldn't be too much dodging just because someone feels like the team doesn't have that super perfect matchup.

SanKakUJul 15, 20171 votes

Um, Cleanse and Ghost is legit for Veigar, are you sure they aren't trolling? As long as they buy an income item, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt.

GIVE ME THE HELLJul 16, 20171 votes

Evelynn doesnt do anything outside jungle
Evelynn has absolutely nothing to peel for adc
Cleanse and ghost are pretty much worst support spells

My conclusion: Troll 100%

SanKakUJul 16, 20171 votes

Well, if it were me, I'd guess the same. I actually own Evelynn because I thought I might like her but now I'm thinking maybe I should've got Fiora instead. At any rate, I'd be less suspicious of the 'support' if they were at least running barrier or exhaust or heal. I haven't tried her as 'support' personally, but I can't imagine you'd find any success with anything but Relic Shield because you have to at least help your lane partner. Maybe pick up a Black Cleaver as soon as you can so you can make use of the attack speed steroid she has in her kit which will increase your marksman's damage output. I'm pretty much just thinking if you played her like you'd play any tank(yeah I know she's not a tank, but I believe assassins are better off grabbing the 'tank' income item rather than starting corrupting potion or Doran's whatever), you might be able to make it work out. But for a ranked game? Seems like it's way too risky. I wouldn't dare try it myself. Why not just pick Blitzcrank since he's a commonly accepted tank for the support position?

GubaguyJul 15, 20171 votes

Honestly the simplest solution to autofilling is to jsut reward players who take highly unwanted positions, like at end of game if a player was filled, or willingly took a role no one wanted they get a key fragment and an honor form the game.

zPOOPzJul 16, 20171 votes

There already is a reward....support and autofill-er get auto-fill protection for the next game...not to mention they get the shortest queue time of any role

GubaguyJul 16, 20171 votes

Only fill protected -IF- no one dodges, and is it worth is to be forced into a role you dont want, possibly making you NOT want to play anymore?

zPOOPzJul 16, 20171 votes

But if someone queue up to play support or autofill, s/he plays it willingly. The reward for that is they are guaranteed their 1st and 2nd choice whenever they want as well as low queue time.

If someone get autofilled out of their 1st and 2nd choice, his reward is auto-protect for the next game. If you want to take two of the more popular roles (top/mid/jg/adc), that is the price to pay.

Blind was the ONLY option not too long ago. A single autofilled every once in a while is not THAT bad. If you don't like it, take the dodge. A single leavebuster is not that big a deal.

Ra1ugaJul 18, 20171 votes

I don't want to get filled support vs any person who actually knows what to do in that role.

The way i play this game just doesnt fit into how a support should play- I have no clue how to maintain vision control as support, what to do as support, and how to not end up underleveled/ get caught. Just saying "group with the team" doesnt really help me because i could be out trying to get vision or something.

PartihardAug 15, 20171 votes

No one forces people to dodge you should be prepared to play support when autofill is activated. Everyone has to contribute in this game for it. Personally I am pissed off that League doesn't punish people enough for dodging. I have to sit through countless remakes just cause of that behavior. Its gotten so bad apparently dodging has become part of strategy for many people since the punishment is so lacking. And for people that ever dodge game that get auto-filled should be rewarded a little more for this.

Instead of complaining moaning and bitching at threads on things like this to help community that RIot does for lower Q times, why not pick a support and play few normals and learn the champ.