Stop blaming trolls on your inablity to climb.......

Anomander··9 votes·825 views

It is simple statistics. If your not a troll your team is less likely to have a troll as there are only 4 spots open. This means that statistically you should come out ahead in the long run which means that YOU WILL CLIMB to where you belong EVENTUALLY. This is simple math and cannot be disputed. Now it might take a huge amount of games and might be disheartening.

HOWEVER trolls are a excuse when you lack the skill to climb. The only person who is to blame for your end ranking is yourself. I do understand that not everyone can play the 100's of games in order to actually rise to where you belong. And I accept that, but this doesn't mean it was because of trolls. This is because you prolly have a life outside of League. And if so THAT IS A GOOD THING.

If you cannot climb if you are stuck in whatever league your in after 100's of games this is where you belong. This doesn't mean that over time you won't become better. This just means at your current skill level (mechanically/knowledge) you belong in that tier.

There are people who do to lack of time belong in a higher tier. There are those who duo and your COMBINED skill level might be lower the your own.(if your carrying a friend) However trolls are not the reason your stuck in whatever tier your in. Doesn't matter if your B5 or D1 you will eventually get placed where you belong if you play enough games.

33 Comments

Zmuecat4 votes

But the matchmaking system sucks!

Haha, I love everyone saying that, even people who were platinum and can't climb now. I can just throw 'if you were actually good, you'd climb' right back in their general faces.

2000boxes2 votes

so there are 4 slots left out of 5 thats 80% of the slots leftover that means you have an 80% chance of getting a troll on your team

Anomander2 votes

That's not the way it works. You are 20%less likely to have a troll on your team.

Arcade Andrew1 votes

{quoted}

That's not the way it works. You are 20%less likely to have a troll on your team.

still an 80% chance that there will be a troll feeder or afk, also the math changes when youa dd in the different types of reasons you lose to other players (toxic/feed/just plain bad/got countered/cant farm/troll/afk/intentional feed/intentional feed then leave/internet issue/internet issue mid game/start of great then fall off and feed AND MANY MORE)

Nucleophilic atk3 votes

While I don't agree with OP, that math makes no sense at all. How is there an 80% chance that you get a feeder lol?

Major Sparkles2 votes

Yeah that math is wrong.

Raise Dongrs1 votes

No, assuming that it's an 80% chance to get 1 troll in a group of 4 people, that would mean one in every 4 people that play are troll feeders. Meaning every game has 1-2 trolls per team, which is clearly not the case. So shove your stupid ELO Hell logic up your ass, son. Git Gud

Arcade Andrew1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raise Dongrs,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=rKan7awl,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2015-02-05T19:41:24.474+0000)

No, assuming that it's an 80% chance to get 1 troll in a group of 4 people, that would mean one in every 4 people that play are troll feeders. Meaning every game has 1-2 trolls per team, which is clearly not the case. So shove your stupid ELO Hell logic up your ass, son. Git Gud

Im not in bronze V 0 lp so Im not in elo hell, elo hell is literally ten losses at 0lp bronze V other than that? people just suck, alls im saying is there isnt just one type of feeder or troll that players lose too, so combining all the types of players that cause a loss the math evens it out but idc i just won a 4v5 B)

Raise Dongrs1 votes

I mean congratz man, but that doesn't change the fact that your team has a 10% advantage of not having a troll

Arcade Andrew1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raise Dongrs,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=rKan7awl,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-02-06T13:04:10.489+0000)

I mean congratz man, but that doesn't change the fact that your team has a 10% advantage of not having a troll

right after the 4v5 I had an intentional feeder, YAY even if i won the 4v5 i still had two trolls/afks/ect in a row

Raise Dongrs1 votes

You misunderstand the point; it's not about the possibility of having a troll/feeder in your game. It's about the odds of having one on your team specifically compared to the enemy. I'm not arguing that trolls don't exist, I'm just saying the potential for the enemy to have it is 10% higher, meaning typically they have more trolls than you do

Aerothal2 votes

i don't believe any statistics i haven't faked myself!

Anomander2 votes

lol it is basic math

Raise Dongrs1 votes

100% - 20% = 80%. Make sense? That means 80% of your team has the probability of people potentially being trolls. The enemy team doesn't have that benefit, meaning if there is a troll in the game, the probability that it is on your team is 40% (as the 10% is you positively not being a troll) whereas you don't know the enemy is not a troll, meaning the probability that the troll will be on their team is 50%. THIS ISN'T HARD, CHILDREN. THINK STATISTICS, NOT "Poor me getting paired with trolls." WE ARE TALKING ABOUT LOGIC, NOT BRONZE TEARS

Raise Dongrs2 votes

All these salty babies who "don't belong in bronze"

Nucleophilic atk1 votes

False.

Anomander3 votes

[{quoted}](name=SN2 Surpriser,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=rKan7awl,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-02-05T05:19:06.645+0000)

False.

So informative and succinct. You really have a way with words. I am so impressed with your ability to make a argument. I mean wow I never knew...... Oh wait a second......

Nucleophilic atk1 votes

Ok. Please explain how I was silver 5 for just about the entire season 4, only to jump up all he way into gold in less than a month. Do you honestly believe that my skill gained an entire tier in under a month? No. I got lucky and got a majority of people that knew what they were doing. It is honestly about luck unless you are some diamond smurf lol. Before the duo rule changes I would duo with my Plat 1/Diamond 5 friend and we would win about 80% of the games. Now I know that I am obviously not that level of play, but I surely held my own with my mid Fid :). Won a good portion of lanes. Obviously my game knowledge isn't high enough to consistently compete at the level, but surely higher than the silver 5 trolls like you would tell me I belonged.

I'm just not sure how you expect 1 person to determine the outcome of a team game when there are 9 other players.

Anomander2 votes

If you notice in my post I said it would take Hundreds of game to reach the tier where you belong? This is to eliminate things like luck. In a small sample size luck can have a large determining factor. The larger the sampling size the less and less it affects the actual outcome by reducing the variable and leaving you with the constants(you). This is simple statistics. The only CONSTANT in your game is you. This means that over a large enough sampling size the only thing that will truly affect the outcome is you.

If you do not understand that I guess you might want to go take a few classes on statistics.

Nucleophilic atk1 votes

So when are you going to address my comment?

On a side note, you wouldn't be making the comments you have made if you had taken any statistics beyond the first course lol.

Anomander2 votes

I did address it. "The only CONSTANT in your game is you. This means that over a large enough sampling size the only thing that will truly affect the outcome is you."

Nucleophilic atk1 votes

You did not. You did not comment on my climb in under a month lol.

Also, what are you basing your statistics on? What power study was done to determine that you could have a large sample size? What statistical test would you use to offset the confounders, and there are PLENTY of those. I mean, that is the reason in which I believe you're false. Come on, you want to talk statistics, let's talk statistics!

Bottom line: please do not make a statement like, "If you do not understand that*,* I guess you might want to go take a few classes on statistics." if you have absolutely no statistics backing your argument or any statistical knowledge.

Anomander2 votes

You really didn't bother reading it did you. "If you notice in my post I said it would take Hundreds of game to reach the tier where you belong? This is to eliminate things like luck."

As far as removing the variables. That is why you need to play enough games where their interaction become a mute point. It is a very simplistic bit of math needed to realize that over enough games trolls and other variables don't matter and it comes down to the 1 constant in the game You.

Just because you don't want to admit you are probably where you belong and want to reject reality doesn't mean that math lies. My statements are backed up by basic math and there is no need to create a study. You are less likely to have a troll on your team then the enemy team. This is not up for debate this is fact. You are 4/5 they are 5/5 which means you are 20% less likely to have a troll on your team.

Since you are 20% less likely to have a troll on your team you should be more likely to win. Which means that over enough games you will climb. Now if you can't rise with a higher chance to win it means you have reached the limit of your skill. This is a very simple thing to understand. The same applies to losing. If your falling despite having a 20% less likely chance to have a troll you are placed ABOVE your skill level and will eventually fall to where you belong.

Over enough games this will average out and you will be placed where you belong.

This post is about people who use trolls as a excuse. The bottom line is your rank is determined by yourself not by trolls. I even put in how some cannot play enough games to eliminate the variables. And how duoing can negatively affect your ranking if you only duo.

Using 1 example of how you climbed to gold in under a month is not relevant because it is lacking a large enough sampling size to be accurate. This is about as informative and saying I know a guy who died in a plane crash. Does it happen? yes. Does it happen often? yes. Is flying still the safest way to travel? Yes.

Nucleophilic atk1 votes

You really didn't bother reading it did you. "If you notice in my post I said it would take Hundreds of game to reach the tier where you belong? This is to eliminate things like luck."

My question is what power calculations are you using to determine this? Surely since you want to mention statistics, you have thought about this.

As far as removing the variables. That is why you need to play enough games where their interaction become a mute point. It is a very simplistic bit of math needed to realize that over enough games trolls and other variables don't matter and it comes down to the 1 constant in the game You.

Again, based on what? Not to mention that one's play isn't even constant.

Just because you don't want to admit you are probably where you belong and want to reject reality doesn't mean that math lies. My statements are backed up by basic math and there is no need to create a study. You are less likely to have a troll on your team then the enemy team. This is not up for debate this is fact. You are 4/5 they are 5/5 which means you are 20% less likely to have a troll on your team.

Your math is wrong. Say 1000 people play league, 5 of which are trolls. You would have a 2% chance of getting a trolling teammate. The enemy team would then have a 2.5% chance. I don't know, I see a 0.5% difference. Who knows what the actual ratios are, but simple concept.

Not too mention this just brings up that the enemy has a higher chance of getting a diamond smurf.

Since you are 20% less likely to have a troll on your team you should be more likely to win. Which means that over enough games you will climb. Now if you can't rise with a higher chance to win it means you have reached the limit of your skill. This is a very simple thing to understand. The same applies to losing. If your falling despite having a 20% less likely chance to have a troll you are placed ABOVE your skill level and will eventually fall to where you belong.

Say said troll made you lose 100% of the time and you played what 600 games? That would mean that you would lose about 12 compared to about 15. 3 game difference out of 600 games. That is enough to make you climb lol?

Over enough games this will average out and you will be placed where you belong.

Again, no basis at all.

This post is about people who use trolls as a excuse. The bottom line is your rank is determined by yourself not by trolls. I even put in how some cannot play enough games to eliminate the variables. And how duoing can negatively affect your ranking if you only duo.

You rank is determined by 10 people every game, not by one.

Using 1 example of how you climbed to gold in under a month is not relevant because it is lacking a large enough sampling size to be accurate. This is about as informative and saying I know a guy who died in a plane crash. Does it happen? yes. Does it happen often? yes. Is flying still the safest way to travel? Yes.

Anomander3 votes

[{quoted}](name=SN2 Surpriser,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=rKan7awl,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-05T17:56:40.140+0000)

Your math is wrong. Say 1000 people play league, 5 of which are trolls. You would have a 2% chance of getting a trolling teammate. The enemy team would then have a 2.5% chance. I don't know, I see a 0.5% difference. Who knows what the actual ratios are, but simple concept

20% is 20% doesn't matter what the likelihood of getting a troll in a game is. You are 20% less likely to have one on your team.

Not too mention this just brings up that the enemy has a higher chance of getting a diamond smurf.

This really doesn't matter at all as it would be such a small variable it would be eliminated in even a small sample pool of 100+ games

Say said troll made you lose 100% of the time and you played what 600 games? That would mean that you would lose about 12 compared to about 15. 3 game difference out of 600 games. That is enough to make you climb lol?

Yes this would make you climb.... it might be slow but eventually you would climb.

Again, no basis at all.

Really??? This is a elo system used for games like chess for a very long time and has been proven time and time again. If you can't understand that you really don't know anything about mmr.

You rank is determined by 10 people every game, not by one.

The other 9 people are variables. That is why you need a large sampling size. Once again the only constant is YOU.

I will not be responding to you in this thread again as you have proven you are biased towards your own opinions and do not care about facts. If you cannot understand this simple concept I will not waste my time explaining further.

D0nC1 votes

You must have gotten your math from Lyte, the mathematician who also happens to have a PhD in philosophy.

As far as using the glass half full or half empty to somehow make sense out of your thread, bra-vo.

Anomander3 votes

The math is sound. Did I try to keep it very simplistic yes. Why? because most people can't seem to add 2+2. So I decided to keep it simple. The key to the outcome is playing enough games to eliminate the variable of trolls. This might take 100's maybe even 1000+ games.

This in no way gives any vindication to trolls. Trolls should be banned if they are ruining other peoples games. However if you can't climb after hundreds of games or if you drop after hundreds of games you are where you belong tier wise.

This is not about glass half full or half empty. Without knowing more information I can't tell you if it is half empty or full.

If you just poured into the glass it would be half full. If you just took from the glass it is half empty. I am a realist. I believe in fact.

Major Sparkles1 votes

At first I agreed with the OP but the more of his comments I read the more I wanted to disassociate myself with em.

D0nC1 votes

[deleted]

Raise Dongrs1 votes

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how his logic is flawed. If you yourself are not a troll in-game, that confirms that you alone (a.k.a. 20% of your team) are not a troll. Assuming there has to be at least one troll in the game, let's cut this down to size. You not being a troll cuts off all possibility of the whole team being trolls. That means 20% of the team is not trolls for sure. However, everyone else in the game is anonymous, you don't have information on them to assume that they are trolls or not. They could be, they could not be. That's just pure luck. HOWEVER, remembering back to how you yourself are not a troll, that means if there has to be one troll in the game, the statistics are

You: 10% (Definitely Not a Troll)

Your Team: 40% (Could be a troll)

Enemy Team: 50% (Could be troll)

This basically means that the chances for them having a troll is 10% more likely than you. That is unarguable. Maybe you get the troll, but that's just bad luck. Point out how this is wrong, if I can't completely shatter your argument then you're absolutely correct about this math being wrong

Also you verbally harassed someone by calling them a derogatory name and expected to not get reported?? Smart plan, dude

Byakuya Kuchiki1 votes

if youre gold level and youre silver level then you are gonna have a tough time getting their because the amount of betterness you are isnt enough to make a huge impact everyone thats good admits that thats true

Gunpoint1 votes

Yeah, this is great, why did you make this thread though?

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