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The amount of neurosis in League is ridiculous

Janderts··4 votes·1,358 views

I'd never seen such a tangled mess of passive-aggression, anger, cruelty, negativity, sarcasm, and utter disrespect for other people until I encountered the LOL community. Honestly, I don't get all the projecting and snide remarks people make about each other. It's absolutely ridiculous that people behave the way they do, on these forums, and in game. I feel sorry for Riot as a company and would be ashamed to have such a mean spirited fan base. I honestly don't know how they continue to produce content for such ungrateful people, but I hope the bad majority of this community clears out or at least learns to respect one another for the sake of the few who really care about others and aren't out to put everyone down for their daily ego boost. This post was really just to rant, so feel free to share your thoughts or, if you'd like to lighten the mood, share some positive experiences with the community.

28 Comments

disregardable3 votes

You say you feel sorry for Riot, but the reality is that they are the ones that created this experience. The game is designed so that the only satisfaction in the game can be sabotaged by your teammates. It's pretty fair for it to be that way, every team sport I can think of is- however, unlike in real life when you play soccer, your body doesn't release feel-good endorphins just for trying to run fast.

Until Riot actually does something to make this game satisfying that the rest of your team can't interfere with, this game will always have high hostility.

Janderts1 votes

I agree with you about the way the game is designed and no, I don't really expect anything other than a competitive environment. What I'm trying to say, though, is that there is no need for so much anger and bitterness in competition. No one seems to be a good sport anymore and it just makes me sad to see. I don't expect any big changes to the game or community from what I say, I just wish people were a little bit more civil to each other.

Raptamei1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=oYto4Oj7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-14T09:41:03.081+0000)

Until Riot actually does something to make this game satisfying that the rest of your team can't interfere with, this game will always have high hostility.

Not possible in a team game unless you can easily 1v5 as in CS.

OhOkYea3 votes

Riot doesn't care and in fact supports these disgusting people. You can't even call them out on the forums by their IGN because riot wants to protect them. Riot literally wants these people to keep playing.

Janderts2 votes

Well, in fairness, I believe their identity should be under the same protections as all of ours, but I believe there should be more strict punishments for that behavior, although, that's purely idealistic thinking, because there is no perfect way and in fact, no way to completely prevent toxicity and overly aggresive players in any game, let alone one as large as league. Thanks for the insight

OhOkYea2 votes

{quoted}

Well, in fairness, I believe their identity should be under the same protections as all of ours, but I believe there should be more strict punishments for that behavior, although, that's purely idealistic thinking, because there is no perfect way and in fact, no way to completely prevent toxicity and overly aggresive players in any game, let alone one as large as league. Thanks for the insight

Well there's no way to stop it completely, but there's an extremely effective way to help deal with it and convince people not to do it in the future. Permabans

For the way people act in LoL, they would be permabanned in almost every other online game. You treat other people like that? You no longer get to sign on. You want to play? You get to level another account to 30 and regrind all the IP.

The fact that people continue to act this way without fear of reprimand, and that I will get grouped with the same toxic people that I've reported before... means that riot does not care.

Janderts1 votes

Yeah, I agree with you here. I believe that would be an effective strategy in eliminating some of the problem, but I only made this post to get it off my chest and not propose ideas for change, because I have none of my own. I think this in particular would be a worthwhile change, as long as it were investigated properly so as to prevent wrongly accused bans.

Jubbinaut1 votes

That's been shown to be less than effective at removing toxicity from the community. Instead, it shifts it from upper levels to lower levels - shoving it onto the newest players, and making an already very rough on-boarding process that much worse.

Which is extremely bad for longevity.

OhOkYea2 votes

{quoted}

That's been shown to be less than effective at removing toxicity from the community. Instead, it shifts it from upper levels to lower levels - shoving it onto the newest players, and making an already very rough on-boarding process that much worse.

Which is extremely bad for longevity.

Right. Allowing people to enjoy the game by eliminating disgusting scum is a worse business model in this world than allowing disgusting scum to ruin the game for people.

Jubbinaut1 votes

That would be effective - if they were actually staying away. Often, they are not staying away.

Instead, they're creating new accounts, and doing the same disgusting crap all over again - only now, at lower levels, with brand new players, who get the impression that the whole community is like that. Which, as I said, makes an already difficult on-boarding process much harder for those new players.

It's not really removing the toxicity; it's just tossing it somewhere else. It's like if, to clean up all our old landfills, we just moved the trash - into nursing homes and day-care facilities. We haven't really cleaned anything, we've just dumped it onto the most vulnerable parts of our community.

OhOkYea1 votes

{quoted}

That would be effective - if they were actually staying away. Often, they are not staying away.

Instead, they're creating new accounts, and doing the same disgusting crap all over again - only now, at lower levels, with brand new players, who get the impression that the whole community is like that. Which, as I said, makes an already difficult on-boarding process much harder for those new players.

It's not really removing the toxicity; it's just tossing it somewhere else. It's like if, to clean up all our old landfills, we just moved the trash - into nursing homes and day-care facilities. We haven't really cleaned anything, we've just dumped it onto the most vulnerable parts of our community.

You must not remember how long it takes to get back up to 30 and regrind all the IP for runes/champs. I will certainly never do it again. I know some people will, but most of them would be more likely to just leave the game when they realize they've got a long way to go before they can troll a ranked game again.

It would mainly serve to prevent already existing account owners from exhibiting such disgusting behavior knowing that all the time they put into their account would be completely lost with a perma ban.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

They don't have to troll a ranked game to feel good about themselves. They get to pubstomp their way through the lower levels every time they have to make a new account, and on some level that's enough for their egos to keep them coming back again and again.

OhOkYea2 votes

{quoted}

They don't have to troll a ranked game to feel good about themselves. They get to pubstomp their way through the lower levels every time they have to make a new account, and on some level that's enough for their egos to keep them coming back again and again.

Yes but they will learn some self control when they realize they will just get perma banned again.

GaleWinUnleashed1 votes

That's balanced against the satisfaction they're also getting from "cheating the system", though.

OhOkYea1 votes

{quoted}

That's balanced against the satisfaction they're also getting from "cheating the system", though.

If they have the patience in them to keep re-leveling accounts to 30 and regrinding IP... then fuck it. That requires some dedication and therefore let em keep doing it.

GaleWinUnleashed2 votes

Odds are if they're that toxic they're probably not even making it to 30 before being banned again.

OhOkYea1 votes

{quoted}

Odds are if they're that toxic they're probably not even making it to 30 before being banned again.

Sweet

Jubbinaut1 votes

I'm sorry, I may not have been clear.

I'm not referring to my own beliefs on the matter. I'm stating what Lyte has explicitly said is the reason they want to avoid permabans. I feel it's a safe assumption - given the data he has available to him - that if he says "hey, this is a concern that we've seen pop up," then it's something they've actually seen.

And yes, some - even many - permabanned players do leave, and don't come back. But many (arguably most) don't. Further, that wouldn't even make that much of an impact on overall witnessed toxicity - after all, some ~78% of visible toxicity comes from good players, who aren't generally toxic, and would never earn a permaban.

Janderts1 votes

I see validity in both claims here. This problem in particular strikes me as a case of profit vs customer satisfaction because if riot were to institute permabans, the trolls who got their accounts banned would simply make a new account and begin messing with new players who are easier targets and require no grinding to get to. This would make less people stick with league after trying it out and less new players= Less purchases of rp etc etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but, is that your point Jubbinaut? On the other end we have the player who wants to protect the long term invested players and permabans certainly would help with toxicity at the higher end of play and allow people to enjoy ranked games without as much fear of trolls since they wouldn't bother to grind back to their old rank. Correct me if I'm wrong but, is that your point OhOkYeah? There are positives and negatives in both views, but there must be some sort of compromise that could get the best of both worlds? Seems like a very gray area issue with lots of black and white solutions, but that's just how I'm seeing it.

Jubbinaut2 votes

{quoted}

I see validity in both claims here. This problem in particular strikes me as a case of profit vs customer satisfaction because if riot were to institute permabans, the trolls who got their accounts banned would simply make a new account and begin messing with new players who are easier targets and require no grinding to get to. This would make less people stick with league after trying it out and less new players= Less purchases of rp etc etc. Correct me if I'm wrong but, is that your point Jubbinaut?

Not exactly, but it's close.

Thing is, Riot does use perma-bans (here's a couple recent examples from 8/7/2014 and 8/15/2014, as well as this thread from a couple weeks ago - still not sure what his was for).

My point is that it's not a particularly effective solution. There's two major reasons for this:

  1. It wouldn't get rid of those players. Permabanned players often - 50% or more of the time - simply make new accounts (or already have them) and continue the same behaviors. There's a subculture of players who take pride in how many times they've been perma-banned. Shifting those players down to lower levels destroys the onboarding process for new players - the single most vulnerable group in relation to toxicity. That's not solving the problem - it's just moving it around.
  2. It wouldn't make a significant difference in visible toxicity anyway. According to Lyte's Play Nice talk at MIT, 78% of the community qualifies as "good," while only 1% of the community qualifies as "toxic," with the rest split between neutral and "bad" (borderline toxic, basically). Contrary to expectations, however, those "toxic" players are only responsible for about 5% of the witnessed toxicity in the game. Removing them doesn't make a major impact, because most (77%!) of the toxicity seen in-game comes from players who qualify as good. Which makes sense - because even nice guys can have off days, and there's many, many more of them.

Doing away with permabans would be foolish, just like tossing the hammer from a toolbox would be foolish. It's a tool, just like the others, and it has its uses. But it is not a be-all, end-all kind of tool. There's no such thing.

CaptainTatertits2 votes

Out of the last 10 games or so I've played in ranked, only 2 were positive experiences. and one of those, a loss. And the other, the other team was extremely toxic, but mostly kept it to themselves. They were doing well before that. At least my team kept focused.

Lately it is bad. Really, really, really bad. nearly every game someone is raging hardcore, going afk, feeding, or all of the above. In the last few days I've been called a faggot, jew, spic, sped, dumb nigger, autist, and countless others. When this stuff happens in a majority of games, it really makes me wonder how well the system is working.

Janderts2 votes

The last time I remember really enjoying playing league was when I randomly jumped into a custom game with a level 5 and level 10. They were both extremely polite and in every game we played, they always complimented everyone on their ability. I wish more people could be like those two. If it's any consolation, you're not alone in the frustration at least.

Angry Monster2 votes

This is called white knighting. Its is just as bad as toxic behavior. They are praising mediocre play just cause its nice. Both extremes are bad. Though in my mind those that compliment just cause its a nice thing to do are the worse of the 2, it promotes mediocrity

Janderts2 votes

While I understand your sentiment, this was not a case of empty compliments. They were praising team mates based on actual achievements, rather than a lack of or an attempt to. They were genuinely polite without being overbearing. Although, I have encountered the people you're referring to and I agree, since they prevent people from Reaching their potential and most certainly use deceit to harbor friendship.

IndianHippie2 votes

They need to come up with a way where even if u loose you lose LP according to your score

Raptamei1 votes

{quoted}

They need to come up with a way where even if u loose you lose LP according to your score

Champion mastery is based on your individual performance. I'm pretty sure they will expand it at some point to LP gains and losses.

Alljoy1 votes

Mute everyone and pretend it's a bot game.

Works like a charm.

Levyathyn1 votes

I think it's just NA.

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