What really happens when you perma ban "toxic players".

zaxxaa··6 votes·4,815 views

Have you thought this through riot?

When you perma ban a toxic players, you force him to make a new account and be matched with new players.

He will then flame the new players. The new players will then leave. And the number of active accounts will drop. When the number of active accounts drop, you get less money. And you dont like to get less money do you riot ? No you dont.

Either that, or they just plain quit, in which case, you dont get money either.

We can already tell by your priorities that you value money over everything else.

You refuse to fix the ranked system and punish afkers or elo boosters.

You refuse to balance the champions properly. When it can be easily done. Morde has had 70% win in games lasting under 25 minutes in almost 2 months now.

Instead, you choose to barely balance the game(or fix the ranked system) at all. You choose to cycle buff champion only to realease new skins for them so that people will pay you money. Then you rinse and repeat, every month. While the game balance gets more r%%%%%ed by the week.

So think about this riot, when you perma ban players, you get less money. This game is already dying fast enough as it is. You better rethink this course of action fast.

Looking aside from that fact, what makes you think you have any ethical right whatsoever, to destroy Years/Months of work, and money invested, from a persons life. How can you fuucking sit there and think you have the fuucking right ?

You are thieves, and if i ever meet one of you, i will treat you as such,i hope you very well understand what that means.

105 Comments

TDJ Vicarl8 votes

let me guess you got perma banned?

lofi n chillhop2 votes

it's actually something I've been thinking about for a while. banning someone just forces them to destroy the fun of some unsuspecting newbie.

DrCyanide1 votes

[{quoted}](name=jinxie pooksie,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=nwzbU53H,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-10-27T00:03:28.784+0000)

it's actually something I've been thinking about for a while. banning someone just forces them to destroy the fun of some unsuspecting newbie.

Sorry, what? It doesn't force them to do that, they are choosing to continue doing that. If they want to keep an account (and not have to try and level up new accounts over and over again) they'll change, otherwise they'll leave. Both changing and leaving are options Riot is OK with.

While I agree that the new player experience could use a lot of help, the idea that bans should be put on hold or ignored all together isn't going to fix it. Holding to the current plan of action, while it may make the new player experience worse short term, should actually improve the experience long term as less toxic players will be making new accounts.

As for the money, Riot looses more potential revenue because the game has a reputation for being toxic than anything else. There are players that will never create an account because of that reputation, and many players walk away after one too many games of being yelled at for doing their best. The loss of toxic individuals in the game now is their best course for making money.

lofi n chillhop1 votes

you're hungry, and could eat chinese or pizza. oh but chinese is banned. I mean you could still choose not to eat I guess....

PDE5 Inhibitors2 votes

Not eating vs. not being a complete waste of breath

Perfectly valid comparison.

Drive By Max5 votes

Here's why they can take your money, and then ban you, because by making an account, you have to accept their terms and conditions. Those terms, include the summoner's code, which basically says don't be a dick or you might get banned. The balance isn't terrible, honestly juggernauts aren't that big of a problem, although they are strong, but so are lots of things.

And how else would you punish someone? Let them play the game and ruin it for players as well? If you're toxic, don't play a pvp game. It isn't fun for anyone involved.

zaxxaa1 votes

Ethical right.

SmokedAlmonds7 votes

{quoted}

Ethical right.

Is breaking the terms you agreed to ethical?

zaxxaa2 votes

Have you not ever in your entire league carreer written a single angry word ?

Drive By Max3 votes

{quoted}

Have you not ever in your entire league carreer written a single angry word ?

Writing a single angry word isn't wrong, being as cancerous as you have been in this forum post is.

{quoted}

Responding to people writing toxic shiit to you is not ethically wrong. In fact, to let it pass, would be more ethically wrong.

No, letting it pass would be acting like a grown-up. Mute them and move on instead of being a toxic asshole right back. Two wrongs do not make a right.

{quoted}

"The fact you clicked a button confirming your agreement with their policies pretty much takes care of that. When you sign up for the game (and every single patch they release), you are required to click "I Accept" on two documents; these documents, the EULA and the ToU, fully outline Riot's policies and absolve them from any legal or ethical consequences."

It absolves them legally, but...

No, it doesnt absolve them of a single ethical fragment of perma banning an account.

It's not unethical, you're basically saying that a police officer arresting a murderer is being unethical because the police officer isn't allowing him to kill. By being a toxic player, you're being that murderer, you deserve to be punished for that shit, it's no fun for any party involved.

zaxxaa1 votes

Jesus christ you are so full of shit i cant bring my self to take you seriously.

Oh btw, letting things pass, doenst automatically make it "grown up". Take that shitty attitude somewhere else.

"It's not unethical, you're basically saying that a police officer arresting a murderer is being unethical because the police officer isn't allowing him to kill. By being a toxic player, you're being that murderer, you deserve to be punished for that shit, it's no fun for any party involved."

Like wtf ?!?! HAHAHHAHAHAHA XDDD This is the single dumbest reponse ive ever seen, congratulations.

Your post reeks of irony and hypocrisy. as well as the stench of flawed and dumb argumentation, I will not waste another breath on you.

Chaotic Sage2 votes

How is his comparison to a police officer arresting a murderer dumb? It's a sound comparison when you look at it objectively. By being a citizen in the United States you agree to a certain social contract with the government to abide by the laws put forth by them. If you break said laws, you are liable to get arrested. The same goes to the terms of service put forth by Riot Games that you agree to. If you break them then you are liable to be banned at their discretion. This comparison seems pretty sound to me, please tell me how is this "dumb?" Additionally I'd like to know how does it reek of irony or hypocrisy to you? I'm curious as to how you came to those words here?

Drive By Max3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chaotic Sage,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=nwzbU53H,comment-id=0003000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-28T19:37:36.526+0000)

How is his comparison to a police officer arresting a murderer dumb? It's a sound comparison when you look at it objectively. By being a citizen in the United States you agree to a certain social contract with the government to abide by the laws put forth by them. If you break said laws, you are liable to get arrested. The same goes to the terms of service put forth by Riot Games that you agree to. If you break them then you are liable to be banned at their discretion. This comparison seems pretty sound to me, please tell me how is this "dumb?" Additionally I'd like to know how does it reek of irony or hypocrisy to you? I'm curious as to how you came to those words here?

I was going to ask the same thing. Honestly, this guy is just a piece of work.

zaxxaa2 votes

I didnt say his comparison is dumb. Im saying that him saying that Im saying anything remotely close to what he stated is dumb. Isnt there a saying in America for this ? "Putting words in another persons mouth.." ..right ?

Chaotic Sage2 votes

"Like wtf ?!?! HAHAHHAHAHAHA XDDD This is the single dumbest reponse ive ever seen, congratulations" Didn't bother correcting the spelling but I'm pretty sure that's calling his entire post dumb, which includes his comparison.

zaxxaa1 votes

I quoted the part i was responding to with that comment, does everything need to be spoon fed to you ? lol.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

That sentence makes no sense...regardless of that you're still technically harassing him, telling him a perfectly good comparison is dumb. You also had a couple sentences that actually just made no sense or lacked context. Also if the text of his you quoted was what you were referencing then your sentence just reinforces that you were calling the comparison dumb... Sorry, but it's hard to follow English as bad as yours.

zaxxaa1 votes

Ive already explained it multiple times, its quite clear actually. This reminds me of that one time one of my class mates came home from studying a year in America and told us a story. Of how he graduated at top 5 in English-class, in an american class.

Kinda funny. Maybe its your English thats bad, not mine.

There is no one forbidding you from using your brain on your own either, maybe try that once.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

It's only quite clear to your broken version of English. Congrats, you have a single intelligent friend, good for you, shame it didn't help your English. You just keep telling yourself that your English is passable if that lets you sleep at night. I know mine is close to flawless. I mean, I've been using my brain this whole time, I think maybe you should use yours, unless you have been this whole time...in which case I'm so sorry that this is the result.

OcHfq3Jnyg1 votes

You're a little bitch AND you're just as toxic as the person you're preaching to? Shit.

zaxxaa2 votes

And i find it funny when Americans complain about spelling to a non native speaker. Can you spell my language correctly ? Can you spell ANY language other than english correctly ? No you cant, because you are American.

Linthe2 votes

{quoted} No you cant, because you are American.

So NO American is bilingual. LOL. Stay salty EU!

zaxxaa2 votes

Well Canada is a great country in many ways, USA isnt. :)

"Stay salty EU!"

I took one look at your account and all the salt simply faded away. xD

Linthe1 votes

{quoted}

Well Canada is a great country in many ways, USA isnt. :)

"Stay salty EU!"

I took one look at your account and all the salt simply faded away. xD

Awesome so you are no salty that you are perma banned. Always glad to be of help. :)

zaxxaa1 votes

Yes, so keep on wasting, money as well as your life. Cause that what this game is for.

If i ever want to i can make a new account and pass you in two weeks anyway. :D

Stay salty.

Linthe2 votes

{quoted}

If i ever want to i can make a new account and pass you in two weeks anyway. :D

Perhaps you could.... IF you could unbanned for two weeks. Can you do THAT??

Chaotic Sage1 votes

I mean, take a look at the board your posting on. See where it says NA? Yea, that stands for North America. So, yea, we get to complain about your poor grasp on the language if we choose to as you're posting on the NA boards. If I was posting in whatever language you speak (no, I don't care which one it is) I would run it past one of my friends that speaks whatever language it is first and even then it'd have to be incredibly important for me to spend time on your boards. If you want to complain this badly, please proceed back to the EUW boards. Also, no, I can't speak another language, but I don't plan to live in another country in any foreseeable future, thus it's of no consequence to me.

zaxxaa2 votes

He called me cancerous. And is trying to lecture me about toxic behavior. Its as clear as hypocrisy gets.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

That's not hypocrisy though. That's just a statement based on assumption that you got banned due to toxicity, which is a very fair assumption in this case. I'm pretty sure if we polled people they would agree that the assumption is sound that you were a cancerous player to be permanently banned. Also he wasn't even talking about your game behavior, which I'm just now realizing, just your forum post, where all of your responses to anyone trying to say anything have been nothing short of verbally abusive (a.k.a. cancerous in the generally accepted term). The lecture on toxic behavior is also just that, a lecture or series of statements about how toxic behavior works and is viewed and dealt with by Riot.

zaxxaa1 votes

He explicitly stated id been cancerous on "these boards".

Excuses excuses.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Excuses excuses doesn't apply here. You're being cancerous on the boards by posting a complaint thread rather than an intelligent discussion thread. This should have been sent in as a help and support ticket complaining to Riot directly rather than flaming them on the boards. Also all throughout this thread you're guilty of harassment, verbal abuse and really just being a mean spirited person.

lofi n chillhop1 votes

whether someone is toxic or not should not change whether or not it's appropriate to be toxic towards them.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

Really? You think I'm being toxic? Please, elaborate on this.

lofi n chillhop1 votes

I am disagreeing with your statement that zax being called cancerous isn't hypocritical, because it is. zax is behaving in a toxic way, but to call zax by insults is different than explaining which of their behavior is toxic.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

The thing is the person who originally called him cancerous didn't do it with insults. Go all the way up and read it and then Zax's responses and how he belittled him at every turn.

SmokedAlmonds3 votes

{quoted}

Have you not ever in your entire league carreer written a single angry word ?

I've said plenty of angry words. But obviously I have stayed with in acceptable bounds as I have never received so much as a warning. But that doesn't have anything to do with this.

You dodged the question. Is breaking the terms you agreed to unethical?

zaxxaa2 votes

I didnt dodge it, i had to ask you that question to prove a point.

So here is the point, youve said angry words, ive said angry words, so ive not broken the terms anymore than you have. Cause riots current philosphy is that all manner of toxic shall be punished equally, which is dumb as fuck.

As for if it is ethical or not , thats to narrow a question to answer, i dont feel like ive overstepped my bounds by defending myself.

SmokedAlmonds5 votes

{quoted}

I didnt dodge it, i had to ask you that question to prove a point.

So here is the point, youve said angry words, ive said angry words, so ive not broken the terms anymore than you have. Cause riots current philosphy is that all manner of toxic shall be punished equally, which is dumb as fuck.

As for if it is ethical or not , thats to narrow a question to answer, i dont feel like ive overstepped my bounds by defending myself.

We obviously have not behaved equally if you have been punished and I have never been warned. All manors of toxicity can get you punished, but they understand that people are going to step over the line. It is not about never doing anything wrong. It is about how often you cross the line and how far past it you go. The standard is not "say one thing wrong" and never has been. The system is much more lenient than people make it out to be, their behavior is just worse than they think. If I had been punished or warned for those times I wouldn't be complaining about it anyway.

You do not get to decide what is overstepping the bounds.

zaxxaa1 votes

Too bad you cannot know that for sure. I have never said or done anything that deserves a permanent ban, and thats why ill treat them as the thieves they are if i ever meet them.

SmokedAlmonds4 votes

{quoted}

Too bad you cannot know that for sure. I have never said or done anything that deserves a permanent ban, and thats why ill treat them as the thieves they are if i ever meet them.

I mean I guess I dont know for sure. You didn't post your reform card so I haven't seen any logs but I know that mistakes are rare so just being punished means there is a high level of certainty that it was deserved. Your only real disputes with it seem to be that you disagree that what you were punished for but disagreeing with the rules doesn't make them not apply.

I don't know why people seem to think perma bans are only for the worst offenses. That is incomplete. Anything that would warrant even a 1 game chat restriction is unacceptable behavior. Perma bans are also for people who continually repeat minor offenses. If someone doesn't change their unacceptable behavior after being repeatedly punished for it then there stops being any reason to think they will in the future. So you remove them.

zaxxaa1 votes

And thats why this system is completely retarded.

Some dude can basically rape a helpless woman, but you stole some bread 3 times, so you get the same punishment. Disgusting logic, anyone who supports this logic, i hope real life punches you in the face with it some day.

And btw i did post my report card(in this very thread), but riot removed it and all discussion attached to it. Most likely cause they realized how fucking insane this punishment was compared to my transgression.

"Oh shit, we cant let people see this." Rito plz.

SmokedAlmonds3 votes

{quoted}

And thats why this system is completely retarded.

Some dude can basically rape a helpless woman, but you stole some bread 3 times, so you get the same punishment. Disgusting logic, anyone who supports this logic, i hope real life punches you in the face with it some day.

Those are not at all comparable situations at all.

We are talking about different degrees of the same offense. Its not rape and petty theft. It is a guy who robbed 3 banks and a guy who robbed 15 gas stations.

zaxxaa1 votes

Using your own argument. You cant say threatening people outright is the same offense as saying some dude is bad.

Considering there are people threatening to rape your family in this game everyday, all the more proof my analogy is perfect. xD

I get banned for saying some dude is a bad player, same as some dude threatening to rape your family. A small crime shoudlnt be punished at the same lvl as a small crime. As i said, retarded system.

SmokedAlmonds2 votes

{quoted}

Using your own argument. You cant say threatening people outright is the same offense as saying some dude is bad.

Considering there are people threatening to rape your family in this game everyday, all the more proof my analogy is perfect. xD

I get banned for saying some dude is a bad player, same as some dude threatening to rape your family. A small crime shoudlnt be punished at the same lvl as a small crime. As i said, retarded system.

Because the threats are empty so there is nothing to take seriously about it as a threat. It is just a vessel for a verbal attack.

It doesn't matter anyway when both behaviors are unacceptable. Maybe a better analogy would be 1 guy brutally murders 3 people and another quickly executes 15, both get the death penalty.

SmokedAlmonds4 votes

{quoted}

So in other words, raging like a manic and expressing feelings/stating a fact is the same to you?

Uhm, good luck in life bro. Youre gonna need it.

The guy wishing death on people is expressing his feelings. He is just using more extreme words. Again, different degree of the same offense. People don't want to deal with either and both are considered unacceptable. So it doesn't matter how much worse one is than the other. It takes less of the severe incidents to get the same punishment so its not like they are actually treated the same anyway.

As for "stating facts" there are many ways to do that in ways that aren't tearing down players and getting yourself punished.

I am doing just fine in life. Thanks for the concern though.

Chaotic Sage1 votes

That is a rather disproportionate comparison in my opinion but lets expand on it. So a person committed the felony of Rape. They're proven guilty and thrown in prison for anywhere from 10-20+ years depending on the circumstances (opinions on these punishment levels will vary, I think Rape should be 20 year minimum regardless of circumstance for instance). Stealing a single loaf bread is a severely minor offense and generally after a third time you'll still get a slap on the wrist and maybe a little prison time after the third offense. A closer comparison may be armed robbery and murder, since comparing to rape is never a good idea. If that is the case then the in game equivalent would be comparison someone verbally abusing another person or team for the entirety of a game, every game for any given arbitrary number of games. Then compared to someone cursing at a single person for a few games in a row. One is going to get a permanent banned, the other may be chat restricted at worst.

zaxxaa1 votes

Exactly. You just proved my point.

I dont see what is toxic about me stating that yi is a noob champ. And why i get perma banned for that when there are people threatening with rape all day is beyond me.

lofi n chillhop1 votes

when you tell a yi player yi is for noobs, you call them a noob. it's the same insult. if you do not understand that, that is one of the reasons you've been chat banned....

I guess tho the real takeaway yous should get from your being punished, is not that your behavior is at contrast with the system, but instead that your behavior is in contrast from what other people expect you to behave. since it is the community that submits the reports, and the system that enacts the punishment. if the system is punishing you, it is because the community regularly felt your behavior was incorrect.

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