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The Reason You're Stuck In Bronze/Silver.

Prophet Boo··5 votes·2,767 views

I've been wanting to make a thread that relates to this for a long time but I just couldn't find a way to explain this without hurting anyone's feelings. Unfortunately, I still can't.. But this topic needs to be addressed regardless of whether people take it the wrong way or not. So, if you really want to learn why you're stuck in bronze/silver, continue reading. What is elo hell? I'm sure you already think you know the answer to this question. Well, unfortunately you don't because if you did, you wouldn't be here right now. Elo hell is a term that is used to describe people who are stuck in bronze/silver divisions and can't get out because of various reasons. Those reasons usually involve having crappy teammates or having feeders/afks/trolls/DC's on your team. But if you observe those reasons carefully, you will notice that none of them are about the player giving them. You never hear a person say, "I apologize for my performance this game. Unfortunately, this is one of my off games and I made various mistake throughout the duration." Why is this? Well, it's because the same people that give these excuses on why they did bad are the same people who believe in elo hell. Elo hell is a giant excuse for someone who can't carry a team to victory. If everyone knew how to properly get their team in check and carry them without raging and being salty, then elo hell would not exist. Stop blaming others for your mistakes. Yes, sometimes you will get paired with teammates that are not as good as you are. But, until you see that it is your responsibility to help them out and coach them to victory, YOU WILL LOSE. Do not tell them that they are bad and that they should uninstall because that just makes you worse than them. You deserve to be in "Elo Hell". Why is it so hard to for people to understand that the mistakes they made are their fault? If only you could just step back and see that you are in control of what happens to you... You would realize that blaming others is pointless and can get you in trouble. Be responsible for yourself and the team.

I am going to leave you 10 tips for you salty summoners that blame others for your mistakes. 1. No matter how angry you are, do not take it out on your team. 2. Admit that you messed up and got yourself killed. 3. If you are angry at your team then use the mute button and avoid raging in chat. 4. Don't expect to win every game. 5. Carry your team. Don't rely on anyone else to do your part. 6. Don't expect things from your team. 7. Look back at your performance post game and observe some mistakes that you have made. 8. Admit that you need improvement. 9. If you are only playing league to win then do not play ranked. 10. Have fun.

I hope this thread helped some of summoners cleanse you of the of the salty behavior toward your team and toward yourself. Please don't make even more excuses after reading this because no one wants to see that. Only you can get you out of "elo hell". Please bump this so more people can understand why they are the problem. Thanks

-JahovahBurrito

34 Comments

Morvrannis6 votes

I don't believe in ELO Hell because, mathematically, if you are good enough and play enough games, it will work out that you will rise in the ranks.

Yes, you will get games where someone rages/AFKs/quits, but, statistically, so will the other team. Given that you are a constant in this match-up, you should rise if you are skilled enough.

With that all said, I do disagree with you on one point:

But, until you see that it is your responsibility to help them out and coach them to victory, YOU WILL LOSE.

This, unfortunately, is false. You only have the chat to work with, and psychological studies show that, when communication is done through text-only (emails, text, chat, whatever), particularly in a emotional environment (like a LOL game), people misread what you are saying 90% of the time. That means, even if you think you are being helpful by saying: "Hey, make sure you get wards up in your tri-bush and at the blue buff entrance so you don't die next time" you'll often get a response of, "STFU a**hole. Don't tell me what to do." And then...things go downhill from there.

I believe it's every player's responsibility not to be toxic. To teach others - might actually hurt your game more than help.

Crazycatperson1 votes

A. Mathematically means that you prove your point using facts/ numbers. B. Psychological study =/= Something you pulled out of your ass.

Edrissam2 votes

A. His post was actually helpful. B. Yours wasn't.

MrBuffington5 votes

I'm in silver currently, and I've actually found most silver players behave themselves (especially compared to bronze). You'll occasionally get someone who rages, but in my experience it's often on the other team (I like to think I create a positive environment; being competent in most roles also helps me not get yelled at). I'm confused about your 9th point; sure, I mostly play ranked to get better at the game, but I'm ultimately trying to win; it's not the only reason, but it's pretty important on my list.

Worgslarg3 votes

Carry your team. Don't rely on anyone else to do your part.

This is the only part i disagree with. While anyone can easily lose the game, it takes more than one person doing well to win it.

Learning to recognize that there was nothing you could have dont, is almost as important as learning to recognize that a bad thing was your fault.

A toplaner( without tp) can hardly help or carry a feeding botlane, but you can make sure that you don't feed yourself. If you're a jungler or mid, you need to make early roams to help losing lanes, because your accomplishments mean nothing if theirs dont either.

With that said, keeping a positive attitude and learning from your own mistakes is the best way to make sure you dont lose the game for 4 other players.

Hoi Im Temmo2 votes

I agree - and if my team is such that they NEED a single person to step in and carry them, then isn't that elo hell?

Regardless: as a top lane main (specifically mundo) I have found the best way to carry a feeding bot is to trade lanes. there is no way they cant win a 2v1, and most top tanks are fine 1v2.

Prophet Boo4 votes

No, it wouldn't be considered elo hell. It would just mean that they are being outplayed. And it's your responsibility to help your team not get in those situations. But that is a good strategy. Also, junglers aren't the only people who should be ganking. Mid should give ganks when they have the opportunities.

TEAM of ZOMBIES1 votes

...Also, junglers aren't the only people who should be ganking. Mid should give ganks when they have the opportunities.

Yes!

Hoi Im Temmo1 votes

Definitely agree on mid ganks

Prophet Boo1 votes

Good advice :)

ArmySquirrel6 votes

No, he's right, you need to carry every game, but you are also right in that it takes more than that to win, which brings us to 4. Don't expect to win every game. Even if you do carry, you won't win every game, but as long as you are constantly in that position and don't play a limp noodle, you'll do well. I mean what's the alternative? Sitting back and hoping someone else carries?

MrBuffington1 votes

I think it should be noted that there's more to carrying a game than going 41/7 on Akali; You can carry a game by making good calls and effectively working for objectives. Kills don't win games; Objectives do.

Poopsacky1 votes

I think it should be noted that there's more to carrying a game than going 41/7 on Akali; You can carry a game by making good calls and effectively working for objectives. Kills don't win games; Objectives do.

Agreed. But u can do that all u want 4v5 in rank is just not possible. Let alone a 1v5. Most teams play meta and its just bs. I myself prefer the odd champs but that's what makes me fail. These meta champs make the game kind of suk.

Poopsacky3 votes

It is one thing to lose a game when you know everyone tries. It is another when someone plays and just outright throws cause of simple stupid circumstances. They instantly throw fits. Quits and feed. I don't care how hard you play, if your team is deliberately doing it, it is just annoying and immature. I fail, I feed, but its never intentional. I maybe in a bad mood cause we are losing, but never will I intentionally lose a game. And the ratio between getting a bad team vs a good team is pretty bad. I would say 8 out of 10 games.

Skias1 votes

Yeah, I agree. The main argument assumes that everyone in the game is trying. Chances are pretty high that someone in your 5 of the 10 people playing are going to rage and derail.

Alexiterio3 votes

Are you kidding me? I am a highly-honored, never-raging player who admits his mistakes and communicates freely... and I am stuck in Bronze hell because of the terrible human beings on my assigned teams. Every game, at least one rager, AFK or outright troll who thinks it's fun to ruin a game.

SnugglyBunnies1 votes

It's ok, OP is in Bronze 3 also.

Dan Dragonsword2 votes

Face It guys. Wether you are gold, challenger, or bronze. The elo system was developed for COMPETITIVE 1VS1 CHESS MACTHES , emphasize on 1vs1. you have 4 other players that you have to count on to do as good as you or at least not feed. in bronze/silver people don't know when to quit, they do bad in lane but they continue to feed 10 kills and continue and so on. When you are in diamond people lose lanes, but they don't continue to feed and feed because they are smarter than that, I think this is the main reason elo hell really exists.

One thing is for sure this system will never truly reveal your actual rank, because it's not you who decide the game it's also the other players. think of it like this: If 1 diamond player played against 5 silver players who would win? Now if 1 silver player went up against 5 other silver players, who would win then? the fact of the matter is both of these scenarios can actually happen, which is pretty sad.

MarhsallLee674 votes

Mad 'cos bad.

Skias1 votes

Hes right. Its inherently flawed to base a skill score on someone that is really dependant on 4 other people. Only 20% of what you do will effect your score. The other 80% is depenant on if you got the good guy teammate, the lagger, the racist bigot or the quitter.

The odds suck.

I cant begin to understand why personal ranking wouldnt be based on a mix of kdr, objectives complete and finally a boost if you are the victor.

MarhsallLee671 votes

I cant begin to understand why personal ranking wouldnt be based on a mix of kdr, objectives complete and finally a boost if you are the victor.

Because this is a team game. You can go 100/0/0, but if you can't coordinate with your team, you're not going to get anywhere.

You also won't get anywhere so long as you have the mentality that the majority of the fault lies within your teammates rather than yourself. You said it yourself- you can't control the teammates you get, so why bother? Just focus on what YOU are doing wrong and what YOU can do better. If they want to troll and flame, let them. In the long run, if you are able to consistently improve your skills, that one game where that one guy fed that one time isn't going to mean anything.

Hell, you don't even need to be good to climb. Ranked is more psychological than anything. So long as you are able to keep (or at least fake) a positive attitude and are able to effectively communicate with your team, you can get to gold, plat, or even diamond by not being much more than an average player: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz7TWpRXyRY

Skias1 votes

Like I said, any metric to score someone's personal abilities based on others is inherently flawed. Not to mention the Elo system was designed by a man named Arpad Elo for chess, a 1v1 game, then applied to a 5v5 game. It was a poor metric for team based games then and still is. The idea that is psychological could pertain to having to suffer through repeated matches with toxic people until you just happen to get lucky enough to rise.

Based on the fact that your teammates are completely random, it is very close to just being like rolling dice. You just have to roll the right numbers enough times in a row. There is some credence to rising high enough to where folks do less ridiculous things like taking smite mid on morgana because of spellvamp >.> (Yeah, that was my mid at one point.)

I 100% agree that you don't need to be good to climb. You can be awful. You do need to be lucky though. Without getting the right people, you will not climb.

PaladinNeph1 votes

I need to note that LoL no longer uses the Elo system. with that out of the way...

If 1 diamond player played against 5 silver players who would win?

the diamond player would win (most of the time, accidents happen). otherwise, he doesn't deserve to be gold, much less diamond

Now if 1 silver player went up against 5 other silver players, who would win then?

he would lose (most of the time, accidents happen) if he won most of the time, he deserves to be gold.

the fact of the matter is both of these scenarios can actually happen, which is pretty sad.

not only can they happen, they're supposed to! that's what your challenger series is- they deliberately place you with a weaker team to see if you can win anyway.

...and that's what gives rise to this whole Elo hell Mythos.

you're winning! you're placed with players as good as you again and again, and you're winning. ...and then you hit your challenger series, and suddenly, your teammates wear their thornmail inside out (if you know what I mean)

and you shout to the Random Number Gods "woe is me, that I'm burdened with this crappy team!" when in reality, that's what's supposed to happen

ThokPwnage2 votes

The only reason I'm in silver is I don't have enough time, or I use too much of my time playing team builder, normal games and games besides LoL. I'm on an overall upward trend, but considering I've only gone from bronze 4 to silver 4 I probably won't be in gold before the end of the season. I hate when people think someone's league is directly related to their skill, because even if you ignore bad luck/troll teammate arguments, there's still the fact that someone who has played less than a hundred games of ranked couldn't get very far even if they had over 80% win rate, but someone who plays thousands of games could be in challenger with only 51% win rate. Also, while toxic players should eventually cancel out because there's an equal chance for both teams to get them, they can make a difference if you haven't played enough games for that to happen yet. I'm not saying I should be in a higher league just because I have a higher mmr than average for my league, but I do think we should see league ranks for what they are: the level of commitment and time dedication a player has to keep ranking up, not a measurement of how well they play in any one game. Oh and it would also help if the launcher opened the client instead of the "play" button just closing it. Is anyone else still having that problem?

edit: nvm about the last part, it's working now. apparently my launcher didn't think changing gnar's animations on the login screen was enough of an update to bother installing, but the login screen without it can't open because it's no longer in use, so I had to remove some files to force it to update.

Pyrobob42 votes

Do you not see the flaw in your logic of telling players that them being bad is their own fault, but then also telling them to learn how to carry the game by coaching their teammates? It's like saying that somehow it is also your fault that your teammates are bad. Which implies that them being bad isn't just their own fault, but yours/the rest of their teams, as well. Does that make sense?

It's pretty well agreed upon that 1 person cant just go 35/4 to win the game. To really carry means to direct and inspire your whole team to victory. The problem lies with something you mentioned yourself: There is no personal accountability, especially in lower ranks. No one is willing to admit their own flaws. More importantly this means very few people are willing to accept advice on what they should do differently. Even the most amiable teacher will be ignored sometimes. In Bronze and Silver, "sometimes" is pretty damn often. Trolls and AFK/DC players don't listen to their teammates, after all.

I'm going to go at this from another angle.

Can you consider, just for a second, that maybe people like you got lucky enough - thats right I said lucky - to not be teamed up with bad players? Are you really so arrogant to assert that your personal skill and leadership alone is what allowed you to escape the lower ranks? Is it not possible that elo hell exists, and you just managed to avoid it?

I don't know the numbers, but I'd be willing to bet that there are more trolls in bronze and silver than there are players in diamond and plat. Statistically speaking, the chances that someone encounters such toxic players in a majority of their matches is, honestly, probably fairly high.

Sure, some people who cry about elo hell aren't really in it. They really are just bad at the game. But to listen to people like you, elo hell isn't even something that exists. Certainly it can, and does - the game is inherently random, so it technically has to.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue with your advice. I'm certain there are some people out there who could stand to learn a thing or two from your post. At the same time, it would be nice if people on your side of the fence could acknowledge that sometimes it just isn't enough to "stop being trash" and "get good".

Dan Dragonsword2 votes

Everyone says it's all about carrying your teammates. So you carry your teammates, get a huge lead, then we do a mistake and we lose a team fight, and one of your teammates calls surrender and DC's right after. human beings are ignorant some more than others. Carrying just ins't enough, you can't base a 5 vs 5 on weather you win or lose.

Skias1 votes

I agree. The popular opinion is teach your teammates who generally rage at advice and trying to teach the league community is folly. I would say the best thing to do is pray to the gods of random that you get lucky and speak to no one. Less chance of someone going into a rage and afk. So at least then, feeding and d/cs is all you have to fight against. Oh, then the enemy team finally.

SnugglyBunnies2 votes

I'm an elo atheist. Elathiest...

Gonna make a thread called "So you think you're pro enough to tell people why they are stuck in Bronze/Silver"

Shrikesnest2 votes

This is a well-meaning but ultimately misguided post, I think. Disclaimer: I don't play ranked by choice, so if you're going to discount what someone says based on their rank, you're probably better off just not reading this reply.

This is a team-based game. Telling people that they need to carry every game solely on their shoulders and "coach" their team to victory will not help, because it's not true and, more importantly, it causes people to put all of the pressure for a loss on themselves and (important bit following) take all of the credit for their own victories. People get carried way more often than they carry (it's simple statistics,) but this attitude tells them to take all of the credit when that happens.

Basically the problem with this is that it's bootstrappy nonsense. Sometimes you lose games and it's out of your control. Sometimes you win games and it's out of your control. A more useful attitude is accepting that that's going to happen. A more useful skill than attempting to "coach" teams to victory is to focus on an objective understanding of what you could have done better and what was out of your hands, without simply making excuses. That "coaching" advice in particular is especially wrongheaded. The idea that you're some super-pro hotshot who can play everyone's position and role better than they can works against the real humility that leads to good judgment of one's own performance.

Lastly, sometimes it's important to understand that not every player is capable of making it to platinum or diamond. It's okay, there's no shame in it. This is a video game. Achieving a high rank in it is completely meaningless, and won't matter to you in ten years at all. It's not going to get you respect, it's not going to teach you any skills or lessons that are applicable elsewhere in life, and it's not going to attract a significant other. It's a pleasurable waste of time, and being better at it than someone else shouldn't be a source of pride, no more than you should feel awesome for being the world champion of flicking cards into a hat. Some people have better reflexes than you, or more time in the day to practice, or a better head for keeping track of objectives and positioning. They are going to be ranked higher than you. That's okay. It's life, and there's way worse things to be bad at.

Skias1 votes

It's just sad that the metric you are scored with is mostly based upon factors you don't control. I say it is flawed.

TEAM of ZOMBIES1 votes
  1. DBAD
  2. ????
  3. (I think you know step 3)
Wasabo1 votes

elo hell no exist

thoughtshewas181 votes

I just got to Gold and now I'm stuck in Gold V :P I'm pretty bad Horibble too!

1 800 FEEDING1 votes

Roaming is huge if you're ahead and your teamates are behind. I've been really fortunate to get really good teams in my placements so far (4-1, ~1360 team mmr last game). In normals I do well individually but lose since I continue to farm my lane (main adc) while my other lanes are getting rekt.

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